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Leavith

Delete - this isn't feedback, i prefer it deleted then my intentions be walked on.(enrichment if our gameplay- why you may find pvp hard?)

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Ok, let me give a perspective from someone who likes fast-paced shooters (like unreal tournament, tribes ascend) but played like one or two matches in Conclave.

Learning different stats and stuff is not the problem, the problem is that it is completely disconnected from the rest of the game.

If I could get just some progression (not even on the same level as regular play) in terms of resources, potatoes, formas, XP, then I would spend more time with it. As it stands, even though I have a lot of stuff in the game, I would rather play a mission where, apart from the fun itself, I would also get some bits of progressions items, which if not now, may be useful later (since Warframe gets new content on a regular basis).

So yeah, ideally I would like them to set up a cred shop (similar to Nightwave), so you would earn tokens after matches (more for winning), which you can redeem for formas, potatoes, certain resources like orokin cells or XP tokens (like say 100K affinity for a weapon or Warfame of your choice, something like that).

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I've no interest in pvp in any game, not just wf.  That's just me.

However, I accept there are people who do enjoy it and good for them.  Each to their own.  Play the parts of the game you like.

It's a shame though that someone who clearly does like pvp and was hoping to have a discussion on some of the differences to pve basically gets dog piled by other players just for bringing the subject up.

He's been polite and respectful throughout and is obviously not writing in his native language.  And yet so many just want to be snarky, rude or just downright toxic in a vain attempt to appear edgy or cool.  I don't like pvp but I'm not going to sh!!t on the guy because he does.

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5 hours ago, zuraja said:

PvP & Simulacrum

Pvp inside Simulacrum cannot reach the level of fairness that pvp in conclave. Yes, it is fun since you are able to do so much with mods from pve but the issue occurs that all this mod make such an unbalance Pvp. Try you get into a match instantly die, why because a Loki is running radial disarm max range, max efficiency, and flow. Radial disarm does magentic damage canceling out your power before you arrive and radial disarm range is huge.(specially with helmet)-you can't block this unless you got a skill like iron skin ready that will stops you from being procs. How ever now we are limiting everyones Warframe choices cause of broken tactics.(dark sector PvP aka planet pvp)

4 hours ago, Elenortirie said:

oh wait, anyone is still playing conclave?

Pls leave toxicity about us who do somewhere else. My thread and I am tired of saying it is for player who do enjoy it and is tagged for them as well.

Our discussion is about the damage and resistance of Warframe in pvp. We discuss because if you don't understand this you will face difficulty making your pvp experience hard.

3 hours ago, Mr.Fluffins said:

Your post

To address your post, I understand. PvP would benefit from progression, but my thread discussion isn't about that here. However indirectly it ties to our topic. The situation is that it got unconnected because players wanted it to be is own thing. As of now only certain rewards nare applicable from Pvp to pve & vice versa. People would throw fits if Warframe PvP gave or made things easier then pve, but DE business model isn't going to support making things easier but giving different route or making stuff only for that.. but people get unhappy. 

I would enjoy it if we had more translatable rewards and mods from Pvp to pve. Did you know volt speed augment increases duration for running into enemies. Atlas makes himself into a rumbler. A melee mod that makes enemies you kill explode. A lot of cool things and if we can get some rewards it would be nice.

1 hour ago, Jarriaga said:

Meh. I can't wait for conclave to be removed from the game. It's such a waste of development effort and WF installation file size.

Please don't be toxic, throw that in Warframe feedback. This is a thread to discuss PvP damage and resistance. The difficulty that are made when there isn't understanding of it.

1 hour ago, (XB1)Hyperion Rexx said:

I've no interest in pvp in any game, not just wf.  That's just me.

However, I accept there are people who do enjoy it and good for them.  Each to their own.  Play the parts of the game you like.

It's a shame though that someone who clearly does like pvp and was hoping to have a discussion on some of the differences to pve basically gets dog piled by other players just for bringing the subject up.

He's been polite and respectful throughout and is obviously not writing in his native language.  And yet so many just want to be snarky, rude or just downright toxic in a vain attempt to appear edgy or cool.  I don't like pvp but I'm not going to sh!!t on the guy because he does.

Thank you tenno friend, I think I am just gonna start reporting post for not being on topic or being toxic.

This isn't the place to leave does opinion if you like or not like it. That is feedback category for conclave.

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Oh I do love how posts magically disappear without any notification to their authors.... at the very least my first reply (yes we do notice) and a few following it have vanished and there was NOTHING wrong with what we posted.... clearly we're not allowed to have negative responses when it's conclave related, no idea why though....

Edited by LSG501
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17 hours ago, Leavith said:

I want to start by first openly saying this is a discussion of pvp-conclave.

Perhaps, and this is without a hint of disrespect to you personally, the ideas are better left for an entirely different game where pvp isn't tacked on but planned for from the outset.

Up to this point, Conclave has been something most folks could simply ignore if they didn't want to bother with it...Sure they lost out on cosmetic exclusives that all players should have had reasonable access to some variation of... But it was what it was.

Now though, given the fact that we have Conclave players posting demands to the Devs for what PvE players should (or shouldn't) be entitled to... I think it's a mode that needs to be scrapped entirely.

All of it... Teshin, Lunaro, and the entire conclave ladder system needs to go.

If Trials aren't worthy of getting a minute of development man-hours, iterations, or exclusives then Conclave shouldn't be getting it either.

Those assets need to go where they will have the most impact and that is PvE.

Edited by Padre_Akais
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2 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

Perhaps, and this is without a hint of disrespect to you personally, the ideas are better left for an entirely different game where pvp isn't tacked on but planned for from the outset.

 

Thanks for posting and all, first i just want to say my thread start off with that to let people know what we are about to talk about.

But my main topic of the conclave that is being discussed is how damage works for our weapons and damage resistance. How not understanding can be hard if you are trying to play pvp conclave.

My topic doesn't promote players to give there take on changes to pvp

Ask DE to change something about pvp

Tell the player that pvp needs more support

Or DE that pvp needs support.

I am neither demanding or encouraging people to demand in my post

I am neither attacking any group in my OP except maybe the ones who don't understand how damage works but that are because they are my focus.

They are my focus cause my discussion is about damage and how if you as a player do not understand this coming into pvp you will find it hard to play because what expectation you had don't fully plan out in the big scope of picture.

Your opinion let it go to feedback area on the forum titled conclave where you can tell DE what is wrong.

3 hours ago, LSG501 said:

Oh I do love how posts magically disappear without any notification to their authors.... at the very least my first reply (yes we do notice) and a few following it have vanished and there was NOTHING wrong with what we posted.... clearly, we're not allowed to have negative responses when it's conclave related, no idea why though...,

I reported posts for two things.

One they were toxic, and please negative opinion have a time and place. This thread isn't  discussing the topic of what your negative opinion where about or the place for it.

Two they had nothing to do with the topic, clearly, the conversations were regarding not the main topic at hand and it kept discouraging conversations as well deviating it from the topic opening thread.

If any opinion are had about pvp go drop them off at the forum category called feedback. Not someone post that isn't discussing pvp existence but how damage works in pvp and damage resistance, and how not understanding causes difficulty for pvp players because the strategies they have don't pan out as damage gets reduced.

------

I let DE forum supervisor handle the Judgement on the part of the post were toxic or off-topic with the current opening thread... If issues aren't handled to your satisfaction please discuss that with whoever is handling this.expectations...

When half my post here are me explaining this isn't us discussing any of what you are talking about and having to explain it to about every visitor... Or they are me saying how what is being receive are just unconstructive post that promote negative atmosphere not even on the focus of the thread. 

Edited by Leavith
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2 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

Perhaps, and this is without a hint of disrespect to you personally, the ideas are better left for an entirely different game where pvp isn't tacked on but planned for from the outset.

Up to this point, Conclave has been something most folks could simply ignore if they didn't want to bother with it...Sure they lost out on cosmetic exclusives that all players should have had reasonable access to some variation of... But it was what it was.

Now though, given the fact that we have Conclave players posting demands to the Devs for what PvE players should (or shouldn't) be entitled to... I think it's a mode that needs to be scrapped entirely.

All of it... Teshin, Lunaro, and the entire conclave ladder system needs to go.

If Trials aren't worthy of getting a minute of development man-hours, iterations, or exclusives then Conclave shouldn't be getting it either.

Those assets need to go where they will have the most impact and that is PvE.

Ah yes, raids. The rallying cry of those who have an axe to grind.

At this point it's very likely they have more dev investment than anything that's currently in the Conclave Syndicate. The devs have announced that raids will return, after all. I'm patiently waiting for that, too. The difference between you and me is probably that I can wait without calling for the removal of unrelated/disliked things from the game.

Rewards: somehow only the Conclave Syndicate is not allowed to have exclusive rewards now, I guess? And if you remember back in the day when they introduced Conclave 2.0 and its syndicate, the discussions revolved around that Syndicate not having rewards which is relevant for progression in the game. DE obliged back in the day, so now I guess we can move the goalposts, right? 🤨

 

 

Anyway, on-topic again:

One thing I forgot to stress is that despite how it looks in the EHP graph (only lines instead of filled), take special note of the BIPS bar.

BIPS stands for "Balanced IPS" and means 1/3rd of each Impact, Puncture and Slash.

It's important because most weapons have IPS, just with varying weights. On the other hand, the two completely neutral elements (Heat, Electricity), are relatively rare. The BIPS bar is not filled because it's not its own basic damage type, but a combination of the physical ones.

 

Graph again:

Spoiler

damage-types.png

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3 minutes ago, Leavith said:

But my main topic of the conclave that is being discussed is how damage works for our weapons and damage resistance. How not understanding can be hard if you are trying to play pvp conclave.

My topic doesn't promote players to give there take on changes to pvp

Ask DE to change something about pvp

Tell the player that pvp needs more support

Or DE that pvp needs support.

I am neither demanding or encouraging people to demand in my post

This makes my stance entirely relevant given that I don't think PvP should exist here any longer. Period.

That said...Inviting, instructing, or encouraging players to take part in Conclave is your right.

My opinion in regard to Conclave just so happens to be mine.

 

7 minutes ago, Leavith said:

They are my focus cause my discussion is about damage and how if you as a player do not understand this coming into pvp you will find it hard to play because what expectation you had don't fully plan out in the big scope of picture.

Your opinion let it go to feedback area on the forum titled conclave where you can tell DE what is wrong.

Yes, I read your post and assert that the premise of your post regards an irrelevant mode that should no longer exist in this game.

Attempting to teach players about damage does nothing but mislead them into thinking that gameplay in the Conclaves is potentially fair...It isn't.

Builds and synergies will routinely outperform skill or tactics due to balance issues.

Peer hosted matches allow for mismatches in both skill and latency.

Put simply...There is no guarantee of a fair match in Conclave for players.

If a game mode is inherently unfair but rewards winning...Why offer it at all?

In order to fix these things DE would have to devote development time and assets—Conclave is less deserving of this than PvE modes.

 

At this point, I would rather see DE plug more effort into making Rathuum or the Index more rewarding than I would see Conclave receive another second of development time.

 

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15 minutes ago, Kontrollo said:

 

Anyway, on-topic again:

One thing I forgot to stress is that despite how it looks in the EHP graph (only lines instead of filled), take special note of the BIPS bar.

BIPS stands for "Balanced IPS" and means 1/3rd of each Impact, Puncture and Slash.

It's important because most weapons have IPS, just with varying weights. On the other hand, the two completely neutral elements (Heat, Electricity), are relatively rare. The BIPS bar is not filled because it's not its own basic damage type, but a combination of the physical ones.

 

Graph again:

  Reveal hidden contents

damage-types.png

Of the top of your head and since you know how they work with higher depth, what would be the best element type for each weapon type. 

Now i am gonna set you some rule your primary will be semi-auto or burst

While your secondary will be fully automatic

And melee can vary from dagger to axes(no restriction).

With that being case using the 4 main elements what would be a good set up of what elements should go with what type of weapon

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11 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

This makes my stance entirely relevant given that I don't think PvP should exist here any longer. Period.

That said...Inviting, instructing, or encouraging players to take part in Conclave is your right.

My opinion in regard to Conclave just so happens to be mine.

 

Yes, I read your post and assert that the premise of your post regards an irrelevant mode that should no longer exist in this game.

Attempting to teach players about damage does nothing but mislead them into thinking that gameplay in the Conclaves is potentially fair...It isn't.

Builds and synergies will routinely outperform skill or tactics due to balance issues.

Peer hosted matches allow for mismatches in both skill and latency.

Put simply...There is no guarantee of a fair match in Conclave for players.

If a game mode is inherently unfair but rewards winning...Why offer it at all?

In order to fix these things DE would have to devote development time and assets—Conclave is less deserving of this than PvE modes.

 

At this point, I would rather see DE plug more effort into making Rathuum or the Index more rewarding than I would see Conclave receive another second of development time.

 

You are entitled to your opinion, i wasn't trying to promote as you said, i since the beginning tagged my post for the conclave.

This is to say this is for people who are interested in the conclave. Meaning for does that care about it. My thread is about the irrelevant mode you call, but isn't about is existence or not. It is about as is titled enrichment of our gameplay, making the gameplay in pvp more informed... For who my target audience who play pvp or are interested in pvp.

Your opinion is yours and is fair to have one. I in the other hand feels that if pvp quality gets better i could care less about quantity. I am not trying to give anybody any perspective on how they should feel about pvp. Don't assume, please.

As for fair you are mistaken, in any shooting pvp game you get shot you are going to die, headshot count for more, and weapons ... Everyone has weapons that are most tangible as best cause they are easier to use. The reality here is pvp set up of fairness is similar to other pvp games where shooting is a thing... It is just a faster pace with more mobility and parts.

It being fair has nothing with it being relevant, in player vs player games there is always unfairness as long as there is variety, because of combinations and synergy from the choices.

To summarize you are stating that because it is irrelevant my post doesn't matter, you are putting the label of irrelevant on it while i find it relevant we are not on the same bases from the start. I think is fair when i look at the overall picture because this game mode isn't giving anybody an advantage unless your computer is fast but then what game doesn't. You are taking it piece by piece finding stuff wrong ,but hey if the world is unfair to everyone the world is fair...people change that balance.

 

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19 minutes ago, Kontrollo said:

At this point it's very likely they have more dev investment than anything that's currently in the Conclave Syndicate. The devs have announced that raids will return, after all. I'm patiently waiting for that, too. The difference between you and me is probably that I can wait without calling for the removal of unrelated/disliked things from the game.

Don't mistake Raiding as my axe...My concern is that Conclave shouldn't exist at all.

Raiding, comparatively, at least had the benefit of being PvE and DE removed it anyway...leaving the question of why Conclave is allowed to exist looming quite large to me now. 

I'm entirely fine with calling for the removal of Conclave at this point for a few reasons:

  • It's not balanced.
  • It won't be balanced without additional development and assets that it doesn't rate.
  • It rewards garbage gameplay in that builds outperform skill...I do not think you can honestly assert otherwise (which, incidentally, makes this whole thread a farce)
  • It rewards geeking latency.

Put simply, Conclave is a mode that currently rewards unfair gameplay against other players while not being a tentpole for this game's revenue to begin with.

32 minutes ago, Kontrollo said:

Rewards: somehow only the Conclave Syndicate is not allowed to have exclusive rewards now, I guess? And if you remember back in the day when they introduced Conclave 2.0 and its syndicate, the discussions revolved around that Syndicate not having rewards which is relevant for progression in the game. DE obliged back in the day, so now I guess we can move the goalposts, right? 🤨

It's less about the rewards (most are trash) and more about a couple of different things...

  • The moment PvP dictated development decisions in a PVE game the question should immediately be about what drives the business.

Clearly, PvP doesn't drive the business here.

  • It's patently obvious that there is nothing balanced or fair about Conclave all the way down to how poor the hosting for matches is.

Yet, DE has opted to incentivize this for some insane reason.

 

So while you might think the topic is about enticing new suckers to come get fleeced in your Conclave....I think the question should be about why Conclave is allowed to exist at the expense of PvE to begin with.

Can you answer that question?... I bet you can't.

 

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22 minutes ago, Leavith said:

Of the top of your head and since you know how they work with higher depth, what would be the best element type for each weapon type. 

Now i am gonna set you some rule your primary will be semi-auto or burst

While your secondary will be fully automatic

And melee can vary from dagger to axes(no restriction).

With that being case using the 4 main elements what would be a good set up of what elements should go with what type of weapon

Am I understanding this right? Only the 4 basic elements, but I can just make up any weapon I want?

Well, first off, it still depends on your personal playstyle and how you want to approach a fight -- e.g. some people vastly prefer automatic weapons over semis, and then you'd run around with your secondary most of the time.

That being said, a popular strategy is to get some high-powered semi shots in (e.g. sniper), then finish your opponent off with an automatic or melee. In that case, and with your rules:

  • You'd want a primary that is good against shields, or at least not bad against it. From the basic elements:
    • Cold is good
    • Electricity, Heat are neutral
  • You'd want a secondary and melee that are good against health, or at least not bad. Again basic elements:
    • Toxin is extremely potent
    • Electricity, Heat are neutral

 

Now an example with weapons that are actually in the game (but have IPS): Rubico has high Impact (good against shields), Furis series has high Puncture (good against health). Anku was a popular 'finisher' melee before The Old Blood, because it has high Puncture, too.

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8 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

Don't mistake Raiding as my axe...My concern is that Conclave shouldn't exist at all.

Raiding, comparatively, at least had the benefit of being PvE and DE removed it anyway...leaving the question of why Conclave is allowed to exist looming quite large to me now. 

...

Sure it isn't, who are you trying to kid?

Dark Sector Conflicts got removed, as well. Opticor Variant got removed, too. Conclave events never returned, either.They already removed things, and in cases without even giving a proper explanation or talking about their future plans on the matter. Simply -- poof.

They did talk about why raids were removed, however, and IIRC it was because they broke a lot from unrelated things. I really hope they're going to be more stable in their next iteration, so there won't ever be a need to remove them again.

 

Now do you have anything on-topic to contribute, or are you just looking for an argument? If the latter, feel free to make a topic from the rest of your post, which I omitted, and ping me there. Or do this through PMs.

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1 hour ago, Leavith said:

I reported posts for two things.

One they were toxic, and please negative opinion have a time and place. This thread isn't  discussing the topic of what your negative opinion where about or the place for it.

Two they had nothing to do with the topic, clearly, the conversations were regarding not the main topic at hand and it kept discouraging conversations as well deviating it from the topic opening thread.

If any opinion are had about pvp go drop them off at the forum category called feedback. Not someone post that isn't discussing pvp existence but how damage works in pvp and damage resistance, and how not understanding causes difficulty for pvp players because the strategies they have don't pan out as damage gets reduced.

 

LOL... so basically it's because you're petty... I knew some conclave players were jaded but blimey you take it to a new level.  Not my fault more people were liking my post than yours....

And they were on topic, you just didn't agree with them, they responded directly to your own title for this thread about enrichment of our gameplay.....but as you didn't agree with them you reported them as toxic....  nope I just said what other were thinking, nothing in your post will enrich my gameplay experience when it comes to conclave, conclave has fundamental issues that need fixing before people will become even remotely interested in it and even then it still wouldn't compare well to games designed around pvp, not just a bolt on to a pve game. 

Edited by LSG501

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Probably because the game wasn't built ground up with it in mind, thus making the core warframe mechanics not directly compatible with pvp so including it off the cuff so to speak was bound to lead to disastrous results unless they somehow got lucky.

It's just like the problem with Archwing/Railjack.

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36 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

LOL... so basically it's because you're petty... I knew some conclave players were jaded but blimey you take it to a new level.  Not my fault more people were liking my post than yours....

And they were on topic, you just didn't agree with them, they responded directly to your own title for this thread about enrichment of our gameplay.....but as you didn't agree with them you reported them as toxic....  nope I just said what other were thinking, nothing in your post will enrich my gameplay experience when it comes to conclave, conclave has fundamental issues that need fixing before people will become even remotely interested in it and even then it still wouldn't compare well to games designed around pvp, not just a bolt on to a pve game. 

I am sorry, but my post is clearly labeled in regards to pvp, you are not replying to my post.

My opening post doesn't talk about anything you have addressed. I didn't delete your post i reported them, so who ever passed judgement believes your post were off-topic from my post or toxic.

I have no authority to remove post.

So no, not out of being petty but out of trying to get my post back on track on what the topic is.

My topic is labeled enrichment of our gameplay- and it has the second part... I am sure you can read, so no you weren't even replying to my title.

Or what i jump into in my opening post that gives you more detail about what i am talking about.

Look i am just gonna assume i am wasting my time with you. You are a lost cause that doesn't even understand what you are doing wrong and who you are blaming. 

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29 minutes ago, Kontrollo said:

Sure it isn't, who are you trying to kid?

Yes...It isn't.

I didn't do trials when they did exist as I didn't find what they implemented as a raid particularly interesting.

Conclave simply has less reason to exist than Raiding...That's simply fact.

32 minutes ago, Kontrollo said:

Dark Sector Conflicts got removed, as well. Opticor Variant got removed, too. Conclave events never returned, either.They already removed things, and in cases without even giving a proper explanation or talking about their future plans on the matter. Simply -- poof.

They did talk about why raids were removed, however, and IIRC it was because they broke a lot from unrelated things. I really hope they're going to be more stable in their next iteration, so there won't ever be a need to remove them again.

Your point? 

They removed dead weight from a dead mode...My point is that they didn't remove enough.

Dark Sectors trolled the bulk of the playerbase...it needed the axe and got it.

Conclave events never returned because PvE players didn't like being forced to PvP to participate in events.

Had players wanted Conclave to enjoy parity...then it's what you (and others) should have been asking for to begin with as opposed to asking for exclusivity.

The difference in this case is that Conclavers have now demanded considerations and threatened reprisals at the expense of the core gameplay.

...That means Conclave needs the axe.

35 minutes ago, Kontrollo said:

Now do you have anything on-topic to contribute, or are you just looking for an argument? If the latter, feel free to make a topic from the rest of your post, which I omitted, and ping me there. Or do this through PMs.

This is on-topic...

This thread has a #conclave tag on it and I want to know why DE lets Conclave exist.

What makes a mode that has no balance and rewards what would amount to outright cheating in any other game have a redeeming value here?

I say,"Nothing" and you aren't convincing me otherwise.

There isn't one thing I have said that isn't true about the Conclave at this point and DE has definitely abandoned other modes for less.

As such, Why are they keeping this farce around?

Is that argumentative?

...Or is it just inconvenient?

Because the question of whether or not it should still exist needs to be asked at this point imo. 

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41 minutes ago, (PS4)AllOrNothinDays said:

Probably because the game wasn't built ground up with it in mind, thus making the core warframe mechanics not directly compatible with pvp so including it off the cuff so to speak was bound to lead to disastrous results unless they somehow got lucky.

It's just like the problem with Archwing/Railjack.

I find pvp to be something to do on the side when i am tired of missions , open world, testing in simulacrum, or farming & grinding.

And i think that's represented by DE commitment to pvp. They don't focus on it but don't remove it because it's a break from the game. While you still play the game. 

Like how cities have parks, you can go to fancy building, movies, restaurants, all this large grand buildings with interesting stuff... Concert and all... But sometimes you need a break from it so you go and chill at the park... You don't got to leave the city for your break, you stay in city and as such have higher chance to keep your expenses in the city.

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22 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

Yes...It isn't.

I didn't do trials when they did exist as I didn't find what they implemented as a raid particularly interesting.

Conclave simply has less reason to exist than Raiding...That's simply fact.

Your point? 

They removed dead weight from a dead mode...My point is that they didn't remove enough.

Dark Sectors trolled the bulk of the playerbase...it needed the axe and got it.

Conclave events never returned because PvE players didn't like being forced to PvP to participate in events.

Had players wanted Conclave to enjoy parity...then it's what you (and others) should have been asking for to begin with as opposed to asking for exclusivity.

The difference in this case is that Conclavers have now demanded considerations and threatened reprisals at the expense of the core gameplay.

...That means Conclave needs the axe.

This is on-topic...

This thread has a #conclave tag on it and I want to know why DE lets Conclave exist.

What makes a mode that has no balance and rewards what would amount to outright cheating in any other game have a redeeming value here?

I say, "Nothing" and you aren't convincing me otherwise.

There isn't one thing I have said that isn't true about the Conclave at this point and DE has definitely abandoned other modes for less.

As such, Why are they keeping this farce around?

Is that argumentative?

...Or is it just inconvenient?

Because the question of whether or not it should still exist needs to be asked at this point IMO. 

I am sorry you are asking in the wrong thread, it has the conclave tag to invite people who have interest in conclave. Not people who want to complain about it to people who can't do anything about it or want to completely bash on it.

I think you need to check what tags are for because if i put the tag for pc what do you think is to discuss PC or to bring into discussion people who play conclave in pc as i do. I cant provide much info to does that play console but other i do know it gets better and friendlier treatment there then pc.

Read the topic title and the opening thread for direction on what my topic is about.

You discussing the validity of conclave here is not in any way what my thread is about. Is not a place to ask question why it exist or why isn't dead. My thread is about damage and just because you think that is irrelevant doesn't make my thread not about what you think is irrelevant. My thread is still about my topic. If you do want to talk about what you want , do it somewhere were it is on topic and the thread is about that, or  Make your own thread. You can also take it to feedback, just not here where this isn't what it was meant to be discussed.

To summarize is off-topic if you do have question why DE does thing ask DE and give them your feedback, not on my thread that isn't and wasn't meant to be discussing any of this, please 🙏 

Edited by Leavith
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I have 0 interest in conclave at all.  I probably will never experience it.  But I found the information interesting.

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37 minutes ago, Leavith said:

Like how cities have parks, you can go to fancy building, movies, restaurants, all this large grand buildings with interesting stuff... Concert and all... But sometimes you need a break from it so you go and chill at the park... You don't got to leave the city for your break, you stay in city and as such have higher chance to keep your expenses in the city.

What good is it if the ride is either busted, has low to zero attendance (people to play against), or no on cleans it up? lol

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I support your thread, OP. I dearly wish I could find any conclave matches on NSW without having to go into the chat and ask if someone wants to play conclave only to have them leave when they aren't roflstomping for easy conclave standing. I'm a PvP gamer at heart, artificial intelligence only offers so much challenge (well, until you start getting into deep learning AI algorithms which is WAY WAY outside the scope of a normal game developer). Endurance arbie-qs with friends are pretty fun but nothing like a good death-match among mates.

My most played game was a Korean MMOTPS PvP game called "GunZ: The Duel" that was so buggy and broken that it came back around to the other side and became a "style" that one had to practice and learn to succeed. It was an intense high-aps game with wall running and jumping, air dashes and incredible mobility. I used to call it the Matrix in game form. Basically, the game programming was S#&amp;&#036; and you could more or less cancel any visual animation with reloading or weapon switching but that didn't cancel the actual action. Think "the sword is sheathed but the slash still registers" or "you are shooting but the character is also jumping off the wall and dashing AND slashing" when you really ramped up your aps with action cancels. Most anyone that didn't spend all their time learning the moves then practicing the moves didn't like the game because they couldn't understand why everyone was flying around incredibly quickly and killing them in <1second with point blank shotgun blasts glitchily shot-reloaded-swapped-shot-reloaded-swapped-shot-etc. Warframe strongly reminds me of GunZ in terms of mobility (honestly to the point that I suspect DE took inspiration from GunZ - dunno how I'd confirm but I suspect!) and potential for high actions per second, something like shooting your sniper while you're bullet jumping into an aim glide into a ground slam into... yeah. My point there is I think that means the learning curve for Warframe is way steeper than something like Gears or Halo where all you really needed to do was aim and take cover if I may be so bold. For example in Warframe, completely changing direction in the air with a bullet jump while falling makes a target incredibly difficult to hit, hit-scan weapon or no. Anyone that has spent the time to be good at a highly technical video game like Starcraft or GunZ will innately understand how "small" gaps in skill are extremely exacerbated in PvP play. If, every time, they can kill you 5% faster than you can kill them, you will literally never kill them. That's extremely discouraging to newbies and is primarily the reason I believe people shy away from conclave in Warframe. The skill set you need to succeed in conclave is so strikingly different than a successful PvE setup that players simply don't understand why they are just dying and dying and not getting any kills. Well duh, someone said it great: humans aren't going to just conga line up for you to mow them down. Conclave requires a completely different skill set.

Unfortunately, I think that ultimately means the problem with conclave is player mentality. "If I'm not going to win and I'm not going to get any worthwhile (extrinsic) rewards, why play?" Well, the obvious answer is because you have fun confronting the challenge other humans offer you. Warframe as a PvE looter shooter doesn't usually attract those individuals and so conclave flounders with no players. It's not actually a bad mode as far as I can tell - it doesn't seem like there is an obvious frame that dominates and it doesn't seem like there is an obvious primary/secondary/melee that dominates. Of course, I'm not nearly as in-the-know as I could be since I'm on NSW and have no real way to get a glimpse of the PC meta if indeed there are enough players to have fleshed one out so take that assessment with a grain of salt.

I support your thread, OP. I dearly wish simply giving advice to players about conclave would enamor them with the game mode. It's just a completely different beast that they don't understand and didn't originally download Warframe to understand.

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7 minutes ago, (PS4)AllOrNothinDays said:

What good is it if the ride is either busted, has low to zero attendance (people to play against), or no on cleans it up? lol

I am sorry, but that's no question for me because i don't see it like that. I play pvp when i am burned out playing against AI. I am not trying to convince you here this is my preference. PVP is my break from warframe, yet i can still be playing warframe.

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1 hour ago, Padre_Akais said:

Your point? 

My point is that you brought up raids as an excuse to distract from the intended topic. I also told you how to proceed if you really want to discuss that. So please stop trying to derail.

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In this topic we have a well thought out explanation on how damage works against other warframes when compared to the base game with no ill will behind it and yet we have people feeling the need to express how much conclave rustles their jimmies.

Conclave is technically the most skill based mode in the game because you are up against an enemy that can evolve and be better than the AI.If you hate it or just aren't good at it that's fine, no need to wish for the complete removal of the mode however.

This topic was designed for the people who are new to it or just aren't good at it and want to be better. I can support that even if I no longer play conclave.

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