Jump to content
Dante Unbound: Share Bug Reports and Feedback Here! ×

MR9 test rework required to stop losing players stuck on that


--K--Sharkfin
 Share

Recommended Posts

Ever since gauss patch was dropped, enemies sights are skyrocketed. This has a heavy impact on MR9 and 19 tests.

I have seen many players get frustrated playing or even rage quit because of these tests, especially MR9 for new players because it felt like non-sense to them.

When they searched on youtube about how to pass MR9 test, they would most likely look at tutorials recorded before August 2019 ( gauss patch ) in which the player could crouch 20m in front of an enemy without being detected. Compared to how enemies could see players +100m away without even alerting them, it would definitely trigger some players.

A legit playthrough with melee would requires pattern learning by remembering every move of the enemies. Players would need to parkour to the exact position and paths with little to no forgiving especially on the last stage. Another way to pass the current test is by cheese: Gunblade/Archgun/Wisp passive, you name it.

My suggestion on these tests without altering the detection system:
- add more obstacles/corridors/rooms so enemies that are far away would not detect the player from any angle
Not only does this simulate the real situation like how the normal missions are assembled, but also let players to go for a slow+wait and more forgiving approach on killing unalerted enemies.

- remove ability restriction
The main objective of this test is stealth, why restrict players from using stealth abilities? It would be easy, but isn't it the core of the test? Isn't that how we normally play stealth in missions? Regarding to nuke frame, add one more fail rule on top of being detected, which could be killing enemies besides melee. Players could stun/sleep enemies but not kill them with abilities.

- add gear restriction
It's very funny how we cannot use abilities but gears, which means the player could simply call in an archgun and slap all enemies. The restriction on gear stands besides the unlock of abilities. This could restrict the abuse of abilities with energy pads, so players need to plan well on efficiency with the starting energy on each stage.

Make a stealth test stealth related, not parkour or cheese with gunblade/archgun.

Edited by SHArK-FiN
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, SHArK-FiN said:

When they searched on youtube about how to pass MR9 test, they would most likely look at tutorials recorded before August 2019 ( gauss patch ) in which the player could crouch 20m in front of an enemy without being detected.

This is either bs or over exaggeration. If they can search a "how-to" video on the test, then they can narrow down the search to relative dates and up-to-date methods.

22 minutes ago, SHArK-FiN said:

A legit playthrough with melee would requires pattern learning by remembering every move of the enemies. Players would need to parkour to the exact position and paths with little to no forgiving especially on the last stage.

Is that really a bad thing? The idea behind it is to be able figure it out even if it means there's only one route.

25 minutes ago, SHArK-FiN said:

- remove ability restriction
The main objective of this test is stealth, why restrict players from using stealth abilities? It would be easy, but isn't it the core of the test? Isn't that how we normally play stealth in missions? Regarding to nuke frame, add one more fail rule on top of being detected, which could be killing enemies besides melee. Players could stun/sleep enemies but not kill them with abilities.

To learn how to do and think of other ways with what they have, either limited by the game (nightmare modifiers) or from themselves (they don't have the gear for it but they want to do it as soon as possible). This isn't the first time we had to think outside of what is "normal" against challenges that appeared impossible at first glance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, SHArK-FiN said:

When they searched on youtube about how to pass MR9 test, they would most likely look at tutorials recorded before August 2019 ( gauss patch ) in which the player could crouch 20m in front of an enemy without being detected. Compared to how enemies could see players +100m away without even alerting them, it would definitely trigger some players.

Do you want DE to update all pre-patch videos from Youtube ?

Of course some videos/tutorials are outdated but that's not their problem. They're changing the game. They can add plenty of LoS breaking items as you request, the tutorials will still be outdated (even worse) and they will still be triggered and leave, according to you.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Honestly, i agree. Lets be honest here, Warframe isnt built well as a stealth game. Period, compared to other games designed around stealth, Thief. Or games that have decent stealth elements, Shadow of War, Shadow of the Tomb Raider. Warframe, doesnt have lean mechanics, bait mechanics, cover mechanics, takedown mechanics (that dont involve whacking one enemy with 300% damage and alerting the entire universe).

Frankly, to fix these DE would need to change alot of the game. And a good example on how is to look at Shadow of War, where stealth mechanics are activated when crouching. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2020-01-16 at 12:03 AM, NekroArts said:

This is either bs or over exaggeration. If they can search a "how-to" video on the test, then they can narrow down the search to relative dates and up-to-date methods.

This isn't actually that much of an exaggeration. I've found a few that are dated after but it's always those people that start with "yo yo yo" or "what's up it's your boy" and have terrible audio quality and then proceed to use banshee and redeemer or wisp or some other cheese combination.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

Don't you think the players can use the practice option at vesper relay before taking the test. I personally went there to give it a go few times before I took the test. I did succeed few times with my ash and Dragon nikkana. To be fair, it takes a lot patience and time. 

But there is always the easy option of pairing a agile frame with skiajati, and string it's invisible passive. That's what I did to be safe, use Ash with skiajati. Just learn the routes though practice mod. Find a route you are comfortable with stringing the kills and repeat the same in real test.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have one friend who's stuck on that test, and instead of playing Warframe, he's playing Spiderman (one of the games in his backlong), because it's fun and the test is annoying. He's barely playing any Warframe. This is not an isolated instance.

While many people say "git gud or get out"... that's extremely detrimental to DE's bottom line and player retention, IMO. The new player experience needs work, but this is like a brick wall saying "Stop playing this game." and it needs to be torn down or given a door. It doesn't test any sort of real Warframe skill, because for spy missions, we bring spy frames, with abilities that facilitate undetected movement and killing, so in the end, it's not even teaching anyone any useful skills to take forward into their gameplay.

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

All Mastery Rank tests should be designed to be easy to cheese. Warframe is just as much about building for the situation as it is about using your skill for a situation. If I can take Titania and fly through a parkour test, or take Wisp/Loki/Ivara and go invisible through a stealth test, that demonstrates knowledge of game mechanics and skill just as much as using skill and tactics to dodge the enemies.

That or just make it a spy vault test because spy vaults are a lot more fair for a stealth test.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2020-02-24 at 2:31 PM, (PS4)AyinDygra said:

I have one friend who's stuck on that test, and instead of playing Warframe, he's playing Spiderman (one of the games in his backlong), because it's fun and the test is annoying. He's barely playing any Warframe. This is not an isolated instance.

While many people say "git gud or get out"... that's extremely detrimental to DE's bottom line and player retention, IMO. The new player experience needs work, but this is like a brick wall saying "Stop playing this game." and it needs to be torn down or given a door. It doesn't test any sort of real Warframe skill, because for spy missions, we bring spy frames, with abilities that facilitate undetected movement and killing, so in the end, it's not even teaching anyone any useful skills to take forward into their gameplay.

 

And importantly—in addition to the fact that it tests skills that are useless in actual play—it’s Mastery Rank 9.

Nine. Not 26, not 45. Nine. It should not be anywhere near the roadblock the changes have made it.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

I remember taking my mr 9 and 19 test a month or so before gauss release, then I kept hearing people having trouble doing these tests and just thought they weren't being as careful as they could so I decided to try them again just to be able to tell them that they just need to be more careful.  It was a rather startling change to say the least, first enemy I get near to stealth kill and boom detected, o...k.... maybe I just didn't wait long enough the first time around, so I try and wait, kill first guy get to second kill him and boom spotted.  After about 15 or so more attempts to get past the third guy I realized that these tests were no longer the "just put on enemy radar and watch the arrows before you take your target down" type missions, these had become similar to the old Syphon Filter on PS type mission where you needed to memorize every enemy movement because any slight deviation would instantly fail you.  I'm just glad I finished those tests before the enemy became more "aware" and I feel sorry for those who have to put up with the lotus telling them they failed 20 times because the devs forgot that changing enemy awareness while no big deal for the majority of the game may have a slight impact on a couple of tests that unless passed (at least for mr 9) limit your ability to get better weapons and rivens and thus prevent you from being able to enjoy the game more.  So you have two choices as far as I can see (well maybe three) 1) you redesign all stealth based mastery rank maps to take into account the improved enemy detection. 2) you somehow return enemy awareness for those missions back to oblivious and keep the levels unchanged. 3) you get rid of the stealth tests completely.  It makes no real difference to me what you choose to do since I'm well past those tests but it would certainly mean a lot to those who are trying to do those tests.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2020-03-07 at 4:40 AM, (PS4)T3-21 said:

I remember taking my mr 9 and 19 test a month or so before gauss release, then I kept hearing people having trouble doing these tests and just thought they weren't being as careful as they could so I decided to try them again just to be able to tell them that they just need to be more careful.  It was a rather startling change to say the least, first enemy I get near to stealth kill and boom detected, o...k.... maybe I just didn't wait long enough the first time around, so I try and wait, kill first guy get to second kill him and boom spotted.  After about 15 or so more attempts to get past the third guy I realized that these tests were no longer the "just put on enemy radar and watch the arrows before you take your target down" type missions, these had become similar to the old Syphon Filter on PS type mission where you needed to memorize every enemy movement because any slight deviation would instantly fail you.  I'm just glad I finished those tests before the enemy became more "aware" and I feel sorry for those who have to put up with the lotus telling them they failed 20 times because the devs forgot that changing enemy awareness while no big deal for the majority of the game may have a slight impact on a couple of tests that unless passed (at least for mr 9) limit your ability to get better weapons and rivens and thus prevent you from being able to enjoy the game more.  So you have two choices as far as I can see (well maybe three) 1) you redesign all stealth based mastery rank maps to take into account the improved enemy detection. 2) you somehow return enemy awareness for those missions back to oblivious and keep the levels unchanged. 3) you get rid of the stealth tests completely.  It makes no real difference to me what you choose to do since I'm well past those tests but it would certainly mean a lot to those who are trying to do those tests.

I hadn't reached MR19 before Gauss released. I ended up having to cheese it with Redeemer Prime, even that was difficult. I stayed right on the very first platform, sniping the enemies off one by one. Spent about 3 hours in practice mode working out a pattern to kill them in that i could semi-reliably not get detected. That was after farming for several hours trying to get redeemer prime parts (and eventually resorting to selling all the other prime spam i'd received in order to buy the parts from other players).

Enemies would somehow hear/spot me across the entire map (they were so far away that they were barely a couple of pixels wide on my screen) and that was it, attempt over.

Skiajati i couldn't get to work reliably, if i was late to an enemy and became visible for 0.01s boom, failed, or if i bumped into an enemy too hard trying to go fast.. boom.. failed.

Absolute nightmare.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

I used to play on PC, was a much higher rank than 9, but since a while ago i do not have access to a computer, so i started playing on Switch. For the love that is holy i cannot pass test 9. I've tried just about everything, and i really don't have the patience or time to sink in for this test. DE really needs to tweak this test or their already dwindling playerbase is going to keep dwindling if new players can't progress. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This topic has come up before. I can do the test with any frame or weapon, but since the changes it's clearly over tuned for the level it's at for the majority of players. Many will just throw out a get good comment, instead of admitting there is a problem. Others do  not bother to retake tests, or even know how it changed.

Once again I will say DE needs to revisit tests in general. 

Edited by Nichivo
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow, never fails, the forum dad band wagon just comes on in, guns a blazing, like the Calvary they imagine they are riding to DE's rescue.

Wake up.

You can either have 0% of a game that is failing to retain players, and going to disappear. But that is okay I guess, as you'll still have your Warframe e-peen display cases for how skilled you were to the normies and casuals... along with the fond memories as the principal investors get out selling Warframe to Tencent (Go ahead, tell me how this isn't gonna happen, even though they are always in the market for companies in DE's current position).

Or, maybe, a game that isn't a frustration burn out, with a little more latitude, to maybe, I don't know not have such a horrid quit in first thirty days count? Its a game, as a business, not some sort of purity test to your non existent superiority complexes. It has to... prepare yourself here.. make money by a growing segment of various types of players... enjoying it.... Not sitting about being told a pseudo Get Gud, which there isn't here really, because what you really mean is pay plat for the best cheese frame to get through a part of the content. (Go ahead, tell me there is more actual skill over gear and forehand knowledge to this game..)

OP brought up valid issues, that go beyond a single mastery rank test, as far as new player experience goes.

Basically forum dads, stop thinking of only yourselves and egos... sorry... accomplishments.. and maybe decide you'd rather have a game able to hold the new players it brings in and make a community staying part of.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, (NSW)HanaVanheim said:

I used to play on PC, was a much higher rank than 9, but since a while ago i do not have access to a computer, so i started playing on Switch. For the love that is holy i cannot pass test 9. I've tried just about everything, and i really don't have the patience or time to sink in for this test. DE really needs to tweak this test or their already dwindling playerbase is going to keep dwindling if new players can't progress. 

 

11 hours ago, Nichivo said:

This topic has come up before. I can do the test with any frame or weapon, but since the changes it's clearly over tuned for the level it's at for the majority of players. Many will just throw out a get good comment, instead of admitting there is a problem. Others do  not bother to retake tests, or even know how it changed.

Once again I will say DE needs to revisit tests in general. 

 

31 minutes ago, UilliamNebel said:

what you really mean is pay plat for the best cheese frame to get through a part of the content. (Go ahead, tell me there is more actual skill over gear and forehand knowledge to this game..)

what are you talking about?

i literlly just cheesed it with skana and excalibur... no mods at all... i have the video, just dont feel like uploading it.
i can do it with ANY frame and skana is your very first weapon... hell, i could probably do it with any weapon too.

if you want to rush to the finish line, you will fail... it doesnt matter if it takes you 5min or 5 hours, the goal is still the same, it doesnt reward you for taking less time, nor punish you for taking too long.

anyone having problems is just expecting to run in and kill everything while using a stupid invis ability, then complaining its too hard when they cant do that.
the point of stealth is observing your targets while using cover, like the environment, not some magic ability (even though its a magic ability game).

it literlly is a case of "Git gud"... learn what parkour is, how it can benefit you and do enough practice runs and you wont have problems.
i used bullet jumps, slams, aim glides and rolls, anyone can.

if its not a case of "Git gud", then why are these same people that are complaining about MR 9 test, not complaining about the requirements on weapons being based on MR in the first place?

Edited by 5p33dy_01
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, 5p33dy_01 said:

i have the video, just dont feel like uploading it.

.... Uhm... Well then I have video from in game to. One where I just walked past a Grineer, and he proceeded to tell me...

"What did you just say to me, you little Tenno? I'll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Tusk, and I've been involved in numerous secret raids on the Corpus, and I have over 3,000,000 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I'm the top sniper in the entire Grineer armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before in this Origin System, mark my words. You think you can get away with saying that to me over the network? Think again. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the system and your space IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You're dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that's just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the Grineer Marines and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable self off the face of the Starchart, you little Tenno. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little "clever" comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your mute tongue. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you gosh darn idiot. I will bowl fury all over you and you will drown in it. You're dead, Tenno."

I just didn't feel like uploading it either.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, 5p33dy_01 said:


if its not a case of "Git gud", then why are these same people that are complaining about MR 9 test, not complaining about the requirements on weapons being based on MR in the first place?

Because that is not an issue. The difficulty having changed because of the stealth changes DE made is the actual issue. However if you really want to play the git good card, we can go there. Who should be believed here the tenno with 5275 hours, 18,401 missions with a 99% completion rate, and 0% quit rate, or the tenno with 89%, and an 8% quit rate, and only 4.2k missions, and less than 1k hours. I am saying it's over tuned compared to what it once was, and you need to get good before telling others to get good.

Stones and glass houses! I told you someone would play that card!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Nichivo said:

Because that is not an issue. The difficulty having changed because of the stealth changes DE made is the actual issue.

The detection of enemies have been reverted. No patch note mentioned of this, but I can now stand on edge of the end-second arena without enemies detecting me. I even took it further and dropped into the third arena and stood the edge of the start and still they did not detect me.

Edit: the enemies I'm referring to are the ones in the third arena, first and second arena were cleared.

Edited by NekroArts
clarification
Link to comment
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, UilliamNebel said:

I just didn't feel like uploading it either.

here you go

 

40 minutes ago, Nichivo said:

Because that is not an issue. The difficulty having changed because of the stealth changes DE made is the actual issue. However if you really want to play the git good card, we can go there. Who should be believed here the tenno with 5275 hours, 18,401 missions with a 99% completion rate, and 0% quit rate, or the tenno with 89%, and an 8% quit rate, and only 4.2k missions, and less than 1k hours. I am saying it's over tuned compared to what it once was, and you need to get good before telling others to get good.

Stones and glass houses! I told you someone would play that card!

i used bullet jumps, slams, aim glides and rolls, anyone can.
the point of stealth is observing your targets while using cover, like the environment, not some magic ability (even though its a magic ability game).

i could LITERALLY run in front of them and they didnt detect me... the fail was because i rushed when the enemy was alerted, i could have waited, but that would have made a longer video.


"Git gud, a slang rendering of get good, refers to getting better at a task or skill, used especially among video gamers online"
"Git gud" is just a shorter way of explaning a whole process that someone else can/should learn on their own.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, 5p33dy_01 said:

here you go

 

i used bullet jumps, slams, aim glides and rolls, anyone can.
the point of stealth is observing your targets while using cover, like the environment, not some magic ability (even though its a magic ability game).

i could LITERALLY run in front of them and they didnt detect me... the fail was because i rushed when the enemy was alerted, i could have waited, but that would have made a longer video.


"Git gud, a slang rendering of get good, refers to getting better at a task or skill, used especially among video gamers online"
"Git gud" is just a shorter way of explaning a whole process that someone else can/should learn on their own.

 

More than one attempt? Didn't Nekro say the stealth changes were reverted(Guess I will check it out again tomorrow when I am not busy). Thread is putting me to sleep. 😛

sleepingancient.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, UilliamNebel said:

Good for you.

Now continue ignoring the points I made. Nice video.

you didnt make any points, you were just saying a whole bunch of useless things.
its ok, your kids or grand kids will really enjoy your ridiculous stories, since they wont know any better.

25 minutes ago, Nichivo said:

More than one attempt? Didn't Nekro say the stealth changes were reverted(Guess I will check it out again tomorrow when I am not busy). Thread is putting me to sleep. 😛

i explained why i failed the first time, but it seems your ego got the best of you.

some of us have a life outside of the game, so you can enjoy your upto 10 million hours / missions/enemy levels, i dont care.
the difference between someone killing a level 60 enemy and a level 6000 enemy, is the difference on what kind of life they have.

my point still remains, it does not need changing. if anything, they are too easy.

Edited by 5p33dy_01
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, 5p33dy_01 said:

 

i explained why i failed the first time, but it seems your ego got the best of you.

some of us have a life outside of the game, so you can enjoy your upto 10 million hours / missions/enemy levels, i dont care.

my point still remains, it does not need changing. if anything, they are too easy.

A life outside the game? I did just say when I was not busy, huh it's almost as if I have other things to do. To easy was solo railjack prior to the nerfs which made it trivial. I said I will see if the stealth detection changes where reverted when I am not busy. If they were reverted, then I see no reason for more than one attempt, other than making excuses. 

🥱

Kind of telling you haven't been around long enough to see all the times I complain about content being made easier. If they did in fact revert the detection changes, it may not be an issue, but I will still check it out myself when I have the time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...