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ByroSphere

Suggestions for a Conclave remake

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6 minutes ago, MdzKnight said:

Well for one, just look at the pushback against the Grineer vs. Corpus gamemode for instance. That is not exactly a gamemode that would fit Warframe, because it would lack the parkour / weapons that vets love. Even though ideally it would attract players simply looking for some good clean fun, as well as the ones who like the "traditional" (as conclave vets often call it) fps gameplay but doesn't have military shooters installed on their machines, while being able to still farm WF resources.

When I heard about the Grineer vs. Corpus idea, I was blown away by how most of the Conclave community quickly dismissed it because "it's not Warframe". While during this time, we saw the implementation of things like fishing, tenno street fighter, k-drives.

I think it boils down to two viable fears..

 

1. Any new game mode added for Conclave is panned as dismal and cements the final nail in the coffin.

2. It's wildly successful and their prior conclave game mode of choice dies anyways...

 

Either way the status quo not being shifted means it is still there, even if stagnant they still can revel in what-if scenarios on the forums or reddit...

Edited by (PS4)FriendSharkey

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3 hours ago, (PS4)FriendSharkey said:
3 hours ago, MdzKnight said:

Well for one, just look at the pushback against the Grineer vs. Corpus gamemode for instance. That is not exactly a gamemode that would fit Warframe, because it would lack the parkour / weapons that vets love. Even though ideally it would attract players simply looking for some good clean fun, as well as the ones who like the "traditional" (as conclave vets often call it) fps gameplay but doesn't have military shooters installed on their machines, while being able to still farm WF resources.

When I heard about the Grineer vs. Corpus idea, I was blown away by how most of the Conclave community quickly dismissed it because "it's not Warframe". While during this time, we saw the implementation of things like fishing, tenno street fighter, k-drives.

I think it boils down to two viable fears..

 

1. Any new game mode added for Conclave is panned as dismal and cements the final nail in the coffin.

2. It's wildly successful and their prior conclave game mode of choice dies anyways...

 

Either way the status quo not being shifted means it is still there, even if stagnant they still can revel in what-if scenarios on the forums or reddit...

I'd give it a honest try, but I don't think it'd be able to keep my interest long-term, consider:

  • Have you seen how many people are saying "if you want PvP, play another game"? But there's simply no game out there that plays like Warframe, and I'm here for the space ninjas.
    If they made something that's not about Warframes, then it's not hard to imagine that it'd be worse than one of the dedicated shooter games out there.

     
  • There are already a lot of people who say that they dislike the changes made to Warframes and weapons (compared to PvE). And these are made for the sole reason to make things balanced and fair. Moving even further away from that is likely to produce even stronger aversion.
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4 hours ago, (PS4)FriendSharkey said:

1. Any new game mode added for Conclave is panned as dismal and cements the final nail in the coffin.

2. It's wildly successful and their prior conclave game mode of choice dies anyways...

 

54 minutes ago, Kontrollo said:
  • Have you seen how many people are saying "if you want PvP, play another game"? But there's simply no game out there that plays like Warframe, and I'm here for the space ninjas.
    If they made something that's not about Warframes, then it's not hard to imagine that it'd be worse than one of the dedicated shooter games out there.

     
  • There are already a lot of people who say that they dislike the changes made to Warframes and weapons (compared to PvE). And these are made for the sole reason to make things balanced and fair. Moving even further away from that is likely to produce even stronger aversion.

These are compelling points, I have to say I haven't looked at it this way before. I've always thought that the hatred was born mainly out of assumed malice, like the vets are thinking that their gamemode is being attacked whenever someone suggests another way to do pvp, when the suggestion's intent is not to replace but to coexist, to give an additional reason for players who wouldn't have bothered to look in this direction otherwise, similar to what Lunaro, I believe, was created to do.

For the longest time, I believed that Lunaro not gaining the needed traction is what convinced DE that putting more people on pvp content wasn't worth it, nevermind the multitude of reasons that could have caused it unrelated to the quality of the gamemode itself (long matchmaking times, rewards, skillgap between players).

Will a new way of playing really WF hurt that much? Can DE expect people to get worked up once they try their hands at K-Drive racing for example?

Looking from the outside, it's like there's some passive aggression going on between DE and the community. The community went "keep everything as it is" and DE responded by going "fine, we will no longer touch your Conclave".

And now we're here.

Edited by MdzKnight

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4 minutes ago, MdzKnight said:

These are compelling points, I have to say I haven't looked at it this way before. I've always thought that the hatred was born mainly out of assumed malice, like the vets are thinking that their gamemode is being attacked whenever someone suggests another way to do pvp, when the suggestion's intent is not to replace but to coexist, to give an additional reason for players who wouldn't have bothered to look in this direction otherwise, similar to what Lunaro, I believe, was created to do.

Ah right, good that you mentioned that, too. For people who like playing Conclave, there's a big difference between a suggestion that proposes a new alternative mode and a suggestion that seeks to replace Conclave with something else.

From an outside perspective, that difference might not even be clear when reading a thread, simply because it doesn't spring out to the reader.

 

Then there's also the matter of getting flak pretty much since I can remember about how the devs' time would be better spent on PvE than PvP -- which is either funny or sad depending on how you want to look at it, because Conclave dev investment has dropped almost to zero these past years. And it was a minor part of the game even before that.

 

13 minutes ago, MdzKnight said:

For the longest time, I believed that Lunaro not gaining the needed traction is what convinced DE that putting more people on pvp content wasn't worth it, nevermind the multitude of reasons that could have caused it unrelated to the quality of the gamemode itself (long matchmaking times, rewards, skillgap between players).

Will a new way of playing really WF hurt that much? Can DE expect people to get worked up once they try their hands at K-Drive racing for example?

Looking from the outside, it's like there's some passive aggression going on between DE and the community. The community went "keep everything as it is" and DE responded by going "fine, we will no longer touch your Conclave".

And now we're here.

Honestly, I don't get the hate for Lunaro. It was specifically made for the people who asked for something that isn't shooting at each other. Not my cup of tea, so I went back to regular Conclave after a few games, but still... I've seen some posts here and there from people who said they didn't know it existed and found it quite enjoyable when they tried. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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9 hours ago, MdzKnight said:

Will a new way of playing really WF hurt that much? Can DE expect people to get worked up once they try their hands at K-Drive racing for example?

In cluding new pvp modes that plays different from Warframe does sound interesting... But the thing is, those all different modes shouldn't act as replacements if they are not going to play anything like current Conclave, let a lone the rest of Warframe... When that's basically what many people tend to suggest as a "solution" for the Conclave's problems.

I mean, I personally am all for new modes, but I think the priority should be on making the existing game modes more attractive and accessible, instead of including something completely different that needs it's own maintenance separate from the rest of the game.

Cause the particular problems with the Conclave are the following:

1. It's a fairly small community, so time and region will affect a lot how frequently some players might get a match compared to others.

 

2. The already small community is practically asked to splinter themselves further with the existing 4 game modes, because they each have completely separted lobbies from each other, so people that invest on new and different modes like Lunaro or Cephalon,  are likely to miss out on matches altogether, because most pvp players will generally prefer classic 1vAll.

3. The Conclave functions differently from the maingame, so it requires additional maintenance unique to itself, when DE has been fairly neglectful towards it, since most of the attention goes to the main PvE content only.

4. The Conclave is also always behind the main game in terms of frames and weapons because of said differences. So players that want to test out the new gear, are all essentially forced to do so elsewhere, until it gets rebalanced to fit in Conclave specifically.... Which might take ages if it happens at all.

5. There is a lack for any real sense of progression, because most of the rewards you get in the conclave, can only work on the minigame that is Conclave... Despite being every bit as grindy as the main game, which has more worthwhile rewards.

6.There is a lot of ping problems due to the lack of any dedicated server.

7. On top of all those problems, the Conclave has a steep learning curve which will throw most of the newbe players off guard, cause the main game gives very little preparation for high mobility fights.

 

So... yet another game mode, wether it be 1vall with some added flavor, or something that plays completely differently, probably won't change the situation much, unless more fundamental stuff changes first. Which things we should prioritize is open for discussion.... But I think a game merger would be a good start.

 

 

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On 2020-01-17 at 3:10 PM, ByroSphere said:

Including new pvp modes that plays different from Warframe does sound interesting... But the thing is, those all different modes shouldn't act as replacements if they are not going to play anything like current Conclave, let alone the rest of Warframe...

They're not replacements, that's the thing. It's mainly intended as an additional mode, an additional option. If you're someone who prefers the original gamemode over this one, then this mode shouldn't persuade you nor any other player to change how you play. Similar to how the 'restricted' and the 'freedom' versions of Conclave being discussed now, it's all about giving players choices over how they play and who they play against. If you're someone who wants to relax and not ruin your fingers, you could play CorpVSGrineer, but if you want high-octane ninja action, or you've farmed enough conclave rewards from the other modes, then you can go freedom mode using your now-stacked conclave warframe. It's up to you.

On 2020-01-17 at 3:10 PM, ByroSphere said:

I mean, I personally am all for new modes, but I think the priority should be on making the existing game modes more attractive and accessible, instead of including something completely different that needs it's own maintenance separate from the rest of the game.

Totally agree on this. I just took on a tangent in regards to the additional modes to bring up a point as there are members of the community that abhor any form of change and it might have finally discouraged DE from associating with it.

Now, as for the gamemode taking up limited devtime it probably doesn't deserve, that's a fair point. Though sadly it's a point that stands because devtime is the one thing Conclave stopped having.

 

As for the points you brought up in regards to the existing Conclave problems, I did notice that most of it is related to the way the current game/interface handles player experience when it comes to finding matches and ongoing games, and I have your back when you say it is one of the first that needs fixing first. One of the mini-ideas I have is to allow the pvp panel on your orbiter to always show the player count on all gamemodes the same way the main center panel tracks your quest progress. That way it's easy to see when the players are starting to gather to start matches, and the refresh rate should be frequent enough that a player who queues up will be soon immediately seen by others minutes after he started.

 

On 2020-01-17 at 3:10 PM, ByroSphere said:

So... yet another game mode, wether it be 1vall with some added flavor, or something that plays completely differently, probably won't change the situation much, unless more fundamental stuff changes first. Which things we should prioritize is open for discussion.... But I think a game merger would be a good start.

Couldn't agree more.

Edited by MdzKnight
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How about a uncounted friendship mode?
Sometimes i wish to play PvP without any affection on my Stats,
but at the Simalcum everything have PvE-Strengh.
That's not fun for long time.

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5 hours ago, ShadowShaikan said:

How about a uncounted friendship mode?
Sometimes i wish to play PvP without any affection on my Stats,
but at the Simalcum everything have PvE-Strengh.
That's not fun for long time.

I'm not sure if I fully understand. Have you tried dojo dueling? You get PvE stats on everything and usually an absurdly low ttk for that reason.

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You can switch your matchmaking to Invite Only instead of public, then you can host a private Conclave match which will not affect your Profile Conclave stats. 

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A Friend i got by Warframe told me how to create a "private" Conclave-Match...
(more or less) ^^
Yeah sorry i was mean i want doing PvP with friends and not Randoms and i wasn't know, until now.

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