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The current I/P/S Pros and Cons


Leavith
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I have made a thread regarding magnetic, viral, and corrosive, and it so fad has been a good discussion.

This time i want to bring the discussion to the three most prominent damage types we deal with.

Now the situation we have isn't much of a discussion of issues that the IPS have but will likely bring up some of the previous topics that have been discussing regarding our IPS we USD.

The goal here is to Brainstorm, how we can bring stuff to a balance that we can say hey DE, we would appreciate if we can get this benefits that way we have more freedom in the weapons we use.  The goal here isn't he make all weapon great, no that is stupid, i am the type of person that believes weapons should excel over others. This, however, isn't the same as believing damage type shouldn't, they should be based on the pros and cons of the situation being faced.

Example electric is good against a corpus, fire is good against infested... This is cool and you know you can use this as damage to my enemies. 

........

Impact damage-benefits are that the procs stagger the enemy and are damaged greatly against shields. 

The disadvantage is that it isn't such great against the others like flesh and armor, the stagger also doesn't last long.

A side way chance, is shattering impact

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Puncture damage-benefits are that the damage is good against the enemy is armor type... Is procs lower damage( doesn't make much of a difference i will be honest)

The disadvantage is that the proc is duration, the damage reduction is low, and isn't the best against flesh and shields.

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Slash damage-benefits that is amazing against flesh and proc is the king damage type is slash and that DoT is finisher damage.

The disadvantage is that the damage type isn't good against shield and armor...(but procs kinda handles this weakness)

........

So i do have some ideas on how to make the damage better, but i want to hear the opinion that we have for them.

Puncture could create mini sonar spots (like a mini sona) that either increase damage that hit does areas or make a percentage of that damage finisher. ( this would make the proc close to the level of slashdot ignore proc.)

Impact could create a Debuff, that it increases the proc chance or/crit chance of future weapon use on the enemy.

......

This may be a bit to high of expectation but is an idea.

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Adding a damage component to their status would likely make them much more attractive compared to how they are now.

Here are my suggestions:

Impact procs cause the damage instance to deal double damage.

Puncture procs cause the damage instance to ignore a portion of the DR of armor.

This would be added in addition to their current status.

Basically this change would allow these damage types to increase damage like slash, but it would be more frontloaded. Ideally one proc of impact would deal less damage than one instance of slash.

 

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33 minutes ago, Ohmlink said:

Adding a damage component to their status would likely make them much more attractive compared to how they are now.

Here are my suggestions:

Impact procs cause the damage instance to deal double damage.

Puncture procs cause the damage instance to ignore a portion of the DR of armor.

This would be added in addition to their current status.

Basically this change would allow these damage types to increase damage like slash, but it would be more frontloaded. Ideally one proc of impact would deal less damage than one instance of slash.

 

I like this, that's kinda what i was thinking with my idea but i wasn't able to make an ideal idea.

But yes my main idea is make it more attractive.

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They are damage types, so they should have effects that provide more damage by some means. 

Impact: makes enemies concussed, and causes them to damage their allies (not unlike radiation, but they don't get targeted by other enemies just have their friendly fire turned on) they take bonus melee damage (half the effect of stealth damage) when under this proc and reduce shield recharge rate . 

Puncture : does 75% of damage as true damage in that instance, creates hot spots, that reduce armor effectiveness by 50% that lasts for duration of proc.

Slash : slash Dot with slightly less effective damage per tic (maybe half the existing), any damage received while under proc does 25% of damage as true damage. 

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In terms of procs:

Impact is decent, but most players these days would rather enemies just die rather than be stunned. CC used to be king, but power creep has gone so far that nuking is actually viable. Puncture simply doesn't find any use; enemies will either die too quickly, or you will get surrounded, and one enemy with a proc won't save you when there are six more that don't. Slash not only kills things, but it ignores armor, the thing we hate at high levels

In terms of damage:

Corpus shields are weak to it, but nothing else (only two enemies in the game use Grineer Robot health, one exclusive to Spy missions and one has like 25 health). Even the health underneath the shields resists Impact. All the enemies we care about resist Impact. Puncture is halfway decent, it at least sorta punches through enemy armor. Slash, well there is the moneyshot. Only Corpus robots resist it, everything else has some level of weakness. And since it's proc is so good, might as well maximize it

My thoughts:

In the past I had hoped Sentients would be weak to Magnetic, Blast, and/or Impact in order to pump new life into those. Sadly DE gave Sentients Grineer's Ferrite Armor and Corpus Robot health, making them weak to Corrosive like everything else

Edited by TARINunit9
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9 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

They are damage types, so they should have effects that provide more damage by some means. 

I totally agree with this part and our current issue that our damage type all funnel down to just a couple of useful ones.

I don't use often magnetic, radiation, cold, fire, electric, and toxic.

I often use corrosive, viral, gas, and ironically blast. Blast mainly because is usually paired with corrosive.

My usual distinction on what i use for melee is based on slash damage. Granted in pvp puncture for melee and impact for secondary. Primary usually balanced.

As for my own primary and secondary in PVE is normally based on fire rate & status if i am using it for corrosive, and viral/slash or gas if is a crit weapon.

I would love the weapon i/p to get a better effect and more towards the level slash is in versatility. As to what effect i have ideas on what direction just as you but i do want stuff to be balanced.

9 hours ago, Miser_able said:

I actually like the stagger on impact procs, since high fire rate weapons can stagger lock enemies. A max fire rate peacemaker for example. 

I understand, kinds the issue here is that it could be better, especially when compared not in terms of damage or effect but the versatility to slash.

Slash damage in itself because of is procs is usually welcome everywhere, but while impact that as you have stated only good with things that can use it.

I use a bo prime with high range, high attack speed, blast damage, and shattering impact. To CC the crap out of high level grineer heavy enemies as i break there armor and keep them down.

8 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

My thoughts:

In the past, I had hoped Sentients would be weak to Magnetic, Blast, and/or Impact in order to pump new life into those. Sadly DE gave Sentients, Ferrite Armor and Corpus Robot health, making them weak to Corrosive like everything else

You did a good analysis and i respect your thoughts on this. I think, my overall take away from all of it was the lacking of the weapon type of impact & puncture and just sharing my own experience: i use puncture weapon when they are high damage and status(viral puncture/radiation puncture) grineer only between 40-80 LVL, i use impact weapon when dealing with lower-level enemies 0-40(impact/gas & corrosive/impact) and reason why i have weapons i love but at some point, some damage works better. 

I don't need to slash proc at all levels so i use the other damage type when wanting more frontload damage. This is where my issue with damage type extends damage type i think were intended to be used against enemy based on the supremacy of is multiplier to that such enemy resistance.

However now we use it based on the effect, which is alright but not all effect is equal in terms of is used which is okay as long as is, well taking a negative set of words separate, but equal. The issue at the current is that yeah they are separated  but not equal some just excel over other and as damage types in a weapon that cant be controlled unlike element... The IPS should show this eve more instead of being greatly bias towards one. I don't want power creep buff here but i do want an overall equality in some form of give and take.

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