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The High Crit Hybrid Meta


LostSeeker0
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I'm starting to see a growing disparity when it comes to many weapons, from comparing status to critical. And in my time of playing, I've come to find the most effective solution to wiping out engame mobs is to have exceedingly powerful critical weapons with fast attack speed, and a small secondary to status.

In order to fully understand this, we need to look at how both critical and status scale. Problem is, critical is fairly straightforward in how easily it can cause abhorrent amounts of damage, while status had literally thirteen different effects to choose from.

One of the most jarring aspects of Status is how many affects simply do not even scale. Let's examine all of the statuses from the Wiki:

  • Impact: Staggers the enemy for 1 second, preventing them from attacking. Even despite the fact that this can help you not get attacked, this has zero contribution for making the enemy die any quicker. Does not stack, so high status chance is unnecessary.
  • Puncture: Causes the enemy to deal only 70% damage. Both In the same place as Impact and making less sense than Impact effect-wise, this has zero contribution for killing the enemy faster. Does not stack, so high status chance is unnecessary.
  • Slash: Enemy suffers 245% base true damage over 6 seconds, ignoring shields and armor. Slash procs can stack, allowing for high amounts of DoT to be piled on. Probably the only status that can truly stand as an equal to Critical, and this would be a solid reason to use a high slash status weapon. Due to being damage based, critical can amp the damage of the bleed proc, encouraging hybridization.
  • Heat: Enemy suffers 350% base heat damage over 6 seconds, causing them to panic over 4 seconds, and halving their armor. This is extremely effective against armored targets, and repeated applications will increase the DoT's overall damage while resetting the timer, encouraging stacking of status. For critical weapons, heat is simply used as a cheap way to break armor and allow the crits to annihilate Grineer better. Due to being damage based, critical can amp the damage of the bleed proc, encouraging hybridization.
  • Cold: Reduces Movement Speed, Fire Rate, and Attack Speed to 50% for 6 seconds. Not only does it not contribute to a faster kill time, but this effect does not stack, making its use on a high status weapon redundant when a high speed critical weapon can apply it just as effectively.
  • Electricity: Deals 50% base electric damage to enemies within 3 meters of the target, and stuns them for 3 seconds. Only useful in large groups and even then, the damage often doesn't do enough to warrant electric's use when Corrosive or Radiation could offer better effects. This does not stack, which means this is most efficiently used on a high speed critical weapon.
  • Toxin: Deals 450% toxin damage over 8 seconds. This stacks, which could be treated as a non-true damage version of Slash, enticing the use of a high status weapon to pile on as many procs as possible. Downside is this damage type is underused due to high armor frequently being a problem. Due to being damage based, critical can amp the damage of the bleed proc, encouraging hybridization.
  • Blast: Knocks down both the target and all enemies within 5 meters of the target. Procs can only affect again when the enemy is trying to stand back up, so piling on status for this is not a necessity. Besides the crowd control, this serves very little purpose in speeding the death of the enemy, unless applied to a melee weapon, in which this allows for easy cheapshot ground finishers.
  • Corrosive: Reduces current armor by 25% permanently. Stacks until the enemy is completely depleted of armor, in which moderate to high status chance is recommended. Useful in making Grineer die quicker.
  • Gas: Creates a 3 meter radius effect which deals 450% base toxin damage over 8 seconds. You can literally stack tons of these on top of each other to apply ridiculous amounts of Toxin procs within an area. High status benefits this status greatly, with the only drawback that armor scaling may get in the way, with Gas combining both heat and toxin, which are the keys to breaking armor. Due to being damage based, critical can amp the damage of the bleed proc, encouraging hybridization.
  • Magnetic: Reduces target's current and maximum shield by 75% for 4 seconds. Does not stack, and is only really useful against Corpus, which this suffers heavily against Alloy Armor.
  • Radiation: Affected target attacks any closest target, regardless of friend or foe, and can also be attacked by their allies for 12 seconds. Does not stack, which means high status for this should not be a primary focus. Useful as both CC, and can somewhat speed up the death of enemies by having them try to kill each other, but this is highly situational due to the confusion effect being redundant should the Tenno be in close proximity to be targeted already or knocked down/CC'd by said Tenno.
  • Viral: Reduces max and current health by 50%, effectively doubling the damage an enemy takes. Extremely useful all around but does not stack, dissuading the need for high status to wreck an enemy. Pairs well with high critical slashing and/or heat weapons.

As we can see, there is MASSIVE imbalance within the status effects themselves, some desirable, other's less so. The biggest culprit is how useful each status is when it comes to killing anything in general, which is why slash, heat, corrosive, and viral come out as the most useful in terms of shortening the time to kill. Another thing to note is if the status even stacks or not, which those that don't shouldn't even need a 100% status chance weapon if the weapon is simply rapid fire enough. Due to the existence of some very quick critical weapons, this tips the scales further into the favor of critical. Yet at the same time, that little bit of status on such weapons is necessary to break through Grineer armor and apply a viral proc, creating a meta for high critical weapons that can apply status out of sheer probability of attacks inflicted within a short duration of time.

Even more jarring is how Condition Overload works now, by acting as a secondary Pressure Point, being an additive to base damage instead of multiplicative. While this doesn't allow Status to scale wildly, there also is another problem that Condition Overload hinges on, is that you can only apply so many different status effects before you run out of different types to apply, giving this mod a hard cap in how it can scale. To add insult to injury to status weapons, this mod can become yet another contribution to boosting critical damage, the simple mass spamming of quick melee weapons can apply enough statuses quickly to cause the base damage to increase drastically, which in turn high criticals can hit for even more ridiculous amounts of damage.

Yet another problem is Hunter Munitions. As if Status supporting critical wasn't bad enough, we now have a mod designed to give Criticals its own status. Simply put, get a weapon that's 100% critical or more and go hog wild, watching the enemy bleed to death under the force of critical spiked slash procs. Why settle for a slash based primary when you can have any critical based primary causing horrendous bleeds on top of whatever status normally applied, since this mod allows the weapon to actually apply two statuses in one blow?

AND DON'T EVEN GET ME STARTED ON STATUS IMMUNE ENEMIES. This is probably one of the biggest nails in the coffin for pure status weapons, enemies that will completely invalidate the purpose of such weapons entirely. Tusk Thumpers, Eidolons, any sort of Sentient enemy, Gokstad Officers being immune to any sort of armor reduction, and the Wolf of Saturn Six. It would be fair (if not ironically frustrating) if we had some enemies immune to all criticals but not status, but that's not even a thing, placing critical weapons even higher on a pedestal.

This is unfortunately our meta now. Any weapon that's pure status can be very undesirable compared to the high critical status hybrid weapons. I hope that DE can fix this soon, as both the undesirability of some status effects and how Status has become simply another stepstool for Critical to do its thing has pretty much demoted a massive chunk of our status based weapons to being nothing more than MR fodder due to underperforming against this meta.

Edited by LostSeeker0
grammar
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31 minutes ago, LostSeeker0 said:
  • Blast: Knocks down both the target and all enemies within 5 meters of the target. Procs can only affect again when the enemy is trying to stand back up

A bit off-topic, but is this the case ingame once again? Because Blast procs broke in late 2017 and I don't recall them ever being fixed (i.e. enemies couldn't be knocked down again while the "icon" was still active-- meaning you could blast-proc an enemy 99999 times over the course of an hour and only the first one would actually cause a knockdown).

 

But yeah, damage types are a wee bit of a mess. ESPECIALLY the nonsense with Condition Overload, which destroyed the viability of nearly any non-crit melee weapon.
Unfortunately, DE's attention shifted away from Melee 3.0, so we can expect to see zero changes to this problem for the next seven years...

Edited by SortaRandom
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  • 2 weeks later...

So, me and my friends were playing some missions, and we noticed that Liches, and even Sentients (aside from the Eidolons) are now vulnerable to status. This is a step in the right direction, but there are still glaring issues with how statuses work now.

Statuses need a rebalance to make many of the forgotten ones like Magnetic worth using on non-Corpus enemies, or corrosive on non-Grineer. Perhaps enable Magnetic to shut down Eximus abilities and other special actions enemies can have, while Corrosive begins turning into a DoT when it procs on an enemy with no armor?

We need ideas, let's get some discussion rolling on how to get status as suitable as critical.

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I prefer complete status immunity to be replaced to status resistance. So status weapons have a place against the new wave of enemies without them overpowering crit weapons because some status are outright broken and cheesy and extremely broken when combined with Critical weapons.

Some examples on how status reacts to status resistant enemies.

1. Viral : no longer gives -50% health reduction instantly but instead gives 1% Reduction to health and can be stacked to a cap of 50%.

2. Corrosive : Armor reduction caps out at when target’s armor at 50% of the total armor values. Following procs reset the timer

3. Slash : Can only be stacked up twice, following procs only reset the timer.

4. Toxin : Toxin damage no longer bypasses shield, but the status effects still do and can only be stacked twice. Following procs only reset the timer.

5. Gas : Can only be stacked twice. Following procs only reset the timer

6. Heat : Acts like viral. Reduced target’s armor by 1% and ramps up to 50% after additional procs. 

41 minutes ago, LostSeeker0 said:

we noticed that Liches,

Wait liches are vulnerable to status? From my experience they are completely immune to it.

Edited by DrivaMain
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18 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

I prefer complete status immunity to be replaced to status resistance. So status weapons have a place against the new wave of enemies without them overpowering crit weapons because some status are outright broken and cheesy and extremely broken when combined with Critical weapons.

Some examples on how status reacts to status resistant enemies.

1. Viral : no longer gives -50% health reduction instantly but instead gives 1% Reduction to health and can be stacked to a cap of 50%.

2. Corrosive : Armor reduction caps out at when target’s armor at 50% of the total armor values. Following procs reset the timer

3. Slash : Can only be stacked up twice, following procs only reset the timer.

4. Toxin : Toxin damage no longer bypasses shield, but the status effects still do and can only be stacked twice. Following procs only reset the timer.

5. Gas : Can only be stacked twice. Following procs only reset the timer

Wait liches are vulnerable to status? From my experience they are completely immune to it.

Hmmm, this could be useful, since One problem that status weapons, especially melee weapons with Condition Overload lose their usefulness completely when they're blocked from doing what they were even designed to do in the first place. At the same time, the status cannot be too weak, such as with Slash and Gas, would still make player favor high critical over high status, so this kind of suggestion may still not persuade players to use status weapon against bosses. As for reduced armor reduction against bosses, keeping it as a nerfed armor reduction is moot when people will just Shattering Impact its armor to zero, or even have a Kavat use Sharpened Claws on the boss, wiping it's armor instantly. There's simply too many things and factors that complicate how to keep it relevant, in which we'd need to carefully think out the time to kill a boss when you pit a weapon rigged to vomit out 7x crit multiplier blows 85% of the time against a build versus a 100% status weapon build concerning changes.

As for the thing about Liches, It's probably me misinterpreting memories, since it was a long day of doing stuff that time with my friends. So yeah, probably wrong, but I am in full agreement we should give status some usefulness against bosses, since demoting a weapon to "flunkie killer" is a pretty bad way to treat status weapons.

If we truly wanna equalize things, we could make the bosses immune to criticals as well, while lowering their armor and health, but I get the feeling many people would hate that.

Edited by LostSeeker0
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3 minutes ago, LostSeeker0 said:

As for reduced armor reduction against bosses, keeping it as a nerfed armor reduction is moot when people will just Shattering Impact its armor to zero, or even have a Kavat use Sharpened Claws on the boss, wiping it's armor instantly.

Knowing DE, they will likely nerf those interactions or make it a partial resistance to it just like they did with melee 3.0 balancing. I mean I don’t get it why a simple cat managed to fully strip a massive eidolon of it’s armor in one swipe.

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I suppose that makes sense. DE has been known for some truly astounding oversights throughout the history of Warframe. Nevertheless, the sheer fact that Status is becoming something that's required to actually kill Exo Grineer in Veil Proxima is something that actually gives status a purpose, yet the meta build I described in the original post was designed to apply just enough status out of sheer amount of blows and then tear them asunder under some very high magnitude criticals. As it is, viral and fire only need to be applied one time in order to begin causing drastic differences in an enemy's time to kill, so high status doesn't even need to be a priority for such things.

If your weapon is lacking in critical potential, it's unfortunately going to suffer in the long run based on critical and status interaction.

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Good point on the status effect, some specialized units ( mostly are bosses ) immune to status effect. I mean it's too extreme, like at least they can take 10-20 % of the effects only for example, blast effect or stagger should reduce their damage aswell for a small debuf like 10-20% plus stack with puncture. And some effects like magnetic, should scramble their accurate also. Since actual bosses for who like to fight like a real ninja as doing bosses solo in sortie. Would know bosses's fatality as the uselessness of many status effects.

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Good point.

Status was always the same, but the one exception was status melee which is carried singlehandedly by condition overload. Not anymore today.

They either need to change status, or give co its own multiplier back... the best way is still, change enermy scaling...

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Bosses are immune to status effects cause obvioulsy they will be even bigger joke to kill than they are now (thats why most of them have even invul stages so you dont complete wipe your bottom with them after 2 shots from fully modded Mk1-Braton).

I agree some of the status effects are kinda useless (Impact,puncture,blast,magnetic for me), but to be honest i dont want DE to make some big changes on them. We play this game like this for so many years, everybody is used to it, if they change stuff around alot the whole meta will be ruined (and dont forget rivens with +/- IPS, also since Fire change, fire is actually nice to have on rivens on some weapons etc.). Also Crit without status is "useless" and viceversa (well there are few exceptions ofc).

Condition overload is still awesome so is Blood Rush i dont see any issue with that (well except that whole melee got nerfed by alot actually, but thats for another topic).

Hunters Munitions was addad cause primaries had no ability to scale (except gas + bane on snipers only). Thats why we can actually froce slash on our primaries now, cause melee was THE weapon of choice for endurance (slash/viral or gas + bane). HM made many primaries being able to push in higher lvls of enemies, without slash and armor scaling we have they were unable to do so before.

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I've found value in every status effect outside Magnetic, Puncture and Impact.

Status Melee also wasn't carried by Condition Overload.

It's quite easy to boost damage output in this game but not status. What destroyed status melee more than the Condition Overload nerf was removing the Elemental weapons. Their proc rates are now diluted with IPS effects that either do nothing in case of Puncture / Impact or need Crit to back them up like Slash.

As example. Lacera was a good weapon using any number of frames with damage amps or stealth multipliers. It spewed Gas + Electric AoE or Striped armor easily while still maintaining competitive flat damage thanks to those damage amps. Doesn't work the other way around and that's what they destroyed when it comes to melee.

Status has always won over Crit eventually outside Infested. That's been the case for years and only changed to due bad design decisions.

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21 hours ago, Benour said:

Bosses are immune to status effects cause obvioulsy they will be even bigger joke to kill than they are now (thats why most of them have even invul stages so you dont complete wipe your bottom with them after 2 shots from fully modded Mk1-Braton).

I agree some of the status effects are kinda useless (Impact,puncture,blast,magnetic for me), but to be honest i dont want DE to make some big changes on them. We play this game like this for so many years, everybody is used to it, if they change stuff around alot the whole meta will be ruined (and dont forget rivens with +/- IPS, also since Fire change, fire is actually nice to have on rivens on some weapons etc.). Also Crit without status is "useless" and viceversa (well there are few exceptions ofc).

Condition overload is still awesome so is Blood Rush i dont see any issue with that (well except that whole melee got nerfed by alot actually, but thats for another topic).

Hunters Munitions was addad cause primaries had no ability to scale (except gas + bane on snipers only). Thats why we can actually froce slash on our primaries now, cause melee was THE weapon of choice for endurance (slash/viral or gas + bane). HM made many primaries being able to push in higher lvls of enemies, without slash and armor scaling we have they were unable to do so before.

Status might make bosses a bit too easy, but then again, that seems like a bad band-aid solution to the problem when we have many weapons that have low critical and high status, invalidating these weapons. And yes, crit with out status, such as the poor Guandao with an abysmal 4% status chance can be pretty ineffective against mobs with high armor mitigation. But, when you truly study how some status effects work, you don't really need 100% status to keep applying procs that are redundant to re-apply repeatedly.

Furthermore, Slash, Gas, Fire, and Toxin are actively amped by criticals, making it very desirable to have high criticals to go along with status. While Status had a hard cap in that we can't go beyond 100% status chance (Which we should actually be allowed to do to land multiple statuses per hit), Critical has no cap, causing us to treat Status as a necessary yet secondary stat.

Compare Tatsu and the new Pennant. Tatsu has a 28% status chance paired with a 16% critical chance and 2.0x critical multiplier, while the Pennant possesses a 10% status chance paired with a 32% critical chance with a 2.4x Critical multiplier. If we were to pair these two up with hybrid builds, which one would win out? The Tatsu will most likely end up falling short due to critical potential while landing quite a few useful status procs to break the enemy's tankiness. Meanwhile we have the Pennant, going full tilt with Berserker and spamming crits, while having gotten off the essential statuses for breaking enemy tankiness, in which the criticals then power through with the enemy dying very quickly all of a sudden.

And this isn't even considering the melee monstrosities that are Destreza Prime, Nikana Prime, Reaper Prime, Kuva Shildeg, and the Gram Prime, all with astoundingly high critical potential while none of these weapons have less than 20% base status chance, enabling them to still pile on status efficiently while murdering mobs with a followup of insane damage criticals that are actually serving as an amp for Condition Overload to do more damage. Critical in your Condition Overload? More likely than you think.

The Prisma Gorgon, one of my longest standing machine gun weapons I've been using as my Primary has performed admirably in wrecking mobs due to its high critical potential, while due to its rapid fire nature will often land the necessary status to break defenses. Weapons such as the Tiberon Prime strike a very keen adjustable balance between status and primary, something that the new Quellor completely fails at due to it's aberrant stats in comparison. The sheer fact they made the Quellor the way it is when the Tiberon Prime exists the way it is shows DE is jarringly out of touch with their own game.

We definitely need both critical and status for doing high end content, but the real problem is the bias of one being more important to amp up over the other. If a weapon doesn't have high critical potential with a modest amount of status, it will underperform compared to these kinds of weapons.

1 hour ago, Xzorn said:

I've found value in every status effect outside Magnetic, Puncture and Impact.

Status Melee also wasn't carried by Condition Overload.

It's quite easy to boost damage output in this game but not status. What destroyed status melee more than the Condition Overload nerf was removing the Elemental weapons. Their proc rates are now diluted with IPS effects that either do nothing in case of Puncture / Impact or need Crit to back them up like Slash.

As example. Lacera was a good weapon using any number of frames with damage amps or stealth multipliers. It spewed Gas + Electric AoE or Striped armor easily while still maintaining competitive flat damage thanks to those damage amps. Doesn't work the other way around and that's what they destroyed when it comes to melee.

Status has always won over Crit eventually outside Infested. That's been the case for years and only changed to due bad design decisions.

Agreed, the introduction of IPS to many pure elemental weapons was indeed a blow to some status weapons, with Silva & Aegis and its prime variant being the only one unaffected surprisingly. Yet weapons like the Lacera also fall prey to being invalidated by the high crit hybrid meta due to having a sore lacking in critical to reinforce the damage that its damage based status applications may land, as well as using Condition Overload as an amp for critical.

Hate to say it, but the new meta has murdered low critical high status weapons.

Edited by LostSeeker0
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12 minutes ago, LostSeeker0 said:

Status might make bosses a bit too easy, but then again, that seems like a bad band-aid solution to the problem when we have many weapons that have low critical and high status, invalidating these weapons. And yes, crit with out status, such as the poor Guandao with an abysmal 4% status chance can be pretty ineffective against mobs with high armor mitigation. But, when you truly study how some status effects work, you don't really need 100% status to keep applying procs that are redundant to re-apply repeatedly.

Furthermore, Slash, Gas, Fire, and Toxin are actively amped by criticals, making it very desirable to have high criticals to go along with status. While Status had a hard cap in that we can't go beyond 100% status chance (Which we should actually be allowed to do to land multiple statuses per hit), Critical has no cap, causing us to treat Status as a necessary yet secondary stat.

Compare Tatsu and the new Pennant. Tatsu has a 28% status chance paired with a 16% critical chance and 2.0x critical multiplier, while the Pennant possesses a 10% status chance paired with a 32% critical chance with a 2.4x Critical multiplier. If we were to pair these two up with hybrid builds, which one would win out? The Tatsu will most likely end up falling short due to critical potential while landing quite a few useful status procs to break the enemy's tankiness. Meanwhile we have the Pennant, going full tilt with Berserker and spamming crits, while having gotten off the essential statuses for breaking enemy tankiness, in which the criticals then power through with the enemy dying very quickly all of a sudden.

And this isn't even considering the melee monstrosities that are Destreza Prime, Nikana Prime, Reaper Prime, Kuva Shildeg, and the Gram Prime, all with astoundingly high critical potential while none of these weapons have less than 20% base status chance, enabling them to still pile on status efficiently while murdering mobs with a followup of insane damage criticals that are actually serving as an amp for Condition Overload to do more damage. Critical in your Condition Overload? More likely than you think.

The Prisma Gorgon, one of my longest standing machine gun weapons I've been using as my Primary has performed admirably in wrecking mobs due to its high critical potential, while due to its rapid fire nature will often land the necessary status to break defenses. Weapons such as the Tiberon Prime strike a very keen adjustable balance between status and primary, something that the new Quellor completely fails at due to it's aberrant stats in comparison. The sheer fact they made the Quellor the way it is when the Tiberon Prime exists the way it is shows DE is jarringly out of touch with their own game.

We definitely need both critical and status for doing high end content, but the real problem is the bias of one being more important to amp up over the other. If a weapon doesn't have high critical potential with a modest amount of status, it will underperform compared to these kinds of weapons.

Agreed, the introduction of IPS to many pure elemental weapons was indeed a blow to some status weapons, with Silva & Aegis and its prime variant being the only one unaffected surprisingly. Yet weapons like the Lacera also fall prey to being invalidated by the high crit hybrid meta due to having a sore lacking in critical to reinforce the damage that its damage based status applications may land, as well as using Condition Overload as an amp for critical.

Hate to say it, but the new meta has murdered low critical high status weapons.

First i never said you need 100% status on melee, also i know how stuff works dont worry (which you apparently dont by starting this thread) 

Second you sounds like you trying to teach me something, yeah bruh i have 6k hours played on steam i think im fine. But thx for this huge paragraph that i barely read, cause you stating just well known stuff anyway. Read my post again there is explanation why you are not allowed to apply status effects on bosses in this game.

Obviously crit/status hybrids are best combination, who would though right....?

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21 hours ago, Benour said:

Bosses are immune to status effects cause obvioulsy they will be even bigger joke to kill than they are now (thats why most of them have even invul stages so you dont complete wipe your bottom with them after 2 shots from fully modded Mk1-Braton).

High critical stats weapons like the Rubico Prime can one shot those bosses with no effort while poor braton already ran out of ammo before even damaging 1 part of the boss. The Crit weapons already made them a big joke. 
 

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1 minute ago, DrivaMain said:

High critical stats weapons like the Rubico Prime can one shot those bosses with no effort while poor braton already ran out of ammo before even damaging 1 part of the boss. The Crit weapons already made them a big joke. 
 

That braton was meant as sarcasm/joke. And yes you can melt bosses on star chart with that weapon if you use rhino/chroma without any issue.

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3 minutes ago, Benour said:

First i never said you need 100% status on melee, also i know how stuff works dont worry (which you apparently dont by starting this thread) 

Second you sounds like you trying to teach me something, yeah bruh i have 6k hours played on steam i think im fine. But thx for this huge paragraph that i barely read, cause you stating just well known stuff anyway. Read my post again there is explanation why you are not allowed to apply status effects on bosses in this game.

Obviously crit/status hybrids are best combination, who would though right....?

Sigh, sorry for stating the obvious, but my point was never to point out that this was the best way to go, but how it's cause a large amount of our weapons in game to have lost their purpose for existing simply due to stat deficits, other than to be Mastery Fodder. DE should never deprecate their own content like this, since it goes to show that they might not care much for the state of the weapons we use, plus I'm still insulted the Quellor was considered a good idea by DE...

And yes, Status would make bosses too easy in their current state too easy, yet there needs to be another way for Status to be useful in boss fights other than the cop-out decision to make them immune completely. Maybe give them much bigger health pools with lower armor similar to how they had to fix Railjack enemy balance in Veil Proxima? They even had to tone down the effectiveness of IPS damage procs there since Phaedras were pulverizing everything a little TOO well..

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1 minute ago, LostSeeker0 said:

Sigh, sorry for stating the obvious, but my point was never to point out that this was the best way to go, but how it's cause a large amount of our weapons in game to have lost their purpose for existing simply due to stat deficits, other than to be Mastery Fodder. DE should never deprecate their own content like this, since it goes to show that they might not care much for the state of the weapons we use, plus I'm still insulted the Quellor was considered a good idea by DE...

And yes, Status would make bosses too easy in their current state too easy, yet there needs to be another way for Status to be useful in boss fights other than the cop-out decision to make them immune completely. Maybe give them much bigger health pools with lower armor similar to how they had to fix Railjack enemy balance in Veil Proxima? They even had to tone down the effectiveness of IPS damage procs there since Phaedras were pulverizing everything a little TOO well..

Yeah you could make bosses huge bullet sponges would that solve anything tho? Also i agree many weapons from past are mastery fodder but thats how this game works, at start they were shy to put "big numbers" on weapons but as the game grew/progressed they had to start making better and better weapons (i remember when orange/red crits meant something and everybody was like "red crit!" KreyGasm nowaday if you dont red crit you "suck") Also content got "harder" so we need "better" weapons.

Only solution to this is buff the god forgotten old weapons and just buff their stats directly. There are MANY weapons that no amount of % on riven will save.

Also status is still super useful so is crit. And yes as i said hybrids are best (well there are some "status only" weapons that are amazing too but mostly just with riven tbh).

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2 minutes ago, Benour said:

Yeah you could make bosses huge bullet sponges would that solve anything tho? Also i agree many weapons from past are mastery fodder but thats how this game works, at start they were shy to put "big numbers" on weapons but as the game grew/progressed they had to start making better and better weapons (i remember when orange/red crits meant something and everybody was like "red crit!" KreyGasm nowaday if you dont red crit you "suck") Also content got "harder" so we need "better" weapons.

Only solution to this is buff the god forgotten old weapons and just buff their stats directly. There are MANY weapons that no amount of % on riven will save.

Also status is still super useful so is crit. And yes as i said hybrids are best (well there are some "status only" weapons that are amazing too but mostly just with riven tbh).

Can't deny that making bosses health sponges might not be the best solution, but we need something that can allow status to actually matter against bosses. Otherwise, it's going full critical that's the only thing that matters.

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21 minutes ago, LostSeeker0 said:

Can't deny that making bosses health sponges might not be the best solution, but we need something that can allow status to actually matter against bosses. Otherwise, it's going full critical that's the only thing that matters.

Yup thats right all you need is lots of crit and proper element (for eidolons even -status on rivens doesnt matter). And there are many bosses that are prone to status, not all of them are straight immune to status and you can stack even bleeds on them in invul stages (Vay Hek, Kela, Sargas Ruk,Sergeant,Alad V, Hyena pack, Phorid, Muta Alad all can be procced with status im 99% sure. And the ones that have invul stages you just stack tons of bleed procs with lets say rhino roar buff and they just instagib when their invul stage ends).

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On 2020-01-22 at 7:14 AM, DrivaMain said:

I prefer complete status immunity to be replaced to status resistance. So status weapons have a place against the new wave of enemies without them overpowering crit weapons because some status are outright broken and cheesy and extremely broken when combined with Critical weapons.

Some examples on how status reacts to status resistant enemies.

1. Viral : no longer gives -50% health reduction instantly but instead gives 1% Reduction to health and can be stacked to a cap of 50%.

2. Corrosive : Armor reduction caps out at when target’s armor at 50% of the total armor values. Following procs reset the timer

3. Slash : Can only be stacked up twice, following procs only reset the timer.

4. Toxin : Toxin damage no longer bypasses shield, but the status effects still do and can only be stacked twice. Following procs only reset the timer.

5. Gas : Can only be stacked twice. Following procs only reset the timer

6. Heat : Acts like viral. Reduced target’s armor by 1% and ramps up to 50% after additional procs. 

Wait liches are vulnerable to status? From my experience they are completely immune to it.

This will be a major nerf to damage, not a re-balance of status. This is not a good idea.

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3 minutes ago, (PS4)thegarada said:

This will be a major nerf to damage, not a re-balance of status. This is not a good idea.

I think what they're saying would be to have statuses affect bosses to lesser degrees, while they still affect normal mobs as-is. Which would be a good idea overall, and would keep status relevant in bossfights.

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Weirdly harkens me back to a discussion I had with someone about removing the "chance" parts of critical and status, having the status stance be a measure of how many shots it'd take to apply a status and crit being isolated to weakpoints...hm...

Part of me wonders if we may have too many proc types? There's multiple considerations when it comes to rebalancing status effects, from efficacy against bosses and across factions and stackability. Magnetic, for example, could find a bigger cross-faction use if it generated a bullet attractor effect. But then one has to give Void damage a different effect—unless we were to drop it. Fewer elements means more possible options for the ones we have without major overlap. (Or maybe we need to consider more overlap...?)

There might be other ways to shuffle proc effects so that, though we'd have fewer, the ones we'd end up with would each be top notch. And the result could be more intuitive. For example, if we had heat, electric, and toxin, we could match those up to Grineer, Corpus, and Infested in terms of which faction(s) they're best against, instead of breaking down by sometimes obscure health types.

Something to consider, perhaps.

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On 2020-01-09 at 6:46 PM, LostSeeker0 said:

One of the most jarring aspects of Status is how many affects simply do not even scale. Let's examine all of the statuses from the Wiki:

  • Cold: Reduces Movement Speed, Fire Rate, and Attack Speed to 50% for 6 seconds. Not only does it not contribute to a faster kill time, but this effect does not stack, making its use on a high status weapon redundant when a high speed critical weapon can apply it just as effectively.

Just to note, before DE nerfed slows, cold was actually useful (not truly for faster kill time, but for kill safety with proc setups), since it used to give condition duration equal to the slow too, same as all full model slows/was more along viral in terms of "even if it doesnt stack, its still useful and want it to proc early and keep it up".

Edited by Andele3025
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On 2020-01-25 at 2:39 AM, Andele3025 said:

Just to note, before DE nerfed slows, cold was actually useful (not truly for faster kill time, but for kill safety with proc setups), since it used to give condition duration equal to the slow too, same as all full model slows/was more along viral in terms of "even if it doesnt stack, its still useful and want it to proc early and keep it up".

Huh, didn't know Cold doubled proc duration in the past. Sadly doesn't matter now due to the change.

In regards to procs like viral, cold, and impact, they could do some stacking differently, such as for the statuses not meant to stack, repeated procs would simply extend the duration of the proc. If you land repeated impact procs, the enemy might even stay staggered as you get close to knocking their lights out.

But then again, it'd potentially be a moot point to stack the status duration sky high if the enemy is going to die soon anyways...

I think DE needs to look at the player's perspective at what is useful and what isn't, what is essential and what is redundant. As good as DE is at feedback, they still seem a little out of touch with how the game is played. If one of the DE devs did min-maxing with the game they helped build, they could quickly zero in on problem areas and rebalance them. (Though this could possibly be a big if, not sure anyone in DE has that sort of mindset to try to break the very game they made to correct issues)

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