Stealth Bonus in Railjack

[Marvelous_A]

4 hours ago, Vit0Corleone said:

as you're missing out on a ton of stuff you get by actually playing Railjack missions, and instead choosing to do a repetitive and boring activity all over.. and over.. and over.. for the sole purpose of getting MR

That totally sounds like grinding RJ missions without stealth to be honest.

[spirit_of_76]

36 minutes ago, (XB1)TehChubbyDugan said:

They ALWAYS do nerfs first.  Every time.  They'll put a bandaid on a few things, fix some bugs, fix a bunch of stuff that THEY put in the game and then call it "unintended" because it wasn't grindy enough in the state that it was in, and they'll nerf the bejeezus out of anything that reduces player grind or is fun in a way that they didn't "intend" because that is what they have literally always done for the past several years.  I'm starting to think I'm beating my head against the wall by continuing to play this game.

 can you give examples where they game was not being broken (Ie the half assed fix to loot duplication on grove specters) or where new game modes made had a problem where one did not previously exist (see chroma nerfs while still half assed more was needed there is a reason he is indispensable for trydons and profit taker), 

I don't disagree that they often over react and don't think when find a problem but I still fully agree with some of the nerfs reasons even if I disagree with the nerf it's self (Ie how it was done\specifics of the nerf) case in point I agreed that loot mechanics needed to be fixed I did not agree with the method of the nerf or how some of the mod related stuff was handled (personally loot frames should have never been added and nekros is a waste of life support but I am an Oberon main) similar goes for Chroma but instead of just nerfing how his 3 instead they should have started a full blown rework that put him in line with other buffing frames.  

1 hour ago, (XB1)TehChubbyDugan said:

They put some attractive Canadians on a live stream a few times a month to give political answers to legitimate questions, fixed a slot machine mechanic literally one time, several years ago, and they've been riding the wave of good will that generated ever since, despite putting in several more slot machines.  It honestly speaks volumes about the rest of the game industry that these are the "good" devs

I know they fixed a paid slot machine in the past and that they recently revamped the mod paid mod pack but what PAID slot machines stilll exist (rivens don't count you can't through DE spend plat on kuva or rivens you can only get that from players) I agree the in-game RNG is more than a little over kill but most of it is still in the realms of OK only lichs and rail jack are way to much RNG and even then most of the problem there is they did not properly implement the RNG (for rail jack they have to many layers for the acquisition rate, storage limitations and UI quality while liches mostly don't have good progression or longevity thanks to having RNG in the wrong spot simply put if they were smart frame would control weapon a lich uses not elemental bonuses their weapon has00)

[Teliko_Freedman]

The only nerf I can think of they'd ever do in regards to this, You lose everything if you fail the mission/abort.

 

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

Just now, spirit_of_76 said:

 can you give examples where they game was not being broken (Ie the half assed fix to loot duplication on grove specters) or where new game modes made had a problem where one did not previously exist (see chroma nerfs while still half assed more was needed there is a reason he is indispensable for trydons and profit taker), 

I don't disagree that they often over react and don't think when find a problem but I still fully agree with some of the nerfs reasons even if I disagree with the nerf it's self (Ie how it was done\specifics of the nerf) case in point I agreed that loot mechanics needed to be fixed I did not agree with the method of the nerf or how some of the mod related stuff was handled (personally loot frames should have never been added and nekros is a waste of life support but I am an Oberon main) similar goes for Chroma but instead of just nerfing how his 3 instead they should have started a full blown rework that put him in line with other buffing frames.  

I know they fixed a paid slot machine in the past and that they recently revamped the mod paid mod pack but what PAID slot machines stilll exist (rivens don't count you can't through DE spend plat on kuva or rivens you can only get that from players) I agree the in-game RNG is more than a little over kill but most of it is still in the realms of OK only lichs and rail jack are way to much RNG and even then most of the problem there is they did not properly implement the RNG (for rail jack they have to many layers for the acquisition rate, storage limitations and UI quality while liches mostly don't have good progression or longevity thanks to having RNG in the wrong spot simply put if they were smart frame would control weapon a lich uses not elemental bonuses their weapon has00)

The way you worded the first question is confusing, I'm not exactly sure what you're asking there.  Examples where they nerfed first?  Literally every weapon nerf ever, while not addressing enemy scaling despite admitting that it's a problem is the first thing that comes to mind.  Nerf player meta, don't fix problems that created player meta, continue to nerf player meta while literally continuing to put things in the game that require player meta.  "Damage bad, Crowd Control good.  New enemies are all immune to CC, covered in null bubbles or have truckloads of health and armor that you can barely strip.  Damage meta still bad, more nerfs needed.  No idea why players don't want to repeatedly CC enemies and chip away at their health.  Must fix damage meta."

As to your second point, it doesn't really matter if you're gambling with cash, or chips you paid for with cash.  You're still gambling with cash, and that's why we have non-refundable rush repair drones to bypass insane resource costs and 12 hour time gates.  Removing plat from circulation is just as good for them as you buying plat.

[TARINunit9]

6 hours ago, Wolfdoggie said:

Or they could finally delete Stealth and replace it with something cool that doesn't trivialize content. Maybe Ash and Loki will be able to do something useful beyond hiding. 

Ash at least deals armor-ignoring damage. Loki doesn't need a rework, he is and has always been the frame for trolling your enemies instead of fighting them, like the gods we are

[(PSN)robotwars7]

or they could just grant Intrinsics form all the same actions that give affinity, maybe at a ratio of 1000 Affinity = 1 Intrinsic point. the numbers can be adjusted of course.

I work my a$$ off on random people's ships going between Gunner seats, taking out crewships, patching holes, and making sure we don't miss any loot. yet I can't get as many Intrinsics as someone who grabs Ivara, boards a crewship and stealth kills a bunch of Grineer? not exactly a fair system IMO. you want Intrinsics? do stuff on the ship, that's how you're supposed to earn it, because Intrinsics are there to help WITH THE FREAKING SHIP!

oh, and let's not forget that even if you're at rank 10 in all categories, you're still gonna have to do this again when the Command Intrinsic goes live. (can't come soon enough IMO).

 

 

[DrivaMain]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

or they could just grant Intrinsics form all the same actions that give affinity, maybe at a ratio of 1000 Affinity = 1 Intrinsic point. the numbers can be adjusted of course.

I work my a$$ off on random people's ships going between Gunner seats, taking out crewships, patching holes, and making sure we don't miss any loot. yet I can't get as many Intrinsics as someone who grabs Ivara, boards a crewship and stealth kills a bunch of Grineer? not exactly a fair system IMO. you want Intrinsics? do stuff on the ship, that's how you're supposed to earn it, because Intrinsics are there to help WITH THE FREAKING SHIP!

oh, and let's not forget that even if you're at rank 10 in all categories, you're still gonna have to do this again when the Command Intrinsic goes live. (can't come soon enough IMO).

 

 

I agree. It’s hillarious and sad that the best way to earn Intrinsics is to not use the Railjack. I can see a nerf to Ivara farming method in tomorrow’s hotfix.

 

[spirit_of_76]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)TehChubbyDugan said:

As to your second point, it doesn't really matter if you're gambling with cash, or chips you paid for with cash.  You're still gambling with cash, and that's why we have non-refundable rush repair drones to bypass insane resource costs and 12 hour time gates.  Removing plat from circulation is just as good for them as you buying plat.

to address the second part first that is not a blind box nor is it gambling you know what you are starting and that you could get a better one in the interim while it builds that is just being impatient and then not dealing with the consequences of your impatients.  

5 minutes ago, (XB1)TehChubbyDugan said:

Literally every weapon nerf ever, while not addressing enemy scaling despite admitting that it's a problem is the first thing that comes to mind.

you mean fixing a problem so core to the game the resulting rework would literaly change every part of the game? I can tell you why they have not done it it is because the comunity starts ree-ing when ever stuff is nerfed even if the overall change increases player power (see melee 3.0)

8 minutes ago, (XB1)TehChubbyDugan said:

Damage meta still bad, more nerfs needed.  No idea why players don't want to repeatedly CC enemies and chip away at their health.  Must fix damage meta."

you mean the meta where saryn nukes the entier map form spawn by spaming 1,4 or the one where ember and banshe just spam 4 and the the hot key for energy pads? 

if you are whining about the wolf he was a fun challenge (same goes for the plains mini boss) and all you needed was a crit melee with radiation damage and shattering impact to tare him apart (that or an arch gun with radiation damage IE what ever you were using for profit taker)

12 minutes ago, (XB1)TehChubbyDugan said:

New enemies are all immune to CC, covered in null bubbles or have truckloads of health and armor that you can barely strip

nully bubbles are poorly designed ill give you that but making thing that you can kill with your warframe is how you make CC better (now they would need to add more Vauban and harrow style hard CC to make that work) granted if say CC still worked in arbitrations then CC frames would be more popular.  

as far as weapon nerfs go what are you talking about the most recent stuff I remember were weapon buffs and a lot of them short of a broken OP weapon where they only reduced it's range not it's damage poential and added a way to get most of the range back with some time and froma investment (20-30 min and 75-100k syndicate standing) you are not convincing me at all 

[spirit_of_76]

14 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

or they could just grant Intrinsics form all the same actions that give affinity, maybe at a ratio of 1000 Affinity = 1 Intrinsic point. the numbers can be adjusted of course.

I work my a$$ off on random people's ships going between Gunner seats, taking out crewships, patching holes, and making sure we don't miss any loot. yet I can't get as many Intrinsics as someone who grabs Ivara, boards a crewship and stealth kills a bunch of Grineer? not exactly a fair system IMO. you want Intrinsics? do stuff on the ship, that's how you're supposed to earn it, because Intrinsics are there to help WITH THE FREAKING SHIP!

oh, and let's not forget that even if you're at rank 10 in all categories, you're still gonna have to do this again when the Command Intrinsic goes live. (can't come soon enough IMO).

well intrinsics should only be rewarded from Railjack and archwing stuff (including the destruction of crew ships and killing boarding parties but not from killing enimies when you board stuff) how ever a better method would be to let the rail jack be stealthy and get stealth kills

[PatternistSlave]

They just need to fix affinity not being shared so someone can go off and stealth kill while everyone else does the actual mission and everyone gets XP.  It's not that big a deal to get intrinsics anyway tho.  I'm at 9889 and have never done the stealth thing.

[dogbus]

 

1 hour ago, DrivaMain said:

Intrinsics are not meant to be maxed out in a day

I mean technically it would take at least 34 hours straight with stealth intrinsic farming, and that's including enough for Command... 27 hours without Command, so it still won't be done in a day. 2, sure.
 

1 hour ago, Diavoros said:

there is no reason to even join a random squad to do it.

To be fair, those people are after the intrinsic gained by others and the end of mission rewards because its a lot faster to complete the mission for getting a chance for one of the 2% drops.
 

27 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

you're still gonna have to do this again when the Command Intrinsic goes live

With this technique, its not really hard to stash away 1023 intrinsic levels for when it DOES go live...almost 7 hours worth of runs to do so.

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

1 hour ago, spirit_of_76 said:

that is why they made ESO it was to kill the adaro stealth farm with out killing the ability to stealth farm EXP it still work but is not as worth it with the changes to trydolans and the addition of ESO (happened in back to back updates) granted it can still 0-30 a war frame in one mission but it takes 2 people (one good friend to help you level) if they are smart they will nerf the ease of stealth in those missions but at the same time make rail jack stuff more rewarding like say 1k EXP for killing a crew ship and better EXP sharing or nodes where the mission is easyier to do and therefor gives better exp (hydron VS hellen is an example)

The problem is that they don't want to make the grind rewarding.

[spirit_of_76]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

The problem is that they don't want to make the grind rewarding.

do you mean that the intrinsic buffs are not worth it? or that the related rail jack grind is to large? because I fully disagree with you especially with how fast you can get intrinsics with out trying

[Teridax68]

I think the fundamental problem here is that, while grinding Intrinsics through cheesy stealth runs is repetitive, so is grinding Intrinsics through "regular" means, as Railjack content is currently not especially diverse, nor all that rewarding. If we had more things to do than just destroy ships, and those things gave us better rewards, it would already make many more players feel less compelled to cheese in order to progress. I do think the stealth bonus is itself a broken system that needs to be redone somehow (it's only truly relevant when engaging in exactly this kind of niche strat), but cutting it out without having any sort of rewarding progression system already in place is likely not going to work in DE's favor.

Beyond that, though, I think we also need to acknowledge that Intrinsics as a progression system haven't worked out that well in general: they were clearly added as an additional grinding system to pad out playtime in Railjack, much like Focus was added as yet another Affinity sink, after OG Syndicate Standing before it, and like all of those previous systems, that system got cheesed because Warframe's current design lends itself easily to loot cave-style Affinity farming. To some extent, it's kind of cute that DE expected us to take weeks to get to the Veil Proxima, because given our propensity to min-max and cheese every single aspect of this game, we were essentially guaranteed to blaze through this content as with everything else, including Kuva Liches which now have a lifespan of only a few hours. This particular kind of strat was also known for literal years and was once the optimal way to farm Focus as well, so the developers really should've seen this coming. Thus, rather than try to pad out further content through Affinity gates, or horribly diluted loot, the developers should instead look to give us more... intrinsic incentives to replay content, which is what many players had hoped out of this new mode.

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

10 hours ago, spirit_of_76 said:

do you mean that the intrinsic buffs are not worth it? or that the related rail jack grind is to large? because I fully disagree with you especially with how fast you can get intrinsics with out trying

I mean that Intrinsics are just a grind similar to Focus, except unlike Focus you are locked into a mode that rewards almost nothing worth your time. Every single reward when grinding Intrinsics only applies to your Railjack.

Is Archwing a good grind? Because it is similarly isolated and only rewards things for your Archwing. Except at least that grind can be completed in a reasonable amount of time compared to Intrinsics, especially if you don't have a booster.

Perhaps if the gameplay loop was enjoyable, or the rewards had better drop rates then the grind would feel better, but so far it feels like Intrinsics having 60k (75k eventually) mastery was done just to make player's suffer through Railjack.

[WhiteyTighties]

Thank you DE for not nerfing the Stealth Bonus in railjack with the new update 🙂 one love

[Vit0Corleone]

8 minutes ago, Lord_Babadook said:

Thank you DE for not nerfing the Stealth Bonus in railjack with the new update 🙂 one love

They sort of did. You no longer keep intrinsics if you abort, which means now you actually have to complete the mission. No more quit farming.

[Jarriaga]

On 2020-01-08 at 12:44 PM, Jarriaga said:

I've abused this stealth farm myself and I'm setting at 6/8/8/8 thanks to it, but I think it will be nerfed because I don't think DE are happy with a progression method that involves aborting missions because it's not efficient.

They may make it so you only keep the intrinsics you get in mission if you actually complete it, and lose it all if you abort.

 

1 hour ago, [DE]Megan said:

Fixed bug where Intrinsics could be kept on mission abort, which was never intended.

 

Told you that's what DE were going to do....

Edited January 9, 2020 by Jarriaga

[spirit_of_76]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

I mean that Intrinsics are just a grind similar to Focus, except unlike Focus you are locked into a mode that rewards almost nothing worth your time. Every single reward when grinding Intrinsics only applies to your Railjack.

that is fine by me I play rail jack because I like to play rail jack

3 hours ago, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

Perhaps if the gameplay loop was enjoyable,

that is a you problem I enjoy it 

[dogbus]

1 hour ago, Vit0Corleone said:

They sort of did. You no longer keep intrinsics if you abort, which means now you actually have to complete the mission. No more quit farming.

I'm OK with how they handled it, cause I actually complete the missions. 

There are (only counting affinity booster):
60-90 enemies to stealth kill inside the galleon (10k each) 30-45 levels
90 fighters to kill in archwing (1k each) 4.5 levels
20-30 enemies to kill inside the secondary objective (10k each) 10-15 levels
6 crewships to destroy (1k each) 0.6 level
13 crewships farmed with 10-15 enemies each (5-10k each) ~80 levels

For a total of 125-145 intrinsic levels per run (usually takes me about an hour to clear the whole thing), without even factoring in smeeta buffs. So, it still works out pretty comparably to quit farming, you just are in one mission instead of a bunch that you abort. 
 

[Vit0Corleone]

2 minutes ago, Vaeldious said:

I'm OK with how they handled it, cause I actually complete the missions. 

There are (only counting affinity booster):
60-90 enemies to stealth kill inside the galleon (10k each) 30-45 levels
90 fighters to kill in archwing (1k each) 4.5 levels
20-30 enemies to kill inside the secondary objective (10k each) 10-15 levels
6 crewships to destroy (1k each) 0.6 level
13 crewships farmed with 10-15 enemies each (5-10k each) ~80 levels

For a total of 125-145 intrinsic levels per run (usually takes me about an hour to clear the whole thing), without even factoring in smeeta buffs. So, it still works out pretty comparably to quit farming, you just are in one mission instead of a bunch that you abort. 
 

One thing missing on that list, although I think you're probably doing that already considering the intrinsics you're earning, is the ramsleds.

Park your Railjack next to a structure and go do an objective or something. When you come back, your Railjack will have dozens of intruders ripe for stealth killing.

Same with crew ships, wait for them to send ramsleds before going in.

[Jarriaga]

12 minutes ago, Vaeldious said:

I'm OK with how they handled it, cause I actually complete the missions. 

There are (only counting affinity booster):
60-90 enemies to stealth kill inside the galleon (10k each) 30-45 levels
90 fighters to kill in archwing (1k each) 4.5 levels
20-30 enemies to kill inside the secondary objective (10k each) 10-15 levels
6 crewships to destroy (1k each) 0.6 level
13 crewships farmed with 10-15 enemies each (5-10k each) ~80 levels

For a total of 125-145 intrinsic levels per run (usually takes me about an hour to clear the whole thing), without even factoring in smeeta buffs. So, it still works out pretty comparably to quit farming, you just are in one mission instead of a bunch that you abort. 
 

Indeed. Plus you still have to complete the mission anyway if you happen to get a Pennant or Quellor drop or you lose the BP's.

I abused the system and went from 4/1/8/2 from normal play to 6/8/8/8 playing 4 hours in 3 days with the stealth farm method while aborting, only to eventually start soloing the mission with my AW and stealth killing entire crewship populations, so I'm OK with this change.

As I posted yesterday, I saw this change coming a mile away. I don't think DE was happy about a farming method that involved actually avoiding content when their target acquisition rate for intrinsic was target for "months" as per their own words in Update 27.0 release notes.

Edited January 9, 2020 by Jarriaga

[dogbus]

2 minutes ago, Vit0Corleone said:

One thing missing on that list, although I think you're probably doing that already considering the intrinsics you're earning, is the ramsleds.

I actually tend to avoid those, although that is effective too, thanks for pointing that out. The main thing I do after the galleon is capture the 6th crewship so another spawns, capture it, rinse and repeat. The game has a limit of 8 simultaneous crewships spawned in, so the most I can pull is a total of 13 (the initial 5 that I destroy, and then the last 8 that I capture). I could farm boarding parties in the same amount of time, but managing crewships is easier because I don't have to manage damage, waste resources with repairs, and not nearly as high of a risk of dying with such a fragile frame as my ivara is. Running out of revives is the only way I could fail on a crewship, and that I will at least have time to prepare for.

[JackHargreav]

De should totally nerf this. It would be hilarious.

[BornWithTeeth]

20 hours ago, Teliko_Freedman said:

The only nerf I can think of they'd ever do in regards to this, You lose everything if you fail the mission/abort.

 

Get this Tenno a lottery ticket.