Jazzing Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 This been brought up here in the past, I been playing the game on and off since 2015 no real reason I drop the game I enjoy it, the community helps staff are sincere with tickets I been sending in the past on problems I had or questions. But something that never was resolved was color blind solutions. See, always it was this option of playing with brightness or Gamma and such. But it does not work like that. For example, my issue is my color-blind leads me to not being able to tell different shades and hues from one another, i am training to rank up to mastery 10 right now and the white platforms to me look just like the same shade the background is in. I really cannot tell the difference. Another example is in a dark map or rooms and debuffs, a lot of times the hues of dark areas in Warframe cause the debuff for me to blend in with the map along with same type color signatures that appear on large map which can impair reaction time or planning, forcing me to try and find a lighter area or force my eyes into the screen in hopes that I do not miss anything. I asked for solutions online in chats and i understood there is no colorblind mode, but I have to admit the community been supportive on alternative suggestions and tried to aid me with several creative ideas sadly they didn't work but the sympathy in chat and understanding to how staggering it can turn a mission to was very comforting and for that I am grateful. But I really think some built-in options for color-blind should be more accessible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uhkretor Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 Although there is no "Colorblind Mode" option, I think that the accessibility is natively present on most things that may cover the most general cases... At least, that's what they're aiming at, don't know exactly how far they've gone with it... But~ aren't there different types of Colorblind condition? It may be possible that the general accessibility measures are presenting different results than intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeMonkey Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 50 minutes ago, Uhkretor said: At least, that's what they're aiming at, don't know exactly how far they've gone with it... They aimed for it. They missed. There really isn't a "one size fits all" general accessibility that covers every situation for every player. Tools should be provided that allow us, the player, to pick an overarching filter, as well as tools that allow us to custom set the colours of HUD elements so that we can find the settings that work for us, as opposed to the impossible attempt to find settings that work for everyone. 54 minutes ago, Uhkretor said: But~ aren't there different types of Colorblind condition? Correct, however the main colours are Red and Green, and to a large extent Brown as well. Blue/Yellow colourblindness is much rarer, and Monochromancy rarer still. Red is of course, one of the colours that DE use quite regularly to denote important information. - Downed Allies - Buff timers - Mining nodes - Active state of focus nodes - Enemy health - Arbitration drone connections, although iirc that's changed significantly since I last played. And most staggeringly of all, red is used as the main body of text in the "high contrast theme" made for people with colourblindness, set against a blue/purple background. This is... not good, from a design point of view. Chromeostereopsis is one of the biggest ways of causing eye strain, and whilst artistically it can be used to create depth in an image, for a professional user interface it is... to put bluntly, stupid. The last thing you want to do is strain the eyes of your users, especially when they're using a "high contrast theme" because they're already struggling with colours. All these problems come, seemingly, from a single core root. DE are trying to use software filters to try and see the game from the perspective of a colourblind person, instead of just... listening to the colourblind people who are actually trying to help. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCToxic Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 A lot of games have things like being able to customize what color things like waypoints are or have multiple colorblind options to account for different forms of colorblindness or to account for users who have trouble with value and color contrast. It's really something that could help a lot of players, I've heard stories of players unable to see the red orbs in mastery 8 for example and end up struggling to proceed. A lot of text and hud elements in game rely entirely on colors that can blend into the background or are not easy for colorblind players to see, and there's no transparent or opaque background behind most subtitles or icons. An accessibility pass on the game's UI would be helpful for many. As for that Mastery 10 test, Titania's 4 makes it a cakewalk, and many tests allow the use of gear either through the wheel or hotkey so you could use energy pads to give enough to keep something like razorwing up nonstop, negating the need to stand on the platforms more than to start the test. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Red Dough Boy Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 Since you mentioned the support staff you could try sending in a ticket and seeing if they can implement what other games have done with different versions of colorblind modes. I've seen a few shooters where they'll change icons that are typically red to something like purple. Warframe has a lot of colors and things happening on the screen at any one time so I can't imagine what it would be like to not see all the different details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzing Posted January 15, 2020 Author Share Posted January 15, 2020 Il y a 4 heures, KCToxic a dit : As for that Mastery 10 test, Titania's 4 makes it a cakewalk, and many tests allow the use of gear either through the wheel or hotkey so you could use energy pads to give enough to keep something like razorwing up nonstop, negating the need to stand on the platforms more than to start the test. yeah i thought about Titanias but i went another route using Akarius and just moving each time i need to reload. i passed the test, only by guessing the platforms are larger than a standard jump. Il y a 4 heures, DeMonkey a dit : snip a blunt summary of my general feeling with it. Yes, colorblindness is abit more broader but the solutions don't require to reinvent the entire assets of the game. You learn to accept it that nothing will be 100% accessable but accomidate where its possible would go along way. Il y a 2 heures, (XB1)Red Dough Boy a dit : Since you mentioned the support staff you could try sending in a ticket and seeing if they can implement what other games have done with different versions of colorblind modes. I've seen a few shooters where they'll change icons that are typically red to something like purple. Warframe has a lot of colors and things happening on the screen at any one time so I can't imagine what it would be like to not see all the different details. Yes, while also posting this on forum i sent a ticket. I felt i needed to vent it in a post while sending a ticket to support team as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Red Dough Boy Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 56 minutes ago, Jazzing said: yeah i thought about Titanias but i went another route using Akarius and just moving each time i need to reload. i passed the test, only by guessing the platforms are larger than a standard jump. a blunt summary of my general feeling with it. Yes, colorblindness is abit more broader but the solutions don't require to reinvent the entire assets of the game. You learn to accept it that nothing will be 100% accessable but accomidate where its possible would go along way. Yes, while also posting this on forum i sent a ticket. I felt i needed to vent it in a post while sending a ticket to support team as well. Fair enough, best of luck to you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzing Posted January 16, 2020 Author Share Posted January 16, 2020 this is the letter i received from support, they do understand the problem and acknowledge it: Citation Hello Jazzing, Unfortunately Color Blind mode is not available at the moment and the best we can do for now is to mess around with the settings such as Contrast, Effects intensity, dynamic lighting, color correction, Bloom, etc. Please do make our development team aware of this and post your request on the Warframe Feedback sub-forum. Our Forums are regularly monitored for new ideas, bug reports along with general feedback about the game, and are the best place to be heard. Thanks for making Warframe a better game for everyone, Tenno! the good thing is this is getting awareness of the situation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twisted_Wisdom Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 Colour blindness in my family is with blue-green. I am fortunate that I am female so it largely didn't effect me, except when i was really young. Colour blindness is sex-linked condition with mostly men being prone to it. Its rare (but not impossible) for women to have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uthael Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 (edited) Some games have a lot of their UI and texture elements designed to be recognizable in pure grayscale. In Warframe, a lot of UI elements are designed with colorblind people in mind. But, that's only "a lot", not "all". I still can't see the difference between yellow and green health bars. And sometimes, it's actually a problem with graphics. A friend of mine (may his acc RiP) had sent me this... Needless to say, he had issues solving the test. Edited February 4, 2020 by Uthael Bolded my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiiat Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 (edited) On 2020-01-14 at 1:47 PM, Uhkretor said: But~ aren't there different types of Colorblind condition? late but yes, there are three main skews, with some sub variations of that.https://www.color-blindness.com/coblis-color-blindness-simulator/ covering the three main skews is sufficient enough, especially with Blue deficiency being rare and actually having very little effect on the looks of most things in the world. but it's also just way easier to actually be smart and just design everything with contrasting fore/backgrounds and to never rely on Colors but also provide very distinctive Shapes and Patterns. or even just.... giving Players actual control over the look of the game, instead of not. but Warframe has only ever even mostly achieved this with Lockers. the rest of the game.... not much effort appears to have been made from 2013 to now. the high Contrast UI Theme probably helps somewhat though. Edited February 5, 2020 by taiiat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmegaVoid Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 On 2020-01-14 at 8:05 PM, DeMonkey said: Red is of course, one of the colours that DE use quite regularly to denote important information. Yeah, I'm only a tad bit colourblind, but a single enemy on the mini-map is easy for me to miss, especially if it's unalerted. 🙁 I've tried playing with the colour filters built into Windows 10 (Start > Settings > Ease of Access > Colour Filters). The protanopia setting helped me a bit with picking out red stuff, but it made some other stuff harder to make out than normal. ☹️ 3 hours ago, taiiat said: design everything with contrasting fore/backgrounds When I were young, I supposed checking for colour-blind issues would be as simple as looking in greyscale, and if everything looked fine without colours it should be okay. When I was able to check that proposition using a computer, I was mega-surprised by how wrong I was. 😮 3 hours ago, taiiat said: giving Players actual control over the look of the game, instead of not Would certainly be nice to be able to tweak the colours on the HUD, at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeMonkey Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 6 minutes ago, OmegaVoid said: The protanopia setting helped me a bit with picking out red stuff, but it made some other stuff harder to make out than normal. Yeah, this was what I found with other games, sadly. I don't have protanopia, merely protanomaly, so the setting doesn't have the same effect for me. 3 hours ago, taiiat said: the high Contrast UI Theme probably helps somewhat though Whilst I'm certainly biased, I'd argue that the high contrast theme fails at it's intended purpose and causes more eye strain than is otherwise necessary, making it objectively a poor theme regardless of colour blindness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiiat Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 1 hour ago, DeMonkey said: Whilst I'm certainly biased, I'd argue that the high contrast theme fails at it's intended purpose and causes more eye strain than is otherwise necessary, making it objectively a poor theme regardless of colour blindness. i wouldn't know, i'm not any type of Colorblind, so i have no idea what it looks like to those with any skew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeMonkey Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 13 minutes ago, taiiat said: i wouldn't know, i'm not any type of Colorblind, so i have no idea what it looks like to those with any skew. You don't need to be, by objectively I meant that anyone can see it as poor for the following reasons. For example, a lot of the sub-headers in the high contrast theme are blue/purple, the background is blue/purple. This is not high contrast, it's literally the complete opposite. The main bodies of text are red on a blue/purple background. This causes chromeostereopsis which is the phenomenon wherein you perceive depth due to the different colour wavelengths. This also strains your eyes, regardless of colourblindness and is a major 'don't' when designing a user interface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiiat Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 (edited) 45 minutes ago, DeMonkey said: You don't need to be, by objectively I meant that anyone can see it as poor for the following reasons. For example, a lot of the sub-headers in the high contrast theme are blue/purple, the background is blue/purple. This is not high contrast, it's literally the complete opposite. The main bodies of text are red on a blue/purple background. This causes chromeostereopsis which is the phenomenon wherein you perceive depth due to the different colour wavelengths. This also strains your eyes, regardless of colourblindness and is a major 'don't' when designing a user interface. oh. i still wouldn't know, as all of the UI Themes other than the Vitruvian one they shipped UI Skins with are objectively bad, as they have poor contrast and bright distracting backgrounds and borders/sections brighter than the contents within them (or the same brightness), Et Cetera. just all so bad. so i wouldn't have looked at 'High Contrast' to see if it was suitable for Colorblind people because of that, just a skim over of them all and being horrified and never looking back. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Edited February 5, 2020 by taiiat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADM-Ntek Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 i have serious issues with the scanner. since that turns everything very orange including the target. makes it near impossible for me to see. wish this game had an option to set individual colors for things. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aadi880 Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 2 hours ago, ADM-Ntek said: i have serious issues with the scanner. since that turns everything very orange including the target. makes it near impossible for me to see. wish this game had an option to set individual colors for things. Doesn't turning off color correction turns off the Synthesis Scanner's orange hue? Also, You can use the Codex scanner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Aeshma Botis Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 Color blind settings could expand player base and we all know thats a good thing. More plat purchased more updates maybe more stuff in general Make it happen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterJ93 Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 (edited) Not only do I wan this to happen, but I very well want DE to improve Warframe with respect to accessibility in general. While it does do some things right in certain areas of accessibility, it falls completely flat in the face with others. If I could write up a post about why this is important in the same vain as how a couple of players have done with their response of Pablo's post on the UI changes, I would, but I fear that DE will not consider it, so I don't even think I'm going to bother trying; my post will barely get enough attention. (As a side note, I would understand if the coding would take a while due to spaghetti code, but still, it needs to happen.) Edited February 8, 2020 by (NSW)MasterJ93 Changed text as to not sound mean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)NemitheNem Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 I have a friend who seems to only have blue cones, so I know this pain. Anyways, for text and things, Classic color theme works well for him. I also suggested on the forum that a vision impaired mode could use the outline effect you get when you cast Banshee's sonar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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