Why are people calling Intrinsic abort farming an exploit?

[dogbus]

6 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

They outright said 'this is an experiment in implementing a system like this without a cap' before.

Hadn't heard that about intrinsics. Source?

[Kaotyke]

3 minutes ago, xBloodySin said:

Except that what you should tell your friend is "there's this grind that they wanted to stretch for months, with minuscule rewards, where getting to level 9 out of 10 is half of it" and the first thing that should come to your mind is "maybe I should pick a different game with an enjoyable and rewarding grind to show them instead..."

That is a matter of taste. And how much the firend is actually telling the turth or exagerating in their saltyness.

Because I've had friends do that, about how terribly grindy or hard or booring or all of the above a game is, then when I try it out a while later I go "I dont see the issue...", this is subjective.

But having to fail the mission over and over for "better experience"? For an outsider looking in, this is not a thing that should happen. Ever.

[Loza03]

11 minutes ago, Vaeldious said:

Hadn't heard that about intrinsics. Source?

From 'Empyrean, the Journey so far'

Quote

Intrinsics are one of the first XP based progression systems we’ve released without a Daily Cap. This decision was based on feedback from our past releases, but we want to ensure our players know to strike a healthy balance when playing. Let’s take a look at the latest graph at how your Intrinsic choices have mapped out so far:

 

[Proffebolter]

In common sense that is an "exploit." Do you remember the Khora bug? Well, don't say that this is not the same. Because basically they are 2 very similar things.

It is not normal for a person who farm insight to finish abort the mission, and do it several times. That is considered an "exploit", it would be different if I plowed and finished the mission instead of abandoning it, that would be something very different.

And there have already been many users who have taken advantage of this beneficial "exploit", and as such they should know that this type of exploit must be punished. Then do not say ...... "I did not know," when there is a thing called sense of logic.

And I remember the Khora bug again, many have abused this bug and many users have been permabanned, for continuing to use this exploit with the intention of benefiting themselves, without even reporting it.

And this type of exploits, negatively affects both the gameplay and the experience of the players, and among other aspects in the game.

[Voltage]

2 hours ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Disregarding any and all lawyerly talk of whether it was or was not an exploit according to this definition, or that definition, or whether DE are somehow obliged to permit odd uses of mechanics or whatnot, DE still absolutely have the right to change how elements of the game work based on how they feel the game should work, to promote fun gameplay.

Or, in other words, the use of the mechanics in that specific fashion encouraged really dumb gameplay, gameplay which if you explained it to someone outside of the game would sound stupid as hell. So DE are removing it.

It's sad they still have to change this later and can't anticipate people farming this way. It's only been an efficient Affinity farm since Draco's removal in 2016. Remember when there was no cap on Focus? I wonder why they added a daily Focus cap...

DE needs to stop repeating the same mistakes and actually figure out underlying problems that cause these shenanigans. Affinity has always favored stealth farming and Grineer enemies.

Intrinsics do not have bonus Affinity which is why people aborted. DE really didn't put two and two together.

I'm honestly just going to quote myself:

On 2020-01-08 at 12:42 PM, Voltage said:

> DE: Releases Affinity system that doesn't scale off mission objectives and instead functions like Focus.

> Players: Farms Intrinsics just like Adaro Focus and concludes it's highly efficient.

> DE:

But seriously, DE needs to stop repeating problems and mistakes with each major update. Intrinsics are just Empyrean Focus with Mastery tied to it. It's nothing more than another Affinity system to grind through stealth leveling. DE could even be lazy by having missions completed grant a bonus of a hefty amount of Intrinsics like Eidolons have shards for Focus....

Edited January 11, 2020 by Voltage

[Chappie]

1 hour ago, Loza03 said:

thing that's received considerable negative feedback in the past - indeed, that was a large part of the complaints about Forutuna if I remember rightly, the Standing Grind and it being hard-capped. And Focus being hard-capped. They outright said 'this is an experiment in implementing a system like this without a cap' before.

Then compromise...allow people to farm to the first ~500 intrinsic as fast as they want then cap them daily.   This is enough for 7/7/7/7 and we go from there.   This way the important stuff isn't gated and possibly more lucrative stuff is gated.   This is no different than focus honestly.  The "good stuff" is less than 400k total and the rest is well...lucrative. 

[xBloodySin]

1 hour ago, Kaotyke said:

That is a matter of taste. And how much the firend is actually telling the turth or exagerating in their saltyness.

Because I've had friends do that, about how terribly grindy or hard or booring or all of the above a game is, then when I try it out a while later I go "I dont see the issue...", this is subjective.

But having to fail the mission over and over for "better experience"? For an outsider looking in, this is not a thing that should happen. Ever.

The better experience would be Intrinsics being worth the investment and having an organic improvement along with regular play you want to do. Removing the stealth farm isn't making it a better experience, it's at most pushing you into a bad experience now prolonged over months, even if all you want is the MR gain or even just to have those filled to never think about them again.

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

lol you guys can argue with me all you want, it's literally in the UI that you keep your progress with exp.  Guess they forgot to patch that out.
 

[(PSN)Quantaminum]

1 hour ago, Proffebolter said:

And I remember the Khora bug again, many have abused this bug and many users have been permabanned, for continuing to use this exploit with the intention of benefiting themselves, without even reporting it.

The only users who got banned were the ones who used macros to spam skills at a humanly impossible speed.

So, not a good example.

[BETAOPTICS]

It is an exploit because that is not how the game is supposed to work. Your reasoning for it might be right in some peoples opinion, but it can still be an exploit to an unfair system. I am not one to pass judgement when an action should lead to a ban, certainly not. I have neither the right nor the call to make that nor would I ever imply I do. However all I will say is to the exploiters to be wary of the action because there is a high chance DE will issue a ban to the account for set amount of time.

[(XBOX)Erudite Prime]

Exploit simply means "DE doesn't like it."

Whether it's an "intended feature" or not doesn't matter because Warframe is such a complex game with so many interacting mechanics, that it is genuinely impossible to know what the developer's intent is. 

[AEP8FlyBoy]

I find it funny that some players even think the Intrinsic Abort Farm is even close to being able to be classified as an exploit. As some other players have already stated, even the UI tells you that 'current progress' (meaning XP gained, among other things) you will keep upon aborting, but any bonuses such as bonus XP and mission completion items will be lost.

Spoiler

Taken from a Mercury Capture:

Taken from a Railjack Mission on Earth: 

Bonus XP isn't a thing for Intrinsic farming, meaning that it functions like normal XP gains and would still be able to be earned under a mission abort. It was not an exploit in the slightest, it was just one of the most efficient ways to grind out the immense slog of a system that Intrinsics is, and DE didn't like that it was getting attention by more players.

Furthermore,

• Fixed bug where Intrinsics could be kept on mission abort, which was never intended.

They can backpedal and say it was never intended now, but players were likely having to abort quite often for other game-breaking issues while playing Empyrean, because I know for a fact that I ran into many of them myself. We were allowed to keep our Intrinsics then, but because a type of farm streamlined that while using Mission Aborts as an actual part of the process, that's when DE stepped in just to slow down player progress. To keep us playing this bare boned, empty promise, rush of an update.

I rest my case.

Edited January 11, 2020 by AEP8FlyBoy

[(XBOX)Erudite Prime]

5 hours ago, Gabbynaru said:

they should be permabanned for it.

I truly hope you never become a video game developer. If you actually believe that people should be PERMANENTLY BANNED for making an atrocious grind slightly less hostile, then you are an enemy of the consumer, and the equivalent of a class traitor.

Edited January 11, 2020 by (XB1)Erudite Prime

[Gabbynaru]

15 minutes ago, (XB1)Erudite Prime said:

I truly hope you never become a video game developer. If you actually believe that people should be PERMANENTLY BANNED for making an atrocious grind slightly less hostile, then you are an enemy of the consumer.

I truly hope you never become a cop. If you actually believe that people should be JAILED for stealing from a shop that forgot to turn on the alarms, then you are an enemy of the public.

There, happy?

[844448]

Intrinsic gain is a static 20k exp per point and since they said they want to try a system without cap, this can be seen as exploit.

You want to say the normal mission has that? Sure, we can also adopt the normal mission calculation where you get bonus exp from finished missions, but at the same time requires more exp to get another intrinsic point (level in normal mission).

The calculation in exp needed in warframe for normal level is 1,000 x (2 x level - 1), we can adopt this kind of exp calculation where you increase the base needed from 1,000 to 10,000 so it's more beneficial to stealth kill and finish the mission for the bonus exp instead of stealth kill and abort the mission

[(XBOX)Erudite Prime]

Imagine comparing an efficient XP farm in a video game about farming to literal, actual theft of property.

Edited January 11, 2020 by (XB1)Erudite Prime

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

7 minutes ago, Gabbynaru said:

I truly hope you never become a cop. If you actually believe that people should be JAILED for stealing from a shop that forgot to turn on the alarms, then you are an enemy of the public.

There, happy?

Be hard pressed to find a court to convict if the store had a sign that said "If you leave here before paying you can keep what you can carry, but we won't carry extra stuff to the car for you"

 

[Tyreaus]

Pardon my detraction from whatever argument may be going on regarding permabanning people but...

5 hours ago, AEP8FlyBoy said:

[snippysnip]

Is this actually a thing, where you can still fail (e.g. when playing solo) and it'll keep the intrinsics, versus manual aborting? That's hilarious if so.

Edited January 11, 2020 by Tyreaus
Because whot

[(XBOX)Erudite Prime]

Just now, Tyreaus said:

Is this actually a thing

Yes, now snip your post so DE doesn't catch on.

[Tyreaus]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)Erudite Prime said:

Yes, now snip your post so DE doesn't catch on.

I'm...I don't know what to say. I'm amazed.

I mean the greatest irony is that they built the entire Lich system to kill players to "make it more interesting" and...here we are.

At least they're keeping with the theme, right?

Edited January 11, 2020 by Tyreaus

[KnightKrawlur]

The game company version of an exploit is "Not what we wanted the player to do".

Of coarse, they don't tell you what/how to do things.  But if you don't figure out what they are thinking you are in trouble.

Reminds me of a psycho girlfriend telling you "If you don't know why I'm mad, I'm not going to tell you."

Don't grind XP that way, we don't like it.

Don't have software we don't like on your computer.

Don't trade with bad people, even if we never tell you they are bad.

Etc, etc, etc.  It's insane how game companies and especially DE treat their customers.

[Helch0rn]

the defenition of an exploit in a game is using mechanics in a way that was not intended by the developers.

 

guess what: people aborting constantly to maximise their xp/hour was not intended by the devs

[tyreens]

It was not an exploit. It was part of the normal gameplay. DE just messed it up and because they think that the live servers are a great testing environment, we now got a part of the community which used that mechanic to farm efficiently and the other part doesn't find it fair. But in the end it is only DEs fault.

Edited January 12, 2020 by tyreens

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

Wether it's an exploit or not is ultimately irrelevant.  DE as any other dev team will do whatever they wish and "justify" whatever they do or do not do in anyway they see fit because they can.  To an extent arguing about the farm itself (and by that I mean the gameplay) is also not really relevant.  The root of the issue here that many arguments miss is that "nerfing/fixing" situations like this are being done poorly.  DE did with this farm the same thing they've done with everything else they've found too efficient.  They address it in such a way that either doesn't or barely effects the people who did use said methods.  But it ALWAYS directly and quite heavily harms the people who chose to play the game in the "intended" way.

This wether purposful or not is punishing said players.  And everytime they get punished it only further encourages people to find said "exploits" and use them before DE catches wind.  Because they don't want to deal with another grindy situation.  DE has a very terrible habit of bandaiding symptoms instead of addressing the actual cause of the symptoms.  DE very rarely takes a proactive approach that actually fixes things.  Melee 2.0 more or less is an example of this.  (still needs work mind you.)  and I would say early WF reworks were a great way to address the player power issue of press x button to win.  (though these days WF reworks and general design has more or less become a bandaid to other problems with the game.)

In other words DE usually only nerfs the meta.  Not change it.

[Talinthis]

they said it was unintended, and we all exploited it. pretty simple.