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Why Some Rivens Are Worth 5000p+

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28 minutes ago, Wolfdoggie said:

I generally consider those "not for sale" prices, as in the person uses it and wouldn't normally sell it unless the offer is insane.

This exists to an extent among riven dealers.  I have a couple rivens listed for a bit more than I think they're worth just because I use them on a daily basis.

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vor 17 Minuten schrieb Voltage:

You can always get more Platinum, but you can't just get another Riven of the same quality that easily.

Well said. And DE build on that by adding rng based wreckage. Who wants to run a Vidar MK3 reactor with 95 avionic capacity and 30 flux when a 97 avionic capacity and 80 flux exist. 

Reminds me of sports cars where you will always find a better one the next year.

Edited by k05h

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In my experience i notice plat is in greater abundance on pc so people are willing to use it more freely.  Ps4 however, is a different story.  No sane person is going to burn multiple hundreds of plat on sets much less 1 mod.

It comes down to the plat coupon working differently.  I often reserve my plat only for skins, forma, potatoes, color pallettes etc.

It's  also is a factor that console chatting with the lousy controller keyboard is clunky and slow.

When i went to get a ignis wrath riven there was 4 sellers.  The one willing to haggle abd compramise made 120 plat and i rolled the riven till it was good.  The others demandibg multiple hundreds of plat sat in trade with no profits for hrs.   Possibly longer.

Fee market boys.

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Hint: no riven sells for 5,000p+

The people advertising their rivens at such a high price in trade chat don't actually want to sell them - they want other players to see their lucky rolls.

It's e-peen.

But sure, if someone offered to pay that much they'd sell in a heartbeat.

Edited by Aluzhun
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1 minute ago, Aluzhun said:

Hint: no riven sells for 5,000p+

This isn't true though. I've personally spent up to 20,000 on a single Riven and I've seen some rare trades of 25, 30, and even 65k for a perfect Rubico when Rubico Prime came out. The people who spend this much are the same group of people who have or are hunting for a Primed Chamber. It's special to have these Rivens for some.

Edited by Voltage
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Limited source of supply makes it easy to keep prices as high as possible, and a complete lack of platinum sink for anyone that has everything already means there's nothing but rivens to spend the platinum on in the first place, which further keeps the higher price. The high amount of individual weapons and the fact the system functions like that also makes it worse, because you now are looking for a mod for a specific weapon with specific stats. This is why even unrolled trash rivens can sell for up to 1k if it's for a weapon people want rivens for, where as other weapons you're lucky to even get 100p for it.

In my opinion, one of the areas that rivens can be improved on, is removing the individual weapon style mods. Each variant of the same weapon now can have their own dispositions as it is, may as well go a step further and just make each weapon of the same type just share a riven. So many "different" weapons of the same type are essentially the same exact weapons, just with a different base skin and stats, especially when it comes to melee weapons.

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7 minutes ago, Aluzhun said:

Hint: no riven sells for 5,000p+

The people advertising their rivens at such a high price in trade chat don't actually want to sell them - they want other players to see their lucky rolls.

It's e-peen.

But sure, if someone offered to pay that much they'd sell in a heartbeat.

I've sold multiple rivens for over 5k.

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Hi, I happened to post a lengthy post a long time ago about the Riven Mafia. I hope this was about me, but I won't be so conceited as to assume so.

 

First of all, I want to get something out of the way. You posted Riven Mafia in quotes as if it were nonexistent. Then you said this:

Quote

3.  There are people with hundreds of thousands of platinum (They are almost exclusively riven dealers).  Most of the rivens you see that are worth 10k+ aren't sold to the normal public.  They're sold to or between a small group of people.  It's the same thing as selling an island mansion or something.  They're not going to be sold to the normal public.  They're sold by millionaires, to millionaires.

Oh... so a small group of people controlling a market to dictate the terms of trade amongst themselves? You mean.... like a mafia?

Now lets get to the nitty gritty, since you want to argue the economics of the whole thing. As you stated, this is economics 101. Rivens have an inherent instability, unlike a millionaire mansion island. They are nerfed and buffed over time, some so badly that they can feasibly lose the entire investment value that the player put in them to begin with. This happens at least 4 times a year, no less.

But as you said, if there's demand for a small supply, then the price goes up. This makes sense when you see prices for things like recently released prime parts or whatever.

My issue is the fact that the concept of the riven market is inherently immoral because, like you said, there's a small group of people trading these exorbitantly priced rivens. They label them with "God Roll" status, even though in practice they are marginally better. A riven makes a difference for sure, but a good roll and "God" tier roll hardly make a difference except in very sterile conditions (like the simulacrum). I don't have a riven for the Rubico, but I can sure as hell 1-shot all of the synovias and Eidolons themselves without an issue.

Warframe's trading system is flawed in that there is only a text chat and sites to go off of for prices. There's no in-game auction house that allows visibility in one place. Sure there are websites/reddit/forums, what have you, but those are just as easy to manipulate with the same logic.

If you want the price to increase you can feasibly just get a group together with people of a common interest and spam trade chat advertising God tier rolls at exorbitant prices, then if there is some kind of deviant who wants to buy lower, you and your friends can message them telling them it's ridiculous and they need to buy at x price. Just food for thought.

 

TL;DR: Riven mafia exists, as proven by OP, and the Warframe market is easily manipulated because all you're doing at the end of the day is looking at a scrolling chat.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, LoneWolveYT said:

I've sold multiple rivens for over 5k.

Honestly, they are fools.  Nothing is worth multiple 100s of plat at all.  You found suckers mate.

1 plat on console is worth 6.7 cents. Times 5k plat means they payed 335 dollars for a virtual item. That's absurd.

Edited by (PS4)Kakurine2
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36 minutes ago, (XB1)TheRosenBones said:

not sure what PS4 would be, but I have heard that it’s even lower than Xbox, and I have no idea what the switch market even looks like. 

Looking at past prices, I'd say the Switch market is more like 100–1,000p. I personally haven't seen riven prices go any higher than 1,500p.

(Are the PC prices for rivens really that high?)

Edited by (NSW)MasterJ93
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2 minutes ago, Lobosandia said:

Hi, I happened to post a lengthy post a long time ago about the Riven Mafia. I hope this was about me, but I won't be so conceited as to assume so.

Oh... so a small group of people controlling a market to dictate the terms of trade amongst themselves? You mean.... like a mafia?

Now lets get to the nitty gritty, since you want to argue the economics of the whole thing. As you stated, this is economics 101. Rivens have an inherent instability, unlike a millionaire mansion island. They are nerfed and buffed over time, some so badly that they can feasibly lose the entire investment value that the player put in them to begin with. This happens at least 4 times a year, no less.

My issue is the fact that the concept of the riven market is inherently immoral because, like you said, there's a small group of people trading these exorbitantly priced rivens. They label them with "God Roll" status, even though in practice they are marginally better. A riven makes a difference for sure, but a good roll and "God" tier roll hardly make a difference except in very sterile conditions (like the simulacrum). I don't have a riven for the Rubico, but I can sure as hell 1-shot all of the synovias and Eidolons themselves without an issue.

If you want the price to increase you can feasibly just get a group together with people of a common interest and spam trade chat advertising God tier rolls at exorbitant prices, then if there is some kind of deviant who wants to buy lower, you and your friends can message them telling them it's ridiculous and they need to buy at x price. Just food for thought.

TL;DR: Riven mafia exists, as proven by OP, and the Warframe market is easily manipulated because all you're doing at the end of the day is looking at a scrolling chat.

 

 

Thank you for providing a well constructed argument. 😄

This post was not about you.

The quote you mentioned says "mostly" to other dealers.  There are randoms who have the platinum to pay for it, but dealers don't purposefully sell to other dealers.  It's just a weird meme that happens due to riven dealers being the people with the most currency.

Just because something can gain or lose value has little impact on high end riven sales.  All that really affects high end riven prices is current value or their collectability.  (rivens that have stats that are no longer possible like a -impact harpak for example)

The difference between the 5k rivens and the 20k rivens usually comes down to them having negatives that buff which in a lot of cases like a -impact boar or -slash kohm, makes them remarkably better.  And as you start adding like more stipulations like "these 3 stats AND -impact" the supply becomes even lower which is why the prices take a sharp jump.  Riven prices are on a graph that looks similar to an x^1.5 graph.

Tl:dr riven mafia yee yee


 

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18 minutes ago, Lobosandia said:

My issue is the fact that the concept of the riven market is inherently immoral because, like you said, there's a small group of people trading these exorbitantly priced rivens. They label them with "God Roll" status, even though in practice they are marginally better. A riven makes a difference for sure, but a good roll and "God" tier roll hardly make a difference except in very sterile conditions (like the simulacrum). I don't have a riven for the Rubico, but I can sure as hell 1-shot all of the synovias and Eidolons themselves without an issue.

Performance is not the whole story when the price gets that high. An example is when you have two of the exact same Riven Mods, let's use Vectis as a example, but may different weapons will work.

Vectis Riven A is CC DMG MS -Mag.

Vectis Riven B is CC DMG MS -Mag.

Riven A has high grades on the positive stats and and a really bad grade on the negative (good).

Riven B has mediocre grades on the positive stats and a decent grade on the negative (which is fine considering the breakpoint for one magazine on Vectis Prime). 

Riven A is unrolled with a Madurai polarity.

Riven B is rolled 3 times with a Vazarin polarity.

The performance of both Riven Mods is very very close. However Riven A will be offered for 150k Platinum while Riven B won't come near that.

Purchasing a Riven is about what it can do, but when you get into these prices, you are also buying a trophy piece.

Edited by Voltage
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10 minutes ago, (PS4)Kakurine2 said:

Honestly, they are fools.  Nothing is worth multiple 100s of plat at all.  You found suckers mate.

1 plat on console is worth 6.7 cents. Times 5k plat means they payed 335 dollars for a virtual item. That's absurd.

People also spend $200 on air pods when you can get string ones for $5.  People with money pay for luxuries.

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Because of the difficulty of trading rivens (supply is low cause there's no ingame auction, not cause people don't have these rivens) and price manipulation by certain individuals (made more possible because of artificially limited supply), your points are all pretty much bogus. 

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2 hours ago, LoneWolveYT said:

Some Riven Mods are worth more than 5000p,

Image result for lmao gif"

that really is subjective. I wouldn't pay that much plat even if it made my gun a guaranteed OHK on everything, that's just ludicrous :crylaugh: . you do you, but I'm never spending that much on anything, let alone a mod that will probably get nerfed in an upcoming patch anyway due to disposition balancing.

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2 hours ago, LoneWolveYT said:

Some Riven Mods are worth more than 5000p, but there are obviously people that will price average to god rolls far beyond their true value.

You're gullible. 

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16 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Performance is not the largest influencer when the price gets that high. An example is when you have two of the exact same Riven Mods, let's use Vectis as a good start, but any works.

Vectis Riven A is CC DMG MS -Mag.

Vectis Riven B is CC DMG MS -Mag.

Riven A has A grades on the Multishot, S on the Critical Chance, as well as A- on the Damage with an F on the negative magazine size.

Riven B has B grades on Multishot, C on Critical Chance, C+ on Damage, and C on the negative magazine size.

Riven A is unrolled with a Madurai polarity.

Riven B is rolled 3 times with a Vazarin polarity.

The performance of both Riven Mods is very very close. However Riven A will be offered for 150k Platinum while Riven B won't come near that.

Purchasing a Riven is about what it can do, but when you get into these prices, you are also buying a trophy piece.

And on Xbox that riven would be priced at a tenth of that.

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2 hours ago, LoneWolveYT said:

I saw a relatively popular thread that was calling out the "riven mafia" and the overpriced riven market, and I wanted to give my opinion on the topic.  Before I get into everything I have to say, I want to make it clear that this is just my opinion and if you have a different one, I respect that.

Some Riven Mods are worth more than 5000p, but there are obviously people that will price average to god rolls far beyond their true value.  I am not talking about those rivens/people.  They are crazy lmao.

1. Basic Economic Principle: All items fall on a supply and demand curve.  Ammo case for example is very high supply and very low demand.  Ammo Case is worth less than 1p.  A 102.1 Status Chance, Multishot, Damage -Harmless Detron Riven is so incredibly rare that they have been sold for over 80k.  The demand is there and the supply is probably single to low double digit.

2. The rolls that are worth 5k+ are incredibly rare rolls.  There are people who ran the numbers and the chance of getting a "god" roll are crazy low.  And the chance of getting "the" roll with high grades is probably around or well over 1 in a million.  I could be wrong.  I haven't looked at any math on it in a long time.  But the point is that they're incredibly rare.

3.  There are people with hundreds of thousands of platinum (They are almost exclusively riven dealers).  Most of the rivens you see that are worth 10k+ aren't sold to the normal public.  They're sold to or between a small group of people.  It's the same thing as selling an island mansion or something.  They're not going to be sold to the normal public.  They're sold by millionaires, to millionaires.

tl;dr perfect rolls are rare and in high demand, therefore expensive.

"Why do you care how I spend my platinum?"
                                                           -dad

Edit: Something that I wanted to add.  I see riven prices as existing on a graph kinda like x^1.5.  The rarest rivens like an S grade, CC Multi Dmg -mag cap Vectis selling in the 100k+ range while an average CC Multi Damage -zoom Vectis sitting in the 4k range is a good example of this concept.

If there are people dumb enough to pay those obscene prices, thats thier choice.

Nothing in warframe has any real value. I block all riven dealers and peddlers. I suggest you all do the same (there is a chat filter). It will keep your blood pressure down. The riven mafia has no power if you ignore them. So what if they have high end rivens. They'll never sell at reasonable prices, so ignore them and let them fade away. Warframe maket sellers have no real power, the power rests in the hands of the purchaser. Be smart not a sucker/whale.

One more thing, stop chasing the perfect roll. 5 more damage or crit chance doesn't mean anything. Control your gambling urges, because that's what's at play here.

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17 minutes ago, LoneWolveYT said:

*Snip reply*
 

I see what you're saying, but you and I have different ideas of what too much is. You say that 5k-25k is reasonable based on the rarity of the riven. I think that the stats are completely arbitrary in these cases. In addition, these minute details that you're putting into the justification for the pricing show just how ridiculous the whole thing is.

The criticism comes from the fact that people posting these rivens for 1k+ are creating artificial inflation in the market. A good Vectis riven looks like a "god tier" vectis riven to a layman, so they sell at the same price as the God tier folk to get in on the action despite their lack of knowledge. Hiding behind some esoteric rules to sell a riven as "God tier" still shows the same problem that I described above.

 

21 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Purchasing a Riven is about what it can do, but when you get into these prices, you are also buying a trophy piece.

Great, but 150k is EXTREMELY out there. 1k+ for a riven is really really pushing it. 5k for a riven is just that has a "God tier" roll is really, really, REALLY pushing it. At best, it's unintentional market manipulation based on an economy that formed outside of the player base. At worst, it's active market manipulation.

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8 minutes ago, Lobosandia said:

Great, but 150k is EXTREMELY out there. 1k+ for a riven is really really pushing it. 5k for a riven is just that has a "God tier" roll is really, really, REALLY pushing it. At best, it's unintentional market manipulation based on an economy that formed outside of the player base. At worst, it's active market manipulation.

My "example" is actually a real Riven with a real offer. I used it to illustrate how subjective pricing is. These Rivens are inventory trophy pieces much like expensive CS:GO cosmetics or the like.

Edited by Voltage

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6 minutes ago, LoneWolveYT said:

(OP here) Console and PC prices appear to be quite a bit different as some people have pointed out.

Pc vs console are different animals. Due to the coupon working completely differently.  The only time console can buy large bundles of plat from de at a reasonable price is unvaultings and prime access.

The plat packs are awful and over priced. The coupon works completely different for console.  And really plat for console players.  Especially newer players is saved for skins, slots, color pallettes, etc.

The only time trade has ever demanded multiple hundreds of plat for anything is meta archgun rivens.  People demanding multiple hundreds of plat don't get sales on console.

And even something like a cyngus riven i would rather farm myself then waste plat.

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58 minutes ago, Lobosandia said:

The criticism comes from the fact that people posting these rivens for 1k+ are creating artificial inflation in the market. A good Vectis riven looks like a "god tier" vectis riven to a layman, so they sell at the same price as the God tier folk to get in on the action despite their lack of knowledge. Hiding behind some esoteric rules to sell a riven as "God tier" still shows the same problem that I described above.

This happens a lot yeah.  

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1 hour ago, Voltage said:

My "example" is actually a real Riven with a real offer. I used it to illustrate how subjective pricing is. These Rivens are inventory trophy pieces much like expensive CS:GO cosmetics or the like.

I was asking for a Chakhurr riven below 500p. It didn't matter what the riven had, i just wanted the riven. Multiple people in trade chat would troll me for asking that price. If someone said "PSO" I would provide my offer and the person accused me of being a scammer who just wanted to turn the riven around.

These are the issues that I'm talking about. I agree that pricing is subjective, but the market is very anti-buyer. Every time I venture to buy or sell a riven for a price I deem reasonable, I always (literally aleays) get a message that seeks to intimidate me out of my attempts to buy/sell. 

It's toxic, and hiding behind the statistical/novel qualities of certain rare rivens that most people probably wouldn't know about is just side stepping the issue of how posting those overpriced rivens on trade chat drive the market for the weapon in question. 

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