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Sentient caches are ruining the anomaly missions


Cerikus
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Ok... so earlier today I made this post.

Coincidentally I actually did have some time and desire to play today so I cought the anomaly twice. ("spoiler alert" - my desire is absolutely gone)

It was the most AWFUL experience ever. Without a super powerful railjack you CANNOT do this solo, so you have to play coop. 

And literally every mission goes like this:

People run through the ship, find nothing, disconnect and leave me alone in the mission, so i disconnect as well. 

AWFUL! This has to change.

DE please, I recommend this:

Make it so it is similar to finding caches in starchart missions. You have 3 caches guaranteed in the sentient ship. You find 1 - rotation A, 2 - B and 3 - C. 

You do NOT show what it is until the end of the mission and give the caches decent dropchances.

You absolutely must fix it. Currently it's unplayable and I am not willing to conform to this horrible playstyle of "If I don't get the drop I am disconnecting" 

I actually LOVE the sentient ship design and I want to play it, but I am currently unable.

 

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Just now, Chewarette said:

Or the Sentient Anomaly should spawn at the end of the mission. All objectives complete, Cephalon Cy detects something to be investigated on.

Also possible. Or the mission should not have any objectives apart from the anomaly. So people get the rewards. 

Like.. it is literally fixable in any way, but DE have to actually fix it.... 

AND REALLY FAST.

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While the problem does exist and i'm sure DE will adress it, you should for the time being use recruit chat and make sure to tell what players should do, ask if it's ok and wait for everyone to reply in chat.

If someone does something they did not agree to, send the chat log to support claiming that a user mislead the team intentionally, report said player with the chat log attatched and any screens you find relevant.

Will it make the mission start a drag? yes, you need to dicatate roles, you need to state that sentient ship is for last, you may need to replace users in the squad, you need to wait for replies, but i assure you, been doing this since the start, never had issues during the mission, the most problematic aspect is sometimes replacing players or disbanding squad because someone refuses to leave. Some players do not enjoy being replaced when the statements such as "dude, let's just rush the ship 1st" makes them unreliable to be in a team.

Warframe isn't just 3 or 4 players, we are many, so search players with the mentality of completing missions, don't take players competing for the highest quit rate seriously, thay are not worth the effort, just dismiss them before the mission and get someone worthwhile.

Edited by KIREEK
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1 minute ago, KIREEK said:

While the problem does exist and i'm sure DE will adress it, you should for the time being use recruit chat and make sure to tell what players should do, ask if it's ok and wait for everyone to reply in chat.

If someone does something they did not agree to, send the chat log to support claiming that a user mislead the team intentionally, report said player with the chat log attatched and any screens you find relevant.

Will it make the mission start a drag? yes, you need to dicatate roles, you need to state that sentient ship is for last, you may need to replace users in the squad, you need to wait for replies, but i assure you, been doin this since the start, never had issues during the mission, the most problematic aspect is sometimes replacing players or disbanding squad because someone refuses to leave. Some players do not enjoy being replaced when the statements such as "dude, let's just rush the ship 1st" makes them unreliable to be in a team.

Warframe isn't just 3 or 4 players, we are many, so search players with the mentality of completing missions, don't take players competing for the highest quit rate seriously, thay are not worth the effort, just dismiss them before the mission and get someone worthwhile.

Sorry, but no. 

If a game design forces me to create squads for something that should not need premade squad and I have to force people into roles and then I need to hope they will not "betray" me and the if they do I have to report them to the "police", then it is 100% a bad desing and I will not play it until it's fixed.

Besides.. I doubt you can easily do this, when you have to wait 2,5 hours for the anomaly to appear and then you have only 30 minutes to play it.

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1 minute ago, Cerikus said:

Sorry, but no. 

If a game design forces me to create squads for something that should not need premade squad and I have to force people into roles and then I need to hope they will not "betray" me and the if they do I have to report them to the "police", then it is 100% a bad desing and I will not play it until it's fixed.

Besides.. I doubt you can easily do this, when you have to wait 2,5 hours for the anomaly to appear and then you have only 30 minutes to play it.

it will be fixed, i'm giving you a solution for now

30 minutes is enough time to recruit and find the mission to do it once, maybe twice if lucky

Edited by KIREEK
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5 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

Warframe isn't just 3 or 4 players, we are many, so search players with the mentality of completing missions, don't take players competing for the highest quit rate seriously, thay are not worth the effort, just dismiss them before the mission and get someone worthwhile.

Also.. we are not many... So many players left Warframe for good recently that I have to spend one minute mashing a veil node just to get in some mission.

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yet more waste time in the veil cos the sentient anomoly ephemra hunters pls for the love of god change this so that we dont ahve to waste 20 mins finding a group of like minded people who want to complete these missions so many ppl just abandon  after searching for the rare cache and screw the rest of the squad over. there has been some good suggestions on how to fix any one would do but something must be done  or i wont be playing railjack any more

 

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36 minutes ago, (XB1)Kuhl MC said:

Yeah, it's a real pain, mainly because DE cannot help themselves but constantly lock desireable loot behind abysmally low drop rates...

And yet, they ask why we don't enjoy the content they provide, always the lock x behind x amount of grind, then behind RNG, etc.

List goes on...

 

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1 minute ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

And yet, they ask why we don't enjoy the content they provide, always the lock x behind x amount of grind, then behind RNG, etc.

 

41 minutes ago, (XB1)Kuhl MC said:

Yeah, it's a real pain, mainly because DE cannot help themselves but constantly lock desireable loot behind abysmally low drop rates...

Well frankly, the problem is the exaggeration in DE. Tenebrous Ephemera locked behind RNG ? Fine. Behind time-gating ? Alright. Behind huge grind ? M'okay.

Behind all those 3 ? Lol nope.

Sentient Anomaly has to be up => Time-gate

Have to find a rare cache (huge RNG, hence grind)

Cache has to contain the Ephemera (huge RNG², hence grind²)

I know this thing will solve itself once the New War is there, but for the time being it's a pain in the ass both for people who want it and people who don't (oh, you wanted to play this mission where the Anomaly spawned ? Lol just wait 30 minutes for it to disappear).

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10 minutes ago, Chewarette said:

(oh, you wanted to play this mission where the Anomaly spawned ? Lol just wait 30 minutes for it to disappear).

Yes exactly!

Perosnally I play this game for the fun not for the grind and gear. (it is true that I am a collector and I eventually want to have everything, but I am not pushing for it)

Currently I want to play the sentient anomalies because I LOVE the tileset and I love the mission.

and I literally cannot play it

The design basically punishes you for not being a super grining moron.

Edited by Cerikus
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It's like 20min on one mission every three hours. Honestly it's no huge issue and if you find either a shedu part or the ephemera you're pretty much guaranteed that people will stay till the end of mission. 

Otherwise there really is no point in staying if you can give it another shot

The real issue and what makes this mission turn out how it does is that

>>>IT IS TIME SENSITIVE<<<

Every time critical mission type over the course of warframe history has been butts and encouraged undesirable behavior.

Honestly the answer isn't punishing people into completing it by ensuring you only have VUN UND ONLY VUN shot per cycle.... it's getting rid of the cycles all together. 

It won't totally cure it but there won't be nearly the cumpultuon to try to get multiple attempts into the current anemic window of opportunity. So it should mellow significantly.

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1 hour ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

The trick is to use archwing, not your railjack even if you had it maxed.

But this is the same story all the time. "Just skip the content in a different way". NO. I refuse to tolerate unpolished design by skipping it. I will not play it until it's fixed.

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25 minutes ago, Oreades said:

It's like 20min on one mission every three hours. Honestly it's no huge issue and if you find either a shedu part or the ephemera you're pretty much guaranteed that people will stay till the end of mission. 

Otherwise there really is no point in staying if you can give it another shot

The real issue and what makes this mission turn out how it does is that

>>>IT IS TIME SENSITIVE<<<

Every time critical mission type over the course of warframe history has been butts and encouraged undesirable behavior.

Honestly the answer isn't punishing people into completing it by ensuring you only have VUN UND ONLY VUN shot per cycle.... it's getting rid of the cycles all together. 

It won't totally cure it but there won't be nearly the cumpultuon to try to get multiple attempts into the current anemic window of opportunity. So it should mellow significantly.

Yes the cycles have to go, I 100% agree with that, but I strongly disagree with the opinion that it would be "punishing people into completing the mission".

If you as a game dev have a system where people somehow can skip it. You cannot do something that will "lower the number of people that do it", you gotta rethink the whole thing and fix it so people actually do not do it. 

If there is just one person that disconnects, becouse it can save them 1 minute, it IS a bad design.

The answer is the most easily fixable thing ever and it is the thing that this game needs:

DE needs to fix the droptables. And I do not mean only in veil. I mean all the droptables all over the game obviously.

If people have something to gain from staying, they will stay. And if it is a good strategy to disconnect, they will disconnect.

So either give them something valuable every time they do the mission or force them to finish the mission by giving the reward at the end.

Btw. This exact issue happened with the Zeloid Assassination. People were leaving before extracting, because the did not want the part that droped, thus breaking the whole event. DE fortunately fixed that very soon. They have to do that here as well.

Edited by Cerikus
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3 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

Yes the cycles have to go, I 100% agree with that, but I strongly disagree with the opinion that it would be "punishing people into completing the mission".

If you as a game dev have a system where people somehow can skip it. You cannot do something that will "lower the number of people that do it", you gotta rethink the whole thing and fix it so people actually do not do it. 

If there is just one person that disconnects, becouse it can save them 1 minute, it IS a bad design.

The answer is the most easily fixable thing ever and it is the thing that this game needs:

DE needs to fix the droptables. And I do not mean only in veil. I mean all the droptables all over the game obviously.

If people have something to gain from staying, they will stay. And if it is a good strategy to disconnect, they will disconnect.

So either give them something valuable every time they do the mission or force them to finish the mission by giving the reward at the end.

Btw. This exact issue happened with the Zeloid Assassination. People were leaving before extracting, because the did not want the part that droped, thus breaking the whole event. DE fortunately fixed that very soon. They have to that here as well.

Honestly speaking when the new war rolls around this will become a non issue. Everyone and their dog will be rolling in unwanted shedu parts and finding the rare cache will be a secondary consideration. 

At that point they can completely disable the anomaly because all it serves as was a preview and possibly early tested for the sentient faction. 

Sorta why I don't stress over the umbral forma. Right now they just aren't worth it since there really isn't much mod variance and when there will be odds are they will be both readily available in game as well as a probable cash shop item. 

I guess there just doesn't seem like much of a fix for a mcguffin that is going to be either outmoded or completely removed. 

I just hope that the eventually learn that cyclically timed events aren't exactly player friendly nor do they encourage friendly gameplay. I mean heck that's why they removed alerts after all.

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18 minutes ago, Oreades said:

Honestly speaking when the new war rolls around this will become a non issue. Everyone and their dog will be rolling in unwanted shedu parts and finding the rare cache will be a secondary consideration. 

How do you know that?

Also... Just because it may change in the future, we should just accept when something is broken right now?

"Here, I will sell you uncooked meal. Yes you hate it, but I may be cooking a decent meal in the future... "

18 minutes ago, Oreades said:

Sorta why I don't stress over the umbral forma.

I literally said, that I too do not care about the caches and all the drops . I just wanted to play the new mission type on a new tileset and that was all, but all my attempts to do so were completely ruined. That and only that is my complaint.

We have to stop judging Warframe based on the things that may happen in the future and start to judge it based on the thing that are actually out.

Edited by Cerikus
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43 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

How do you know that?

Also... Just because it may change in the future, we should just accept when something is broken right now?

"Here, I will sell you uncooked meal. Yes you hate it, but I may be cooking a decent meal in the future... "

I literally said, that I too do not care about the caches and all the drops . I just wanted to play the new mission type on a new tileset and that was all, but all my attempts to do so were completely ruined. That and only that is my complaint.

We have to stop judging Warframe based on the things that may happen in the future and start to judge it based on the thing that are actually out.

Because they aren't just going to nix the enemy that drops the shedu parts nor are they going to nix the drop table. 

It will go from a rare occurrence to common fodder. 

All in all there is no new game mode. Just a standard substandard exterminate, I will give you on a new tile set but eh. Once The new war comes out that tileset will go from an inconvenience to a standard tile. 

It is arguably not a great implementation but more of an appetizer than anything else.

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People's crazy, compulsive behavior is ruining it.

Why would anyone repeat the same alienating 30 seconds loop again and again and again, and clearly not having any fun doing that, just for the sake of obtaining a virtual item as soon as possible? What's the point? Sounds insane to me, and i'm beginning to understand now why authorities are increasingly concerned about the unhealthy consequences of video games addiction.

Edited by Robolaser
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4 hours ago, Oreades said:

Honestly the answer isn't punishing people into completing it by ensuring you only have VUN UND ONLY VUN shot per cycle.... it's getting rid of the cycles all together. 

If wishes were fishes, we'd all cast nets. I absolutely that getting rid of time-gating mechanics like these would be a net positive for the game, but DE seem to love those damn things. I thought we'd all agreed that the Cetus 2-hour Day/Night cycle was a BAD idea given that Fortuna's Cold/Warm cycle is just 20 minutes, but I guess they're still determined to use it. At the risk of exaggeration, I'm more and more starting to see Warframe in the same light as World of Tanks - a genuinely good game ruined by monetisation and retention mechanics. Grind, RNG, time-gating, dumb unlock requirements, gimmick gameplay - no matter what you want to achieve, you're going to run into some, most or sometimes even all of those and more. I've given up on Railjack for unrelated reasons, but I wouldn't have bothered with the anomaly anyway. DE have a knack for designing really cool stuff and then sucking all the fun out of them with "sustainable rewards." Bah!

 

4 hours ago, Oreades said:

I guess there just doesn't seem like much of a fix for a mcguffin that is going to be either outmoded or completely removed. 

"The New War" has been a myth for as long as I've been around. Yeah, sure - this issue might be fixed when that rolls around, but we have no idea if that'll be in a few months or a few years. In the meantime, you have an objective design which incentivises really toxic habits in ways that you can't always blame on the people engaging in them. If people only have half an hour to grind a thing every three hours, then OF COURSE they're going to want to rush through it as fast as they can. We saw this with Eidolon Hunts, and it was (is) terrible there too. Objectives like the Ephemera, the Shedu, and the two Railjack weapons are causing bad blood and cheesing people off, and I for one don't want to wait for The New War for improvements. Fix the damn event first.

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8 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

If wishes were fishes, we'd all cast nets. I absolutely that getting rid of time-gating mechanics like these would be a net positive for the game, but DE seem to love those damn things. I thought we'd all agreed that the Cetus 2-hour Day/Night cycle was a BAD idea given that Fortuna's Cold/Warm cycle is just 20 minutes, but I guess they're still determined to use it. At the risk of exaggeration, I'm more and more starting to see Warframe in the same light as World of Tanks - a genuinely good game ruined by monetisation and retention mechanics. Grind, RNG, time-gating, dumb unlock requirements, gimmick gameplay - no matter what you want to achieve, you're going to run into some, most or sometimes even all of those and more. I've given up on Railjack for unrelated reasons, but I wouldn't have bothered with the anomaly anyway. DE have a knack for designing really cool stuff and then sucking all the fun out of them with "sustainable rewards." Bah!

 

"The New War" has been a myth for as long as I've been around. Yeah, sure - this issue might be fixed when that rolls around, but we have no idea if that'll be in a few months or a few years. In the meantime, you have an objective design which incentivises really toxic habits in ways that you can't always blame on the people engaging in them. If people only have half an hour to grind a thing every three hours, then OF COURSE they're going to want to rush through it as fast as they can. We saw this with Eidolon Hunts, and it was (is) terrible there too. Objectives like the Ephemera, the Shedu, and the two Railjack weapons are causing bad blood and cheesing people off, and I for one don't want to wait for The New War for improvements. Fix the damn event first.

Waaait there are railjack weapons? 

Like I said you can only really fix the event by getting rid of the cycle. Because anything else is just going to religate everyone to the bare maximum of once chance per cycle and that's going to suck harder than having people jump ship every other game. 

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