Actual Auction house is what we need

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

1 hour ago, Avienas said:

Its called sample size, how do you think surveys and getting rough ideas work to eventually mass produce things or popularize things? Its not like companies did things like magically figure out what smart-phones needed at the bare minimum on what makes it a smart phone, plus in addition to how they figure on putting in additional things like new kinds of app programs and some even becoming a `must have` to be part of phones, such as weather, map, notes and many other minor `apps` that might not make a major impression to some but become a huge important norm of convenience on various day to day needs.

No. Because that sample won't be a good representation of the actual economic ecosystem because by it's very nature, that branch must be ephemeral. So they won't have time to settle into a realistic trading economy, will they? 

If you want to see what happens when a fraction starts using a system, look back at what happened when warframe.market came online. 

This is not magic. 

Oh by the way, how many apps got discarded along the way because they were terrible ideas? Why would you want to replicate them? 

1 hour ago, Avienas said:

So yes, if market suddenly crashes over night on PC because D.E. decided to try a new market system, then all D.E. has to do is remove it and more then likely it will correct itself, unless people are too stupid to self-correct after the environment that caused the crash was removed.

You don't realize exactly how stupid many people are and how incapable of self correction:

Speaking of which.... 

1 hour ago, Avienas said:

Yet i have already introduced 2 completely different ideas that is entirely un-related to an automated market chat system of sorts.

They're both bad because they both result in the same problem. You know that we've been over this... Repeatedly. Others have also tried to explain it to you. 

1 hour ago, Avienas said:

Where everyone has to have a huge number of custom filters just to slow down the spam a tad so they might be able to spot what thar targets are for buying/selling/trading.

Again your apparent inability to figure out an effective way to use a few positive filters at a time to achieve the effect you think is so difficult to achieve, speaks more about your lack of logical skills than anything else. 

1 hour ago, Avienas said:

Enjoy having fun dealing with one of my old favorite game languages from the PS2 era, i might actually respect you if you can actually translate that and get a REAL good understanding on what i mean on how much of a pain market chat is.

Do you think that I give a crap? (Notice how with just a minor effort, I was able to easily undo all of the effort you went to there? Yeah filtering chat is a bit like that.) 

There's a very good reason why I oppose auction houses being added to this game. It's because it's going to crash the economy. And that's bad for the game. 

1 hour ago, (XB1)Madinogi said:

Thats how Competition Works Pal, get used to it. it happens in the real world thats how it works in games, You want to sell something you see someone selling it at 200 Plat, do you price it at 300p and ensuring your item isnt bought for awhile or do you sell at 190p making it so your item is cheaper and more likely to sell and might even cause the 200 seller to not want to dip below his price. get used to how things work, sure it might suck not selling it instantly and getting a fat wadd of cash but atleast you will sell it. 

You are missing something. The real world typically doesn't feature infinite supply, and finite demand. The prices will race to zero exactly as they described. That's a bad thing, because people won't be able to earn any substantial amount of plat for their items. That's going to hurt the game. 

37 minutes ago, Omega said:

The fact that warframe.market exists and a resource that thousands of people use gives a clear answer to the demand of such system. 

A system such as warframe.market should be implemented in-game, why are we relying on third party websites/resources? 

The fact that addictive drugs exist and are in high demand, used by millions around the world, doesn't mean that they're "good" does it? 

Take a look at what happened when warframe.market came online. Prices fell immediately. And only a fraction of all players list their items there. 

What happens when you expand that to every player? 

[Omega]

Lol why would you bring up drugs as a comparison? Apples to oranges. We're discussing systems in-game, not narcotics/drugs.

I highly doubt a small "fraction" of players list on warframe.market. WM is a resource the majority of players are aware about. Only the most clueless players don't take a look at warframe.market before posting on trade chat. 

Welcome to the free market where prices can drop in an instant. The market corrects itself over time. Warframe.market just compiles buy and sell requests, I don't see what the problem is. I don't see prices tanking on most items, only stuff that has been in circulation for over 3 years. Trade chat is the same thing but 100x more disorganized and cluttered. 

Instead of typing something every two minutes in trade chat, and waiting mindlessly there should be systems in place that facilitates trading easier that aren't automated which is what most people here are against 

Edited January 20, 2020 by Omega

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

20 minutes ago, Omega said:

Lol why would you bring up drugs as a comparison? Apples to oranges. We're discussing systems in-game, not narcotics/drugs.

I highly doubt a small "fraction" of players list on warframe.market. WM is a resource the majority of players are aware about. Only the most clueless players don't take a look at warframe.market before posting on trade chat. 

Welcome to the free market where prices can drop in an instant. The market corrects itself over time. Warframe.market just compiles buy and sell requests, I don't see what the problem is. I don't see prices tanking on most items, only stuff that has been in circulation for over 3 years. Trade chat is the same thing but 100x more disorganized and cluttered. 

Instead of typing something every two minutes in trade chat, and waiting mindlessly there should be systems in place that facilitates trading easier that aren't automated which is what most people here are against 

Does warframe market have the same number of registered losers as warframe? If not is it a fraction of the number of accounts? If so are you going to say "oh... right". 

And market correction depends on supply and demand equilibria. We don't have that. We have infinite supply and finite demand. 

If you need to spam your item for sale, you should reconsider your asking price. That's a "you" problem. Giving you an auction house won't solve it for you. 

[TheGuyver]

2 hours ago, (XB1)Madinogi said:

Thats how Competition Works Pal, get used to it. it happens in the real world thats how it works in games, You want to sell something you see someone selling it at 200 Plat, do you price it at 300p and ensuring your item isnt bought for awhile or do you sell at 190p making it so your item is cheaper and more likely to sell and might even cause the 200 seller to not want to dip below his price. get used to how things work, sure it might suck not selling it instantly and getting a fat wadd of cash but atleast you will sell it. 

This entire post is a gigantic oversimplification, and you don't really offer any actual points here other than just saying "that's how it is" and giving some pretty mediocre examples of nothing. 

[Avienas]

57 minutes ago, TheGuyver said:

This entire post is a gigantic oversimplification, and you don't really offer any actual points here other than just saying "that's how it is" and giving some pretty mediocre examples of nothing. 

Too many people in general keep Rooster tugging this entire fiesta around to begin with, whether its over-complicating things or over-simplifying it. People could keep things as vanilla as possible and yet people are going to throw a fiddle-fang fiddle about it like its the anti-christ or something similar to whatever religion they preach but likely do not even practice at all.

 

Never the less, it would be nice if we could have the topic go back to the main topic at hand and go with the questions on again, Topic Poster basically opened up.

1. What is it that make some people have trouble with the existing market chat?
2. What is it that would make some people defend it (but seriously, looking at you Guzzlord-mantis, lets stop talking about market crashes and be more creative on explaining the whys to defend it, besides the NO-U STOOPID answers).
3. What are the Pro-Cons to a different system that could be put in place of Market Chat.
4. What are the elements that are normally `frequented` within market chat (Ex. Relics, Prime Parts, Riven`crap` mods, illegible/troll messages, syndicate items, rare mods, etc) and how do they influence market chat in its current state?
5.  What kind of impact could occur if some of these changes (besides someone instantly saying prices crashes), such as if Riven mods were to magically become untradable and how would that effect market chat?
6. How far can one stretch ways to retain the existing market chat system while doing some changes that in a logical manner, could greatly improve the player base experience in handling such things?
7. Plus also re-examining what elements that might need to be changed/removed from market chat, to improve it in some way that would make it operate with the very `active` player base that frequent market chat in its current state or at the very least particular marketers who really altered how market chat has been handled these days, because of how much of a impact they had, once they were introduced to market chat (P.S. i do not just mean riven mods, i am talking about several items which include the changes to arcane obtaining, relic system and several others).

Because I for one, as someone, would rather we are thinking up other ways to approach the issue, then constantly telling eachother that no changes should occur, when we should honestly be discussing the whats/whys/hows, such as the possibility if D.E. were to do it, And stop getting hung up on the notions of market crashes and `D.E. never gonna do dat`, where instead we should be acting under the impression that D.E. could possibly do those things. But we should do the major question on WHY X thing might be a better approach then something else.

Edited January 20, 2020 by Avienas

[PatternistSlave]

1 hour ago, Omega said:

I don't see prices tanking on most items, only stuff that has been in circulation for over 3 years.

What type of items do you think new players are likely to have?  "Well I'll be fine." isn't an argument.

2 minutes ago, Avienas said:

the main topic at hand

The main topic is someone thought they should have plat despite not having time or money to spend on the game.  That's not how games work.

[Avienas]

14 minutes ago, PatternistSlave said:

The main topic is someone thought they should have plat despite not having time or money to spend on the game.  That's not how games work.

Because everyone needs plat to get any progress in warframe, its basically a integral part of the damn game since if you use this argument pre-night wave, people had no way to get slots except the use of `free plat` to buy some slots. Otherwise they have to constantly scrap ALOT of things, including what could be previous primes and warframes they loaded large amounts of potatoes and forma into just to make room for other warframes and weapons.

post-nightwave, it does not hold much water since you could require dozens of ranks just to get 1 maybe 2 set of slot expansions and usually being one for weapon and one for warframe. Getting basically 1 warframe slot and 2 weapon slots in a period of 2 to 3 months is not exactly any efficient benefit what-so-ever, since plenty of players, especially new players, will likely go thru dozens of warframes in those 2-3 months and will definitely get attached to particular ones.

So let me once again bring up this question again: `Can you whole-heartedly say you can play warframe without spending a single platinum at all, from complete scratch and acquire the majority of goods without needing to be forced into tough decisions where you would have to scrap important items just to make room for other goods that may/may-not be as necessary?`.

Obviously answer is No, since you would have to entirely skip out the concept of mastery grinding, obtaining effective gear even for mid-level combat and put yourself into gimped situations where you are being a one-trick only warframe user to save space and likely denying oneself of more effective frames for certain situations.

 

So Overall, people have to keep dealing with this hurdle where the majority of it is not explained and people have to spend more time learning how the `sandbox` we call warframe actually works, then once you actually have a understanding, you have to enjoy being stuck in that hamster wheel of farming and getting plat to have enough slots so have a decent selection of equipment and plenty of slots to grind the rest for higher mastery to at the very least get some of the more `decent` weapons. Which is kind of why i myself would like d.e. to start addressing these hurdles by creating things like giving weapon/warframe slots at certain intervals of mastery ranks (which they do for load out slots anyway) or create some kind of monthly shop so players have a option B to earn a few slot upgrades a month so they are not 100% guranteed to be forced to use market chat to get slots, potatoes and likely boosters to once again, not be gimped in the game itself.

Edited January 20, 2020 by Avienas

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

8 minutes ago, Avienas said:

Because everyone needs plat to get any progress in warframe, its basically a integral part of the damn game since if you use this argument pre-night wave, people had no way to get slots except the use of `free plat` to buy some slots. Otherwise they have to constantly scrap ALOT of things, including what could be previous primes and warframes they loaded large amounts of potatoes and forma into just to make room for other warframes and weapons.

Right but nobody is forced to buy their junk for full price. Especially since it's all stuff we already have and don't need more of. 

Auction houses are being held up as the way to make plat passively so that they become rich in no time flat. That's NEVER going to happen, because auction houses will increase supply while demand remains static. What'll happen is that prices will plummet as the same greedy people who demanded this, all try to drop their prices just a little bit more than their neighbours. 

Soon nobody will be able to earn significant amounts of plat for any items other than rivens and 0-hour items that have just been added to the game. 

 

That's why we must never have auction houses or anything resembling them in this game. 

[(XBOX)Madinogi]

2 hours ago, TheGuyver said:

This entire post is a gigantic oversimplification, and you don't really offer any actual points here other than just saying "that's how it is" and giving some pretty mediocre examples of nothing. 

Your post i replied to was about people undercutting you in price, something you said you did not like, i told you thats how competition in a free market works, which this game works off of. i simply told you get used to it. i dont need to bring any points up because you cant see that is how these systems work then theres nothing that will help you understand, 

i personnally dont care if a AH is implemented or not, preferably if it means the community benefits from it with being able to put their items up for sale in game and not on 3rd party sites im all for it. even if im having to fight people's Prices to sell my Goods, 

[TheGuyver]

48 minutes ago, (XB1)Madinogi said:

Your post i replied to was about people undercutting you in price, something you said you did not like, i told you thats how competition in a free market works, which this game works off of. i simply told you get used to it. i dont need to bring any points up because you cant see that is how these systems work then theres nothing that will help you understand, 

i personnally dont care if a AH is implemented or not, preferably if it means the community benefits from it with being able to put their items up for sale in game and not on 3rd party sites im all for it. even if im having to fight people's Prices to sell my Goods, 

I don't have to get used to anything, because there will never be an auction house. I personally don't care about being undercut, I've made and purchased enough plat to not need any right now or for a long time, and my point of view is a broader one than just "iwantphatstaxxxofplatlul" because there's a lot things to actually consider. DE isn't dumb enough to add an auction house and destroy the price of their platinum knowing full well how the community will run rampant over it. 

So again, you're not really bringing up any points unless you just want to fluff your post count. 

 

[Toppien]

On 2020-01-09 at 2:02 PM, (PS4)Apoleon_amarr said:

I remember that last auction house i participated in, i made millions from the game currency by pure exploits and determination , it was so extreme that the auction house was deleted less than a week later, i cant even begin to imagine the platinum i could hoard in this game by doing that

 

Tl;dr sure dude thats a yes from me fam

those exploits wouldn't work here for the simple reason there's a limit to how many transactions you make daily, at most people could put like 25 items per day, that also takes away buying transaction "points" so if you want to buy stuff you would have to give up sales, and even by the next day if you haven't sold anything you will only recover the free transaction points you could have used for buying stuff, this could also help against people spamming items in the market, cuz the limit.

[Avienas]

8 hours ago, Toppien said:

those exploits wouldn't work here for the simple reason there's a limit to how many transactions you make daily, at most people could put like 25 items per day, that also takes away buying transaction "points" so if you want to buy stuff you would have to give up sales, and even by the next day if you haven't sold anything you will only recover the free transaction points you could have used for buying stuff, this could also help against people spamming items in the market, cuz the limit.

Its funny how i feel like not many people pointed out one critical element that could likely be a influencing factor if, HYPOTHETICALLY, if D.E. were to put in a auction house, that they could restrict how many times a person can use an auction house:

1. Instead of using the same trade limit as people use for trades, D.E. could easily have a completely different count for how many times people can buy/sell a SINGLE item from the Auction house a day. Just for HYPOTHETICAL reasons, lets say people start with 1 when they first gain access to trading and every 5 ranks, will unlock one more allowance and caps off at 5 a day maximum or MR 22 or something.
2. Now sure people could try to do something like look at prices after using up all thar trades and then expect the values to be about the same tomorrow, but as how so many people keep pointing out, values are likely not going to be the same each day and this pretty much prevents the idea of people trying to sell loads of one item and expect a massive profit or in some scenarios, where some people buy up all the `cheap items` in a market place and then resell them at a higher value that could be a small increase, but if people likely have a high demand for it, would likely instant sell right away and then the `exploiter` could walk away with a smidge more plat in the process. Kind of why i see the point on how some market systems prevent people from immediately getting items as soon as they bought them, have cooldown timers to readjust something they put up on the market or just prevent people from putting stuff back on the market, if they just bought it from the market just now.

Before people start repeating the bashing coaster against Auction Houses again, try to remember this is a HYPOTHETICAL scenario on me pointing out the usage of a more restrictive trade cap to help influence how marketing is done in some way.

 

Anyway its ultimately a roller coaster of ups and downs with the major what-ifs and what-nots and how much would have be put in place or NOT be added, to react that factor when a system of any sort can be GOOD to some people and BAD to them instead. But on that same note your always going to have someone who wants to whine & complain something is a terrible system, even if its not the same person doing so, which if it is, Congrats, its clearly a troll if they are going to keep crying about anything with the word CHANGE being present.

But yet again, the main problem i now see is not the system base itself, but HOW MUCH DEPTH needs to be discussed about on digging into what elements are necessary to make a thing a success...OR at the very least to make use of it as a model to gain new insight on certain techniques that could be applied to the current market system. Such as maybe reduce the amount of trades people could do a day, since plenty already declare that most do not go past MR 13~ or so, which usually means most would not care for extra trade stock beyond those dozen or so trade counts, which they could easily cap it down to 5 to 7 and not gain a trade every M.R. rank with it stopped at 7 by M.R. 13, which could mean people are thinking alot more on what to do trades for, then frivolously burning them up without a care in the world.

Edited January 20, 2020 by Avienas

[AncientWendigo]

46 minutes ago, Avienas said:

Its funny how i feel like not many people pointed out one critical element that could likely be a influencing factor if, HYPOTHETICALLY, if D.E. were to put in a auction house, that they could restrict how many times a person can use an auction house:

1. Instead of using the same trade limit as people use for trades, D.E. could easily have a completely different count for how many times people can buy/sell a SINGLE item from the Auction house a day. Just for HYPOTHETICAL reasons, lets say people start with 1 when they first gain access to trading and every 5 ranks, will unlock one more allowance and caps off at 5 a day maximum or MR 22 or something.
2. Now sure people could try to do something like look at prices after using up all thar trades and then expect the values to be about the same tomorrow, but as how so many people keep pointing out, values are likely not going to be the same each day and this pretty much prevents the idea of people trying to sell loads of one item and expect a massive profit or in some scenarios, where some people buy up all the `cheap items` in a market place and then resell them at a higher value that could be a small increase, but if people likely have a high demand for it, would likely instant sell right away and then the `exploiter` could walk away with a smidge more plat in the process. Kind of why i see the point on how some market systems prevent people from immediately getting items as soon as they bought them, have cooldown timers to readjust something they put up on the market or just prevent people from putting stuff back on the market, if they just bought it from the market just now.

Before people start repeating the bashing coaster against Auction Houses again, try to remember this is a HYPOTHETICAL scenario on me pointing out the usage of a more restrictive trade cap to help influence how marketing is done in some way.

 

Anyway its ultimately a roller coaster of ups and downs with the major what-ifs and what-nots and how much would have be put in place or NOT be added, to react that factor when a system of any sort can be GOOD to some people and BAD to them instead. But on that same note your always going to have someone who wants to whine & complain something is a terrible system, even if its not the same person doing so, which if it is, Congrats, its clearly a troll if they are going to keep crying about anything with the word CHANGE being present.

But yet again, the main problem i now see is not the system base itself, but HOW MUCH DEPTH needs to be discussed about on digging into what elements are necessary to make a thing a success...OR at the very least to make use of it as a model to gain new insight on certain techniques that could be applied to the current market system. Such as maybe reduce the amount of trades people could do a day, since plenty already declare that most do not go past MR 13~ or so, which usually means most would not care for extra trade stock beyond those dozen or so trade counts, which they could easily cap it down to 5 to 7 and not gain a trade every M.R. rank with it stopped at 7 by M.R. 13, which could mean people are thinking alot more on what to do trades for, then frivolously burning them up without a care in the world.

There's another market-balancing factor DE could use in place of or in addition to the trade limit: ducats. Whether it's increasing new items in Baro's inventory or making them a resource for something Paracesis-style, requiring more ducats is a way to reduce the number of items hitting the market.

[Learicorn]

On 2020-01-09 at 4:00 PM, anemo2 said:

and also revert ember 🙂

aand you just doomed the entire thread

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

1 hour ago, Avienas said:

Before people start repeating the bashing coaster against Auction Houses again, try to remember this is a HYPOTHETICAL scenario on me pointing out the usage of a more restrictive trade cap to help influence how marketing is done in some way.

And again, all you will have managed to do, even with those restrictions, is to drastically increase supply while doing absolutely nothing to increase demand. 

And that's why it's a bad move. 

This is the fundamental flaw in all of these suggestions you are making. Take the time to try and figure that part out. It would save both of us an enormous amount of time. 

1 hour ago, Avienas said:

Congrats, its clearly a troll if they are going to keep crying about anything with the word CHANGE being present.

Look it's simple. What you are trying to achieve is a BAD IDEA. It doesn't matter what path you take to get there, because they are all ways of you try to do a BAD THING. The issue is not change, but making sure that we don't make BAD CHANGES. Especially not just for the sake of changing stuff because you're under the mistaken impression that change = good. 

 

[Toppien]

3 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

And again, all you will have managed to do, even with those restrictions, is to drastically increase supply while doing absolutely nothing to increase demand. 

And that's why it's a bad move. 

This is the fundamental flaw in all of these suggestions you are making. Take the time to try and figure that part out. It would save both of us an enormous amount of time. 

Look it's simple. What you are trying to achieve is a BAD IDEA. It doesn't matter what path you take to get there, because they are all ways of you try to do a BAD THING. The issue is not change, but making sure that we don't make BAD CHANGES. Especially not just for the sake of changing stuff because you're under the mistaken impression that change = good. 

 

i don't see you coming up with any suggestions ¬¬

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

20 hours ago, Toppien said:

i don't see you coming up with any suggestions ¬¬

Suggestion: DON'T ADD AN AUCTION HOUSE, also applies to every single suggestion that involves adding an auction house but calling it another name. 

The only way that an auction house works is to completely alter our in game economic ecosystem, create an enforcement of demand by having items that degrade or need to be replaced. And that's going to be a complete disaster at this point.

[Toppien]

1 hour ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Suggestion: DON'T ADD AN AUCTION HOUSE, also applies to every single suggestion that involves adding an auction house but calling it another name. 

The only way that an auction house works is to completely alter our in game economic ecosystem, create an enforcement of demand by having items that degrade or need to be replaced. And that's going to be a complete disaster at this point.

its OK if you don't want the action house, but c'mon its not going to alter anything, people already commit the same practices auction houses are plagued off, people already buy stuff at very low prices and then sell them higher, there's already over abundance of items, prime warframes and weapons used to be sold, AT THE LEAST for more than 150-600 plats, now you want to sell anything, prices go as low as 50 plats at most for weapons and 100 plats or less for warframes, the economy of the game is already fked,

mostly fault of rivens since all platinum goes there nowadays, warframe economy is so fked up that when 3rd party software for a riven market appeared, they were literally threatened on to submission by the riven mafia, its a monopoly out there and is being controlled by a group that actively doesn't want an auction house in any form.

an auction house its not going to change the unfairness of the so beloved "free market" its just going to make it more automatized, more convenient so people wont have to sit like idiots 1 hour per day just looking at a chat NOT PLAYING THE GAME.

now the biggest thing you keep mentioning, the lack of demand, that could be easily resolved by more systems asking for ducats, or the auction house asking for ducats as taxes (similar to how we use credits), to get ducats you need to get rid of prime parts, and even if you don't sell prime parts on the AH you would have to farm prime parts still so you can trade mods/rivens/any other item, they could ask for pretty high quantities of ducats so you have to farm a lot, also making a time window so other sellers get their chance at selling, that alone could reduce the amount of supply people have, but you don't want to think of that, you just cry "prices will go low" "my free market" and so on and so on..

the game needs a change in the economy, an auction house that could ask you to reduce your supply by paying ducat taxes for you to use limited chances at trade is more than enough to keep the status quo but also make it more convenient for players without relying on 3rd party sites.

Edited January 20, 2020 by Toppien

[Toppien]

also ember is ok she now has utility on end game content, but i don't think we should manage multiple topics on a single thread

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

36 minutes ago, Toppien said:

its OK if you don't want the action house, but c'mon its not going to alter anything, people already commit the same practices auction houses are plagued off, people already buy stuff at very low prices and then sell them higher, there's already over abundance of items, prime warframes and weapons used to be sold, AT THE LEAST for more than 150-600 plats, now you want to sell anything, prices go as low as 50 plats at most for weapons and 100 plats or less for warframes, the economy of the game is already fked,

FFS. 

You don't get it. Not even close to correct. 

The auction house is a way for greedy fools to increase their ability to supply items, because they think that they will get rich overnight. If they can reach a larger audience, then surely someone will buy the junk.... Or so they think. 

What they don't realize is that nobody is buying because we don't want what they're selling. And if they're lucky enough to have something good that goes for 50p, well so do millions of other people. 

So we all list it for 50p, right? NO! Because someone is desperate for that sweet sweet plat. So they list for 45p. And that opens the floodgates. Everyone has the same idea. Sell for less than 50 or it won't sell! So we all go 45p....then 30.... 25...20...18?...no 14.... It only ends when we hit prime junk prices. 

Now realize that it's going to be like that for EVERY SINGLE ITEM. 

Capiche? 

[Toppien]

43 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

FFS. 

You don't get it. Not even close to correct. 

The auction house is a way for greedy fools to increase their ability to supply items, because they think that they will get rich overnight. If they can reach a larger audience, then surely someone will buy the junk.... Or so they think. 

What they don't realize is that nobody is buying because we don't want what they're selling. And if they're lucky enough to have something good that goes for 50p, well so do millions of other people. 

So we all list it for 50p, right? NO! Because someone is desperate for that sweet sweet plat. So they list for 45p. And that opens the floodgates. Everyone has the same idea. Sell for less than 50 or it won't sell! So we all go 45p....then 30.... 25...20...18?...no 14.... It only ends when we hit prime junk prices. 

Now realize that it's going to be like that for EVERY SINGLE ITEM. 

Capiche? 

isnt that what is happening already? XD wtf did i told you, that tendency isn't going to change, people are already selling stuff incredible cheap, on our current system already, no longer buying primes, cuz they already have them, now the only solution for that is to reduce the quantity of items circulating the market, how do you do that? YOU OFFER THEM TO THE VOID, (no im being serious) you eliminate supply in the same way supply is coming up infinitely generating scarcity of items, making them more valuable

the game's economy is already going downhill even with the current system, the auction house charging taxes in the nature of the same kind of items you are selling, could act as an excuse to get rid of the excessive items without them being sold to other players, you make basically a countermeasure for the people wanting to sell cheap stuff, how?

well the player selling 1 item for 5 plats gets their item sold sure, but with the tax system in place he needs to invest say, an equivalent of 10 times the value of that item in ducats, say he will need to invest 500-1000 or more ducats as tax for even offering the item, not accounting also the limit of X items being sold per day, so he cant keep overflowing the market with cheap items, eventually he will run out of parts, cuz he will throw all those extra garbage items in the form of ducats to the void, same with everyone having the same idea, eventually selling stuff cheap will leave you with nothing else to sell really fast, faster than you can actually get more, forcing people to up the prices, so they can make their effort worth, cheap items will go first and fast.

with cheap sellers now farming more parts so they can keep selling, no longer in the system, people will be left with the more expensive items on sale, get it? it will not eliminate the problem but it will leave it pretty hard to abuse of that practice, even i venture to say it will boost the prices of everything, kinda like what taxes do on the real economy.

Edited January 20, 2020 by Toppien

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

5 minutes ago, Toppien said:

isnt that what is happening already? XD wtf did i told you, that tendency isn't going to change, people are already selling stuff incredible cheap, on our current system already, no longer buying primes, cuz they already have them, now the only solution for that is to reduce the quantity of items circulating the market, how do you do that? YOU OFFER THEM TO THE VOID, (no im being serious) you eliminate supply in the same way supply is coming up infinitely generating scarcity of items, making them more valuable

Yes, but to a lesser extent, because at any given time there's a sharp limit on the number of sellers at any given time. 

Auction house takes that limit away.

 

Even if you try to enforce scarcity, recall that supply is potentially infinite. Demand is extremely finite. 

Until that simple fact changes..... The idea is always going to lead to catastrophic failure. 

 

 

 

[Toppien]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Yes, but to a lesser extent, because at any given time there's a sharp limit on the number of sellers at any given time. 

Auction house takes that limit away.

 

Even if you try to enforce scarcity, recall that supply is potentially infinite. Demand is extremely finite. 

Until that simple fact changes..... The idea is always going to lead to catastrophic failure. 

 

 

 

but not if scarcity scales more than demand, that is why im telling you that charging a really high tax on items will make any number of cheap sellers run out of stock real fast, leaving people with more expensive items on the front.

now ok i get what are u getting at, the auction house will make sales available to everyone, skyrocketing sellers, WRONG!

if you want to sell an item you need to play a lot more (farm the tax) so you can afford selling such item, so for you to sell 10 items or 1 you need to invest the worth of 100 items or 10 more to be able to enter the market, making less people participate in it. just by the price of entry or by the amount of time you need before you can make more sales.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

30 minutes ago, Toppien said:

but not if scarcity scales more than demand, that is why im telling you that charging a really high tax on items will make any number of cheap sellers run out of stock real fast, leaving people with more expensive items on the front.

Ok so we try again. 

We both already have Braton prime. Do you want to buy another? What about if Braton Prime got vaulted for 3 years? Would you want to buy it then?

Yeah, me neither. Because scarcity doesn't create demand in this game. In most cases, only time for new people to come along who may be interested in buying it does that. 

And guess what, because you saturated the market, by dropping prices, you are going to have to wait quite a while. And during time? Anything unvaulted is being farmed by the exact same people who bought the items cheap, and all the other players who already have it. 

 

Infinite Supply. Finite Demand. 

46 minutes ago, Toppien said:

if you want to sell an item you need to play a lot more (farm the tax) so you can afford selling such item, so for you to sell 10 items or 1 you need to invest the worth of 100 items or 10 more to be able to enter the market, making less people participate in it. just by the price of entry or by the amount of time you need before you can make more sales.

You just killed your f2p playerbase. You played yourself. 

[Toppien]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Ok so we try again. 

We both already have Braton prime. Do you want to buy another? What about if Braton Prime got vaulted for 3 years? Would you want to buy it then?

Yeah, me neither. Because scarcity doesn't create demand in this game. In most cases, only time for new people to come along who may be interested in buying it does that. 

And guess what, because you saturated the market, by dropping prices, you are going to have to wait quite a while. And during time? Anything unvaulted is being farmed by the exact same people who bought the items cheap, and all the other players who already have it. 

 

Infinite Supply. Finite Demand. 

You just killed your f2p playerbase. You played yourself. 

but you don't even consider new players demand is not static in this case, it refreshes itself overtime, by new players and old players that don't have the new items and are coming back

demand in this case is not finite, how do you think DE has been afloat for 7 years?

now in the case of the tax, why not making it reactive to how many players are active on the market at the time? too many players? the tax is higher, not many players, the tax drops, that way you keep the quantity of sellers in check, but you don't suffocate them either