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SHArK-FiN

MR9 test rework required to stop losing players stuck on that

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Ever since gauss patch was dropped, enemies sights are skyrocketed. This has a heavy impact on MR9 and 19 tests.

I have seen many players get frustrated playing or even rage quit because of these tests, especially MR9 for new players because it felt like non-sense to them.

When they searched on youtube about how to pass MR9 test, they would most likely look at tutorials recorded before August 2019 ( gauss patch ) in which the player could crouch 20m in front of an enemy without being detected. Compared to how enemies could see players +100m away without even alerting them, it would definitely trigger some players.

A legit playthrough with melee would requires pattern learning by remembering every move of the enemies. Players would need to parkour to the exact position and paths with little to no forgiving especially on the last stage. Another way to pass the current test is by cheese: Gunblade/Archgun/Wisp passive, you name it.

My suggestion on these tests without altering the detection system:
- add more obstacles/corridors/rooms so enemies that are far away would not detect the player from any angle
Not only does this simulate the real situation like how the normal missions are assembled, but also let players to go for a slow+wait and more forgiving approach on killing unalerted enemies.

- remove ability restriction
The main objective of this test is stealth, why restrict players from using stealth abilities? It would be easy, but isn't it the core of the test? Isn't that how we normally play stealth in missions? Regarding to nuke frame, add one more fail rule on top of being detected, which could be killing enemies besides melee. Players could stun/sleep enemies but not kill them with abilities.

- add gear restriction
It's very funny how we cannot use abilities but gears, which means the player could simply call in an archgun and slap all enemies. The restriction on gear stands besides the unlock of abilities. This could restrict the abuse of abilities with energy pads, so players need to plan well on efficiency with the starting energy on each stage.

Make a stealth test stealth related, not parkour or cheese with gunblade/archgun.

Edited by SHArK-FiN

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15 minutes ago, SHArK-FiN said:

When they searched on youtube about how to pass MR9 test, they would most likely look at tutorials recorded before August 2019 ( gauss patch ) in which the player could crouch 20m in front of an enemy without being detected.

This is either bs or over exaggeration. If they can search a "how-to" video on the test, then they can narrow down the search to relative dates and up-to-date methods.

22 minutes ago, SHArK-FiN said:

A legit playthrough with melee would requires pattern learning by remembering every move of the enemies. Players would need to parkour to the exact position and paths with little to no forgiving especially on the last stage.

Is that really a bad thing? The idea behind it is to be able figure it out even if it means there's only one route.

25 minutes ago, SHArK-FiN said:

- remove ability restriction
The main objective of this test is stealth, why restrict players from using stealth abilities? It would be easy, but isn't it the core of the test? Isn't that how we normally play stealth in missions? Regarding to nuke frame, add one more fail rule on top of being detected, which could be killing enemies besides melee. Players could stun/sleep enemies but not kill them with abilities.

To learn how to do and think of other ways with what they have, either limited by the game (nightmare modifiers) or from themselves (they don't have the gear for it but they want to do it as soon as possible). This isn't the first time we had to think outside of what is "normal" against challenges that appeared impossible at first glance.

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42 minutes ago, SHArK-FiN said:

When they searched on youtube about how to pass MR9 test, they would most likely look at tutorials recorded before August 2019 ( gauss patch ) in which the player could crouch 20m in front of an enemy without being detected. Compared to how enemies could see players +100m away without even alerting them, it would definitely trigger some players.

Do you want DE to update all pre-patch videos from Youtube ?

Of course some videos/tutorials are outdated but that's not their problem. They're changing the game. They can add plenty of LoS breaking items as you request, the tutorials will still be outdated (even worse) and they will still be triggered and leave, according to you.

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That would mean I could no longer do the test with mining laser or fishing spear. I think that's too high of a loss.

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Honestly, i agree. Lets be honest here, Warframe isnt built well as a stealth game. Period, compared to other games designed around stealth, Thief. Or games that have decent stealth elements, Shadow of War, Shadow of the Tomb Raider. Warframe, doesnt have lean mechanics, bait mechanics, cover mechanics, takedown mechanics (that dont involve whacking one enemy with 300% damage and alerting the entire universe).

Frankly, to fix these DE would need to change alot of the game. And a good example on how is to look at Shadow of War, where stealth mechanics are activated when crouching. 

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On 2020-01-16 at 12:03 AM, NekroArts said:

This is either bs or over exaggeration. If they can search a "how-to" video on the test, then they can narrow down the search to relative dates and up-to-date methods.

This isn't actually that much of an exaggeration. I've found a few that are dated after but it's always those people that start with "yo yo yo" or "what's up it's your boy" and have terrible audio quality and then proceed to use banshee and redeemer or wisp or some other cheese combination.

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Don't you think the players can use the practice option at vesper relay before taking the test. I personally went there to give it a go few times before I took the test. I did succeed few times with my ash and Dragon nikkana. To be fair, it takes a lot patience and time. 

But there is always the easy option of pairing a agile frame with skiajati, and string it's invisible passive. That's what I did to be safe, use Ash with skiajati. Just learn the routes though practice mod. Find a route you are comfortable with stringing the kills and repeat the same in real test.

 

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I have one friend who's stuck on that test, and instead of playing Warframe, he's playing Spiderman (one of the games in his backlong), because it's fun and the test is annoying. He's barely playing any Warframe. This is not an isolated instance.

While many people say "git gud or get out"... that's extremely detrimental to DE's bottom line and player retention, IMO. The new player experience needs work, but this is like a brick wall saying "Stop playing this game." and it needs to be torn down or given a door. It doesn't test any sort of real Warframe skill, because for spy missions, we bring spy frames, with abilities that facilitate undetected movement and killing, so in the end, it's not even teaching anyone any useful skills to take forward into their gameplay.

 

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All Mastery Rank tests should be designed to be easy to cheese. Warframe is just as much about building for the situation as it is about using your skill for a situation. If I can take Titania and fly through a parkour test, or take Wisp/Loki/Ivara and go invisible through a stealth test, that demonstrates knowledge of game mechanics and skill just as much as using skill and tactics to dodge the enemies.

That or just make it a spy vault test because spy vaults are a lot more fair for a stealth test.

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On 2020-02-24 at 2:31 PM, (PS4)AyinDygra said:

I have one friend who's stuck on that test, and instead of playing Warframe, he's playing Spiderman (one of the games in his backlong), because it's fun and the test is annoying. He's barely playing any Warframe. This is not an isolated instance.

While many people say "git gud or get out"... that's extremely detrimental to DE's bottom line and player retention, IMO. The new player experience needs work, but this is like a brick wall saying "Stop playing this game." and it needs to be torn down or given a door. It doesn't test any sort of real Warframe skill, because for spy missions, we bring spy frames, with abilities that facilitate undetected movement and killing, so in the end, it's not even teaching anyone any useful skills to take forward into their gameplay.

 

And importantly—in addition to the fact that it tests skills that are useless in actual play—it’s Mastery Rank 9.

Nine. Not 26, not 45. Nine. It should not be anywhere near the roadblock the changes have made it.

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I remember taking my mr 9 and 19 test a month or so before gauss release, then I kept hearing people having trouble doing these tests and just thought they weren't being as careful as they could so I decided to try them again just to be able to tell them that they just need to be more careful.  It was a rather startling change to say the least, first enemy I get near to stealth kill and boom detected, o...k.... maybe I just didn't wait long enough the first time around, so I try and wait, kill first guy get to second kill him and boom spotted.  After about 15 or so more attempts to get past the third guy I realized that these tests were no longer the "just put on enemy radar and watch the arrows before you take your target down" type missions, these had become similar to the old Syphon Filter on PS type mission where you needed to memorize every enemy movement because any slight deviation would instantly fail you.  I'm just glad I finished those tests before the enemy became more "aware" and I feel sorry for those who have to put up with the lotus telling them they failed 20 times because the devs forgot that changing enemy awareness while no big deal for the majority of the game may have a slight impact on a couple of tests that unless passed (at least for mr 9) limit your ability to get better weapons and rivens and thus prevent you from being able to enjoy the game more.  So you have two choices as far as I can see (well maybe three) 1) you redesign all stealth based mastery rank maps to take into account the improved enemy detection. 2) you somehow return enemy awareness for those missions back to oblivious and keep the levels unchanged. 3) you get rid of the stealth tests completely.  It makes no real difference to me what you choose to do since I'm well past those tests but it would certainly mean a lot to those who are trying to do those tests.

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On 2020-03-07 at 4:40 AM, (PS4)T3-21 said:

I remember taking my mr 9 and 19 test a month or so before gauss release, then I kept hearing people having trouble doing these tests and just thought they weren't being as careful as they could so I decided to try them again just to be able to tell them that they just need to be more careful.  It was a rather startling change to say the least, first enemy I get near to stealth kill and boom detected, o...k.... maybe I just didn't wait long enough the first time around, so I try and wait, kill first guy get to second kill him and boom spotted.  After about 15 or so more attempts to get past the third guy I realized that these tests were no longer the "just put on enemy radar and watch the arrows before you take your target down" type missions, these had become similar to the old Syphon Filter on PS type mission where you needed to memorize every enemy movement because any slight deviation would instantly fail you.  I'm just glad I finished those tests before the enemy became more "aware" and I feel sorry for those who have to put up with the lotus telling them they failed 20 times because the devs forgot that changing enemy awareness while no big deal for the majority of the game may have a slight impact on a couple of tests that unless passed (at least for mr 9) limit your ability to get better weapons and rivens and thus prevent you from being able to enjoy the game more.  So you have two choices as far as I can see (well maybe three) 1) you redesign all stealth based mastery rank maps to take into account the improved enemy detection. 2) you somehow return enemy awareness for those missions back to oblivious and keep the levels unchanged. 3) you get rid of the stealth tests completely.  It makes no real difference to me what you choose to do since I'm well past those tests but it would certainly mean a lot to those who are trying to do those tests.

I hadn't reached MR19 before Gauss released. I ended up having to cheese it with Redeemer Prime, even that was difficult. I stayed right on the very first platform, sniping the enemies off one by one. Spent about 3 hours in practice mode working out a pattern to kill them in that i could semi-reliably not get detected. That was after farming for several hours trying to get redeemer prime parts (and eventually resorting to selling all the other prime spam i'd received in order to buy the parts from other players).

Enemies would somehow hear/spot me across the entire map (they were so far away that they were barely a couple of pixels wide on my screen) and that was it, attempt over.

Skiajati i couldn't get to work reliably, if i was late to an enemy and became visible for 0.01s boom, failed, or if i bumped into an enemy too hard trying to go fast.. boom.. failed.

Absolute nightmare.

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