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BloodKitten

it's my choice if to stab a lich or not.

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2 minutes ago, cmacq said:

Slowing it down for a couple of seconds. If that's a problem for you I think Sneaky has addressed it several times in this thread. You just refuse to listen. Bull headedness is strong with you that's for sure.

Yep, the moment someone worries and rages about litteral seconds, they arent looking for regular PuGing. PuGs should be smooth but not offer optimal efficiency.

I guess the people complaining about seconds here are the same people complaining about having a pally tank over a warrior in a WoW PuG while playing the rogue themselves.

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Just now, Zeclem said:

it takes quite a bit more than "a couple of seconds" to dismiss a lich, stop lying.

and his "adressing" does not make it correct when he is making incorrect claims as well all over the forums.

Oh it takes more than a couple of seconds? Maybe you're not as OP as you say you are? In any event when you start to call someone a liar it's time to dismiss you. Ignored.

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Just now, cmacq said:

Oh it takes more than a couple of seconds? Maybe you're not as OP as you say you are? In any event when you start to call someone a liar it's time to dismiss you. Ignored.

since when your gear affects how fast a lich regens health when downed? you realize you need to wait for that right? what a joke this entire conversation is. 

anyway hf being selfish in pubs slowing the game for everyone else because you are not geared/good enough to deal with a level 5 lich. 

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27 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

since when your gear affects how fast a lich regens health when downed? you realize you need to wait for that right? what a joke this entire conversation is. 

anyway hf being selfish in pubs slowing the game for everyone else because you are not geared/good enough to deal with a level 5 lich. 

But they do regen in literal seconds unless you happen to run with trolling Slowvas 24/7.

You are looking at a whooping 20 seconds. Oh my the horror!

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1 hour ago, Airwolfen said:

I always liked playing baruuk, Got a bad rep because of his restraint mechanic. But if you get past that he is quite fun to play. And his 4 heavy dropkicks after the melee rework (and crit buff) are deadly.

I love him, personally, just never see anyone else play him! Tanky as hell, sleep is nice and punching things to death is a blast. I don't bother with his 1 at all.

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7 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

But they do regen in literal seconds unless you happen to run with trolling Slowvas 24/7.

You are looking at a whooping 20 seconds. Oh my the horror!

its actually 30, since you need to down them three times. and when you consider that missions take a couple minutes, 30 seconds itself is not exactly a non noticable amount in a mission. this also ignores the time it takes to down it as well, but thats pretty minimal.

and if you would bother adding that it prevents other liches from spawning and since liches do not spawn back to back, it easily increases the length of next lich spawning by a lot longer.

also, if 30 seconds is absolutely nothing to you, why is it so much bad to level up a lich then if you can actually deal with them? a high level lich takes less than 30 extra seconds to kill compared to a low level one, and thats when you completely ignore the amount of time the 10 extra thralls save you which is two thirds the amount that you can get from a mission. and if you are going to respond with S#&$ like "It Is RnG sO ItS NoT EfFiCiEnt", dont. 

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4 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

its actually 30, since you need to down them three times. and when you consider that missions take a couple minutes, 30 seconds itself is not exactly a non noticable amount in a mission. this also ignores the time it takes to down it as well, but thats pretty minimal.

and if you would bother adding that it prevents other liches from spawning and since liches do not spawn back to back, it easily increases the length of next lich spawning by a lot longer.

also, if 30 seconds is absolutely nothing to you, why is it so much bad to level up a lich then if you can actually deal with them? a high level lich takes less than 30 extra seconds to kill compared to a low level one, and thats when you completely ignore the amount of time the 10 extra thralls save you which is two thirds the amount that you can get from a mission. and if you are going to respond with S#&$ like "It Is RnG sO ItS NoT EfFiCiEnt", dont. 

There is no reg in the third state. If you havent interacted with them in state 1 or 2 it goes away when it gets downed the third time. And even if there was a third reg state we'd look at 30 seconds, which isnt 30 seconds longer than anything else. It is just 30 seconds in comparison to the time it takes to stab, fail/succeed, stab, fail/succeed, stab, fail/succeed+finish. It also doesnt make the actual damage output towards the lich go any slower either. So you cant say "this also ignores the time it takes to down it as well" since that applies the exact same wether you stab or just down it. So it all comes down to the compared length between wating for reg time or dealing up to 3 stabs.

You are just making up extra mechanics as you go. It increases the wait by the difference in time between stabbing or waiting for regging. It isnt even prolonged by the full 30 seconds, just by the difference in time between the two methods.

Because it is pointless, there is no extra reward to it. It is also tedious because you need to swap mods in between missions. Absolutely zero point to it unless you wanna push efficiency over enjoyment/consistancy.

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On 2020-01-16 at 9:15 AM, XRosenkreuz said:

Except you're probably going to end up dealing with a level 5 Lich anyway? Plus which, you're depriving yourself of the chance of guessing a mod, the extra murmurs you get for attempting your Lich, and depriving everyone of the Kuva they drop at 1-4.

I mean sure, it's your choice... but it's a pretty bad one given your reasoning.

Its always always always the most optimum choice to stab the lich. Even if you dont even have all the requiem mods you still get murmur progress. 

And I dont understand the "I gotta discover all 3 murmurs before I even try" mentality". Even then there are several possible combinations and it will likely take a few tries to figure it out. 

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5 hours ago, cmacq said:

and what is "good enough"? Your definition or theirs? Because your implication is they need to be able to to handle a level 5 lich which is not required at all. That's why DE instituted the down it 3 times thing, so people have a choice. If it's not your choice then maybe you're not "good enough" for pub groups.

My point still stands it's public matchmaking you can't whine about what someone does and expect them to care because..... They don't. It's not like you queue up and select a role class and it states "I am here to kill my lich " it's a even then public  mission with people you don't care about and they don't care about you. Nobody is going to be considerate all the time it's the real world not some psuedo place where "I expect everyone to be courteous  and respectfull towards how I want the game to be played and how I feel because I'm nice (even though demanding someone to play  a certain or telling someone how to play a certain way because it benefits you is the opposite of nice)"

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The only thing I see in the comments is "NO U CAN'T TELL ME WAT TO DO MEH". And "PPL SHOULD PLAY THIS WEY CUZ ITZ OPTIMAL N I WANT MY STUFF DUN MEH"  no productive conversation is going on here and it's simply arguments going on without Warrant  of a constructive conversation. Might wanna change that for the letter locks yer thread 

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5 hours ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

Might wanna change that for the letter locks yer thread 

Now that you mentioned it, I'm hoping it gets locked.  

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31 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

Now that you mentioned it, I'm hoping it gets locked.  

It's not tbh nothing is just flat out rude in this thread 

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6 hours ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

Its always always always the most optimum choice to stab the lich. Even if you dont even have all the requiem mods you still get murmur progress. 

And I dont understand the "I gotta discover all 3 murmurs before I even try" mentality". Even then there are several possible combinations and it will likely take a few tries to figure it out. 

This isn't Optimalilty  simulator bro. People can play however they want to. If you're trying to be the most optimal and effective you'd use recruit chat or friends /clan so you're all on the same page and can get it done as fast and efficient as possible. Saying that " everyone has to play the optimal way" holds no Warrant in a game that holds no true dictation or punishment for playing how you want esp in randos 

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9 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Yep, the moment someone worries and rages about litteral seconds, they arent looking for regular PuGing. PuGs should be smooth but not offer optimal efficiency.

I guess the people complaining about seconds here are the same people complaining about having a pally tank over a warrior in a WoW PuG while playing the rogue themselves.

More like it’s the same people upset that you are hindering their goal of 100 Forma from Plague Star because you aren’t killing the last Hemocyte Lephy in 3 seconds.

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That's kinda my approach too- if possible I'll even wait until I've uncovered two Requiems before attempting to stab- one time when I did this I learned by pure chance that I had equipped the correct third one too and was able to defeat my Lich at level 1!

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Well the thing is an extermination mission takes usually around 3 minutes. Liches extremely rarely happen in the first minute. Usually they spawn around 60%+ of mission done. They always spawn behind you around 300+ meters, but it can be a lot more for others. They almost never spawn after finishing the mission. 

When OP lich spawns, whole team usually except for OP goes backwards and waits for him. During that time OP goes forward to finish the mission and the rest waits. Usually it takes around 10-30 seconds (the more polite people are with waiting the worse) before figuring out OP has no intention to stab the lich. Than that 20 seconds of downing him three times. At that point the mission is finished, OP waits on extraction. Thats the usuall way this goes. Or the other, people learn about OP tactic and not wanting to eat bullshyt just down the lich three times as fast as they can preventing slower players to actually stab their liches. 

What i would like to see instead, is OP downing the lich three times with the team whether he will or not stab it, so i don't wait and do that for him, so it goes faster for others and the small window where there is a high chance for a lich to spawn for others is not wasted. 

Or maybe de just needs to make same spawn mechanics with liches as with stalker. Complete lockdown, mission halt. You deal with your assassin. It would prevent some bullshyt things as well (in defenses and other missions with failure conditions). 

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1) Because trying and failing is faster

  • For the Mission
  • For finding the combo

2) Because you can't kill a lich in 2 missions doing it your way

  • I got 1st & 2nd Combo first new lich after a previous one
  • I got 3rd Combo the next mission

3) Because you don't get Kuva that way

  • Sometimes I do liches partly for the Kuva, and regardless it's always nice to build some up when i'm not actively seeking it.

4) Because it's generally accepted that you should try

  • Before the 3x down rule you'd completely lock out other players
    • The 3x down rule was introduced SOLELY to keep players from 'trolling' others by not trying their combo (maybe my opinion only, but unlikely)

I mean...

DE fully intended for people to attempt combo's on liches even if it's likely to fail.  They introduced KUVA for failed attempts later on because people were not doing what they wanted.  They also introduced the 3x rule as a hard limit to prevent people from 'ruining groups'.  You can play warframe however you want, but on this topic you're practically arguing that for sortie defense missions you need a Trin, Vaub, Frost, Limbo because "We need to absolutely defend the target, then kill enemies".  Sure, you can go ahead and do it that way, but the majority of people playing won't want anything to do with it.

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1 hour ago, zehne said:

Because trying and failing is faster

For the mission, perhaps, but for progress in lich hunts overall it can severely stunt your efforts

1 hour ago, zehne said:

Because you can't kill a lich in 2 missions doing it your way

Congrats, you got lucky. 1 in 56 chance, if my math is correct. Odds are that won't happen again, and it definitely doesn't happen consistently enough to call it a solid argument point

1 hour ago, zehne said:

Because you don't get Kuva that way

If you want kuva, there are better ways to get it. I don't do liches for kuva, I don't know anyone who does

1 hour ago, zehne said:

Because it's generally accepted that you should try

This has always been a point of debate since the inception of liches. Personally, I'm firmly in the camp of "let lich spawn thrall, then stab if testing a mod. If not, send them away or ignore them" because that method is

A) consistently faster, as while you can get lucky with a blind stab, if you don't stab them then your lich is more likely to show up next mission and spawn more thrall, effectively doubling the mission's worth of thrall, and

B) easier. And while most of us can get through multiple missions with level 100 enemies and a level 5 lich (that have in the past taken me about 10 minutes to bring down because they're so spongy) it's quicker to take out the lower level enemies. Also means you can bring a greater variety of stuff, have more fun

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22 hours ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

This isn't Optimalilty  simulator bro. People can play however they want to. If you're trying to be the most optimal and effective you'd use recruit chat or friends /clan so you're all on the same page and can get it done as fast and efficient as possible. Saying that " everyone has to play the optimal way" holds no Warrant in a game that holds no true dictation or punishment for playing how you want esp in randos 

If you re read my comment you'll see that I never said anyone "has to" or even "should", bro. I've also had this happen plenty of times from recruiting chat as well.

I just think its dumb not to and I find it annoying because when you refuse to do it you're saying "sorry squad. I'm not gonna let you have that little extra kuva" or as I understand it, the extra murmur progress and the only possible "reason" for that is "waaaah I dont wanna get killed by the kuva lich even though I have 30 revives" 

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10 minutes ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

If you re read my comment you'll see that I never said anyone "has to" or even "should", bro. I've also had this happen plenty of times from recruiting chat as well.

I just think its dumb not to and I find it annoying because when you refuse to do it you're saying "sorry squad. I'm not gonna let you have that little extra kuva" or as I understand it, the extra murmur progress and the only possible "reason" for that is "waaaah I dont wanna get killed by the kuva lich even though I have 30 revives" 

Or i just don't like nor want to Stab my lich. Also if you want to have a better say or control in those variables friends clans and recruit chat are there again 

Why do I have to be inclined to care about getting a small bit of kuva? Or why do I have to die by something I clearly beat regardless of my revives. If I don't want to I don't have to. Don't like it you can leave the mission and or use the mentioned solutions above to find a squad that will play to your liking. If this was a pre-made group were talking about yes I'd agree with you. But it's public random matchmaking where you can't shouldn't and DON'T control what a random does or should really care that much because they don't care aboutnyoy

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29 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

Or i just don't like nor want to Stab my lich.

Why? Why don't you want to help your team? Play co-op or play solo.

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7 minutes ago, (XB1)Erudite Prime said:

Why? Why don't you want to help your team? Play co-op or play solo.

I play on whatever setting I'd load up the game on. If I don't feel like stabbing my lich life goes on we complete the missions and boom leave queue and nothing happens. If you're that much in need of your lich spawning make a pre-made group to weed out as much variables like a random player 

I'm not hindering my team as well

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1 hour ago, (XB1)Erudite Prime said:

Yes you are. Play co-op or play solo. 

Not at all me not stabbing or stabbing my lich does not stop anyone from completing the mission. If you don't want to play you could always leave the match and go find a pre-made group as mentioned if you expect a random to abide by your rules and whim any game it's funny

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18 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

Not at all me not stabbing or stabbing my lich does not stop anyone from completing the mission. If you don't want to play you could always leave the match and go find a pre-made group as mentioned if you expect a random to abide by your rules and whim any game it's funny

It has nothing to do with "completing the mission" because the basic mission objective isn't the point of Lich missions - it's the Liches. It's not about "abiding by my rules" it's literally the main point of the mode. 

 

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