Actual Auction house is what we need

[Avienas]

1 hour ago, veryhighcholesterol said:

The last thing this game needs is an auction house, especially after the riven illuminati got semlar banned. The plat barons would just corner all the markets and everything would be outrageously expensive.

Welp time to stir this damn flame`fest again. There is a reason why i moved away from the Market board suggestions is because people who moan and cry like its some terrorism act. Which just outright lead to me leaning more for sub-channels for market chat or at the very least force people to use auto words with either 2 sub channels or required to put WTB or WTS before it as a mandatory `listing` sort of selection element.

Mainly in order to force people to stop spamming messy text messages, trolls messages and to straight up keep the messages organized. Which is still going to require likely some messy text, still have that 1~2 minute wait timer to prevent people from spamming them (though repeat message would likel need to be disabled). But at the very least the fiascos with coupons, overly ridiculous riven text requests, nudes, `wtb plat` demands and so on could be trimmed a bit. But i still would like to say the usual head`aches with market chat will be present, just that filters might actually be able to work more properly when people have to use a limited dictionary of items instead of typing half jibberish often, though clearly D.E. would need to make more of these item links actually work.

 

Granted, a small silly thing is values are already dropping quite alot still even with no structural changes to market chat, except the cancer we call riven mods still flipping the bird against what all other items are doing, aka those same items that would cause people to stir up `mafia` situations via tracker bots and would threaten a public service provided to the community to malicious report it to get it shut down. Which honestly, if the argument is that values are only stable because market chat is such a mess to deal with, then you might as well be arguing that D.E. should never of put the filter system in place. Never the less, its the same situation as all the `island content`, no one wants to have to deal with it but they are basically forced to revisit that island as a mandatory bit due to how much warframe overly relies on platinum or most players are clucked with very bad systems.

I mean, can anyone even comfortably say they can get thru the majority of warframe content without making use of any platinum at all without any major pitfalls such as forma, potatoes and slots? Very sure they can`t deny the huge dependency on market chat, despite the toxic elements that are present amongst it.

So yeah, auction house may not be the `best solution`, but that is why i am simply going to root for an actual change in dated content structures, such as market chat having something done to it, then continue letting it be the 2nd region chat. Where i rather try to keep my visits to it a few times every 3 months and try to keep them as short as possible too.

[Mest_Gryder]

vor 9 Stunden schrieb TearsOfTomorrow:

This is flat-out false, by the way. I am shocked by how many people fail to understand this simple point: that for someone who buys, there must be someone else who is selling, and the way prices fluctuate will impact both, not just the buyer.

Prices being left to the whims of the system being proposed here (permanent market with items for sale, akin to warframe.market, but regulated by auction) will result in prices drastically dropping: how do I know this? Because that is the common mindset of people who lack proper understanding of how economy works: for such people, I.E. the absolute majority of players of a game like this (I don't expect everyone to have studied the ins and outs of the current economy as part of their university curriculum, like I have), the thing is simple... "If I want to sell an item for which there's a lot of offer but very low demand, I'll just sell it for less than everyone else". After all, if everyone is selling for 10 and I sell for 5, I will end up being at the top of the list, so should a rare buyer actually show up chances are they will buy from me, right?

However, this is a very dangerous mindset: after all, if you're selling it for five, what's stopping the next guy from selling it for three? Or for two? Or for one? And this is a mentality that's encouraged even more by the presence of auctions, since those tend to lull sellers into a false sense of security ("even if I sell this for one, it will eventually go up when people start to bid"). But the trap lies in the fact that the people who think on a scale this small are those who have small things to sell: fairly common prime parts, syndicate mods, that kinda stuff. This is a problem, because these things are things MOST PEOPLE ALREADY HAVE, meaning not many people will bid for them: how do I know? Simple: it's because if this was not the case, then selling that kinda stuff would be easy and take limited effort, and if that was the case then we wouldn't be here having this conversation at all. You people are here to complain about how selling low-end stuff is difficult, and you fail to realize WHY it's difficult.

It's difficult because the market is oversaturated. And oversaturated market means low demand. High offer + low demand + people naively attempting to out-cheap each other = prices drastically drop. Now, you seem to be of the idea that such would be a good thing: stuff is cheap, one can more easily buy it! However, that is a blatant mistake: sure, you're spending less when you're buying, but YOU'RE ALSO MAKING LESS WHEN YOU'RE SELLING. But why, you may ask, does it matter? After all, if I both earn less when selling and spend less when buying, then it means that this system pretty much counterbalances itself, right?

Wrong. The system does not counterbalance itself. Why? Because DE has made it perfectly clear that they don't endorse, in any way shape or form, the very idea of players buying and selling stuff from one another... Which means that the stuff DE sells on its own store, most of which you NEED to buy in order to progress in the game, WILL STILL COST THE SAME NO MATTER HOW LOW THE PRICES OF PRIME PARTS DROP. Need two more weapon slots? That's 12 plat. Need a warframe slot? That's 20 plat. Need an affinity booster? That's 80 plat. Sure, the game is MEANT to be free, meaning that you're MEANT to be able to see to these mandatory expenses just by making plat off of your normal gameplay experience, but with prices dropping so low how are you supposed to do that? "Normal gameplay experience", especially for newcomers, means doing star chart, sometimes venturing into open world content, rarely doing some fissures: sorties, arbitrations and high-end farming are well out of reach still. Meaning, such people have AT MOST a dozen spare prime pieces lying around, maybe a syndicate mod or two: all things that sell for next to nothing, in the extreme situation promoted by auctions which we've been analyzing so far. Meaning that, throughout their "normal gameplay experience", these people will barely be able to earn the plat for two weapon slots: anything else they need, they have no choice but to buy with real money.

Thus, a situation where low-end items are dirt-cheap is a situation where players, especially new ones, are forced to spend MORE real money in the game. And all the while, high-end items (rivens, arcanes, vaulted things) are being monopolized by hoarders, who are free to set for them astronomical prices which then, since it's an auction, will go EVEN HIGHER, because those are the things everyone want, and so many are going to bid for them. Meaning, those things are now effectively impossible to acquire for the new-ish players who're stuck trading low-end stuff unless, again, they decide to spend A LOT of real money for it. Or grind for it, but if people were willing to just wait out the grind and never take the shortcut of buying stuff, then we wouldn't be having this conversation to begin with, right? 

So this right here, this is the fatal flaw in the "if things cost less then I have to spend less real money on them" logic. A fatal flaw that makes a permanent market system a potentially destructive mechanism for newcomers, who'll find themselves stuck into a loop where they have to fork out more and more money in order to make any progress. And regulating it by auction will only make this worse, because auctions are, by their nature, an extremely volatile, easy to exploit system.

There you have it. You said you wanted facts: I gave you some. 

Thanks, you understood it.

Edited January 19, 2020 by Mest_Gryder

[Mest_Gryder]

besides, how do I delete one of my own posts, when i want to? It doesn't seem to exist an option for that here.
I accidently double posted a wall of text

Edited January 19, 2020 by Mest_Gryder

[TearsOfTomorrow]

4 hours ago, Avienas said:

auction house may not be the `best solution`

Auction house is not just "not the best solution". Auction house is an objectively terrible idea, which would greatly harm the game and the people playing it.

That's what annoys me about people who post in topics like this to say "the current system is flawed": WE ALL KNOW VERY WELL THE CURRENT SYSTEM IS FLAWED! But you cannot solve the problem by introducing an even more problematic element. Many people in here are just adopting an "as long as the current system is changed I'm fine with anything" kind of mentality, but that is incredibly dangerous, because it leads to people blindly jumping on a bandwagon without stopping to think about the consequences.

Is the current system flawed? Absolutely. Is an auction house the solution? Hell no. And that is without even mentioning the fact that, again, DE DOES NOT ENDORSE PLAYER TRADING, HAS NO INTENTION OF EVER DOING SO, AND IS NEVER GOING TO LIFT A FINGER TO IMPROVE IT OR REGULAMENT IT, so this whole discussion is empty to begin with.

In the original plans of DE players were not supposed to trade AT ALL. A trade function with dedicated chat was introduced as a "here, trading was made possible, now shut up" kind of deal because so many people were asking for it but, in that occasion, they made it perfectly clear that such a small concession was all we were ever going to get. And they have since reiterated, in multiple official statements, that they still don't consider trading an official part of the game, and that players trade at their own risk.

So why does this topic exist again?

[Trajectos]

Call it what you will: "auction house", "global market interface", "player exchange" - I want to be able to enjoy the game, not camp potential customers for hours in Maroo's Bazaar - no fun in that. Trading should be done in background, I leave a sell order and go playing missions, and whoever wants to buy it - buy it without me having to interrupt my enjoyment of the game, with platinum simply being credited to my account. All other major scifi MMOs have it: Star Trek Online, EVE Online, Anarchy Online, when is it coming to Warframe?

[Krenlik]

Here's a relatively simple fix, that brings increased access to players, but won't kill the external markets (which DE seems to care about greatly.)

 

Each relay instance has a set of lockboxes (maroo's bazaar may have an infinite amount if capacity is otherwise exceeded.)

 

Players deposit an item in the box, and set price(s) (could be 20p only, or 20p/80000cred/mod (it's a trade))

There's an index board like the airline arrivals/departures that lists the current deposits.

Player 2 can locate the box, pay one of the fees, and remove the item.  Transaction is now complete without the selling player needing to be present and no possibility of shenanigans in switching things out, changing prices, etc.

 

 

Because the index only lists the contents of a single instance of a given relay, Warframe Market etc still has a place in compiling aggregate lists across all instances if a player is looking for something specific, or is looking for the lowest price, etc.  

Since moving around and manually buying is needed, it makes it harder for bots to do (and a lot easier to detect I'd think.)

Make it so a given player can only have 2 lockboxes rented at a time, probably.

 

 

Edited January 19, 2020 by Krenlik

[Trajectos]

2 minutes ago, Krenlik said:

Here's a relatively simple fix, that brings increased access to players, but won't kill the external markets (which DE seems to care about greatly.)

 

Each relay instance has a set of lockboxes (maroo's bazaar may have an infinite amount if capacity is otherwise exceeded.)

 

Players deposit an item in the box, and set price(s) (could be 20p only, or 20p/80000cred/mod (it's a trade))

There's an index board like the airline arrivals/departures that lists the current deposits.

Player 2 can locate the box, pay one of the fees, and remove the item.  Transaction is now complete without the selling player needing to be present and no possibility of shenanigans in switching things out, changing prices, etc.

 

 

Because the index only lists the contents of a single instance of a given relay, Warframe Market etc still has a place in compiling aggregate lists across all instances if a player is looking for something specific, or is looking for the lowest price, etc.  

Since moving around and manually buying is needed, it makes it harder for bots to do (and a lot easier to detect I'd think.)

 

 

That would definitely be an improvement, as it would let me enjoy the game, not interrupt my game to meet customers. To make my customer life easier I would suggest also to allow them to view prices and buy stuff from lockboxes via some kind of menu available right from their Orbiter, to avoid inconveniencing them to having to physically visit multiple relays to find a cheap enough item they need.

[Mest_Gryder]

sounds legit. Also because every new account needs a certain mastery rank and needs to be verified as trader and the lmitation daily and amount of possible trades, seem to support it.

I mean Maroos bazar has already a dialogue option "selling my wares" or what not.
And then Rent a box for a day for 100k Credits?

Edited January 19, 2020 by Mest_Gryder

[Mest_Gryder]

Everyone knows about the third party websites for trading. So I do not really care about afk trading ingame, because people message me already, while I am in a mission, enjoying the game and I would simply tell them to wait a minute or two, cause the missions do not take so much time. Then I go into my dojo for a trade. Everyone does it. The only thing you can see in the official trade chat, are people who are try hard ripping off new players with unrealistic prices. I feel like people want to support these "scams".
In a free market, which people are also defending here, it becomes inavitable that the prices fall, regardless of a improved trading system or AH or whatever you will come up with. In the real world, as well as here, does not exist such a thing like an infinite growth, because you will reach a limitation and oversaturation of the market. This is basic economy knowledge.
The only thing we can achieve is to fasten the process, but also make the game more enjoyable, as well as giving everyone fair chances.

When there will be someday the double amount of players in Warframe, you gonna experience an inflation of tradable items regardless of a new trading idea.
What would be the result or a fix for stabilizing prices? Lower drop chances? Fixed prices?
I think there will not be a satisfying solution in this problem.
But thus far, I think the prices will and are ALREADY crashing, people will need to purchase more plat, because the official market items, will remain afterall the same price.

I gonna take this statement out of my conspiracy bag and say think that is a wanted consequence of DE.
Trade will not grofit your way through the game anymore, your plat is their plat.

[Avienas]

3 hours ago, TearsOfTomorrow said:

Auction house is not just "not the best solution". Auction house is an objectively terrible idea, which would greatly harm the game and the people playing it.

Wow salty much learn to frocking read the entire post then arbitrarily attach to one specific sentence, my POINT was towards Change should occur, can be a AH, can be something else but SOMETHING needs to occur then us having a jolly old complain-fest. If the point on the fact of a grinding is one of the most frustrating elements we hate on warframe, then obviously this applies to market chat also because of how tedious is it to grind for things like ducats and syndicate points just to resell stuff at what is continuously degrading values as baro items and syndicate items are the closest thing we have to any kind of goods to earn plat on a game that demands a consistent need of platinum even from NEWBIES.

Quote

That's what annoys me about people who post in topics like this to say "the current system is flawed": WE ALL KNOW VERY WELL THE CURRENT SYSTEM IS FLAWED! But you cannot solve the problem by introducing an even more problematic element.

BOI, you need to learn to read other things i said, Sub-chat channel, which would have multiple channels all grouped as market chat but we would have ones dedicated to prime items, one for riven mods(ESPECIALLY FOR THIS B.S. OF SPAM!), one for arcanes, one for etc. etc. etc., Since it would be as easy to access as pressing a button and having a easy to read prompt for people to do.

Or are you going to complain about something that would have about the same level of functionality as the filter system, despite the fact D.E. has no PROPER chat system in warframe and uses a very vanilla bland as heck chat box with player list, with on ps4, basically using the ps4 input console to put text in since you cant just simply have a keyboard plugged in and start typing immediately.

Quote

Many people in here are just adopting an "as long as the current system is changed I'm fine with anything" kind of mentality, but that is incredibly dangerous, because it leads to people blindly jumping on a bandwagon without stopping to think about the consequences.

Would you rather D.E. just fking pull the same sheet as ignore it for YEARS on end as its just another situation where people were so used to abusing chroma and other interactions that D.E. was too lazy to fix and once they finally DO fix it cause people were abusing the heck of it on speed running certain content, people would start COMPLAINING on why they fix super strong interaction that was present for years???

Literally, a huge mentality butt-crap they have adopted was to launch content in very broken states(and i am not just talking about Railjack & Kuva Liches alone) and spend a huge while to fix it and either ignore getting all the fixes done or take forever to get it completed that most people are sick of it or stopped caring about it since the time spent fixing it, could of been spent adjusting it into a more favorable experience, if they did not ship it in a broken state to begin with.

Quote

Is the current system flawed? Absolutely. Is an auction house the solution? Hell no. And that is without even mentioning the fact that, again, DE DOES NOT ENDORSE PLAYER TRADING, HAS NO INTENTION OF EVER DOING SO, AND IS NEVER GOING TO LIFT A FINGER TO IMPROVE IT OR REGULAMENT IT, so this whole discussion is empty to begin with.

They do not endorse it, yet they basically REQUIRE people to make use of slots a huge amount of times and take no action to prevent newer players from getting conned, scammed and so on. If D.E.`s goal was to make warframe as new player friendly as possible, they would eliminate ridicious b.s. like over-reliance on market chat to get anything in a reasonable amount of time. Which i am not talking about prime sets or even the B.S. known as riven mods, i am talking about when people are too highly confuzzled to know how to get syndicate mods, weapon stance mods (even if its just any kind of stance) or as you guessed it, platinum to get slots and the all-important potatoes so they are not gimped with measely 30 capacity minimum since they likely will have no idea what the fk a aura is till someone points it out to them.

Quote

In the original plans of DE players were not supposed to trade AT ALL. A trade function with dedicated chat was introduced as a "here, trading was made possible, now shut up" kind of deal because so many people were asking for it but, in that occasion, they made it perfectly clear that such a small concession was all we were ever going to get. And they have since reiterated, in multiple official statements, that they still don't consider trading an official part of the game, and that players trade at their own risk.

So why does this topic exist again?

Yet we have extremely terrible drop rates for plenty of items, a lack of functional ways to boost particular drop rates except boosters which do nothing to rotational rewards and even with things like `drop chance boosters`, the rates are still usually below 1% to even matter at all. Throw in the fact Kuva lich trading had to be put in to APPEASE people, when D.E. could of put the freaking token system first to manipulate what your lich brings next, but honestly that is likely going to be more of a Re-roll system to gurantee you get the same weapon again and you likely will still get clucked if you wanted a specific weapon and have to enjoy that 1 in 13 chance till you roll one of those to then enjoy spamming a re-roll loop (unless they decide whats her name has a weekly cap or demand kuva also to exchange the token with bait) if its even allowed to keep re-rolling the lich till you get a high % of the weapon you want.

Plus declaring something is not the official part of the game when one literally has a channel labeled MARKET/TRADE CHAT, IN-GAME, have the ability to trade the premium currency, IN-GAME. Well, it kind of sheets on that so called `not officially part of the game` notion, just as much as how some people will say thar loot boxes are not loot boxes but surprise mechanics or something along those lines.

 

Never the less, 2020 needs to be D.E.`s year of fixing the game more then them skirting by with releasing broken content then spend most of that time fixing it and chunking out a prime every 3 months and some cosmetics like usual. Because If they fix loads of issues, such as the Fissure system, the current way the foundry system is handled, open world system, kuva liches, railjack, plus maybe update systems like have Sortie give out tokens that could have some exchange for some kind of monthly limited reward things like SLOTS and Potatoes, it would certainly resolve a lot of the grief that is currently on warframe, without having to directly touch things like trade chat. Plus just to finish this off, here`s a list on the big WHY-sters on why i pointed these things out.

• Fissure system is something i ranted many times, its a newbie`s way to earn platinum as in sell prime junk for 1 plat each, one of the most simple of conversions yet now plenty of people want to demand full stacks or rare only parts for less then 1 plat per item. If D.E. is not going to slap the market system itself, then they honestly need to tidy up the other end by cleaning up the tedious grind with the un-necessary hoops of relic sharing, void trace system and even relic reward tables not being as ridiculous on ends.
• Foundry system, pretty straight forward: Why the fk can`t we multi-que items? I find it kind of sad we can`t que up multiple forma for building, even if we have to run x2 cost on additional ques for said buildings, to not be stuck having to build 1 forma a day, when plenty of things can require 3 to 5 forma minimum which means huge amounts of grinding, which should never be something newer players should be forced to slog thru if you want to make it enjoyable for them and for high-end players have to deal with b.s. like 65 freaking forma just to get all the mastery from all kuva lich weapons.
• Open world system, because plenty of head-aches exist in it that would be a pain to elaborate specifically but part of it can be chocked up to how people have to go thru alot of grind to just unlock particular necessary elements just so they can then grind some more to get the interesting stuff to just then grind those items into a decent state for usage, which pretty much how modular items work, before we even account for the arcanes themselves. Which are honestly the only 2 take-home kinds of items one gets out of open world, with mods mostly falling under use-less gimmicks or maximization filler (Gladiator & Augur mods).
• Kuva Liches, Because no one enjoys ridiculous grind, bad rng-sus systems and only getting one item out of it after all the `work` to both setup for it, only to have to go thru the typical weapon grind slog again to make it decent, but also be forced to put more then the usual 3 forma standard to squelch it for more, despite the extra capacity one gets from it kind of negating the need for more forma and its just mastery squelching to force you to push it further.
• Railjack, Very sure people already enjoyed spamming this in both video, text and likely wrote novels on this. So not much new i can say to this, a mosh pit of bad choices that were practically brought back into railjack, such as crap like Warm coat, one overly ridiculous grind on a specific resource with just terrible earn rates and alot of functionality blehs.
• Sortie, because most of the rewards, just like Requiem relic opening, are stuff that people stop caring on needing as much quite easily, the fact certain loot like riven mods were not pushed towards earning them thru kuva liches, especially the whole Riven slivers with R.Relics, since those are not locked to Kuva liches but Siphons themselves, the thing you need to farm anyway for kuva and not replaced with a whole-some reward system that would benefit both NEW and OLD players alike. This is kind of why i have taken a liking to limited-exchange type shop systems recently in some games, Namely you collect the Mc`guffin tokens thru doing certain content and you can only exchange for certain items up to a limited amount of times and likely have some `clean up` exchange once you clean the exchange out such as what would be Endo or even Credits for warframe and usually these shops would reset weekly, monthly or after a event period that could last a few weeks. Hence me poining the idea of Sorties just giving out exchange tokens so people can intentionally choose what loot they want, Just like how FF14 uses Tomestones/Scrips for combat/crafting exchanges for various goods, plus plenty of other other games, especially mobile ones like Fate Grand Order & Dragalia Lost took towards to get important equip items and/or crafting goodies.

Now, if people did not have to deal with the mess with prime set hunting, the B.S. designs of Kuva Liches, the piss poor drop rates for goods (especially things like avionics and railjack parts as a more recent example), even the memes of just getting a riven mod and enjoying that loop of just getting a specific weapon to only get garbage and keep opening veiled mods till that surprise chocolate egg gives them the toy they want, then i can at the very least say Market chat would likely get some kind of impact if things were more smooth for such things. But likely that will not work so they should of just took the proper band-aid rip off approach and made things like riven mods untradable once unveiled so people are spamming for veiled rivens instead of flooding the market with toxic chat demanding absurdly specific riven mods, Which they could honestly `fix` such a backlash, by just making tradable kuva jars or something aka the equilvency to ayatan statues that could be obtained from high level content in Arbitations, ESO, kuva survival, etc.

 

Edited January 19, 2020 by Avienas

[TearsOfTomorrow]

1 minute ago, Avienas said:

take no action to prevent newer players from getting conned, scammed and so on

They take no action because they don't endorse it. They said it from day one, they made it perfectly clear from the start: "we don't want you to trade, trading should not exist. If you decide to trade anyway you do so at your own risk, and whatever bad things happen to you in the process are your own fault, we accept no responsibility for it".

This is DE's official stance on the matter. It always was. It always will be. It will never change, and no action will ever be taken against it. So again, your "arguments", to use the term liberally, are empty and meaningless.

[Avienas]

46 minutes ago, TearsOfTomorrow said:

They take no action because they don't endorse it. They said it from day one, they made it perfectly clear from the start: "we don't want you to trade, trading should not exist. If you decide to trade anyway you do so at your own risk, and whatever bad things happen to you in the process are your own fault, we accept no responsibility for it".

O.M.G. read the entire thing before you start saying anything. I am just going to intentionally keep this ALOT shorter since clearly you do not have the brain cells to actually god damn read the entire thing at all.

Either:

1. They Directly adjust the problem system to nip it easily in the bud thru SOME change.
2. OR they address the surrounding elements that heavily influence the problem system to greatly reduce the big WHY people have issues with it.

But over-all if its a freaking duck, if it smells/makes-noises/tastes/acts like a duck, then its most certainly a duck. D.E. can keep deciding to not to address it, but some kind of change needs to occur, whether its associated elements or the direct element itself, especially if they want to progress on growing a player base, especially to replace people who left due to them doing b.s. decisions. By making the game something people want to get into and actually want to stay because they can enjoy it long-term.

But ultimately, if they do not want people to trade to begin with then they just need to god. damn. remove. trading. posts. and. platinum. trading. in. general. which will obviously back-lash to where they need to drastically improve drop rates to `adjust the lack of a trading system now.` Otherwise just like how people got pissed at how mod drop chance boosters were brought in just when D.E. `conveniently` nerfed loot frames ability to stack looting capabilities, even if they fixed it back, was still an out-rage, people will treat the removal of market chat as an approach to push people more to buy boosters and what not.

46 minutes ago, TearsOfTomorrow said:

This is DE's official stance on the matter. It always was. It always will be. It will never change, and no action will ever be taken against it. So again, your "arguments", to use the term liberally, are empty and meaningless.

Official stances can change over time. Just like how it was D.E.`s `official stance` to release a promotional video of railjack and show off what kind of stuff we should be doing in the railjack, including squad link, how we would take down kuva liches, the void freaking storm, literally map hazards that could disable important functions, which could vastly change how you would approach content, especially if its something as ridiculous as your abilities getting disabled or Sortie tier modifiers suddenly wanting to smack you in the face all of a sudden.

Yet it did not stop D.E. `changing` that official stance to instead split kuva liches from railjack, releasing kuva lich trading much later on alongside the valence transfer system not on launch, deciding to release railjack in a much different state then advertised and taking up to 10 hotfixes to finally up and buff critical issues people were pissed off at, the ridiculous rng-sus on things like reactors, which likely still demand shield arrays and engines to get similar treatment too, even if they were not the main focus of the reason for people to be pissed off about. 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

1 hour ago, Avienas said:

Wow salty much learn to frocking read the entire post then arbitrarily attach to one specific sentence, my POINT was towards Change should occur, can be a AH, can be something else but SOMETHING needs to occur then us having a jolly old complain-fest. 

They did. It's the same nonsense you always post. 

And no, change only for the sake of changing something is not a good thing. Changes that make an improvement are good. Ones that destroy an economy are generally bad. 

Don't make bad proposals, because they're bad. Mmmkay? 

 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

3 hours ago, Krenlik said:

Here's a relatively simple fix, that brings increased access to players, but won't kill the external markets (which DE seems to care about greatly.)

 

Each relay instance has a set of lockboxes (maroo's bazaar may have an infinite amount if capacity is otherwise exceeded.)

 

Players deposit an item in the box, and set price(s) (could be 20p only, or 20p/80000cred/mod (it's a trade))

There's an index board like the airline arrivals/departures that lists the current deposits.

Player 2 can locate the box, pay one of the fees, and remove the item.  Transaction is now complete without the selling player needing to be present and no possibility of shenanigans in switching things out, changing prices, etc.

 

 

Because the index only lists the contents of a single instance of a given relay, Warframe Market etc still has a place in compiling aggregate lists across all instances if a player is looking for something specific, or is looking for the lowest price, etc.  

Since moving around and manually buying is needed, it makes it harder for bots to do (and a lot easier to detect I'd think.)

Make it so a given player can only have 2 lockboxes rented at a time, probably.

 

 

The instances are ephemeral for a reason. They're not permanent fixtures, they're only cycled up when there's a need for them to exist. Your proposal would require that they exist and be permanently accessible. It's just an auction house by another name, with extra steps and suffers all the same problems as an auction house would without additional benefit. 

[TearsOfTomorrow]

3 hours ago, Avienas said:

Either:

1. They Directly adjust the problem system to nip it easily in the bud thru SOME change.
2. OR they address the surrounding elements that heavily influence the problem system to greatly reduce the big WHY people have issues with it.

Or

3. Neither of these happen because DE doesn't endorse trading.

No matter how much you keep screaming your empty, meaningless "arguments", the situation will not change. All you're doing is repeating, over and over, that DE must do something they have explicitly stated they have no intention of doing. The pointlessness of this is apparent.

[Corvenir]

I'd rather Rivens' have their own chat area, I know filters exist, but it's annoying how these people do their best to circumvent filters. paragraphs of "godly riven fart insert 10 weapons 9k plat, afk no reply not interested and yes imma dweb"

[Lullypumpsie]

Honestly, this is a good idea, but it will be difficult to implement. Ideally, I would like to have an auction like in WoW

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

2 minutes ago, Lollipumpsie said:

Honestly, this is a good idea, but it will be difficult to implement. Ideally, I would like to have an auction like in WoW

Our economy ecosystem is not the same as WOW. What works there is going to be a major pain here. 

[Avienas]

5 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

They did. It's the same nonsense you always post. 

And no, change only for the sake of changing something is not a good thing. Changes that make an improvement are good. Ones that destroy an economy are generally bad. 

Don't make bad proposals, because they're bad. Mmmkay? 

 

Oh look its the jackarse who wants to constantly sheet on everyone and think any type of change is a bad thing. Too bad that if D.E. is not going to actually beta test the damn thing in a actual test server with a limited number of players(not themselves messing around in some dev mode), then they are going to learn to have to start REALLY using P.C. to push actual test work to see what works and what doesn`t.

Otherwise its just the same song and dance over and over and over. Its not that D.E. needs to drastically alter the economy first, its they need to do tuning, tweaks and likely start taking advantage of doing surveys to get ideas on what people want to lean towards changes, which considering we got quite a few possibilities including:

• Auction House(Aka what you want to constanty condemn)
• Market Board(Aka the 2nd thing you want to constantly condemn cause its basically an auction house as far as you care)
• Sub-Market channel system(Literally the most easiest one to implement since its as EZ as putting in more chat tabs with some extra tweaks.)
• Limited word posting system(Likely you will still try to figure to sheet on this despite it would still be regular market chat, except people are restricted to using WTB, WTS or WTT at the start of al thar messages and every other part beyond that would need to be linked items, which could easily be addressed with a dictionary system that one could pull up by pressing a button like tab or so to pull up the words and would be forced to also ONLY discuss platinum costs until they start talking with actual people so they are forced to haggle immediately to force more player interaction as D.E. so wanted social interaction in trading and what not if i recall correctly).

Plus likely many other ideas that others suggested and i am just honestly wishing it to be the Limit Word system or the Sub-Market Channel system. Since they keep the same exact market system except people have to actually use a brain when typing out thar messages or use thar dang brain to be in the right market channel for the right stuff they want. Which as long as people stay in the correct channels, alot less text flood will be present since it will be massively divided up. Because before Relics & Riven mods came along, market chat was a hell of a lot less toxic then before, in both SIZE and QUALITY of the toxic levels. 

So YES, i would like D.E. to at the very least try to EXPERIMENT to see if people like it or not, since its clearly not that hard for them to hotfix things in/out as necessary if a problem does exist. Since D.E. can quite literally revert the change back if the backlash is major enough on P.C., Since they clearly did not care much at how much of a mess Kuva liches & Railjack was in, since both things were in such bad states that it really pissed off the community over-all.

3 hours ago, TearsOfTomorrow said:

Or

3. Neither of these happen because DE doesn't endorse trading.

No matter how much you keep screaming your empty, meaningless "arguments", the situation will not change. All you're doing is repeating, over and over, that DE must do something they have explicitly stated they have no intention of doing. The pointlessness of this is apparent.

BOI, learn to listen then suddenly start with the meaningless argument shut-down comments, because every thing talked about in the forums, about market chat, everything talked about in clan, region, trade, recruit chats are honestly meaningless to begin with, yet we still keep with this song and dance. Its only because these meaningless chats occur that people start getting fired up and aware on things then start wanting to brain storm those ideas which eventually circulates to sheet happening because things like D.E. members picking up posts and messages about these things. How else do you think crap like D.E. deciding to back-pedal on warframe umbratization, reverting the loot frame nerfs and even the stupid b.s. such as someone crying about universal medallions should NOT affect the conclave, despite it being amongst the garbage wreck of content that might as well of been temporarily removed to save file-space and move the goods to simaris`s shop or give Darvo some kind of point shop of his own where we could help clem daily for points or donate `excess blue prints` of various junk for points to exchange for conclave goods. Certainly would give a reason for people to frequent Darvo more if he had more then so-called deal of the day items which are weapons that could easily be built at 0 platinum cost.

I would gladly post quite a few videos from various `content creators` who have quite literally declared that D.E. needs to get thar sheet straight and start fixing the game period. Because even if they are kind of `so-called` required to keep releasing new content to keep the game afloat, they could honestly push back bits of content like new warframes or railjack expansions or even the New war quest for easily 1 or even 2 months just to do a mass fix clean up on thar game. Plenty of big-title games have done huge bug fix updates, one good example being Maple Story, where several years ago when i was still active on it, where once or twice i saw them post a ridiculous lengthy file on huge number of fixes they were going to apply to the game and they actually went thru with it and it really showed with all the fixes that occurred.

Especially when it could be for the most simple of issues like VERY annoying-ly loud railjack engines, the movement bug where railjacks, archwing and even warframes suddenly decide to act like you have your finger holding the stick or a button perpetually when you are not and usually only fixes it self by resetting the game(which trust me it occurs with multiple controllers even a completely new one i bought due to thinking my controller was broken because of the frequent occurrence of it). To even the most ridiculous of bugs such as being unable to use particular weapons, abilities, transfer back into your warframe or to operator mode and the fun of when enemies `accidentally` have incorrect values and are doing things like one-shotting you from across the map or being literally immortal.

 

So yeah, i think i will gladly keep `repeating`, especially when i am taking a break from other things, especially when i am still waiting for D.E. to finish up the all hotfixes they need to get thru before they actually decide to ship it to consoles, then it can be figured out if its worth continue playing the content, the hotfixes were for and catching up on anything the hotfixes brought in. If they do not do anything then i will likely go back to doing other things like usual, until eventually something of much better quality, that especially has a company who actually adheres to what they promote and advertise on bringing, then pulling things like giving extremely inferior quality content releases or continuing to do bad decisions, that would likely `spice up the game` as some of them would say, but it would do something as worst as unnecessarily complicate the game further when its already a complicated mess to enjoy the game to begin with.

Edited January 19, 2020 by Avienas

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

36 minutes ago, Avienas said:

Oh look its the jackarse who wants to constantly sheet on everyone and think any type of change is a bad thing.

1, language. Remember to abide by the TOS for the forums. 

2. You won't be able to model the economy without having the players anyway. But  that said, we have had a time when a similar system has been added to the game on a smaller scale, and it supposedly crashed prices overnight. What's that suggest to you? 

This is not the first time you've been told that. 

3. Demanding that a bad change be made, just to satisfy your need for "a change", is ridiculous, and you are ridiculous for doing so once again. 

Come up with a good idea, and you will find support. Dumb ideas don't deserve support just because you can't figure out anything better than what we have. Dumb ideas belong on the rubbish pile, no matter how many times you push for it. 

4. FFS learn how to use the filter effectively already. You are only embarrassing yourself at this point. 

[Midas]

https://forums.warframe.com/forum/21-general/

[TearsOfTomorrow]

51 minutes ago, Avienas said:

If they do not do anything then i will likely go back to doing other things

Sure, goodbye then. Don't let the door hit you on your way out.

[Avienas]

2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

1, language. Remember to abide by the TOS for the forums.

Yanno i might as well see how long till someone else decides to chide in on how much this topic get de-railed into salt fests when-ever you get involved because people either decide to stop commenting on the post because you basically nag, nag, naaaaaag that everyone is a `big stoopid face` for thinking on something needs to occur and you are the picture of perfectionism incarnate who thinks you are spouting some kind of commandments that, Thou. Shall. Not. Doubt. D.E.`s ways. of. handling. the. game., OR they are too busy posting back at you then focusing on the main topic itself, why the Topic Opener believes we need a Auction house and discussing topics around it such as maybe alternatives to Auction houses, then flat out thinking one is `entitled` to tell them to piss off, when that might as well be against TOS for insulting people`s right to talk about why they feel the need to talk about why warframe needs something like that OR SIMILAR to it.

Quote

2. You won't be able to model the economy without having the players anyway. But  that said, we have had a time when a similar system has been added to the game on a smaller scale, and it supposedly crashed prices overnight. What's that suggest to you? 

Its called sample size, how do you think surveys and getting rough ideas work to eventually mass produce things or popularize things? Its not like companies did things like magically figure out what smart-phones needed at the bare minimum on what makes it a smart phone, plus in addition to how they figure on putting in additional things like new kinds of app programs and some even becoming a `must have` to be part of phones, such as weather, map, notes and many other minor `apps` that might not make a major impression to some but become a huge important norm of convenience on various day to day needs.

So yes, if market suddenly crashes over night on PC because D.E. decided to try a new market system, then all D.E. has to do is remove it and more then likely it will correct itself, unless people are too stupid to self-correct after the environment that caused the crash was removed.

But pray tell, PLEASE GIVE ME A LINK THAT DESCRIBES THE SYSTEM THAT CAUSED THE CRASH, it would be nice to see how specifically said system operated so i can actually understand the WHY it crashed, then having people talk about some vague system as far as i know that they say is similar but do not show or properly explain what exactly it was.

Quote

This is not the first time you've been told that. 

3. Demanding that a bad change be made, just to satisfy your need for "a change", is ridiculous, and you are ridiculous for doing so once again. 

Come up with a good idea, and you will find support. Dumb ideas don't deserve support just because you can't figure out anything better than what we have. Dumb ideas belong on the rubbish pile, no matter how many times you push for it. 

Yet i have already introduced 2 completely different ideas that is entirely un-related to an automated market chat system of sorts.

1. Both systems still require people to TYPE in `Market Chat` on what they want to Buy, Sell and Trade.
2. Both systems still require people to talk in Whisper to discuss the price and decide to say O.K. to the trade.
3. Both systems still require people to go to a trading post or similar place to initiate the trade and complete the transaction.

These ideas mostly spawned because i had discussions with other people on how market chat could be fixed in plenty of ways, which they require extremely minimal changes, one just preventing regular text from being input inside market chat and people have to speak with only a WTB, WTS & WTT at the start of thar text then list what items they want to buy or sell or trade. No multi-layer texts of words they want to type, no multi-requests of buys/sells/trades at the same time.

The other being quite literally just giving more chat channels for market chat to play around with that are listed as specific chat channels.

How much more complicated can one get with such systems? Which still work the exact damn way as the current market chat, because it does not affect the process of trading, but only where or how they input thar marketing messages. Which based on LOGIC, should drastically reduce the head-aches people have to go thru on being able to find what they want to buy, want to sell, want to trade and find someone else who wants to do vice-versa on the same element without needing to be completely walled off by millions of other people spamming text, Where everyone has to have a huge number of custom filters just to slow down the spam a tad so they might be able to spot what thar targets are for buying/selling/trading.

Quote

4. FFS learn how to use the filter effectively already. You are only embarrassing yourself at this point. 

Ur rye drana, zicd vun dymgehk ypuid vemdanc e drehg e ys kuehk du ehdnutila oui du uha uv so vyjuneda ujanmo cesbmecdel veldeuhym myhkiykac dryd ec uhmo naymmo bnacahd eh 2 kysac dryd lysa uid uh [Playstation 2] unekehymmo.

Huf ruf ypuid oui ahzuo dra vaamehk uv dnoehk du nayt fryd ec pycelymmo mega y vunaekh myhkiyka yc vyn yc oui lyh damm, fedr oui huf ihtancdyhtehk ruf silr uv y sacc ed ec du pa ypma du yllinydamo nayt fryd baubma yna cyoehk yht drah ymm dra udran rellibc dryd lusa fedr ed cilr yc ruf vycd daqd clnummc, dra mylg uv baubma luhcecdahdmo gaabehk du cbalevel gao funtc frah fyhdehk du syngad ypuid edasc yht ryjehk fryd luimt pa tuwahc uv tevvanahd jyneydeuhc uh ruf drao luimt crundah y edas`c hysa du syga ed esbuccepma du ghuf fryd drao luimt pa dymgehk ypuid yht ryjehk syho baubma pycelymmo nabaydehk dryd.

Cu, aqbmyeh du sa eh bnuban tadyem uh ruf e lyh taym fedr simdebma jyneydeuhc uh ruf baubma naxiacd [Stances], [Syndicate mods] [Prime Parts], [Prime Sets], [Riven Mods], [Kuva Liches], [Regular mods] yht syho udran edasc fedr hu nrosa un naycuhehk du sydlr dras ib fedr uhmo [WTB] yht [WTS] yc dra jano cbynca yht uhmo luhcecdahd amasahd dryd caasc du lynno yho faekr cehla baubma femm cusadesac cyo [WTB] yh edas frah drao sayhd [WTT] un tasyht [Platinum] po tasyhtehk oui du [WTB] cdivv vnus dras cu drao lyh drah [WTB] cdivv vnus oui, avvaldejamo sayhehk ed fyc suna uv y nelg-crut janceuh uv [WTT] drah yh yldiym [WTB]. 

 

Enjoy having fun dealing with one of my old favorite game languages from the PS2 era, i might actually respect you if you can actually translate that and get a REAL good understanding on what i mean on how much of a pain market chat is. I might just say what the language is later though if your too much of a coward to put that ever so aggressive effort you seem to have when it comes to witch-hunting anyone who says anything remotely related to Auction houses again. Because honestly if you actually do read that, then congrats, you then likely understand why market chat is a mess in general.

P.s. Here`s an extra hint, the PS2 era game i am talking about is something that has been around for a while and is not dead yet.

Edited January 19, 2020 by Avienas

[(XBOX)Madinogi]

On 2020-01-09 at 2:26 PM, TheGuyver said:

Yeah sure, so people can sit there for hours and hours and hours on end undercutting people by 1 plat at a time and tanking the hell out of any sort of market. Never mind the people who would want it on the mobile app, which after playing wow, is such a cancerous thing. 

We don't need an auction house, and we'll never get an auction house. The playerbase will drive the price of everything down to the bare minimum and then some and platinum would be virtually worthless outside of market only items. 

Thats how Competition Works Pal, get used to it. it happens in the real world thats how it works in games, You want to sell something you see someone selling it at 200 Plat, do you price it at 300p and ensuring your item isnt bought for awhile or do you sell at 190p making it so your item is cheaper and more likely to sell and might even cause the 200 seller to not want to dip below his price. get used to how things work, sure it might suck not selling it instantly and getting a fat wadd of cash but atleast you will sell it. 

[Omega]

The fact that warframe.market exists and a resource that thousands of people use gives a clear answer to the demand of such system. 

A system such as warframe.market should be implemented in-game, why are we relying on third party websites/resources?