Actual Auction house is what we need

[ssxtriki]

4 hours ago, SPEKTRE76 said:

I literally hear the sound of vomit when I read this. It's not just about Rivens, it's other stuff too. When I see a Loki Prime for 450pl I laugh. I have never bought a Riven in my life. I only have 6 of them that I have popped already. It appears yo have failed to grasp my point. You and your other (PS4) tagged buddy, starting to notice a pattern here.......I still stand by my statement that we need an auction house. And BTW, I don't see anyone clamoring to spend 6000 plat on a MOD. Let alone a 350pl Ember Prime. Hell I even saw a 400pl Mag Prime in there. I'm almost willing to bet you are a "Juicer".

Loki for 450? lol thats cheap compared when he was vaulted and cost 1000p full set.... Ember prime also when was vaulted and reworked and cost like 1000-2000 plat, because there was a demand of ppl and not enough to supply them...  when New Prime frames and weapons come out the prices are high because there is high Demand...

Its Simple Economics... do you know it?

i have played every mmo or diablo like with AH there was and AH is a bad idea if items do not degrade, ppl spam items to it and prices drop to literally crap worthy, bots ruin the economic because its not worth farming just to buy it from AH,

Warframe is Looter Shooter if you buy all the loot from AH with 1 button, there is no content for you to play or farm... why do you want to skip the game and get to the end when theres nothing at the end?

AH would ruin and prices would drop to 1p, some part in warframe.market already are that low, 

ppl with experience are telling you this and there are games with examples, yet you just ignore all of this and continue to "I WANT AH"

i want a proper end game better than your AH, there is tons of stuff that needs fixing, reworking, new content and your asking for a system that already works as it is...

how ignorant can you be?

Edited January 28, 2020 by ssxtriki

[SPEKTRE76]

2000 for Ember Prime? I got her for 80 plat, LOL. How ignorant are you then LOLOLOLOLOL.

 

If you guys want to keep flipping from App to App and from Website to Website BMG.

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

6 hours ago, SPEKTRE76 said:

Nonsense, have you been to the Trade Chat lately? And you don't get to see who has what in terms of credit until you're in the trade window, just FYI. You keep telling everyone the AH is a bad idea with no argument nor a suggestion of anything better. 

As an avid trader during what I could say the peak of warframe ps4 trade chat pulling at least  100-300p per day the trade chat is fine as is. With the current state of it it could use some qol changes such as possibly separating wts and wtb chats but other then small things like that an auction house is not optimal for how warframe does trading. 

 

Plat is a premium currency and the free economy that warframe revolves around with trading means that an auction house would deflate common items and even prime parts but rarer items (sledge hammer pathocyst acolyte mods certain arcanes and yes rivens or anything with an rng value that can interest people in getting a deserible roll) inflate drastically.

And Plat outside of discounts have a set value at the time being  for example 75 Plat is =$4.99

 what this leads to is a very very predatory market if an auction house was implemented. A prime with its weapons on release $80 and devalues drastically during its prime access and even much more after due to people farming sets etc and more. With a 24/7 auction house allowing players to host items even offline these items that are relatively easy to farm get devalued almost within the same day allowing those who are lucky enough to get a set upon release even MORE Plat because of demand but anyone within I'd say the next 8-9 hours to be stuck with significantly less then usual. Not only devaluing said item faster but also less Plat will be in circulation.

Frames worth 20 Plat? Sounds nice and all but something like the war and rivens would skyrocket even more and would force players to buy more Plat to get these items if they chose not to farm or can't get a desired roll on said riven. Players owning way more Plat within these corners even more incentivizing what you guys call "the riven mafia" and putting less and less Plat into circulation because if you think 1.1k is bad for that beefy ignis riven imagine 9k you Said you don't buy rivens nor care for them in trade which is great.

Not every player is like you 

An auction house would do nothing but cause the devaluing of many items and inflation of already "overpriced" items you complain about that aren't as easy to farm. If trading was credit based it would actually be a sound idea but it's not Plat is a currency directly tied to ones want to spend money. Playing with a economy  tied into ones wallet isn't very smart 

I also see you acting very mature in this thread/s grow up and learn to have a conversation dude. 

 

[ssxtriki]

1 hour ago, SPEKTRE76 said:

2000 for Ember Prime? I got her for 80 plat, LOL. How ignorant are you then LOLOLOLOLOL.

 

If you guys want to keep flipping from App to App and from Website to Website BMG.

"when he was vaulted" 

Loki Prime

05/17/2016

Ember Prime

10/06/2015

when did you start playing? yesterday?

you did not even playing the game then... so please stop talking about stuff you do not know 🙂  ty

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

59 minutes ago, ssxtriki said:

"when he was vaulted" 

Loki Prime

05/17/2016

Ember Prime

10/06/2015

when did you start playing? yesterday?

you did not even playing the game then... so please stop talking about stuff you do not know 🙂  ty

Remember Rhino prices 

[EmailSoup]

14 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Me too, but you still seem to be several posts behind, let's try to help you get up to speed. 

 

Firstly, that's a very odd worldview you have. "Fair price" is an odd term and will always depend on both parties agreeing.  It's not something that you can dictate unilaterally. It's obvious that the sellers you've been in contact with, disagree with you about what that "fair price" is. 

Perhaps you should tell us what you are writing in chat to ask for the item. Is it something along the lines of "wtb ballistica prime lower limb 2 plat"? 

The auction house you are looking for, would mean that practically every item will be selling for about that. This makes it harder and harder for the free players to get any plat from trading. Recall that they're still a major part of the success of the game. 

Thank you for taking the time to do that,

 but now .

i want my auctions so I can get my ballistics prime easier. But also because it's essential to my warframe experience and until I get my mastery from the ballistica I will keep asking for an auction house. I think it's awsome and do want it but also it'll help playerbase around the world

I am also a free player but alas, probably not relevant.

Edited January 28, 2020 by EmailSoup
grammar

[EmailSoup]

14 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Me too, but you still seem to be several posts behind, let's try to help you get up to speed. 

 

Firstly, that's a very odd worldview you have. "Fair price" is an odd term and will always depend on both parties agreeing.  It's not something that you can dictate unilaterally. It's obvious that the sellers you've been in contact with, disagree with you about what that "fair price" is. 

Perhaps you should tell us what you are writing in chat to ask for the item. Is it something along the lines of "wtb ballistica prime lower limb 2 plat"? 

The auction house you are looking for, would mean that practically every item will be selling for about that. This makes it harder and harder for the free players to get any plat from trading. Recall that they're still a major part of the success of the game. 

I was typing "I would like to buy a ballistic and prime please, I have some platinums in my inventory" and then I would get "selling ballistica 300 plat." And it's a bad system.

 

edit from mobile 

Edited January 28, 2020 by EmailSoup

[EmailSoup]

14 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Me too, but you still seem to be several posts behind, let's try to help you get up to speed. 

 

Firstly, that's a very odd worldview you have. "Fair price" is an odd term and will always depend on both parties agreeing.  It's not something that you can dictate unilaterally. It's obvious that the sellers you've been in contact with, disagree with you about what that "fair price" is. 

Perhaps you should tell us what you are writing in chat to ask for the item. Is it something along the lines of "wtb ballistica prime lower limb 2 plat"? 

The auction house you are looking for, would mean that practically every item will be selling for about that. This makes it harder and harder for the free players to get any plat from trading. Recall that they're still a major part of the success of the game. 

Also I got plat the other day by selling a prime junk". I think it's fairly easy for a new player to obtain platinum.

EDIT: I know you think it's odd but that's my world. 

Edited January 28, 2020 by EmailSoup

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

22 minutes ago, EmailSoup said:

Thank you for taking the time to do that,

I have trouble reading but now .

i want my auctions so I can get my ballistics prime easier. But also because it's essential to my warframe experience and until I get my mastery from the ballistica I will keep asking for an auction house. I think it's awsome and do want it but also it'll help playerbase around the world

 

21 minutes ago, EmailSoup said:

I was typing "I would like to buy a ballistic and prime please, I have some platinums in my inventory" and then I would get "selling ballistica 300 plat." And it's a bad system.

 

20 minutes ago, EmailSoup said:

Also I got plat the other day by selling a prime junk". I think it's fairly easy for a new player to obtain platinum.

 

 

Three separate posts to answer the content of a single one? That's an impressive amount of lag that you have there... Wait a minute... That's not how I this works, that's not how any of this works. 

Let's try it again:

14 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Perhaps you should tell us what you are writing in chat to ask for the item. Is it something along the lines of "wtb ballistica prime lower limb 2 plat"? 

That's actually both a question of what you've been doing so we can see what went wrong and a suggestion for how to do it right. 

You say you wrote "wtb something, I haz plat!" and got offered the item for unreasonable prices by greedy people. That's not surprising. 

Try it the way I wrote it. Since it's a single item and you'll be using up a trade you may need to offer more, but that's between you and the seller. 

And yes prime junk is usually an easy sale. But it's also because they're asking for the least amount that you can reasonably expect to pay for an item. They're typically common as mud and so not worth trying to sell for "full price". 

By creating an auction house, you would make far more items "common as mud" just based on the sheer number of potential sellers. This will drive prices on all such items down, down, down. Soon items that regularly go for 10p will also only be worth a couple of plat. 

That's going to make it really unpleasant for the free players who are just trying to buy some slots or potatoes. They make up the huge majority of players. Not a good move. 

[EmailSoup]

I am a part of those free players. I find trading to be difficult (as I gave my ballistica prime reference)

I not have one because of it.

 

edit forgot to quote 

Also it wasn't lag. I am on mobile (the reason why I haven't been bothered to actually take time to quote your things properly when I reply as I did with other posts on this forum)

Edited January 28, 2020 by EmailSoup
Thank you for repeatedly trying to make me understand. I think I'll get it eventually (being serious, not sarcasm /s (not))

[Chappie]

I would say "no" to any form of automated system or AH.

I pretty much stay logged into WF 24/7 and play on average 1 hour a day.   Much less now with my current hobby (Ironman training).   As a result of this I'm sitting on ~5 sets of every prime item and still have bought EVERYTHING from baro.   I cannot say i'm the only person in this boat.  I would be willing to bet that a very small percentage of people in this game could provide the items to nearly everyone in this game.   If you took away any form of friction, prices would crash.   Now...from a "consumer" point of view..that is great.   From the health of DE and driving plat sales it would put them into a trajectory they may not be able to correct from. 

I'm not saying it is impossible...I am saying from a business point of view it would in the same category of "hold my beer, watch this".     There is just soooo many examples of AH's going tits up vs being a glorious bastion of happiness for all.  

Maybe I've drunk too much of the adulting kool-aid.

 

Edited January 28, 2020 by Chappie1975

[Mest_Gryder]

vor 17 Stunden schrieb (PS4)guzmantt1977:

Can't keep your own story straight? Always a bad sign. Worse if you are going to advocate for a change, try to pick one that won't hurt the game. 

And by hurt the game, you need to understand that just because you and I may not make much use of the trade, it's still a very important part of the developers being able to keep the lights on.

So if you want to keep playing warframe, yes killing the economy is going to affect you, regardless of how much trading you do. 

I see many people who are not able to grasp simple economic principles, and think that their own greed is a valid reason to ask for bad changes. 

Try picking up an entry level economics textbook at your local library. 

Try using a small number of simple positive filters. Focus on a few items you want to deal with at a time, instead of trying to see all of the things you think will make you rich overnight. 

But yes by all means request the ability to easily resend your previous messages in feedback if you like. The other bits, not great ideas. 

How about, "what you're asking would bring in less cash for the developers, so since cash is king, and money talks, you get to take a walk"? 

I do not know how to snip every part of someones comment, as I also see it as very painstackingly.

Simple economc principle:
You are right that there will be a DEFLATION of the market when the supply is higher than demand. The tradable item prices are cheaper already than never before, BUT this is not affecting the official market items, which are at the same time the most important supplies, such as slots, boosters and so on. These will never change, and that's why it will never hurt DE, but even benefiting them. F2P players will have a harder time to earn plat, because of the deflation. They will have a higher need to buy plat, which is good right? Right, because that is the conclusion of the free market and it will not change, when we improve the trading system, it is only speeding up the process where we already head to.
To say, that the competition grows when there is a more trade friendly system, is not an argument.
 
At this point you should had several the chances to suggest for actual improvements, but self obsorbed as you are, you only caring about your point of view, your profit, and your ridiculous arguments. Yes, there are things that should not be there, like AFK trading. I also admit there are things that already work well, such has the need 2 players have to meet.

But isn't it very delusional to say "try using a small number of simple positive filters". That is a joke right? That shows you never use trade chat at all or you are ignorant.
When you use simple positive filters, it does not guarantee you that you will not have a messy trade chat. People write WTB A,AB,X,Y and Z WTS K,M,B,
then your positive was for example WTS M and you see nevertheless THE WHOLE WALL OF TEXT because it was contained in it and the worst part is, you see him just selling the same.

A better trading system will not change a thing. It is a free market. Deal with it. And no, the developers will actually get more Plat, because the F2P playerbase will earn plat harder, so they are more lickely spending real money. Process that.
Everyone can easily obtain relics, that is no secret. Tradable items and their prices do not affect the devs, otherwise they would have cared about that or did something to balance that out, they did not. Hence they don't care. Only the official market matters to them.
Once again. Pushing platinum just between players is not benefiting DE, they Platinum needs to be spend on the official market, to create a need to buy more plat.

I am not defending the AH concept, but I want to have a trading system which is less year 2013 and more efficient.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

23 minutes ago, Mest_Gryder said:

Simple economc principle:
You are right that there will be a DEFLATION of the market when the supply is higher than demand. The tradable item prices are cheaper already than never before, BUT this is not affecting the official market items, which are at the same time the most important supplies, such as slots, boosters and so on. These will never change, and that's why it will never hurt DE, but even benefiting them. F2P players will have a harder time to earn plat, because of the deflation. They will have a higher need to buy plat, which is good right? Right, because that is the conclusion of the free market and it will not change, when we improve the trading system, it is only speeding up the process where we already head to.
To say, that the competition grows when there is a more trade friendly system, is not an argument.

That's as silly as saying "a downturn in the economy will not affect the government because taxes remain the same". 

If people are finding it harder to get plat, how exactly do you think that they will still be able to buy as many slots, potatoes, boosters, and cosmetics?

And no, f2p players aren't suddenly going to say "oh no, I need more plat, let me just go ahead and buy a few hundred dollars worth. They're playing for free. 

Seriously, think about what you are saying for a moment and you'll see that it is not making any sense. 

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

1 hour ago, Mest_Gryder said:

F2P players will have a harder time to earn plat, because of the deflation. They will have a higher need to buy plat, which is good right? Right, because that is the conclusion of the free market and it will not change, when we improve the trading system, it is only speeding up the process where we already head to.
To say, that the competition grows when there is a more trade friendly system, is not an argument.
 

Thats not okay. If a ftp player can't easily trade for Plat what makes you think they'll fell more inclined to buy platinum. The new player experience is very bad as is players starting and getting into trading seeing the value of such would instantly dismiss the game as pay to win or trading ineffective and make this game look completly scummy from a consumer standpoint to many. Am auction house does not work for every game and especially since it wasn't implemented from the beginning. Tell me how do yo expect a complete shift in an economy to go with a currency that has a set value to real money in a video game? Competition doesn't grow in the way that youd hope yes deflation happens but you all ignore inflation of other items. Read my other post on the topic bro

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

2 hours ago, EmailSoup said:

I am a part of those free players. I find trading to be difficult (as I gave my ballistica prime reference)

I not have one because of it.

You had problems because you wrote a WTB that didn't give a price range, and greedy people who saw it tried to take advantage of you. 

That has nothing to do with not having an auction house. 

Try writing it but put "2 plat" instead of "I haz plat". 

[EmailSoup]

55 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

You had problems because you wrote a WTB that didn't give a price range, and greedy people who saw it tried to take advantage of you. 

That has nothing to do with not having an auction house. 

Try writing it but put "2 plat" instead of "I haz plat". 

But I do haz plat!

That is the problem.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

2 minutes ago, EmailSoup said:

But I do haz plat!

That is the problem.

Do you intend to give them all of the plat? Do you plan on giving them any amount of plat that they ask for? Or do you plan on giving them an amount between 2-5 plat for the item? 

If it's that last one, I advise you to notify them of your price range, which is probably pretty reasonable given the item you are asking for. 

 

[bananacat89]

We needed one 5 years ago. 

[cmacq]

With the ballistica prime set currently listed on warframe.market for 30 plat why is it we "need" an auction house again?

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

4 minutes ago, cmacq said:

With the ballistica prime set currently listed on warframe.market for 30 plat why is it we "need" an auction house again?

It's cheaper in game 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

4 minutes ago, cmacq said:

With the ballistica prime set currently listed on warframe.market for 30 plat why is it we "need" an auction house again?

He just wants the lower limb. Pretty sure that qualifies as junk. 

[Midarc]

I don’t have a great deal of experience of trade systems In games, but a lot of the arguments I’ve seen here focus on the economy impact via selling and that got me thinking about whether the buying element would be a good area to focus on.

SWG used to have (along side an auction house) vending machines and npcs you could hire to sell your goods at a set price. 

Ignoring the AH element right now, what impact would a vendor or broker system have? 

I don’t mean listing items with maroo though it’d be nice if she had a little more going on in her bazaar. 

I suspect that’d just be an auction house with extra steps.

what if she acted as a broker? 

Accepting and acting upon buy orders only. A different npc working for her, each in a different corner of the bazaar for each item category.

You list the desire for an item, commit the plat which she holds and if another player fulfils this, hands them the plat after taking a fee in credits.

 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

32 minutes ago, Midarc said:

I don’t have a great deal of experience of trade systems In games, but a lot of the arguments I’ve seen here focus on the economy impact via selling and that got me thinking about whether the buying element would be a good area to focus on.

SWG used to have (along side an auction house) vending machines and npcs you could hire to sell your goods at a set price. 

Ignoring the AH element right now, what impact would a vendor or broker system have? 

I don’t mean listing items with maroo though it’d be nice if she had a little more going on in her bazaar. 

I suspect that’d just be an auction house with extra steps.

what if she acted as a broker? 

Accepting and acting upon buy orders only. A different npc working for her, each in a different corner of the bazaar for each item category.

You list the desire for an item, commit the plat which she holds and if another player fulfils this, hands them the plat after taking a fee in credits.

 

Like you suspected, auction house with more steps. It's been suggested a million times in a million ways but they all boil down to the exact same thing. 

[EmailSoup]

Okay, I'm actually starting to annoy myself

What started off as playing devil's advocate (in a way that was completely serious, to have a fun discussion to pass the time, mind you) turned into me losing a few brain cells, and has spiraled into people thinking I actually need a ballistica prime

First off, and I don't think this is relevant at all, but I'll say it anyway: I've already leveled and deleted my ballistica prime. I didn't like it. I actually have a second set in the foundry because I'm a collector. I didn't need to trade for it, but if I did, there are plenty of low-end prices on warframe.market I could use. In fact, nobody ever buys this thing. I could probably find one in trade chat for cheaper with the filter.

And no, I don't seriously think we need an "auction house." I wasn't lying when I said I don't trade much, but that doesn't mean I'd want to ruin the experience for everyone who does like to trade. Why would I want to force a new system upon people who already use the current system, and successfully so? Nobody should advocate to harm other player's experience just because they don't play that gamemode/use that mechanic/etc. Unless there is something inherently wrong with it to the point where it's actually a problem. There's literally nothing wrong with the trade chat. It kind of sucks sometimes (due to the people, not the chat's existence) but that comes with the territory of being a chat.

A simple example that many of you could probably relate to; I have dozens of duplicate sets of primes, corrupted mods, arby mods, etc. I'm not even that high level, at MR 20-21ish. (I forget.) If we were to get an "Auction house," I would be able to just instantly list all of my items for 1 plat. I wasn't doing anything with them anyway, so what's the harm? I'd probably get an instant 100-200 plat from that. But at the same time I would instantaneously depreciate the value of all of those items. Even with severe limits (daily listing limits similarly to daily trade limits) you'd still see thousands of listings like this every day. Players offloading their entire inventories and destroying the market within seconds of the system's addition. It would be insanely easy for a player with a decent playtime to drop the median established price of any item single-handedly, and even easier for a new player to buy 10 corrupted mods with their starting plat. Stuff like potatoes would seem daunting to a new player at 20 plat, when you could just go get blind rage for 1 plat.

It would actually harm new/free players, because now they can't sell their derelict vault mods for decent amounts of plat, for example. They would have to rummage through their rivens and try to make a decent sale off that, which is not the best strategy. Rivens with specifically decent-good stats and actually unobtainable mods like primed chamber would be the only things left that have any actual value. It's a hypothetical, but it's also a scary possibility. Stay mindful that this isn't the only reason an "auction house" would be bad. There are many other reasons, this is just one I thought of on the spot.

I tried coming up with reasons why an "auction house" would be a good idea, I honestly couldn't. There are barely any upsides to something like that. 

I'm not very knowledgeable on the subject, admittedly, but there are many very detailed explanations as to why it would do way more harm then good from various people on this very thread. I'm gonna log off before I cause more brain damage to myself

However I would be very interested to see if anyone has a good reason for an "auction house" to exist. I unironically, unsarcastically, seriously, would like to hear it.

 

[Borg1611]

41 minutes ago, Midarc said:

I don’t have a great deal of experience of trade systems In games, but a lot of the arguments I’ve seen here focus on the economy impact via selling and that got me thinking about whether the buying element would be a good area to focus on.

SWG used to have (along side an auction house) vending machines and npcs you could hire to sell your goods at a set price. 

Ignoring the AH element right now, what impact would a vendor or broker system have? 

I don’t mean listing items with maroo though it’d be nice if she had a little more going on in her bazaar. 

I suspect that’d just be an auction house with extra steps.

what if she acted as a broker? 

Accepting and acting upon buy orders only. A different npc working for her, each in a different corner of the bazaar for each item category.

You list the desire for an item, commit the plat which she holds and if another player fulfils this, hands them the plat after taking a fee in credits.

 

I think we need a system with buy and sell orders, but no bidding. Just set prices. Buy orders only wouldn't really work that well for things like Rivens where you have multiple factors like the weapon it's for, the number of cycles it's already been through and the stats and the stat ranges. I think the GW2 trade center is a good example of doing buy and sell orders well. 

I also don't think that would drive all prices into the ground as some players fear if each player had a limited number of slots to put items up (particularly since they're already fairly aggressive against trading with yourself so it wouldn't be easy to bypass with multiple accounts). Players with higher value items would focus on those, leaving cheaper prime parts as an avenue to plat for newer players. edit: and things like syndicate bought items. 

Consumables or items with charges could potentially create markets for a resource/crafting trade market also that could maintain value longer than if we only focused on craft it once items like frames, weapons and ship parts or gather it once items like mods. We already have some examples of that in-game, though they aren't used enough currently to really create that market (maybe?). If resources were available for P2P trade those kinds of items could be used more frequently + they could add new things in that category to give you more options in using them regularly. There'd probably be a lot of varied opinions on whether or not they should go there or how they should adjust existing consumables but if you look at something like an MMO, consumable markets are really a key part in making a resource market function and offer a lot of opportunities in crafting and resource gathering as a source of income.

I'll also add that there are probably a lot of players like myself who don't trade currently much at all because I hate trade systems that are out of date and inconvenient and require third party sites/tools to function. I'm not anti-trade, I'm just anti-inconvenient outdated garbage trade systems, so I would trade more if a better system were available. That means there would be a bunch of people who don't already have all their off-faction augments/weapons or are lacking arcane sets despite being higher MR and having thousands of hours played or who have never bought a riven. It's really hard to say how much supply would go up compared to demand. I think in the short term at the very least, demand would actually go up a lot more than supply, particularly for rarer items.

Edited January 28, 2020 by Borg1611