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Baza Prime really needs something added.


(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx
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I created a post around six months ago noting that when Ivara was inevitably primed, she would come with a Baza prime. I made suggestions then on what i thought would actually be a good way to go about priming this weapon. Unfortunately none of it happened. 

But what we actually got as far as baza prime goes is.......... Kinda bad, especially for an MR10 assault rifle.

What we actually got. Irrelevant buff to crit chance and status chance. Let me put that again in bold italics. Irrelevant. Longer range, on a weapon that isn't going to be used outside of the range a normal baza would be used because there are vastly better weapons at long range and mostly better weapons short range. Faster reload speed which you kinda need because you'll probably reload after every kill. 

I realize I will not be getting what "I" wanted, which is fine, duh. Nobody around here ever gets specifically what they want and that's life. But the weapon needs a buff.

Maybe either add innate punch through  or add a perk where you get large buff to status and crit chance for a short period after initial trigger pull, like first 5 rounds after trigger pull will receive a bonus 15 or 20% to status and crit chance, which would encourage players to burst their fire instead of laying down on the trigger. 

I mean. Sure.

The Baza Prime is a great weapon.

As long as you want to go out of the way to build a shinier version of a gun that the regular version costs very few resources to build and otherwise is basically just as good. 

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hace 8 minutos, (PS4)Black-Cat-Jinx dijo:

a shinier version of a gun

But that is what primes are all about! I understand if you want the Baza itself to have a buff (I don't think so), but buffing Baza Prime only is really really unnecessary.

Primes are the same, but a bit better and with gold.

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47 minutes ago, BasKy said:

But that is what primes are all about! I understand if you want the Baza itself to have a buff (I don't think so), but buffing Baza Prime only is really really unnecessary.

Primes are the same, but a bit better and with gold.

Tell that to most of the primes people actually use. The Baza is an okay gun. Not a great gun. Not a game changing gun. A gun that you can get through anything in the star chart with and sometimes is useful on spy sorties. Typically "priming" a weapon means you've made it good enough that you can use it in high level end game content. Lex prime, Vasto prime. Tiberon prime. Akbolto prime... All of these are variants of a weapon that can easily get you through the entire "mission" experience of the game but you need the primed versions if you want to be able to deal with anything much over level 90.

The Baza is a decent gun. Assuming you're not competent with a bow. It needs something. Punch through is atleast something. 

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1 hour ago, (PS4)Black-Cat-Jinx said:

Tell that to most of the primes people actually use. The Baza is an okay gun. Not a great gun. Not a game changing gun. A gun that you can get through anything in the star chart with and sometimes is useful on spy sorties. Typically "priming" a weapon means you've made it good enough that you can use it in high level end game content. Lex prime, Vasto prime. Tiberon prime. Akbolto prime... All of these are variants of a weapon that can easily get you through the entire "mission" experience of the game but you need the primed versions if you want to be able to deal with anything much over level 90.

The Baza is a decent gun. Assuming you're not competent with a bow. It needs something. Punch through is atleast something. 

It still needs to be balanced compared to other weapons - even if it's primed. We will need a Soma Prime buff long before we see anything with Baza Prime.

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5 hours ago, BasKy said:

But that is what primes are all about! I understand if you want the Baza itself to have a buff (I don't think so), but buffing Baza Prime only is really really unnecessary.

Primes are the same, but a bit better and with gold.

Baza Prime is literally barely better than normal Baza.

Actually that’s been the trend with a lot of prime weapons lately. Their stat increases are so insignificant you start to wonder what’s the point of even getting them.

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3 hours ago, Zectico said:

It still needs to be balanced compared to other weapons - even if it's primed. We will need a Soma Prime buff long before we see anything with Baza Prime.

No what we need is for DE to use a balance philosophy that aims for the head so that when they fall short you still get a torso shot. Instead they aim for the groin and if they fall short it lands between the ankles. 

I will grant you that a weapon i have failed to get yet probably needs a buff... I can't say from experience it doesn't so if you say so i agree. How does that justify releasing a brand new weapon in a state like this? If they had released it as a secondary weapon sure it would be great, among other reasons because Ivara could have switched to it from her Artemis bow without having to desummon the bow, which would have made an incredible amount of sense for how Ivara is played. As it exists now they might as well have just sold a Baza deluxe skin. 

 

5 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Baza Prime is literally barely better than normal Baza.

Actually that’s been the trend with a lot of prime weapons lately. Their stat increases are so insignificant you start to wonder what’s the point of even getting them.

^^^^^ This. 

I admit i like the Aksomati prime. Especially with eject magazine, i can combine it with ferrox for crowd control and then alternate between melee and secondary without ever having to reload and it's a really solid weapon even without any "gimmicks" but the Baza is just... a prettier baza. I can only assume they released it intending to buff it eventually after some future adjustment they're making to scaling and didn't want to have to re-balance it later.... which is a really lame idea, if they have to nerf it later fine but let people have fun with it when it just hits the game. 

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hace 34 minutos, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 dijo:

Baza Prime is literally barely better than normal Baza.

What's wrong with that? Primes have always been a glorified golden version of a gun. It's still Baza, but primed.

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39 minutes ago, BasKy said:

What's wrong with that? Primes have always been a glorified golden version of a gun. It's still Baza, but primed.

Prime weapons used to be more than just “Glorified golden versions of a weapon”. They’ve always been significantly stronger versions of their normal variants. Up until recently where every Prime weapon won’t even go past 5% increases to crit or status and the damage is either completely untouched or barely increased. 
If we’re just going to get weapons with stat boosts so minuscule they don’t matter then there’s no point in putting in the time and effort to get them when they’re barely worth using over the normal version we already put investment into.

So now I ask you. Do you have anything more to contribute to this discussion? Or are you just going to repeat “But prime weapons are just gloried gilded versions of normal weapons” again?

Edited by (XB1)GearsMatrix301
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hace 3 minutos, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 dijo:

Prime weapons used to be more than just “Glorified golden versions of a weapon”. They’re always been significantly stronger versions of their normal variants. Up until recently where every Prime weapon won’t even go past 5% increases to crit or status and the damage is either completely untouched or barely increased. 
If we’re just going to get weapons with stat boosts so minuscule they don’t matter then there’s no point in putting in the time and effort to get them when they’re barely worth using over the normal version we already put investment into.

So now I ask you. Do you have anything more to contribute to this discussion? Or are you just going to repeat “But prime weapons are just gloried gilded versions of normal weapons” again?

Lol that was my opinion you don't need to get all angery with me.
I said that twice, because I've been told twice that Baza Prime is too similar to Baza. If you wanted a different response you should've said something else.

Even if old weapons got better buffs (didn't check) they are still weaker than the newer ones. I have seen plenty primed Stradavar, Akstiletto, Tigris, Tiberon, but never Akbronco, Dakra or Boltor. Maybe the power gap between old and new weapons is getting too big.

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Soma Prime? Crap.  

Stadavar Prime? Crap (and they nerfed its riven roght as the prime release too so it was a double slap)  

Kuva Karak? Crap.  

And now Baza Prime... also crap.  

And of course things like the Boltor Prime and Braton Prime are hopelessly outdated.  

See if you guys notice a trend with DE and automatic, single target rifle.  

Idk what cause DE to hates automatic rifle so much. Were they really that bad in the past? My opinion is: these weapons should have the best stat line in the game, specializing in single target damage. Because theres nothing special about them otherwise.  But its the opposite. They range from bad to mediocre at best and struggle to kill late game mobs even with rivens and hunter munition. Some of them might seems good due to having great crit stats, but its all pointless due to their base damage being hilariously low.    

In contrast, guns like the Acceltra, Fulmin and Kuva Kohm have superior damage output, and have some form of AoE.   

And then you have the Rattleguts which is practically the best automatic rifle in the game but still not used as much because it sits in the secondary slot and have to compete with the monsters that is the Catchmoon and the Kuva Brakk.  

So in all honesty, Baza Prime and other automatic rifles dont need gimmicks. They need their base damage significantly improved. Otherwise just give me kit rifle I can finally use Rattleguts togheter with Catchmoon.  

Edited by Bakaguya-sama
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1 hour ago, BasKy said:

Lol that was my opinion you don't need to get all angery with me.
I said that twice, because I've been told twice that Baza Prime is too similar to Baza. If you wanted a different response you should've said something else.

Even if old weapons got better buffs (didn't check) they are still weaker than the newer ones. I have seen plenty primed Stradavar, Akstiletto, Tigris, Tiberon, but never Akbronco, Dakra or Boltor. Maybe the power gap between old and new weapons is getting too big.

................................................................. You never hear about Dakra. 

Dude.

Dakra Prime is one of the most powerful long swords in this game. Possibly THE most powerful given it's riven disposition and the fact that you can't get Skana Prime without being a founder. Boltor prime is also an extremely powerful weapon in comparison to it's non primed variant... Akbronco is kinda one of those it just doesn't feel good to use weapons rather than it being specifically bad.  But Dakra, Dakra prime was a very bad example to give. 

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hace 8 minutos, (PS4)Black-Cat-Jinx dijo:

................................................................. You never hear about Dakra. 

Dude.

Dakra Prime is one of the most powerful long swords in this game. Possibly THE most powerful given it's riven disposition and the fact that you can't get Skana Prime without being a founder. Boltor prime is also an extremely powerful weapon in comparison to it's non primed variant... Akbronco is kinda one of those it just doesn't feel good to use weapons rather than it being specifically bad.  But Dakra, Dakra prime was a very bad example to give. 

Nah I didn't want to give the extreme examples. Those ones are outperformed by the newer ones, and are less popular too (from what I can see, only DE really knows this).

That wasn't the point tho. The point was that, supposedly, old weapons were getting much better buffs. If that was true then why aren't old primed weapons more popular? If it is because new weapons are getting stronger and stronger, then of course the primed buff is getting smaller, it's to prevent power creep. I don't see any prime causing balance problems, those are caused by other off topic things.

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9 hours ago, (PS4)Black-Cat-Jinx said:

What we actually got. Irrelevant buff to crit chance and status chance. Let me put that again in bold italics. Irrelevant. Longer range, on a weapon that isn't going to be used outside of the range a normal baza would be used because there are vastly better weapons at long range and mostly better weapons short range. Faster reload speed which you kinda need because you'll probably reload after every kill.

Not only that, but still eat ammo like popcorn.

I would have thought that given that it's the only rifle with fall-off that the primed version would have slightly worse stats... With no damage fall-off. Don't get me wrong, the Baza is a great weapon... It's just, too accurate (if that makes sense).

It's a weapon with EXTREME accuracy and recoil control... But is the only rifle that sucks at range... Doesn't make sense.

I would thought that if it didn't get damage fall-off removed it would atleast get some kind of gimmick, like a secondary fire that consumes 8 rounds to throw out a shot range flashbang (effect similar to the Zakti)... Instead we get a gun that resets the disposition to 1.0 (could be wrong, can't remember disposition from before) which is another slap to the face of Baza fans (the only ones who'd have a riven anyway). Even worse for the Aksomati, both have a separate disposition (underlines part of the riven problem, but that's something else).

It's just the same niche Baza with adjusted stats. I know things like the Gram and Rubico are basically the same as the non-primed too, but those are weapons that work great in just about any situation (general) while the Baza isn't.

I don't want to be mean, but I'd almost rather not have a primary primed with Ivara than have this.

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4 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Baza Prime is literally barely better than normal Baza.

Actually that’s been the trend with a lot of prime weapons lately. Their stat increases are so insignificant you start to wonder what’s the point of even getting them.

Double effective range is a huge deal.

 

1 hour ago, Bakaguya-sama said:

Were they really that bad in the past?

Yes. Soma was used more than every other gun combined, the catchmoon wished it was as popular.

37 minutes ago, SpringRocker said:

range

 

Lol, no. Try continuals for 1000, Alex.

Now that you're done theory crafting the baza hits like a silent anyobux truck now at double the range and can hit an absolutely absurd CD/CC with a riven. aaand it's not a rifle. It's a submachine gun, as per the guy who made it. Much like the Arca Sisco, it fulfills a very specific niche and that niche is not one shotting enemies at 3000 meters. It has a absurd crit profile, absurd ROF that can go on forever thanks to pexilus and on nonbosses the bleed damage is very very real, and on bosses the armor strip is very very real.

Edited by -Kittens-
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10 minutes ago, -Kittens- said:

Lol, no. Try continuals for 1000, Alex.

Now that you're done theory crafting the baza hits like a silent anyobux truck now at double the range and can hit an absolutely absurd CD/CC with a riven. aaand it's not a rifle. It's a submachine gun, as per the guy who made it. Much like the Arca Sisco, it fulfills a very specific niche and that niche is not one shotting enemies at 3000 meters. It has a absurd crit profile, absurd ROF that can go on forever thanks to pexilus and on nonbosses the bleed damage is very very real, and on bosses the armor strip is very very real.

So much of what you said is wrong:

  • Non-snipers have a max range, I forgot what it is but it's not 1000. Take a look at the maximum distance you can hit an Eidolon or the Profit-Taker at.
  • There are no submachine guns, it's a rifle that uses rifle ammo and rifle mods. There are no submachine gun ammo or mods in the game.
  • Nothing (outside of space missions) can hit something 3000m away.

Yes it's a great gun and people don't realize that. However it's high accurate and low recoil (both I dare say better than almost every gun) lends to ranged use but with damage fall-off (only rifle to have fall-off) doesn't make sense.

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9 hours ago, BasKy said:

Lol that was my opinion you don't need to get all angery with me.
I said that twice, because I've been told twice that Baza Prime is too similar to Baza. If you wanted a different response you should've said something else.

Even if old weapons got better buffs (didn't check) they are still weaker than the newer ones. I have seen plenty primed Stradavar, Akstiletto, Tigris, Tiberon, but never Akbronco, Dakra or Boltor. Maybe the power gap between old and new weapons is getting too big.

The cutoff point to when prime weapons started becoming disappointing is after Gram prime. Also Akbronco is great for armor stripping, Dakras one of the best single swords, Boltor still sucks. I’m not going to lie they’re still underwhelming weapons. So now why are you just cherry picking prime weapons to make yourself look like you have a valid point.

Edited by (XB1)GearsMatrix301
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16 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

The cutoff point to when prime weapons started becoming disappointing is after Gram prime. Also Akbronco is great for armor stripping, Dakras not one of the best single swords, Boltor still sucks. I’m not going to lie they’re still underwhelming weapons. So now why are you just cherry picking prime weapons to make yourself look like you have a valid point.

It's a mr 10 sword and in most ways is equal but different to the broken war. I stumbled across this earlier because i still had one built in my inventory but here's a video on it.

The riven disposition being so much better than the broken war which is basically equal kinda puts it over the top.
 

 

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While I don't really like major power creep on Primes, I wouldn't mind seeing some on the Baza.

There is a severe lack of great (full auto) primaries. The Baza is good, but given that we have kit guns, and melee being the powerhouse that it is, its really not that impressive.

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1 hour ago, Lers said:

While I don't really like major power creep on Primes, I wouldn't mind seeing some on the Baza.

There is a severe lack of great (full auto) primaries. The Baza is good, but given that we have kit guns, and melee being the powerhouse that it is, its really not that impressive.

A good riven makes this weapon truly shine against many enemies, except high level grineer. Against those enemies, it has to rely on bleeds or armor stripping, which still works, but it's not the best.

To give you an example of its strength, with my riven it does an average of 3500 damage per shot. On top of that comes the bleed procs, viral procs, and it does 16 rounds per second.

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3 hours ago, (PS4)Black-Cat-Jinx said:

It's a mr 10 sword and in most ways is equal but different to the broken war. I stumbled across this earlier because i still had one built in my inventory but here's a video on it.

The riven disposition being so much better than the broken war which is basically equal kinda puts it over the top.
 

 

I meant one of the best single swords. Autocorrect ya know.

 

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8 hours ago, SpringRocker said:

Yes it's a great gun and people don't realize that. However it's high accurate and low recoil (both I dare say better than almost every gun) lends to ranged use but with damage fall-off (only rifle to have fall-off) doesn't make sense.

I do not have a Baza prime but I do have a Baza and a riven (not great but not useless).

Does being highly accurate compared to other rifles even matter? Unless Baza is compared to a Gorgon (or a weapon using heavy caliber) it not that hard to hit a head at 30 meters with just about any of the other rifle type weapons. The main problem is that rifles stagger the NPC making it better to use them at even closer range than the Baza's falloff.

And Exilus weapons adapters are a thing now, so any of the rifles can fit in stabilizer making Baza and Baza Prime only real claim to fame is that they are silenced.

 

Edited by LazyKnight
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1 hour ago, Koekiewollie said:

A good riven makes this weapon truly shine against many enemies, except high level grineer. Against those enemies, it has to rely on bleeds or armor stripping, which still works, but it's not the best.

To give you an example of its strength, with my riven it does an average of 3500 damage per shot. On top of that comes the bleed procs, viral procs, and it does 16 rounds per second.

I am fully aware of what it can do and how high it can go. I still wouldn't call it great. Good, but not great. As for Rivens, I refuse to judge a weapon based on how good it is with one, given the extremely random and ever changing nature of Rivens.

Edited by Lers
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8 minutes ago, Lers said:

I am fully aware of what it can do and how high it can go. I still wouldn't call it great. Good, but not great. As for Rivens, I refuse to judge a weapon based on how good it is with one, given the extremely random nature of Rivens.

I agree and I probably wouldn't be using it without a riven. It's almost as if they wanted this to be great, only for those that happen to have a good riven. I can understand the complaints about that.

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hace 10 horas, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 dijo:

The cutoff point to when prime weapons started becoming disappointing is after Gram prime. Also Akbronco is great for armor stripping, Dakras one of the best single swords, Boltor still sucks. I’m not going to lie they’re still underwhelming weapons. So now why are you just cherry picking prime weapons to make yourself look like you have a valid point.

So I am both giving bad examples (Dakra) and cherry picking. What did you want me to say, Boar Braton Burston Latron Dual Kamas Ankyros Hikou? There aren't many more primes. No I wasnt cherry picking.

I'm against giving buffs to primes for no reason, that's all. Didn't know my opinion would trigger people.

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