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ByroSphere

Suggestions for a Conclave remake

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As things are now, not only does The Conclave have a population problem with it being very hard to get a match in most game modes, but there is also a constant issue with the balancing, both from the aspect that people who want to play fair will have a hard time getting that, while it generally just takes too much time integrate new warframes and weapons as it's generally difficult to rebalance them in general.

 

So my suggestions are to ditch this rebalance process altogether and instead have a "Freedom mode" where you basically just pvp with all of your gear and abilities available, and a "Restrictive mode" where  no frame abilities are allowed with the weapons being randomly generated/picked across the stage. Any other existing game modes like 1vAll, Lunaro and etc should all be merged into a mixer for the Freedom/Restrictive matches, with the players basically having to vote for either of those gametypes instead of stages.

 

The Restrictive mode is meant for players that only want to play balanced matches without any overwhelming advantage, so players will be limited to only use a selective pool of pvp approved weapons. One random set of main/sub/melee that spawns for all players at the start, but with the rest appearing in Halo/Unreal Tournament-like spawn points that any player can take at the leisure, with the spots cycling through different weapons each time they are picked out.

 

While the "Freedom mode" is supposed to appeal to players who just want to go crazy and try anything out. EVERYTHING, not just including the latest Warframes/Weapons but also gear like Health/Energy Packs, Drones, Air Strikes and Clem + Operator Powers and Riven mods, shall be enabled. The only modifications that should be enforced, is that no invulnerability is allowed (abilities like Valki's 4 that does so, will be changed to give armor buffs instead). Otherwise everything is  supposed to work exactly like in the main game, balance be damned.

Any thoughts?

Edited by ByroSphere
Changed "fairness" into "balance", cause it's more appropriate

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Freedom mode would be ridicolous. Banshee /Ember /Equinox and similar would be horrendously op to the point where its even less fun than current conclave.

Rahetalius made a good video on conclave reworks just a bit ago, you should check that out. The base idea is to make conclave lean more towards PvEvP to make it more compatible with Warframes PvE nature.

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there is only one way I can see conclave being actually made integral part of the warframe again, but that would require DE to properly refrigginbalance everything, and it would come with balancing paradigm shift that alot of braindead wf players would take as nerf of their stuff, and at this point I do not think that DE is either brave enough, or competent enough to actually pull that off.....

 

so I made my peace with conclave being deadweigh that was not removed from the game only because "it's a part of de vison of da gaem hurrdurr"

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How exactly would it bring players in?

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14 minutes ago, Vespilan said:

Freedom mode would be ridicolous. Banshee /Ember /Equinox and similar would be horrendously op to the point where its even less fun than current conclave.

Rahetalius made a good video on conclave reworks just a bit ago, you should check that out. The base idea is to make conclave lean more towards PvEvP to make it more compatible with Warframes PvE nature.

Banshee/Ember/Equinox might be op in PvE, because they can clear out an area of grunts in seconds, but the players are less like grunts and more like highly mobile bosses, they probably could tank/avoid some of the AoE and take those frames out before dying themselves. Include the operators and gears into the mix and you could see the birth of more game tactics besides bulletjumping + spray & pray.

 PvPvE mode also sounds like fun, but if it's going through a balancing process like in the present, then it'd still mean that you will have to wait ages  to play as the latest warframes, with some being undisputably op,and no way to filer it ingame. At least my suggestion involves splitting the crazy stuff into a separate mode, with better balance in another.

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3 minutes ago, Xaero said:

How exactly would it bring players in?

There would be a higher chance of getting a match because now you only have to select between 2 modes instead of 4. While you could play as any Warframe as you'd like, because Freedom Mode would have you basically play with your usual loadouts without much modifications (no need to wait for rebalance patches, besides the ones done in general). While the Restrictive mode applies a general restriction, so it doesn't take as much time to integrate new frames.

 

I'd also assume that more people would try out Team Annihilation, Cephalon and Lunaro,  because in this case you only choose them after forming up a lobby with players, instead of relaying on chance to choose a match that is likely empty.

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Pvp in warframe could be amazing and fun if done right. I'd like to see something similar to the solar rail, dark sector battles. No mods on weps-frames. Instead reward power or wep damage with a pick-up or a certain type of kill for so many seconds. I've also said in the past that if DE brought the bigger squad back, a regular map would be great. I was thinking similar to battlefield and the conquest or rush modes. 

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1 hour ago, Elenortirie said:

there is only one way I can see conclave being actually made integral part of the warframe again, but that would require DE to properly refrigginbalance everything, and it would come with balancing paradigm shift that alot of braindead wf players would take as nerf of their stuff, and at this point I do not think that DE is either brave enough, or competent enough to actually pull that off.....

 

so I made my peace with conclave being deadweigh that was not removed from the game only because "it's a part of de vison of da gaem hurrdurr"

Everything doesn't have to be super balanced tho. You could either make a game mode that is explicitly about leaving the balance of everything other than wether or not you can killed,-out of the window, or you just restrict everything unbalanced and only enable stuff that can be controlled.

 

That's essentially the idea with the Freedom/Restrictive modes. People that play Freedom, are people that are supposed to have abandoned any pretense of fairness, and generally just want to have fun with the stuff they have, in any way they possibly can. While Restrictive mode is there for anyone who just wants to play on even terms, with appropriate general restrictions.

This could make Conclave more integrated to the game, since your Warframes would play a lot more like the main game instead of a special reworked version of it. Heck, general rewards like gears, relic and riven mods would become more relevant than ever because they directly affect the Freedom mode, so there is more of a reason to include them into the Conclave shop. While all of the current Conclave exclusive mods, can be made into general mods, since then there would be no technical differences between the conclave and the rest of the game.

Edited by ByroSphere
grammar
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21 minutes ago, ByroSphere said:

While all of the current Conclave exclusive mods, can be made into general mods, since then there would be no technical differences between the conclave and the rest of the game.

That being said I'd deffo like the idea of conclave pull augument being available in core game....

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vor 1 Stunde schrieb ByroSphere:

they probably could tank/avoid some of the AoE

Are you sure you know how these frames work?
Equinox day forms maim hurts people in a large AoE radius. Unless you are away from her atleast 70m at all time, Equinox will hurt you. There is no dodging that.
Ember's 4 is auto aim and consumes energy per target, rendering it at an ridicolously low energy consumption if only against one target.
Banshee's 4 can be modded for insane range and with the augment you can easily just spam it.
 

vor 1 Stunde schrieb ByroSphere:

Include the operators and gears into the mix and you could see the birth of more game tactics besides bulletjumping + spray & pray

Oh yeah, let us totally include the literal INVINCIBLE space children into a PvP gamemode that have the ability to HEAL EVERY WARFRAME while both they and the Warframe are invincible. Yeah, no. Let alone the instant win that Magus Lockdown would be.

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Conclave 1.0 had unrestricted gear. It made such a poor impression that most veterans never gave Conclave a shot after that, even when it was reworked, and created a culture where mentioning Conclave was taboo. Rahetalius also overlooks the fact that the core gameplay of Conclave is tight: a loadout/arena shooter with off-the-wall mobility.

The suggestions I've seen involve implementing a ranked system where players are matched against others of similar skill. Ideally, this would remove the need for any major reworks because players would go up against others of a similar skill level. While it may also encourage a "meta" in loadouts, high-skill players already use a variety of weapons, so it's unlikely anything major would change at that end of play.

In addition, balance passes towards addressing AoE and melee weapons would go a long way towards improving subpar gear and nerfing OP gear.

Towards semideum, Conclave is currently the only mode that retains larger squads of eight people. The maps are still relatively small compared to a mission so that players compete over pickups, bringing them together. Larger maps like Compound already are not favored by the community at large.

As for Conclave augments being usable in the base game, I'm all for it - Conclave is largely cut off from the rest of the game and more ways to earn plat are always welcome.

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38 minutes ago, Vespilan said:

Are you sure you know how these frames work?
Equinox day forms maim hurts people in a large AoE radius. Unless you are away from her atleast 70m at all time, Equinox will hurt you. There is no dodging that.
Ember's 4 is auto aim and consumes energy per target, rendering it at an ridicolously low energy consumption if only against one target.
Banshee's 4 can be modded for insane range and with the augment you can easily just spam it.
 

Oh yeah, let us totally include the literal INVINCIBLE space children into a PvP gamemode that have the ability to HEAL EVERY WARFRAME while both they and the Warframe are invincible. Yeah, no. Let alone the instant win that Magus Lockdown would be.

Pretty sure Equinox relays on you accumulating damage for it to be lethal, while the average Tenno is too mobile for you to stack up enough damage, unless you already had enough dps to overkill them twice, maim can otherwise be ignored.

Can't Ember's 4 be dodged with a bullet jump? There is roughly a second delay after it's casting before it falls into the position of a target. Unless it's homing I'd say it's  manageable, although how does it compare to a maxed out armor build?

Banshee's build may have crazy range and is spammable, but it's mostly ground borne, the knockout effect as a cooldown so recovery is possible, while it makes her  unablec to move in the midst of it (read; easy pickings for snipers/jumping players).

 

As for the operators, you do know that your warframe loses a chunk of their health every time the operator dies, right? Combine that with the "no invulnerability rule", essentially means no i-frame  when going back into frame nor when void dashing/invisible (so unless you are careful, you could die twice instantly).

With that said, I guess stun abilities like Magus Lockdown can be fairly op, especially with it's sleep effect. So, how about if all paralysis/sleep abilities caused slow instead? It's alright for it to be strong, so long as it's possible escape the assault and return the favor.

 

With that said, since operators are supposed to be able to enter the field the Freedom mode should probably only be available to people that have cleared The War Within to play it. 

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1 hour ago, standardheadache said:

Conclave 1.0 had unrestricted gear. It made such a poor impression that most veterans never gave Conclave a shot after that, even when it was reworked, and created a culture where mentioning Conclave was taboo. Rahetalius also overlooks the fact that the core gameplay of Conclave is tight: a loadout/arena shooter with off-the-wall mobility.

Did the unrestricted gear also include gear items like health packs,  npc assistance, the element of the teleporting operators  as well as anywhere as many defensive mods as nowadays? Cause I imagine there are far more items and builds that counterplay each other nowadays than it did in beta. There also is a higher entertainment value because there are more things you can experiment with now, than in the past, while unrestricted Conclave was a greater taboo because the unrestricted matches were the only pvp options available.

 

I think something like the Freedom mode will be the most acceptable when there is a more balanced alternative right next to it, cause sometimes people want to be op even in pvp, but it should never be at the expense of any option for a straightforward, fair fight (hence why I recommend 2 separate modes).

1 hour ago, standardheadache said:

The suggestions I've seen involve implementing a ranked system where players are matched against others of similar skill. Ideally, this would remove the need for any major reworks because players would go up against others of a similar skill level. While it may also encourage a "meta" in loadouts, high-skill players already use a variety of weapons, so it's unlikely anything major would change at that end of play.

Yeah, there definitely needs to be a ranking system. Cause even if we say we don't want our gear nerfed or changed beyond recognition, one would still like to face people that one can keep up with, wether it be by having gear that closes the skill gap, or by beating better geared opponents with superior skill (that's bragging rights you wouldn't have in a 100% balanced match).

How about if the starting match rank was based off your MR, but then went higher or lower depending on additional performance? MR20 should start off very high in the scale, cause they presumably have a lot of mods and other perks that gives loads of advantages, but then rank lower if they die way more often than they kill. Much like how a MR5 should start off low, but if they prove their worth, then they should be able to play against the big boys.

 

1 hour ago, standardheadache said:

In addition, balance passes towards addressing AoE and melee weapons would go a long way towards improving subpar gear and nerfing OP gear.

Yeah hopefully. Though, I'd prefer to keep the nerf to a minimum and only apply it to weapons that utterly destroys everything else. Otherwise I'd only suggest to exclude them for the balanced Restrictive matches, but otherwise let them be used normally in Free matches much like it's used everywhere else.

1 hour ago, standardheadache said:

Towards semideum, Conclave is currently the only mode that retains larger squads of eight people. The maps are still relatively small compared to a mission so that players compete over pickups, bringing them together. Larger maps like Compound already are not favored by the community at large.

I share the same sentiment for the most part. The current Conclave stages are already big enough that sometimes you could spend a quarter of the match running around without finding your opponents. So Id generally suggest against larger maps unless the conclave becomes more popular and somehow gets a higher player count.

1 hour ago, standardheadache said:

As for Conclave augments being usable in the base game, I'm all for it - Conclave is largely cut off from the rest of the game and more ways to earn plat are always welcome.

Couldn't agree more.

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4 hours ago, ByroSphere said:

The Restrictive mode is meant for players that only want to play balanced matches without any overwhelming advantage, so players will be limited to only use a selective pool of pvp approved weapons.

I think this is on the right track, I'd like to add that it probably wouldn't hurt to limit the pool of available warframes as well. Looking at the previous replies, it's clear that there are some warframe kits that are perceived to be bad for PvP, so it might be good to have a game mode where that can be minimized. This might also remove the need for matchmaking, as firepower can now be effectively moderated just by updating the database of omitted warframes/weapons.

As for freedom mode, I don't have much to say. Though I'd recommend random nightmare conditions popping at certain intervals (melee only, no shields, etc) to spice thiings up, because this will definitely be where overpowered builds are expected to show up. I wouldn't have a problem with it, because I can only see myself playing restricted.

Less variables, less exploits, less stuff to worry about. Imagine a MOBA round 5v5, where every hero is expected to have 20 different options, and you're expected to be able to counter them at any given time; they actually do but even MOBAs have the mercy of dripfeeding those options over the course of a game allowing you to get a gist of your enemy's progression, as well as shut down their options if you play well. But Conclave is a mode where everybody has a full loadout from the beginning.

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Colour me strange, but I'd probably play the unrestricted mode more than the restricted one. Of course, it may need further tweaks than just invincibility so certain things aren't outright broken (as has been mentioned before), with instant respawn timers, and it shouldn't be a replacement for balanced Conclave (whatever form(s) that may take). But it would be nice to have, just to mess around.

And I think "just to mess around" is key: I don't believe it's a good idea to take the unrestricted mode seriously with ranking or whatnot else, beyond ensuring people aren't stifled in their insanity.

Bonus points, IMO, if there are other options for dedicated servers running unrestricted games. E.g., zero damage from abilities, or permanent nightmare conditions. Or Opticor-only. Even if it's just in a config file, no GUI attached. Something like a server browser would almost be required at that point, but if there's more control in the players's hands to make the games they want—and it's advertised what players are getting into when they join—then...

I feel like I should mention that some tweaks in the unrestricted mode could also be applied to PvE. Thus it could also be used as a testing sandbox. For example, they could test out a QTE for when players are affected by sleep abilities, and then—once they've fussed out those technical kinks aside from PvE—implement a boss enemy that can sleep Warframes. Or they could see about DPS caps on player-against-player damage, test that in PvP, polish it, implement that in PvE, and rad procs and self damage suddenly become a lot more reasonable. And us players have somewhere to test those budding ideas, instead of DE relying on not-always-accurate internal testing.

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7 hours ago, ByroSphere said:

your epic post

Conclave was actually balanced very well up until PoE came out. We got monthly updates and balance passes and people enjoyed it. There wasn't anything broken, and if there was it was soon patched. I think the issue of conclave is that it is not hard to balance as many people who are inexperienced with conclave would think, it is that DE is occupied with other ventures at the moment.

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12 minutes ago, (XB1)The Repo Man151 said:

Conclave was actually balanced very well up until PoE came out. We got monthly updates and balance passes and people enjoyed it. There wasn't anything broken, and if there was it was soon patched. I think the issue of conclave is that it is not hard to balance as many people who are inexperienced with conclave would think, it is that DE is occupied with other ventures at the moment.

Namely, releasing two new modes of play and putting almost all their support towards those new pieces of content. I bet the first few releases of New War are going to be focused on fixing the quest as well. It's unlikely we'll see any notable changes until these have been polished to a glimmering finish.

Edited by standardheadache
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7 hours ago, ByroSphere said:

As things are now, not only does The Conclave have a population problem with it being very hard to get a match in most game modes, but there is also a constant issue with the balancing, both from the aspect that people who want to play fair will have a hard time getting that, while it generally just takes too much time integrate new warframes and weapons as it's generally difficult to rebalance them in general.

 

So my suggestions are to ditch this rebalance process altogether and instead have a "Freedom mode" where you basically just pvp with all of your gear and abilities available[...]

"There can't be balance issues if there is no balance". However, you forget that balance is important for any sort of competition in order to give everyone similar chances to win.

7 hours ago, ByroSphere said:

and a "Restrictive mode" where  no frame abilities are allowed with the weapons being randomly generated/picked across the stage.

Picking up weapons sounds like a neat idea, but i'm not sure about warframe powers working that way. I think that bringing back Opticor variant would be a much better way to provide that arena feel since powers were removed and everyone was wielding an instakill weapon.

7 hours ago, ByroSphere said:

Any other existing game modes like 1vAll, Lunaro and etc should all be merged into a mixer for the Freedom/Restrictive matches, with the players basically having to vote for either of those gametypes instead of stages.

I think that Cephalon Capture could use a rework or be disabled since it has too many flaws, i would actually love to see it replaced by Opticor Variant tbh, even if it's "temporarily" *wink* while DE works on improving it.

7 hours ago, ByroSphere said:

While the "Freedom mode" is supposed to appeal to players who just want to go crazy and try anything out. EVERYTHING, not just including the latest Warframes/Weapons but also gear like Health/Energy Packs, Drones, Air Strikes and Clem + Operator Powers and Riven mods, shall be enabled.

Sounds like simulacrum with friendly fire enabled to me. Being able to spawn mpre maps there would be amazing, tough.

7 hours ago, ByroSphere said:

The only modifications that should be enforced, is that no invulnerability is allowed (abilities like Valki's 4 that does so, will be changed to give armor buffs instead). Otherwise everything is  supposed to work exactly like in the main game, balance be damned.

I'm curious about how would stuff like Shadows of Dead, Celestial Twin, Wukong's passive or powers with crowd control (Bastille, Chaos, Mind Control, Strangle Dome, etc) work in your all out concept.

7 hours ago, Elenortirie said:

there is only one way I can see conclave being actually made integral part of the warframe again, but that would require DE to properly refrigginbalance everything, and it would come with balancing paradigm shift that alot of braindead wf players would take as nerf of their stuff, and at this point I do not think that DE is either brave enough, or competent enough to actually pull that off.....

They already rebalanced everything without touching PvE's lack of balance, so no need to worry much about it.

7 hours ago, Vespilan said:

Rahetalius made a good video on conclave reworks just a bit ago, you should check that out. The base idea is to make conclave lean more towards PvEvP to make it more compatible with Warframes PvE nature.

I saw the video and the idea is awful. RNG individual objectives that, when completed, put a RNG buff to your team and/or an RNG debuff to enemies and even tough he talks about having a casual and competitive mode he also wants parkour powers disabled from the competitive mode when it should be the one embracing it instead, and the same for mobility related powers but doesn't offer a way to compensate frames with these to make up for their loss, and tbh, i can't take seriously anyone who talks about removing parkour while ptactically not using it in a ~10 minutes long video.

Some sort of MOBA approach similar to solar rail conflicts but with the current PvP balance would be miles better than the usual PvE with additional steps ideas that tend to pop up often.

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2 hours ago, MdzKnight said:

I think this is on the right track, I'd like to add that it probably wouldn't hurt to limit the pool of available warframes as well.

Was thinking along the lines of just disabling all warframe powers so that players can still use their favorite frame, even if it's just for the looks. Though, if we are going to limit warframes as well with their powers allowed... How about adding some spots in the stage that spawns a Warframe that player can change into midmatch?

The idea essentially is, since all of the gear available in the Restricted mode, is going to be limmited into a carefully planned and balanced list, the players might as well have access to all the stuff in that list for said balance, including things that they don't have in their own arsenal. It'd be especially fun if the randomly generated frames/weapons also came with randomly generated colors/skins to give it a special flavor. Though I think this should only be applied into 1vAll/Team Annihilation/Cephalon Capture matches, cause they use fairly big areas with lots of hiding spots. The Lunaro which is mostly a straighforward open plane without any weapons, should just have the player use their own frames like normal.

 

 

2 hours ago, MdzKnight said:

As for freedom mode, I don't have much to say. Though I'd recommend random nightmare conditions popping at certain intervals (melee only, no shields, etc) to spice thiings up, because this will definitely be where overpowered builds are expected to show up. I wouldn't have a problem with it, because I can only see myself playing restricted.

This definitly sounds like a fun idea. Just hope that there is a long brake of "normal" matches inbetween the nightmare hours, cause well, altough nightmares can be fun experiences, the main point with the Freedom Mode is give the players the freedom to pvp in anyway they'd like/can. When a constant nighmare with it's limiting conditions kinda contradicts that in a general sense. That said, I like your idea.

 

2 hours ago, MdzKnight said:

Less variables, less exploits, less stuff to worry about. Imagine a MOBA round 5v5, where every hero is expected to have 20 different options, and you're expected to be able to counter them at any given time; they actually do but even MOBAs have the mercy of dripfeeding those options over the course of a game allowing you to get a gist of your enemy's progression, as well as shut down their options if you play well. But Conclave is a mode where everybody has a full loadout from the beginning.

Now that you mention MOBAs, how does a PvP variation of the defense mission sound? Basically have a match consisting of two teams that got to destroy the other's defense target whilst protecting their own, all while rivlaing NPCs (Grinneer vs Corpus for ex) go around assisting either side (maybe Sun are the Grinneer and Corpus are the Moon?). Balanced matches certainly are great for the average test of skill, tho some funky alternative where skill aint everything could offer some nice change of pace as a pass time. 

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25 minutes ago, Stormdragon said:

"There can't be balance issues if there is no balance". However, you forget that balance is important for any sort of competition in order to give everyone similar chances to win.

Well, in that case, there could be some kind of ranking system so that even when people are allowed to use whatever they want, they are essentially pitted against players that are around the same league as themselves. Otherwise, the only factors I'd consider restricting/modifying are stuff that makes you impossible to kill/defend yourself, cause it's not a true death match if not all players are suspect to death >:P

With that said, I wonder how none-death-matchy game modes like Lunaro would play like with PvE mods and Warframe abilities.

30 minutes ago, Stormdragon said:

Picking up weapons sounds like a neat idea, but i'm not sure about warframe powers working that way. I think that bringing back Opticor variant would be a much better way to provide that arena feel since powers were removed and everyone was wielding an instakill weapon.

Well, the Opticor only matches could be a game mode on it's own right included into the mixer soup I had in mind, altough you could also probably organize a invited match were players only use Opticors throughout the whole match (assuming it's whitelisted in Restricted, or if everyone owns an Opticor in Freedom). Otherwise the stages could be layered with random weapons and frames that you might switch/equip mid battle. In a game mode that is all about balance, all players should have equal access to all enabled arsenal, after all. The ability to switch between a wider practical arsenal than just 3 weapons, would give it an extra flavor that a completely traditional PvP mode would lack (not counting peope that got more than 2 load outs).

 

 

37 minutes ago, Stormdragon said:

I think that Cephalon Capture could use a rework or be disabled since it has too many flaws, i would actually love to see it replaced by Opticor Variant tbh, even if it's "temporarily" *wink* while DE works on improving it.

Been a looong while since I last played a Cephalon Capture  (it was in a different platform too) so I'm not exactly aware with what problems it's facing, but yeah, the opticor mode, as well as any of the seasonal conclave modes should def make a comeback.

 

 

40 minutes ago, Stormdragon said:

Sounds like simulacrum with friendly fire enabled to me. Being able to spawn mpre maps there would be amazing, tough.

That's the idea, but now in big pvp rooms with conclave objectives! Wonder how many unpredictable ways players would find to break the game there ;^)

 

46 minutes ago, Stormdragon said:

I'm curious about how would stuff like Shadows of Dead, Celestial Twin, Wukong's passive or powers with crowd control (Bastille, Chaos, Mind Control, Strangle Dome, etc) work in your all out concept.

Shadows of the Dead and Celestial Twin should work like normal, since they practically are nothing more but glorified spectres (which I also allow). Wukong's passive abilities however that allows him to avoid death, should be nerfed to be triggered when reaching below 30% health instead of acting as a death save outright (attacks that would kill him, should simply kill him). While the Cosmic Armor that would make him invulnerable for 30 seconds, should be changed to instead give him a fairly high armor buff instead (specific numbers/percentages are open for discussion).

All of the brainwashing abilities should be treated as radiation attacks with a high chance for status effect, while all types of abilities that restricts player's movement for longer than a simple knockdown animation (including Sleep Quiver, Rest, Bastille, Condemn etc) should act as if they afflict slow instead of complete restrain, otherwise having the status effects they normally would have.

 

 

1 hour ago, Stormdragon said:

Some sort of MOBA approach similar to solar rail conflicts but with the current PvP balance would be miles better than the usual PvE with additional steps ideas that tend to pop up often.

I second this. Think it'd be neat to have a version of it outside of conclave though. Turning it like some sort of player vs player faction conquest mode, not too different from the Solar Rails, but available in wide territories for all tilsets, with none of the time/mineral costs that it took to build a Solar Rail.

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2 hours ago, ByroSphere said:

How about adding some spots in the stage that spawns a Warframe that player can change into midmatch?

If it's possible, I'm all for it. Might be a good way to tie-in lore (operator transference) as a PvP mechanic. The will stage will occasionally spawn warframes in kneeling down position until 'tagged' by an operator. Might spoil the second dream for some players though.

That, or maybe allow players to select from a small pool of randomly generated warframes with every spawn.

2 hours ago, ByroSphere said:

Just hope that there is a long brake of "normal" matches inbetween the nightmare hours, cause well, altough nightmares can be fun experiences, the main point with the Freedom Mode is give the players the freedom to pvp in anyway they'd like/can.

Yep, there will definitely be normal intervals. The nightmare mode are just a way to counteract the inevitability that if DE were to implement a completely "hands-off" balancing approach to this game mode (like allow rivens in pvp or something), I'm guessing that the majority of players can and will always use the same nigh-invincible builds that will eventually be discovered. If a weapon-lock nightmare appears for example, the community will then be forced to scramble and try new things with those weapons.

I mean I haven't tried the opticor-only game mode myself, but people sure seemed to have enjoyed it.

Off-topic: Just a thought that came to my head, why don't DE combine Lunaro and K-Drives to come up with space ninja Rocket League?

Edited by MdzKnight
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14 hours ago, Stormdragon said:

They already rebalanced everything without touching PvE's lack of balance, so no need to worry much about it.

yes, and by this they yeeted enclave out of the core game into not only it's own island but whole archipelago on different ocean.

Keyword in my post - integral.

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On 2020-01-14 at 7:46 PM, Stormdragon said:

I think that Cephalon Capture could use a rework or be disabled since it has too many flaws, i would actually love to see it replaced by Opticor Variant tbh, even if it's "temporarily" *wink* while DE works on improving it.

would love to see the maps in the Annihilation and TA rotations too like they used to be in the old days

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You need players playing in conclave but conclave is unwilling to explore casual quick PVPVE modes to draw in bodies from the already emplaced PVE player base...even if it isn't Conclave's standard deathmatch, so long as it accessed through the same orbiter station like how Lunaro is you got a chance at garnering interest in the concept of Warframe PVP as a whole....

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7 minutes ago, (PS4)FriendSharkey said:

You need players playing in conclave but conclave is unwilling to explore casual quick PVPVE modes to draw in bodies from the already emplaced PVE player base

Well for one, just look at the pushback against the Grineer vs. Corpus gamemode for instance. That is not exactly a gamemode that would fit Warframe, because it would lack the parkour / weapons that vets love. Even though ideally it would attract players simply looking for some good clean fun, as well as the ones who like the "traditional" (as conclave vets often call it) fps gameplay but doesn't have military shooters installed on their machines, while being able to still farm WF resources.

When I heard about the Grineer vs. Corpus idea, I was blown away by how most of the Conclave community quickly dismissed it because "it's not Warframe". While during this time, we saw the implementation of things like fishing, tenno street fighter, k-drives.

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