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The Forward Artillery Is Perfectly OK


BornWithTeeth
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Not kidding. Ran a mission on the Gian Point node in the Veil, had a person who joined onto my ship come up to the cockpit and take over the big gun. So, what the heck, why not.

 

I focused in on the nearest crewship, and here's the general drill:

1. Take out the engine nacelles using your forward turret guns.
2. Fire a missile from the ordnance, why the hell not.
3. Spend a few seconds chiselling its healthbar down with the main guns, maybe bring it down to 2/3 HP.
4. Hold still for two seconds so your gunner can focus.
5. Dead crewship.

 

Was just as fast in practice as launching a boarder to take it out from the inside, and simply requires that the pilot and gunner understand what each other are doing and enable each other to work. We did the whole mission without anyone even leaving the ship. No-one had to.

 

Best part? I wasn't even modded for it. I don't have the Avionic equipped which boosts Artillery damage.

 

So, yeah. Lads. The idea that the forward artillery is useless has, uh, not turned out to be supported. If the pilot and gunner trust each other to just do their jobs, it's as quick and easy as using Archwing boarding to take them out.

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ha, i don't even need gunner when i have engi 10, lavan carcinnox, and void cloak, that way I've been soloing veil lately

but yeah, in veil you just need to change your tactics with crew ships and softening them a little before the big hit

you also avoid shooting some of the engines hit-boxes and doing pitiful damage, wasting a shot

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You can make it work if you do a bunch of extra work before you use it, yeah. 

But it's faster to just take out crew ships normally (especially if you use the slingshot). 

Artillery should one shot crew ships, no exceptions. No stupid engine hitboxes. Not even damage, per se. It should just kill them instantly. All the extra work around (because of the poor implementation) is just a hassle that's foolish to do when a better option exists (destroying the core from the inside).

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Or you could just board it via slingshot and kill it for free and not use 2 players focusing on it, resources, and extra time to do so.

Just now, Enexemander said:

Artillery should one shot crew ships, no exceptions. No stupid engine hitboxes. Not even damage, per se. It should just kill them instantly. All the extra work around (because of the poor implementation) is just a hassle that's foolish to do when a better option exists (destroying the core from the inside).

100%. The avionics should increase dome capacity or lower charge time on the cannon.

Edited by Skaleek
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I've not seen anybody call the BFG useless. Its just not as useful as boarding and defeating the ship from the inside.

As you said, it required two players to coordinate, ammo which has to be crafted from the forge (requiring the gunner to either get off the BFG in the down time or a third player) and sitting still for the BFG to charge is time sitting still getting shot by enemies.

 

You can use the BFG, or one player can just fly over/slingshot to a crewship. One hack and a couple of shots to the reactor. Shoot the gunner if he's harrasing the railjack, shoot anybody in your way is optional.

Calling it 'Perfectly OK' is , IMO, a bit of a stretch. At the end of the day, do what you want and have fun. Glad you got some use out of the BFG in a veil mission. I play pub games in other players RJ and don't want to use their ammo or ask them to shoot at the crewship when there is inevitably an amesha already doing its thing

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5 minutes ago, Enexemander said:

You can make it work if you do a bunch of extra work before you use it, yeah. 

But it's faster to just take out crew ships normally (especially if you use the slingshot). 

Artillery should one shot crew ships, no exceptions. No stupid engine hitboxes. Not even damage, per se. It should just kill them instantly. All the extra work around (because of the poor implementation) is just a hassle that's foolish to do when a better option exists (destroying the core from the inside).

you just want easy mode, that's not how it works, its more fun doing all that preparation before the final blow

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2 minutes ago, Toppien said:

you just want easy mode, that's not how it works, its more fun doing all that preparation before the final blow

It's not easy mode, its making the main cannon worth using over slingshotting and destroying from within.

Edited by Skaleek
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1 minute ago, Toppien said:

you just want easy mode, that's not how it works, its more fun doing all that preparation before the final blow

I already have easy mode. Taking out crew ships is not challenging. I want an Artillery that serves a purpose, not a janky mess that's less efficient than literally hauling my butt across space time and doing it myself.

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11 minutes ago, Skaleek said:

Or you could just board it via slingshot and kill it for free and not use 2 players focusing on it, resources, and extra time to do so.

 

So, look. You are generally a reasonable poster, but I kinda feel like you managed to not actually read my post, and just went directly to "No, Cannon sucks!"
 

2 players focusing on it - For a few seconds, two players focus on it and it dies. As opposed to one player having to leave the Railjack altogether for at least ten seconds anyway, and more like twenty, while the pilot is still doing pilot things

resources - Which for anyone who is regularly doing Veil missions and has Engineering, are barely noticeable pocket change.

extra time - Which is the thing I explicitly pointed out as not being the case. Once you're in combat range of a crewship, you just nip around it dodging shots while proccing some damage and debuffs on it, then hold target lock on it for a couple of seconds. Boom. Dead. 

 

It's not perfect, but it's fine. It works just as well as relying on boarding, I was startled at how quickly it worked compared to going inside. Especially since it bypasses the twenty second countdown until explosion that the boarding method causes. A crewship blows within seconds of being shot with the cannon.

Edited by BornWithTeeth
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2 minutes ago, Skaleek said:

It's not easy mode, its making the main cannon worth using over slingshotting and destroying from within.

 

1 minute ago, Enexemander said:

I already have easy mode. Taking out crew ships is not challenging. I want an Artillery that serves a purpose, not a janky mess that's less efficient than literally hauling my butt across space time and doing it myself.

the whole point of this post if that the main cannon is already worth using in veil, you just want an insta-kill button, where the hell is the fun in that.

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6 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

2 players focusing on it - For a few seconds, two players focus on it and it dies. As opposed to one player having to leave the Railjack altogether for at least ten seconds anyway, while the pilot is still doing pilot things

Is it a few seconds? I thought you were priming the crewship with ordnance and procs and "wittling" its health down with your main turret?

6 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

resources - Which for anyone who is regularly doing Veil missions and has Engineering, are barely noticeable pocket change.

Very true! but still slingshotting costs nothing. Regardless of the cost, it still cost vs no cost.

6 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

extra time - Which is the thing I explicitly pointed out as not being the case. Once you're in combat range of a crewship, you just nip around it dodging shots while proccing some damage and debuffs on it, then hold target lock on it for a couple of seconds. Boom. Dead. 

This would have to be tested, but the other thing is that you have limited dome charges and must craft them, so you need to hop down to engineering and refill this. There are a few factors at play and testing would be required but i still believe slingshot boarding is far more efficient than stopping your RJ and going into the main arty and taking out a crewship.

6 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Especially since it bypasses the twenty second countdown until explosion that the boarding method causes. A crewship blows within seconds of being shot with the cannon.

This is a fair point, but keep in mind if your archgun is ridiculous (mine is, most peoples arent) i can drop the crewship outside once i exit the RJ and it also drops loot instantly. I'll admit this is a very niche counter argument.

6 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

So, look. You are generally a reasonable poster, but I kinda feel like you managed to not actually read my post

Thank you, i consider myself a reasonable poster as well, and I did read your whole post, and I am balancing it against my personal experience in game.

Edited by Skaleek
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1 minute ago, Toppien said:

the whole point of this post if that the main cannon is already worth using in veil, you just want an insta-kill button, where the hell is the fun in that.

Where the hell is the fun in shooting 5/5 of your dome charges to kill one crewship? With the number of crewships you're killing each mission, you now have 5, previously 4 charges to take out those ships. If they upped the max capacity of dome charges a bit i wouldnt care as much.

Edited by Skaleek
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6 minutes ago, kierogonal said:

I've not seen anybody call the BFG useless. Its just not as useful as boarding and defeating the ship from the inside.

As you said, it required two players to coordinate, ammo which has to be crafted from the forge (requiring the gunner to either get off the BFG in the down time or a third player) and sitting still for the BFG to charge is time sitting still getting shot by enemies.

 

You can use the BFG, or one player can just fly over/slingshot to a crewship. One hack and a couple of shots to the reactor. Shoot the gunner if he's harrasing the railjack, shoot anybody in your way is optional.

Calling it 'Perfectly OK' is , IMO, a bit of a stretch. At the end of the day, do what you want and have fun. Glad you got some use out of the BFG in a veil mission. I play pub games in other players RJ and don't want to use their ammo or ask them to shoot at the crewship when there is inevitably an amesha already doing its thing

It doesn't require two players to coordinate.

Slingshot also takes longer because the process of loading into the slingshot plus the amount of time it takes for you to reach the crewship is about as long, if not longer than shooting the artillery. You also have to get to the reactor, maybe hack a console (depending on difficulty) and then omni out.

Artillery is without a doubt faster than slingshot. Only real downside is if for some reason, RNG isn't on your side and you somehow don't have enough materials to craft a dome charge after destroying 4 - 5 crewships.

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It's an Artillery Cannon buddy. It's SUPPOSED to be an instant kill machine. That's the point.

Let's have an analogy- You have two weapons. One is a knife. One is nug.

Now the knife is just a knife. You can walk over to a guy and kill him with it.

The nug is a bit different. For the nug, you have to decipher a code on it, whisper a sweet nothing in its ear, and then walk backwards and count to 20. Afterwards, you can kill a guy with it (but you might accidentally hit a button on his shirt which means nothing happens.

Sure, you can have fun doing the nug mini-game, but if you want to kill the guy, you use the knife.

You're arguing for the nug.

Now of course, nug is just gun spelled backwards. A gun should of course just kill the guy over there a lot more simply and easily than the knife, because it's a GUN. Similarly, a CANNON should destroy things a lot more simply than infiltrate, break a code, and destroy, but it isn't. Because the thing they're calling Artillery is really yrellitra (a silly mini-game that's just more inefficient than the practical option).

You like mini-games? Awesome. But that doesn't mean that's what an ARTILLERY CANNON should be.

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2 minutes ago, Skaleek said:

Where the hell is the fun in shooting 5/5 of your dome charges to kill one crewship? With the number of crewships you're killing each mission, you now have 5, previously 4 charges to take out those ships. If they upped the max capacity of dome charges a bit i wouldnt care as much.

do you even read bro?

the OP is  basically telling you that if you take out the engines of the crew-ship and shooting the belly you can still one shot it with the main cannon, you don't need to use 5 shots per crew-ship, and because you probably have attention span problems im telling you again that you can just kill the engines fist, maybe an extra ordinance to be sure and then one shot the damn crew-ship its not rocket science

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Again, just to make the point:

You are onboard a Railjack that has just entered combat range of an enemy crewship. Are you saying that you can run to the Slingshot and press X to load yourself in, and fifteen to twenty seconds later, counting from the moment of the button being pressed, the enemy crewship blows up? You load into the slingshot, you get launched and fly in space, you breach the crewship hull, you hack the reactor without the crew slowing you down, you blow the reactor, you get out of the crewship, and, optionally, you blow up the crewship from the outside with archgun.

 

In twenty seconds. 
 

 

Meanwhile, I am very definitely telling you that taking about twelve seconds to focus fire on the crewship, and then holding her in your sights for another two seconds so your gunner can hit it, can oneshot a crewship. Not five shots. One.

 

Seriously, try it. Actually try it.

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2 minutes ago, Goodwill said:

It doesn't require two players to coordinate.

Slingshot also takes longer because the process of loading into the slingshot plus the amount of time it takes for you to reach the crewship is about as long, if not longer than shooting the artillery. You also have to get to the reactor, maybe hack a console (depending on difficulty) and then omni out.

Artillery is without a doubt faster than slingshot. Only real downside is if for some reason, RNG isn't on your side and you somehow don't have enough materials to craft a dome charge after destroying 4 - 5 crewships.

Two players- one pilot knocking out the engines, building up status procs and reducing around 1/3 hp as stated in OP, second player waiting in gunner position until things are in all in place for them, then having the pilot stop (whilst aiming in a correct enough direction) for long enough for the gunner to shoot the BFG is (IMO) coordinating.

 

Again, this is using two players. If one player is slingshotting/AW to get the crewships, the pilot is free to do whatever they want to. If this method works out at half the speed, then great, its as efficient. Otherwise its taking two players time.

 

As i also said in my first post do what you want. Also as i said, i play RJ in pubs, where the vast majority of pilots are off shooting at fighters at the edge of the map or voidholing fighters.

 

At the end of the day, there is one thing the WF community hyperfocuses on, efficiency. The community obviously think that the BFG, whilst cool, isn't as efficient at taking out crewships as slingshotting/AW. Which brings me back to my main point. BFG does the job, can be made better with teamwork and prep, but i still think calling it 'perfectly ok' is a bit of a stretch. At the end of the day it was designed to do something we cannot yet do, which is destroy capital ships.

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2 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Again, just to make the point:

You are onboard a Railjack that has just entered combat range of an enemy crewship. Are you saying that you can run to the Slingshot and press X to load yourself in, and fifteen to twenty seconds later, counting from the moment of the button being pressed, the enemy crewship blows up? You load into the slingshot, you get launched and fly in space, you breach the crewship hull, you hack the reactor without the crew slowing you down, you blow the reactor, you get out of the crewship, and, optionally, you blow up the crewship from the outside with archgun.

 

In twenty seconds. 
 

 

Meanwhile, I am very definitely telling you that taking about twelve seconds to focus fire on the crewship, and then holding her in your sights for another two seconds so your gunner can hit it, can oneshot a crewship. Not five shots. One.

 

Seriously, try it. Actually try it.

The point of the pilot, IMO, is to keep the railjack in a useful place, near enough to fighters fo themselves and the wing turret gunners to kill fighters, but not to be in the danger zone of crewships and enemy bases. They can pump out a lot of damage which is probably better to just be avoided outright, than trying to tango up close with one.

That also deals with the 20 seconds explosion delay. IMO the RJ should not be in range of enemy crewships, making that 20 second delay, rather irrelevant

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30 minutes ago, Toppien said:

you just want easy mode, that's not how it works, its more fun doing all that preparation before the final blow

Is it more fun though?

The game would be DOA if we applied the same logic to the ground game....

 

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Solo, artillery is more efficient.

In a group, having someone boarding crewships means the Jack doesn't have to spend any time on them at all. Zero. Zero time is lower than whatever time it takes to destroy engines, strip armour, line up the gun, and wait for the charge time.

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4 minutes ago, kierogonal said:

The point of the pilot, IMO, is to keep the railjack in a useful place, near enough to fighters fo themselves and the wing turret gunners to kill fighters, but not to be in the danger zone of crewships and enemy bases. They can pump out a lot of damage which is probably better to just be avoided outright, than trying to tango up close with one.

That also deals with the 20 seconds explosion delay. IMO the RJ should not be in range of enemy crewships, making that 20 second delay, rather irrelevant

Spent the mission blowing up crewships with the artillery, and the Railjack had no problems staying active and alive. Kill a few fighters, focus on a crewship, it blows up, go back to killing fighters, another crewship drops in, clear some fighters, blow up that new crewship...

 

I’m going to repeat this one, because it bears repeating: Spent the entire mission without anyone going Archwing. Entire mission, all crew stayed on the ship, all combat done with Railjack weapons. End result was one of the smoothest Veil runs I’ve done so far.

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