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There is currently no compelling reason for Requiem Fissures to exist.


Flavor-Savior
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Having engaged with approximately five or six liches since the launch of The Old Blood expansion, I've come to the conclusion that Requiem Fissures aren't really offering very much to the player aside from an artificial layer of RNG to pad out the experience. Upon cracking any given Requiem Relic, the player can obtain a few riven shards, an ayatan amber star, one of two possible requiem mods or an Exilus Weapon Adapter. Rivens can be acquired from sorties, and shards specifically now drop from Empyrean as well, ayatan stars drop from containers relatively frequently, and blueprints for Exilus Weapon Adapters can be purchased from syndicates, meaning that currently the only reason any player has to run Requiem Fissures is in the hope of obtaining degradable Requiem Mods to engage with Kuva Liches.

Degradable mods are a headache but that has admittedly been brought up plenty around these forums, and I'm not here to beat that particular horse carcass. Mostly I want to emphasize that there is no reason that the aforementioned Requiem Mods can't drop from Kuva Siphons/Floods. There would still be a layer of RNG in obtaining a specific Requiem Mod, but at least players wouldn't have to contend with the possibility of getting disappointing rewards from pubs or spending void traces on organized radshares. Because there is a higher time investment needed in obtaining the correct relic and collecting traces, it is inherently more demoralizing when you fail to get the mod you need; you've invested a disproportional amount of time in a failed attempt to get a single mod that will be purged from your inventory after three successful uses anyway.

In short, I don't think anybody is currently running Requiem Fissures for anything except Requiem Mods. If none of the other rewards within the relics are desirable, there is no reason for these relics to exist. Requiem Mods should be available elsewhere, i.e. direct drops from Kuva Siphons/Floods.

Edited by FlavorSavior
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I run them for exilus adapters because i use my rep to buy regular relic packs. The ayatan amber reward is also an insult.

You can also run kuva survival fissures and take the kuva reward for a handsome kuva/hour rate.

Edited by Skaleek
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13 minutes ago, Skaleek said:

I run them for exilus adapters because i use my rep to buy regular relic packs. The ayatan amber reward is also an insult.

You can also run kuva survival fissures and take the kuva reward for a handsome kuva/hour rate.

If exilus adapters are desirable, they can still be rolled into another reward table elsewhere, like arbitrations (or better yet, the arbitration store) or disruptions. Kuva is increasingly easier to obtain in large quantities now that it's being stocked in ten grand increments on the Nightwave store. There is still no convincing case to be made that any of these rewards must be obtainable from Requiem Fissures.

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3 minutes ago, FlavorSavior said:

If exilus adapters are desirable, they can still be rolled into another reward table elsewhere, like arbitrations (or better yet, the arbitration store) or disruptions. Kuva is increasingly easier to obtain in large quantities now that it's being stocked in ten grand increments on the Nightwave store. There is still no convincing case to be made that any of these rewards must be obtainable from Requiem Fissures.

I can say that about any game mode if i move the rewards of said game mode to another place...

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I agree the requiem rewards for common and rare is kind of bad when they exists other places in the game.

Some ideas for possible new items for future Requiem relics.
1. Lich specter blueprint as common that can use commands to make it use Railjack gunner, repair, and more. Good for solo players.
2. Some Primed mod as rare, as Ki teer is slow, very slow, for bringing the right primed mod.
3. Universal requiem mod as rare that can defeat enemy Lith without the need to guess.
4. Primed Orbiter landing craft parts and blueprints, some can be kuva appearance, for equipment, Orbiter, Select landing craft.

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33 minutes ago, Skaleek said:

I can say that about any game mode if i move the rewards of said game mode to another place...

Yes, except we're discussing the Requiem Fissures, which are an extension of the Kuva Lich system; The current iteration of the Kuva Lich system has been widely criticized for—among other things—having too many layers of RNG. Playing through a kuva flood has a 25% chance to give you the one relic you're looking for, which subsequently has at best a 59% chance to drop the mod you're looking for in a dedicated radshare, and at worst has an 11% chance to drop the mod if you don't want to waste your time farming traces and organizing a radshare. These are not very enticing odds if your only reason to engage in Requiem Fissures is to get Requiem Mods to defeat your lich. Current company notwithstanding, I think that it's very reasonable to assume that is going to be the case for most people jumping into Requiem Fissures.

Meanwhile if a kuva flood has a 100% chance to drop a Requiem Mod as I am suggesting, you will have a 12.5% chance to get the mod you're looking for. Not great odds either, certainly, but at least you'll know immediately instead of having to farm traces for a radshare that you may or may not have any luck organizing in the recruiting chat, or prepare yourself for almost certain disappointment when running pubs. You'd also stockpile a buffer of duplicate mods faster this way, because there wouldn't ever be an occasion that you were awarded zero Requiem Mods upon completing a kuva flood.

Edited by FlavorSavior
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2 minutes ago, FlavorSavior said:

Yes, except we're discussing the Requiem Fissures, which are an extension of the Kuva Lich system; The current iteration of the Kuva Lich system has been widely criticized for—among other things—having too many layers of RNG.

I'm with you there. The kuva lich system is a disaster, imo. I understand your suggestions. It's not what I would do to reduce RNG in the lich system, as the t5 fissure system does not bug me, but you do make valid points, and your solution is feasible.

Doesn't bug me in the least, although i have so many of the requiem mods now, i never considered that to be a rate limiting step of the kuva lich system. (~20 of each requiem mod).

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The entire system is a bad idea because once people get the things they want they'll stop playing, stop trading...and then anyone who comes later will have an unfairly difficult time completing the tasks. As it stands as soon as a new game mode came out people stopped playing old blood by and large, you stopped hearing of oldblood, so now anyone who came late to the party is already having to do notably more work, for the same reward. 

I mean it would be one thing if they were selling the mods like they sell lenses so that when this reaches the point in another month or two where you literally have to run all the relic missions solo people atleast have a way to bypass it, but no, they sell one pack of mods as part of an armor pack at a ridiculous price. 

They should have just made it a system where you kill the thrall to gain the runes and then have to figure out what order they're put in, the whole of the relic system needs to go because it's inevitable that once everyone has what they want they'll just stop playing it. Period. 

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Is it sad that I consider the requiem relics to be the best aspect of the Lich system?

It gives a reason to do Kuva Siphons and a reason to go to the Kuva Fortress aside from Kuva Survival.

The amber star is a joke reward, but you can convert the excess requiem mods into decent endo and Riven Slivers are a thing too, also it is a good low-investment method of farming Void Traces.

It is a really sad fact that I can say more positive about the rehashed requiem relic system than the actual Lich System

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The problem with Requiem Fissures is they have nothing to do with the Kuva Lich system from the standpoint of game design. They're an RNG originally intended to pad out the system, but they don't "fit" with the general gameplay loop of fighting one's Lich. It's better now that Requiem Relics drop from Thralls so they can be obtained WHILE fighting one's Lich, but that's only a token improvement. When DE say "sustainable rewards," what they typically mean is "consumables you have to play unrelated game modes to earn, in order to play the game mode you actually want."

I was going to create hypothetical exaggerated examples of this, but it occurs to me that the game already has plenty of real examples to go off of. Consider the Exploiter Orb. In order to fight this boss, you have to farm an almost entirely unrelated event. Or consider Kayla de Thaym and the Ambulas. In order to fight either, you have to run other missions for the entry fee currency. In all cases, this makes some thematic sense - you use Thermia to attack the Exploiter, you fight in the Arena to challenge the champion, you fight Ambulas proxies in order to attack the Animo project itself, etc. Gameplay-wise, however, this boils down to "go grind something else for a bit, then come back to try this." Oh! Also Mutalist Alad V, can't forget that.

In all cases, these - let's call them what they are - time sinks exist for no actual gameplay benefit from a player's perspective. They don't enhance the experience, they complement the core gameplay loop of the activities they gate (or even relate to it, in most cases) and we'd all generally be better off if they were taken away. However, DE of late seem to be trading game design for mobile game monetisation (i.e. rentals/consumables/upkeep, i.e. "sustainable rewards") so expect to not only NOT see any of that crap rolled back, but to see more and more of it added into new content moving forward. My only hope right now is that the naked cynicism of the Kuva Lich system was a result of DE running out of time and using it as a buffer, rather than an indicator of the company's philosophy moving forward.

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I've taken a break from Kuva Liches honestly. I'm fine with everything including grinding Murmurs but the Requiem Relics are pushing it. They aren't even properly integrated lore-wise. Corrupted Fissures have zero to do with Kuva Lich Requiems. Yet here we are having to use Void Traces to refine them instead of something like Kuva gained from killing Thralls or Murmurs. Considering all the layers of RNG with the 5 Forma Weapons, Stats and Ephemeras DE could've spared us and placed the Requiems in the Market. 20k credits for a random 3 pack. Once we've completed the Murmur grind and know which Requiems we need, we buy the Packs and deal with the Lich. With the condition that you need to get all your Murmurs before being able to face the Lich. That's off the top of my head anyway but would've been much simpler than grinding for Relics, doing Fissures and sitting in Trade Chat. All that after a few hours of Murmur Grind. I just hope they overhaul the current system and if possible completely remove the Relics from the system. As it stands they are totally unnecessary. 

Edited by Azrael_V
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Finding the right combination is another thing I find stupid.

After thousands of years the Tenno did not invent a mechanic that requires the enemy to have a special combination of mods to kill them. But no, the Grineer did it because ... space magic.

Just wait when the Corpus start mass producing this technology...

 

Making an enemy take no damage makes sence imo if there is a lot of armor or a strong shield(which requires big heavy generator). And since the amount of heavy (armor piercing) weapons is limited on the side of the Tenno I can see such a feature making sense. 

However a Kuva lich is not a tank(I can shoot the face of it). 

For now I don t want to kill my Lich anymore the system is just annoying but sadly someone gave the Kuva Lich my number and now he is harassing me in my orbiter.

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On 2020-01-07 at 8:34 PM, Skaleek said:

I can say that about any game mode if i move the rewards of said game mode to another place...

Sort of, but not really.

I think comparing apples to apples is the most logical thing to do---relic to relic.  Relics give prime parts, and possibly a forma, depending upon the relic.

Using the same logic on a requiem relic, we've got a forma(exilus forma), so while I don't really want it there, it does make some fashion of sense.  It's also worth noting that we complained when we where getting forma as a possibility on virtually every relic because it was a massive oversaturation of them and a dilution of desirable rewards.  This was since changed, but apparently the lesson was forgotten, because we just repeated it.

Next up, we've got kuva.  Yay.  Not a lot of kuva, mind you, just a smidge.  A small, little crap ball of Kuva.  Enough to make one third of a roll on a Riven with some rolls on it.  So congratulations folks, in your mindless lich grind, you can now have one third of a one in a hundred chance to have something useful.  But it is a more or less mod related item, on a relic that offers mods, so maybe, but keep in mind that old relics only have one indirectly mod item in their roll table(forma).  If we've gotta have kuva on here, it should be at least three thousand, five hundred kuva---the equivalent of one "full price" roll.  Given the relatively low value of a single roll, I still think this is insufficient for a relic unlock, but it's a far more tolerable train of thought than the pittance that twelve hundred is.

Now we've got Riven slivers.  Ten and you get yourself a Riven mod!  I don't actually want the things, mind you, because they are a slow, low value way to obtain a mod, but they do make sense.  I also think they're overpriced and five is a more appropriate amount of slivers, as this more roughly the equivalent rate of gain as to obtaining a prime weapon or frame.  Having to obtain ten denotes a significant amount of unlocked relics.  Just the same, it's mod a mod item on par with a "prime part", so I can see it having its place.

Next up is the ayatan star.  Honestly, wtf.  while the orange ones aren't as common as blue, they are common enough that this steaming pile has no place on here.  This isn't a boobie prize or anything like that, it's a flat out, rub it in your face, dance over your sobbing, fetal position body taunt that screams "we can waste your time if we want to!".  Total garbage, and no place whatsoever for it in the loot table.  As if just being a hunk of garbage on its own isn't enough, it's worth about....what?  The equivalent of a third to a quarter of an arbitration or sortie endo reward, except layered into the statue system?  Honestly, it can't be overstated how incredibly inappropriate these are in here.

I don't like the relic system repurposed for this in the first place, but if we're gonna do it, I do think we should do it right.  We've got a goal in mind here, similar to what we'd expect with a normal relic.  Short of that goal, we find parts that either further a comparable goal, or are then repurposed for something else(ducats) or even sold.  If we where to do something comparable, this is what it might look like:

Go into a Requiem relic mission to get a Netra mod.  The relic offers that mod, which would be the equivalent of your higher level item that is so often chased in prime relics.  The other rewards on that relic might include an exilus adapter(but not always), and a few other options, your bronze and silver items.  These items could be the equivalent of "parts", as in a third of a mod(three uses, three parts to make one).  Upon gaining either the full mod(gold reward) or three parts of the mod(bronze or silver), you've got your mod.  That's what we came for, it's what we wanted, and we didn't get stuck with largely unrelated fluff that wasted our time.  I think that'd be a better system, provided we really have to endure another relic grind in the first place.

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It’s great on the kuva survival mission, one of the best kuva farms in the game with good rng, good chance at 1300 kuva onto of the original 600 (or 1200 I’d your not crazy and use a booster) plus void traces, circuits, ect. Actually a good mission.

The riven slithers are underwhelming, 10 for a single riven!

The ayatan star is useless, and should be replaced

The weapon Exilus adapter isn’t the best, but I would be more fond of it if it existed in only 1 of the four relics.

 

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