Feedback on various aspects of the game

[Cheizer]

  I did not want to create this topic or write anything at all, but decided to leave a small footprint. The reason for this was an aversion to this project, and this is not just a lack of desire or a biased attitude, namely disgust. Over the period of 2018 - 2020, more than 40 acquaintances and friends left Warframe. At the end of 2019, with the release of Empyrean, it was my time to say goodbye to Warframe. It occurred to me to interview my friends about why they left the project and, adding a few words from myself, made a list of the problems of the project and the reasons they (including myself) could not put up with. As is customary for most, everything is known by comparison, even if it is a comparison with the previous version.

1) Empty promises and disgusting fulfillment.
Over the years, we have heard a bunch of promises from developers about future content. This updated raids, as many as 3 spiders in the valley of spheres, melee 3.0 in the near future, a large number of cinematic quests, king ping and more. And all this remained only in words, and what was partially implemented, can be ignored due to the large number of bugs and errors, broken balance and lack of gameplay. Even the complete re-balance of Archwing and his weapons before the release of Empyrean was only in words.

2) Raw content.
We get a raw version update a little better than Pre-Alpha, and PC players are assigned as guinea pigs. Each such update can carry both minor graphic and gameplay bugs, as well as a completely idle mode and time spent (hello to everyone who lost time on Arbitrations and did not receive awards, well, on the launch of Eidolon Teralyst, and in many other missions and events). As a result, something called an update is released, and over the next centuries, if desired, the developers will somehow change (do not improve and do not re-balance, but rather somehow change until they forget about it, like Conclave, Archwing, Arbitrations , Kuva Lich and more). It feels like some of the innovations are being released simply so that there is no preliminary reflection and further development (infected room).

3) Blind re-balance
Most acquaintances noticed that the re-balance from the developers is more like “accidentally moving the sliders in the hope of getting something good”, rather than the re-balance. The global characteristics of weapons and warframes are not perceived, but statistics on the frequency of use by players are used. Moreover, depending on their desire (to weaken or strengthen) random “sliders of characteristics” move in one of the directions without thinking about the naming.

4) Complete care in the lottery.
Too much random in the game over the years. As an example: in a random group, on a Sortie consisting of random missions with random restrictions (improvements), we get a random Riven Mod for random weapons with a random chance, with a random test with random characteristics that we can randomly exchange for Kuva for other random characteristics and randomly, these characteristics can be lowered / increased randomly every 3 months. With the release of Empyrean, this became significant. As I wrote above, everything is relative. To get Rhino components, you need to kill the boss that appears 100% on the Fossa mission and at the end of the mission get one of the three components (with a chance of each ~ 33%) with a 100% chance, the characteristics of which do not depend on anything. This is not for you to pass the mission of Veil Proxima and with a 5% chance to get one of the three components that have random characteristics and most likely do not suit you. In the end result, the player receives not what he deserves or has achieved, but the opportunity to participate in the lottery. Moreover, the distribution of chances is such that it is enough for one player to participate 1 time and hit the jackpot, and another 1000 times and get a little more than nothing. Even a 50% chance does not guarantee in the game that a reward for every 2nd trip is required (using the statistical calculation mechanism, every 4th trip guarantees the probability as close as possible to 100%). At the same time, in the game these chances are lower and lower, and the farther, the sadder. Developers are adding more and more random factors for obtaining the necessary rewards (for example: from a rare box on a rare mission with a rare chance, and so on), instead of complicating the receipt through complicating the passage of missions. And the game does not divide the players according to their playing skills, but to the lucky ones and the losers.

5) Lack of systematic rewards.
At the moment, in the game all the awards for different tests and missions are identical to each other. What to go to Sortie and get Endo, what to Arbitrations and get Endo; what to go on the defensive and get a Void key or go to Veil Proxima and get a Void key. Given the lottery, the main niche in the game and in roulette described above is occupied by the same awards, namely Endo, Credits, Void key, mods. There is no taxonomy in which on one mission one type of award falls out and nothing more. As a result, almost the entire niche in roulette is filled with unnecessary junk for a developed player.

6) Increase AFK
Everyone may have a reason to absent themselves briefly during the game. But there were more cases in the game when AFK for players began to be used as a mechanic for a simple and uncomplicated method of receiving rewards and ridding oneself of the long dreary and boring process of completing tactical mission tasks. This problem could not be addressed, but the frequency of such cases is simply unbelievable. And after all, in a random group of four players, the number of AFK players can reach 3 out of 4. And a specially assembled group has to disband after the mission due to the lack of mechanics for exclusion from the group.

7) Technical support
There is no point in reporting technical support about serious problems and violations. they already have an answer: “Thank you for your feedback! The development team is already aware of this problem, and if possible it will be fixed as soon as possible. If necessary, we will contact you. ”
Unfortunately, you will have to wait this month in advance for a month (unless it is simply erased), and corrections will never be possible (which happened with my appeal about The Jordas Verdict)
Unfortunately, in 2018, problems with ports began in Russia, due to which it became impossible for users in the territory to play with other players without using a VPN, as technical support to my friends stated with full confidence. But support did not announce a possible account lockout. In case of blocking, the answer has to wait 2-4 weeks. It is worth noting that during the existence of this problem, a lot of people left the project. And only in December 2019, unexpectedly for everyone, they decided to fix this problem for the rest.

In conclusion, I want to note that there are only echoes of the thoughts of a small number of people and our opinion may not coincide with yours, so please do not react sharply and do not take it fiercely. Opinion is such a thing that you can exchange it, but stay with your own. Perhaps this topic will not be seen by developers, but if DE still sees it, I hope that they will heed the echoes of the thoughts of a small group of people who once started playing their game and left it.

[SordidDreams]

Not much to say other than 100% agreed. I've also watched friends jump ship. It makes me sad, but I guess such is the life of an online game. Nothing lasts forever.

[MaryoSlayer]

Good post

[(PSN)Double991]

It takes an experienced player that cares about this game to make such a topic. Just wanted to say that.

[(XBOX)WolfKingLeo]

understandable

[Luciole77]

agree too.

 

The game has generic "rewards" like endo/ayatan things and superficial content/temporarily.

DE needs new people developing the game....but its just my opinion.

[SenorClipClop]

I'll admit I'm frequently one of those people who chimes in with a snide "bye" in response to "I'm leaving the game" threads. Usually those kinds of threads are rips and rants about the game, hyperbolically equating disliked things with face-slapping for shock value, spinning opinion as immutable fact, and (worst of all) personally attacking the development team ("I think they should be fired", etc.). Those kinds of threads are just venting frustration, cries for attention and demanding someone care that they are no longer playing. The "bye" means we don't care that they're quitting, and that their tirade hasn't served any point. It isn't a dismissal of there being issues with the game, it's a dismissal of that player, who can't be a big boy about those issues and decides to go red in the face about them before storming off to their room.

This thread reads different. This one points out specific examples of promises not delivered, enforces opinion as opinion, respects the opinions of others and doesn't throw direct vitriol at the people who make the game for us. It doesn't demand attention or action in response to their unhappiness. It's the difference between Karen making a scene and demanding to speak to the manager, and a regular customer leaving an honest low-star review based on their experience. The first deserves dismissal, the second deserves your attention.

[-QUILL_PETER-]

1 hour ago, Cheizer said:

if DE still sees it

They 100% won't. They only allot their time to looking through Feedback in the Feedback section. You might be able to get a mod to move your thread to Feedback-General if it's really that important to you.

Edited January 12, 2020 by -QUILL_PETER-

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Usually goodbye threads are just a way for those people to think their reason for leaving is important.

But this guys reasons for leaving are actually valid.

[JackHargreav]

54 minutes ago, Cheizer said:

1) Empty promises and disgusting fulfillment.

2) Raw content.

3) Blind re-balance

4) Complete care in the lottery.
 

5) Lack of systematic rewards.

6) Increase AFK

7) Technical support
 

1st

I can't deny that I was disappointed with some updates. I understand if something gets changed a little bit but the old blood for example just straight up went against everything they wanted to do originally. They changed the entire thing without a single word. 

2nd

I personally don't have much problems with the buggy releases usually. But sometimes updates can be so broken I just have to turn off the game and calm myself. Empyrian.

3rd

The game was #*!%ed from the get go balance wise. De just doesn't seem to be able to balance the game without implementing an entirely different system.  With Empyrian I'm satisfied. With archwing in Empyrian I just want to bash my head into the wall sometimes.

But by now is it even worth it to try to implement a completely new system? I dunno.

4th

A free to play game is a free to play game. That's all I have to say.

5th

I just agree. Most of the rewards suck. That's it.

6th and 7th

I can't really comment on these. I rarely run into afk players and I've been playing for 6 years.

The russian thing I just didn't know about. Maybe there's more to it than you think. Same for reporting the violations. Of course they have an answer already. Don't see the problem with that.

Overall I more or less agree with you.

[Chicken-Biryani]

Well... At this point, in my personal opinion I don't think the game respects my time anymore. Some of my friends get what they want in a couple of runs, meanwhile I am grinding 20-30 runs and then rage quitting the game for a week or so. As some people have said to me, it's a toxic relationship and not just a game anymore. It feels very unfair to say the least. 

[(PSN)ChaosTheNerd]

This was amazing and depressing and I'm glad I'm not the only one who has seen the fact that de has not delivered on their promises at all. The ironic part is AAA games studios would have their butts ripped apart by the same people who defend DE's actions just because "dUh it's a FrEe gAmE"

[Sagittarix]

2 hours ago, Cheizer said:

We get a raw version update a little better than Pre-Alpha, and PC players are assigned as guinea pigs.

 

2 hours ago, Cheizer said:

Most acquaintances noticed that the re-balance from the developers is more like “accidentally moving the sliders in the hope of getting something good”, rather than the re-balance.

 

2 hours ago, Cheizer said:

4) Complete care in the lottery.

 

2 hours ago, Cheizer said:

5) Lack of systematic rewards.

Those are the points I can identify with most.

I think the underlying problem for a lot of this is what I believe TotalBiscuit once said: "Warframe is a castle built upon the ruins of a castle that is built upon the ruins of a castle that is built upon the ruins of a castle".

Warframe is not well-ordered. A lot of things are band aids and have "grown historically".
That's why I am a fan of Rahetalius' suggestion to make 2020 the "Year of fixing" i.e QOL changes.
Video:

Spoiler

 

 

[(PSN)corpusbonds]

Yeah, I have to agree with you. It’s really, really upsetting to me, because even though I’ve only been here three years, the game has meant a lot to me. Used to be fun, a de-stresser and a game I could just enjoy.

 But recently I keep finding myself saying, “what happened?” Just doesn’t seem the same, and that the Devs aren’t really listening anymore.

Edit: Also wanted to add that I really want to enjoy warframe again!! It’s just with the way the Devs have been taking it, I’m not sure right now.

Edited January 12, 2020 by (PS4)corpusbonds

[(PSN)ChaosTheNerd]

2 minutes ago, --C--Nehra said:

Well... At this point, in my personal opinion I don't think the game respects my time anymore. Some of my friends get what they want in a couple of runs, meanwhile I am grinding 20-30 runs and then rage quitting the game for a week or so. As some people have said to me, it's a toxic relationship and not just a game anymore. It feels very unfair to say the least. 

When a game becomes more of a job the  having fun, then it's time to call it quits for your mental state's sake.

[(PSN)ChaosTheNerd]

Another problem I'd like to address is the fact that no a large majority of this community has actually called out these massive underlying issues and instead only allowed it to continue. This is what I call enabling, when you constantly praise de for every  single thing, they will think that we will be more comfortable  with unfinished crappy updates, this simply cannot happen anymore as we have gotten 2 very controversial updates back to back, seriously we NEED to stop this for DE's sake.

 

[Chicken-Biryani]

Just now, (PS4)ChaosTheNerd said:

Another problem I'd like to address is the fact that no a large majority of this community has actually called out these massive underlying issues and instead only allowed it to continue. This is what I call enabling, when you constantly praise de for every  single thing, they will think that we will be more comfortable  with unfinished crappy updates, this simply cannot happen anymore as we have gotten 2 very controversial updates back to back, seriously we NEED to stop this for DE's sake.

What can you do... If you call out DE, then people say you are an entitled brat who doesn't understand what a free 2 play game should be. Also, many people try to get the dev attention to whatever issues they think are relevant, but as usual nobody pays any attention and it all gets drowned in the flood of more and more suggestions and call-outs and complaints (both genuine and angry rants). In my personal opinion DE has gotten tons of feedback and suggestions and the ball solely lies in their court.

[(PSN)ChaosTheNerd]

2 minutes ago, --C--Nehra said:

What can you do... If you call out DE, then people say you are an entitled brat who doesn't understand what a free 2 play game should be. Also, many people try to get the dev attention to whatever issues they think are relevant, but as usual nobody pays any attention and it all gets drowned in the flood of more and more suggestions and call-outs and complaints (both genuine and angry rants). In my personal opinion DE has gotten tons of feedback and suggestions and the ball solely lies in their court.

The certainly get a lot of feedback but they can be very VERY picky when it comes tot he type of feedback they take.

[Proffebolter]

2 hours ago, Cheizer said:

6) Increase AFK
Everyone may have a reason to absent themselves briefly during the game. But there were more cases in the game when AFK for players began to be used as a mechanic for a simple and uncomplicated method of receiving rewards and ridding oneself of the long dreary and boring process of completing tactical mission tasks. This problem could not be addressed, but the frequency of such cases is simply unbelievable. And after all, in a random group of four players, the number of AFK players can reach 3 out of 4. And a specially assembled group has to disband after the mission due to the lack of mechanics for exclusion from the group.

I totally agree with all the points. But honestly what pisses me off is the damn AFK. I understand that there are people who stay 5 minutes, because they call the phone or for other reasons why they have to leave the screen.

But in these cases it is very different, it can be called AFK, but here the right term would be the Leech, staying AFK without contributing anything to the team, while others do the work.

This is something I see very frequently in almost all game modes. I do not know if I will have very bad luck that I touch this type of users in my games. And to me sincerely and with forgiveness but I am disgusted by this kind of attitude of people. If they want to enter a game, they do contributing to the team, and if AFK stays that does not play in the games, there will be other users that they want with the intention of contributing to the team.

I've been denouncing this kind of toxic behavior in the games for quite some time now, and sent it to Support. But wait ...... there is also right, that Support takes a long time to answer.

When will they let in content that not even that content will last even 1 week? When will they fix the errors of the previous updates?

When will they let in content that not even that content will last even 1 week? When will they fix the errors of the previous updates? See in the case of liches, a very badly created system that, in addition to being tedious and very repetitive, greatly influences the RNG system and only offers weapons, and nothing else.

 

[Proffebolter]

But not only in addition to that. The problem with DE is when it comes to Bugs. While in their devstream they showed the railjack at first sight, there was no bug at first sight. But when we users play it, we discover a lot of bugs that basically in the first game you got you could discover a lot of bugs, whether or not they were intended.

Edited January 12, 2020 by Proffebolter
all edited

[(PSN)chubbslawson]

2 hours ago, -QUILL_PETER- said:

They 100% won't. They only allot their time to looking through Feedback in the Feedback section. You might be able to get a mod to move your thread to Feedback-General if it's really that important to you.

I’ve seen de respond to stuff in general feedback before,so they do read it.

[Guest]

I'm usually one of those so-called "white knights" but this one is actually a civil, well-reasoned post instead of the usual b*tching and melodrama.

[ryu-hayabusa1]

2 hours ago, Cheizer said:

-snip-

I truly respect the way you voiced your opinion +1. I think warframe needs to achieve some kind of a middle ground, between what the Dev team wants and what the player base wants, for it to be better. 

[DoomFruit]

2 hours ago, Cheizer said:

Unfortunately, in 2018, problems with ports began in Russia, due to which it became impossible for users in the territory to play with other players without using a VPN

While I would agree with pretty much everything else, this is the only point which might have a different cause. I've read several stories about the Russian government getting more and more intrusive with regards to internet monitoring and censorship and I would blame that for your network problems. Sure, connectivity has never been a strong point of this game (see: ping limit option doing absolutely nothing, solar map says 23 open squads and then can't find a single one when you try to play on it), but that's remained pretty consistent over the years.

That aside, the OP is pretty much on the mark. Bugs, blundering and gambling are swarming all over this game and they are not doing it any favours.

[-KyloRen-]

So sad and true... this should be printed and pinned on every wall in DE`s offices.