Reactor Differences are too much

[DarkRuler2500]

There are Zetki, Vidar and Lavan reactors MK3 in the Veil. Everyone wants Vidar or - at least - a Lavan reactor but is disappointed if it turns out to be a Zetki one.

Why?

• Lavan: 20 - 70
• Vidar: 30 - 100
• Zetki: 10 - 50

A Zetki reactor will have like 50% lower total avionic capacity. Ok, DE gave them more Flux capacity but what might that help? If you dont have the points to slot in the avionics what do you even need Flux Capacity for? I am still using a Vidar MK2 reactor because it gives me more avionics than every Zetki MK3 reactor I've dropped so far.

A suggestion

Make all reactors have the same avionic count. The way of differentiating the reactors might be the way they work with Flux Energy.

• Lavan: Slight Flux Capacity increase. Battle Avionics cost 25% less to cast.
• Zetki: Huge Flux Capacity increase
• Vidar: Slight Flux Capacity increase: Tactical Avionics cost 25% less to cast.

What do you think of my idea?

[General-Pacman]

I like this idea tbh. I don't mind the reactors having random stats, except for the avionics capacity. That single thing is like the big final hurdle to be able to build your railjack properly;  and having it blocked by RNG instead of effort is kinda frustrating.

[Marvelous_A]

Or DE should realize that fact that you can trade avionic capacity for flux on Vidar reactor, but not the opposite on Zekti, essentially making Zekti an inferior reactor coz it has lower avionic capacity than the default reactor from Dojo research.

[DarkRuler2500]

vor 18 Minuten schrieb General-Pacman:

I like this idea tbh. I don't mind the reactors having random stats, except for the avionics capacity. That single thing is like the big final hurdle to be able to build your railjack properly;  and having it blocked by RNG instead of effort is kinda frustrating.

Same, a simple level-RNG is ok.
But having RNG whether a reactor drops, then RNG whether its Lavan/Zetki/Vidar and then RNG whether it has good values... thats too much.

vor 18 Minuten schrieb Marvelous_A:

Or DE should realize that fact that you can trade avionic capacity for flux on Vidar reactor, but not the opposite on Zekti, essentially making Zekti an inferior reactor coz it has lower avionic capacity than the default reactor from Dojo research.

You mean the +Flux Avionic right? Yeah, that's a thing too.

[Furybone]

IMO flux cap is a dead stat. you can craft it mid mission and you don't use that much of it.

Zetki reactor s have that auto repair thing going for them, which is nice but they should really have around 60 cap,

 

Might be interesting to see them improve the levels of avionics by another point or 2. That way you can get good stats without huge cost from 7 rank avionics. Or get even more out of those ones for some really specialist builds.

[DarkRuler2500]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb Furybone:

Zetki reactor s have that auto repair thing going for them

Can you explan what you mean?
I cannot find a clue on the wiki about auto-repair Zetki reactors.

[taiiat]

i'd probably also prefer to unify the Mod Points Reactors award, since there is absolutely nothing worth giving up Mod Points for.
however definitely expand the possibilities for what Reactors can offer to more than just renamed Energy Efficiency... because that's not even that big a deal.
as we have passive traits and Perks on them, and they could offer much more than just Energy Efficiency.

in trade ofcourse i imagine all Reactor types would have equal drop shares but Reactors would be far rarer to drop overall, to compensate. which would be sort of okay.

[0_The_F00l]

I would like if they actually had bonuses equal to or better than two maxed avionics and affects the avionics cost of specific types.

Eg 

Zetki : 30 to 60 capacity.

Bonus : 150% damage to turrets, 20% bonus Crit chance. 

Zetki avionics  require 65% the capacity. 

Lavan :

45 to 75 capacity

Bonus : 50% bonus speed to engines and 25% boost speed. 

Lavan avionics require half the capacity. 

Vidar :

65 to 90 capacity 

Bonus : Flux usage cost is reduced by 30%, tactical cool down reduced by 25%

Vidar avionics require 90% the capacity. 

 

 

Edited January 10, 2020 by 0_The_F00l

[(PSN)robotwars7]

you'd think one of the first fixes would have been for this, but no. they doubled the drop chance of a Vidar Mk3 from 2% to 4%, but that's not really an improvement when you need the perfect 100 cap roll. and yes, I do use the word "need" carefully. if it were possible to have a full railjack loadout with maxed avionics and full battle and tactical avionics without needing a Vidar, and people were doing it just for bonus capacity they might want later on when more avionics get added, that would be different. as it stands however, those wanting a fully decked out railjack need to get a Vidar Mk3, or get used to seeing empty mod slots.

tying what is essentially mod capacity to RNG was a terrible idea. they could fix the problem simply by making capacity identical on all reactors: +50 for Mk1, +75 for Mk2 and +100 for Mk3, and have the houses give different bonuses for Battle, Tactical and Integrated Avionics respectively.

[DarkRuler2500]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb (PS4)robotwars7:

they could fix the problem simply by making capacity identical on all reactors: +50 for Mk1, +75 for Mk2 and +100 for Mk3, and have the houses give different bonuses for Battle, Tactical and Integrated Avionics respectively.

I'd like that too.

 

vor 3 Stunden schrieb 0_The_F00l:

Zetki : 30 to 60 capacity.

Bonus : 150% damage to turrets, 20% bonus Crit chance. 

Zetki avionics  require 65% the capacity. 

Lavan :

45 to 75 capacity

Bonus : 50% bonus speed to engines and 25% boost speed. 

Lavan avionics require half the capacity. 

Vidar :

65 to 90 capacity 

Bonus : Flux usage cost is reduced by 30%, tactical cool down reduced by 25%

Vidar avionics require 90% the capacity. 

This house dependant bonuses might sound nice.
However I believe that DE will refuse to work on something that complicated with -X% here, -Y% there and -Z% on that one.

[0_The_F00l]

Just now, DarkRuler2500 said:

.

This house dependant bonuses might sound nice.

However I believe that DE will refuse to work on something that complicated with -X% here, -Y% there and -Z% on that one.

Although I understand it, I dislike the excuse of "too much effort needed" even though it is one of DEs most preferred responses. 

Though honestly it is not any different than using forma on Warframes, and the current random bonuses (which can be borderline useless) so not sure how it would be more complex. 

[ThorienKELL]

You're on the right track, but your math differences are not well thought out imo.
In short differences should be less than they are now and all reactors should be better
Anything below 50 cap is useless. 

Zetki Should have around 60 avionics on average (+/- 15) and bonus to flux 25%
Lavan should have 70 avionics average +/- 15 and some other bonus (boost speed?)
Vidar Should have 80 avionics +/- 15 and some other bonus (tactical avionics?)

All of them should be upgrade to sigma, which should be basic one. 

Edited January 10, 2020 by ThorienKELL

[Chewarette]

7 hours ago, DarkRuler2500 said:

Can you explan what you mean?
I cannot find a clue on the wiki about auto-repair Zetki reactors.

He means the random bonuses.

Effect	House	Component¹
Convert 100% consumed flux energy to shields	Lavan	Shield
Shields replenish 50x faster while cloaked	Lavan	Shield
30% of Shield Damage is diverted to increase Turret Damage by up to 300 for the next shot fired	Vidar	Shield
Every 10s, shields apply an Electrical proc to all enemies within 50m	Vidar	Shield
Redirect 50 Energy to Shields with every kill	Vidar	Shield
+25% Railjack damage while shield depleted	Zetki	Shield
+10% Tenno shields on Railjack	Zetki	Shield
+20% Top Speed while shields are depleted	Lavan	Engines
Tenno gain 500 overshields after being launched from the Slingshot	Lavan	Engines
+50% boost speed while shield depleted	Vidar	Engines
-10% Intruders armor	Vidar	Engines
+50% shield regeneration speed while boost meter is recharging	Zetki	Engines
+20% Tenno weapon damage onboard Railjack	Zetki	Engines
Increase shields by 50 for each point of unused Avionics Capacity	Lavan	Reactor
Tenno gain 50% Damage increase for 5s after being launched from the Slingshot	Lavan	Reactor
+100% damage immunity duration after a Major Breach is repaired	Vidar	Reactor
Tenno gain 50% Speed Boost for 5s when deploying their Archwing	Vidar	Reactor
+10% Chance to auto-repair a minor breach after 10 seconds	Zetki	Reactor
50% chance to extinguish fire after 5 seconds	Zetki	Reactor

[Oreades]

8 hours ago, Furybone said:

IMO flux cap is a dead stat. you can craft it mid mission and you don't use that much of it.

Zetki reactor s have that auto repair thing going for them, which is nice but they should really have around 60 cap,

 

Might be interesting to see them improve the levels of avionics by another point or 2. That way you can get good stats without huge cost from 7 rank avionics. Or get even more out of those ones for some really specialist builds.

I could not agree more, 

Between the how easy it is to recoup via the forge and the fact that so many of the mods that use it are so lackluster..... having more than 100 (the base you get with a MKIII researched reactor) seems like more than I will ever need let alone want to use on the regular. 

Then you figure for the reactors that actually give you bonus flux at like +200..... like two more casts before you have to interact with the forge again is some huge boon...... 

[Anthraxicus]

Reactor could also provides bonuses when paired with other parts of the same house. 

 

A Zekti Reactor could decrease heat accretion of Zekti guns....or increase boost of the engine. Something like that.

[Fleuria]

I've seen someone use a zetki reactor to good effect.

Instead of "robust ship with high damage turrets", the approach was to use battle and tactical avionics and ordinance. It worked surprisingly well.

[Zalabim]

Shield arrays have three different independent variables. Four if you include the house specific bonuses. It's a pain to sort through. I can't even be bothered to check if the house tradeoffs are balanced. The shield boosting avionics are clearly awful though.

Engines have two variables, speed and boost, which is about the limit of my patience. The house tradeoffs favor speed over boost, but looking at the % bonuses instead of absolute values explains that pretty easily. Engines go up to ~100% speed (vidar) and only up to 30% boost (lavan). Of course top speed is better. You get way more of it. Compounding with that, avionics give boost cheaper than they give more base speed.

Only one variable matters for reactors, and that's a clear design issue. Flux energy is even being restored by energy orbs. Flux capacity is meaningless right now. Reactors definitely need normalized avionics values through the houses, either a fixed bonus or a variable is fine as long as they all have the same ones. Then they can have trades like avionics power, range, duration, cooldown, energy regen, or boost meter stats. Just something that players can feel is optional.

[Mr.Fluffins]

I believe that something as important as avionics (mod capacity for your everything, damage, hp, abilities, utility) should have never been subject to RNG stats, and having ranges like 30 - 100 is just complete madness in my opinion. This stuff should be re-designed before it's too late and too many people get used to 80+ avionics reactors.

Edited January 14, 2020 by Mr.Fluffins

[Mephane]

On 2020-01-10 at 4:42 AM, DarkRuler2500 said:

Make all reactors have the same avionic count. The way of differentiating the reactors might be the way they work with Flux Energy.

• Lavan: Slight Flux Capacity increase. Battle Avionics cost 25% less to cast.
• Zetki: Huge Flux Capacity increase
• Vidar: Slight Flux Capacity increase: Tactical Avionics cost 25% less to cast.

I've had a similar idea, however I would give the reactors passive flux energy regeneration, and differentiate them by capacity and regeneration rate.

[Elenortirie]

1 hour ago, Mephane said:

I've had a similar idea, however I would give the reactors passive flux energy regeneration, and differentiate them by capacity and regeneration rate.

that's a very good idea actually - because well "reactors" usually are used to generate energy to run things, so it would be logical for them to actually do that.

and define how many things you can actually plug in to it just by it's tech level (mark 1,2,3,..) not specific reactor model 🙂

[Skaleek]

I still think they should make capacity static to the tier of reactors: ie t1= 20, t2 = 50, t3 =100. Then create flux efficiency vs flux strength or something. Since the railjack powers already scale so poorly, it would incentivize the use of zetki reactors if it pumped up the power of your abilities to the point where seeker volley was relevant in the veil. On the other hand, efficiency would mean you get more abilities for your flux, so it would incentivize the use of CC abilities, ie blackout pulse, void hole, tether, etc.

It is at that point that people would choose vidar reactor for cc abilities, zetki reactor for damaging abilities, and lavan for a balance between both. Pay me DE. I've got plenty more, you can have that one for free.

Edited January 14, 2020 by Skaleek

[(XBOX)FNehJol3]

With the limited variety of avionics (relatively), and upgrades to avionics slots, dirac will eventually become useless. Perhaps DE should allow for re-rolling components/weapons using dirac, much the same as using kuva to re-roll rivens.

[Currilicious]

I never understood the train of thought behind making a rare item, that's supposed to be some kind of holy grail, roll so bad it literally becomes a stinking pile of excrement. Is there an experiment on masochism going on here? Or an application of sadism?

[Educated_Beast]

It is very bad reactor design to choose between flux and capacity.  Seriously, if the engineer was a grineer, he would be destroyed and never cloned again.  A Corpus would have his entire family brought into slavery. 

You can make flux on the ship in the mission.  You would have to be mentally challenged to think a low capacity reactors with high flux is a good deal.  

DE needs to stop being stubborn and prideful and fix this asap.  It is the worst problem of railjack and prevents any future.  All capacity needs to be same on all houses for a M3.  

Then you can trade things like:

- Flux versus artillery damage

- Flux versus armor

- Flux versus speed / boost

- random quirks are ok and can even be fun since most of them mediocre anyway and nice to haves

 

I prefer none of these random but have a low, medium, high tradoffs on each bonus with the medium being most common so searching for that ideal reactor can be the challenge.  

Then you could also introduce a new line what you are talking about above.  Possibilities are endless and would encourage customization and personalization but capacity, just like it is for warframes, is constant and known.  

Then maybe we could get configuration tabs as well.  

Edited January 14, 2020 by Educated_Beast

[KnossosTNC]

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