it's my choice if to stab a lich or not.

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

17 minutes ago, (XB1)Erudite Prime said:

It has nothing to do with "completing the mission" because the basic mission objective isn't the point of Lich missions - it's the Liches. It's not about "abiding by my rules" it's literally the main point of the mode. 

 

There are no "set rules" you don't fail upon not killing your lich you don't stop the mission time the game and life still goes on. You're really upset you can't tell someone what or how to play in a public lobby?

[zehne]

This is absolutely ridiculous.

OP posts that many people complain about/to them for not attempting liches.  People clearly express the reasons why they too would complain about OP in missions.  Then you say "but I like my way".

"But I like my way" isn't going to sway public opinion.

6 hours ago, (XB1)Lucas Jameson said:

Congrats, you got lucky. 1 in 56 chance, if my math is correct. Odds are that won't happen again, and it definitely doesn't happen consistently enough to call it a solid argument point

The odds of winning the lotto are ALOT lower.  People still play the lotto SOLELY for the chance of winning, the idea of getting lucky.  It doesn't matter if you don't think the odds are worth it (frankly I don't either), but that does not invalidate the fact that MANY people DO.  For that reason, it is a completely valid reason as to why people prefer to take a 'risk'.

6 hours ago, (XB1)Lucas Jameson said:

If you want kuva, there are better ways to get it. I don't do liches for kuva, I don't know anyone who does

And you completely ignored the second part where I said it was a nice benefit, even if small.  You pretend that if something isn't THE BEST METHOD for a single farm/item it is completely ignored.  The truth is there are many people who will do 'sub-par' farms, especially if they want both X & Y and by doing Z in X they can get Y.  Let's pretend that it does take longer to farm liches when 'blindly stabbing' them.  How much time kuva farming is saved by doing so though?  Does it even matter?  People will pass a single car on the highway because 'it's going slow' because they perceive a benefit to passing, even if they are just going to change lanes, slow down and take the next exit 5 seconds later.

It doesn't matter if it saves time or not.  People see real benefit (not just perceived) from stabbing liches, so people will value stabbing liches. 

6 hours ago, (XB1)Lucas Jameson said:

This has always been a point of debate since the inception of liches.

Yes, and?  It has been a point of debate, and many people when told that other party members liches could not spawn would promptly suicide on the lich even though there was no kuva reward.

Also, it was a much more contentious issue when liches first came out.  A source of great frustration.  So much so that DE acted 'quickly' to put a stop to it by implementing the 3x rule AND incentivizing people to attempt.

How many "Come on DE, it's time to change this" threads appear? When is the HEMA research cost going to change? NOPE?  Yet when DE actually does change something you come on and say "But it was fine, obviously the way I've been doing things wasn't/isn't a problem for the rest of the community".  You're closing your eyes and covering your ears.  You have to been willfully ignorant to believe that others will just say "yeah, you're right, your word is better than what I believe."

7 hours ago, (XB1)Lucas Jameson said:

B) easier. And while most of us can get through multiple missions with level 100 enemies and a level 5 lich (that have in the past taken me about 10 minutes to bring down because they're so spongy) it's quicker to take out the lower level enemies. Also means you can bring a greater variety of stuff, have more fun

As for "easier" you can form a party, in recruiting chat it looks like:

"H/LF murmur"

• As far as I can tell to, if someone hosts a mission planet that your lich isn't on, your lich can't spawn
  • Meaning that if you do it right you CAN farm 100% of your murmurs without ever spawning your lich AND subsequently NEVER needing to 'risk it'
    • Meaning you get what you wanted and everyone like myself also get what we want.

As for the "have more fun", in your opinion.  You don't have to agree with "playing the lotto is fun" but denying that some people like it IS insanity.

I accept the fact that you like to do it your own way but that's not going to change the fact that me and many many others like me prefer doing it another way.   Since the two different methods are mutually exclusive everyone is put at odds with each other. 

More to the point: If you fail your lich, no-one (outside yourself) will 'rage'.  Failing to attempt your lich obviously (proof by existence of this thread) will cause 'rage'.  This fact alone makes 'stabbing your lich' the ethical choice by some morality models, failing to do so being the exact opposite.

 

[(XBOX)SupremeMorph]

5 hours ago, zehne said:

-snip-

Perhaps I misunderstood. I believed you were arguing that everyone should stab their lich, whether they like to or not. If that is not the case, I sincerely apologise. I believe everyone should be allowed to play how they want to play. If you like randomly stabbing your lich for the free chiropractic therapy, hey, more power to you. You've certainly made some good points

[(XBOX)Erudite Prime]

7 hours ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

There are no "set rules" you don't fail upon not killing your lich you don't stop the mission time the game and life still goes on. You're really upset you can't tell someone what or how to play in a public lobby?

There are no set rules, but there are generally preferred behaviors such as "helping your team" and "not tampering with everyone's progress."

Edited January 22, 2020 by (XB1)Erudite Prime

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Erudite Prime said:

There are no set rules, but there are generally preferred behaviors such as "helping your team" and "not tampering with everyone's progress."

And since when am I required to follow a set of player made rules. I can still complete the mission without them And if you're that bothered about someone you don't know not following your rules play with you're friends 

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

If'n'when I choose to create a Lich, after they make a ton of the described changes from the most recent Dev Stream, I'll be going solo, or with a friend(s).

I will never stab a lich before knowing all 3 runes, as long as that means insta-death for me, even after I beat the stupid thing to a pulp.

I will not engage with the Lich system while the "insta-death" on failure system remains in place. (this is something they said they're removing.)

I will always endeavor to keep my Lich's level as low as possible, so the grind isn't made into a more of a slog than it already seems to be, by making the enemies even harder in future murmur hunts, whereby I couldn't just bring weapons to level as I'm accomplishing other tasks, rather than being fully geared up and ready for a mini wolf of saturn six. Yeah, don't need that trouble. At least until they make a reason for higher level liches being beneficial to a player. (like the converted lich helper being stronger, or having a function that is influenced by their level, that I want to manipulate to my benefit.)

You can harp all you like about how efficient your method is, or how deaths don't mean anything, but it won't change how I play. Good for you, you'll never have to play with me, and I never have to deal with your unreasonable expectations of others' choices.

 

 

[Ham_Grenabe]

That's how I do it now, minus the solo part. Keep the lich low level, gradually gather the murmurs, then start trying to sort the order out. If people are mad they can't have 150 Kuva or that they have to sit around to kill it three times, welp...life sucks, get a helmet. 

Besides, if I keep my lich low level, they don't have to sit around to kill it three times. They can go do other stuff for 20 seconds while I make it take a knee.

(In fairness, my current lich is still stuck on Phobos, because I refuse to engage with him. He says it bruises his feelings. I'm waiting for the Ditch Your Litch^TM option. I may start making Liches just to dismiss them once a week, for the sheer satisfaction of making it go away). 

Edited January 22, 2020 by Ham_Grenabe

[SneakyErvin]

17 hours ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

If you re read my comment you'll see that I never said anyone "has to" or even "should", bro. I've also had this happen plenty of times from recruiting chat as well.

I just think its dumb not to and I find it annoying because when you refuse to do it you're saying "sorry squad. I'm not gonna let you have that little extra kuva" or as I understand it, the extra murmur progress and the only possible "reason" for that is "waaaah I dont wanna get killed by the kuva lich even though I have 30 revives" 

What extra possible murmur progress? That is the stabber that gets it. Be happy if you run with a guy that doesnt want to stab his lich, because he will improve your murmur progress quite regularly since his Lich will likely spawn back-to-back in missions and spawn thralls. I'd rather take a few extra thralls over some silly low amounts of kuva from someones lich.

Even when you stab your lich it is fully RNG based if you actually gain much on it or not because the chance he will spawn in the next few missions is very low compared to you just driving him off. Which in return results in fewer thrall spawn. In a pre-made chances are you are better off never stabbing since the whole group shares thralls but not the lich stab bonus. So if no one stabs it means you'll always have extra thralls since it is near impossible to not have 1 or more liches spawn every mission. And since the mission itself offers no murmur progress you way aswell farm as many thralls as possible aslong as they spawn frequently in the mission you are in. Not stabbing your lich improves the chance for that to happen and you only need 10 bonus thralls for it to break even for the whole group. Chances are high that you'll see plenty more than 10 in the amount of runs it would otherwise take a lich to decide to respawn incase you stab him.

[SocialFox]

Ugh, for the last time, if you don't like how other people play the game, stop playing with them.

You'd think the solution was obvious to everyone alive.

Other player's existence, should be inconsequential to you, if you didn't set clear expectations, at the beginning of the mission, then all bets are off.

Seriously, stop demanding that PUGs adhere to some arbitraty notion of "Good" gameplay choices and move on with your life.
 

Edited January 24, 2020 by SocialFox