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Railjack weapon overheat should be reversed


motorfirebox
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Instead of only being able to fire until your guns overheat, you should be able to fire continuously—but you get bonus damage/accuracy/ROF when your guns are under the heat limit.

Furthermore, engineering should be able to actively reduce heat somehow. Maybe overheat creates jams in the coolant system that can be repaired; repairing halves heat accumulation for 15 seconds.

Make shooting rewarding, rather than punishing. Getting bonuses is always more fun than getting rid of penalities, even if the overall values are the same.

 

Edit: in terms of implementation, I kind of pictured it working the same way that the pet changes were implemented. There'd be a new module to research and install ("fire control director" or something), which would enable the new system.

Edited by motorfirebox
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7 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

I cant think of any game with an oveheat mechanic that does this. Its always "get to the limit? Wait for it to cool down before shooting again."

No one else doing something isn't really an argument for or against a new idea. No one else in the world runs on entirely green energy, does that mean we shouldn't either? No other country in the world recycles 100% of their consumer goods, does that mean it's a bad idea?

By the way what he's suggesting is an exhaustion mechanic, used by many other games, typically when involving some sort of fast movement (Ie sprinting -> jogging when stamina is out until allowing stamina to regen). Also beam weapons that lose efficacy the longer you shoot them, doesnt FF7 have a rollercoaster minigame with a laser that loses power the longer you fire it? I'm sure there's plenty of examples of weapons that degrade in power the longer you fire them if you search around.

14 minutes ago, motorfirebox said:

Make shooting rewarding, rather than punishing. Getting bonuses is always more fun than getting rid of penalities, even if the overall values are the same.

I like your idea, especially the general reasoning behind it. Currently we do spend a lot of time waiting when manning RJ turrets. On some weapons it feels like the downtime is actually more than the uptime. I think your idea has merit but I'm not sure DE will remove their current system. Also probably needs to be put in feedback.

Edited by Skaleek
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24 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

I cant think of any game with an oveheat mechanic that does this. Its always "get to the limit? Wait for it to cool down before shooting again."

Halo: Reach does this, actually. Although to be fair, it does both systems. Most overheat weapons work the way you described, but the Plasma Repeater will slow down RoF as it overheats, but can still technically be used. Interestingly, the Plasma Rifle will actually reward constant fire with higher fire rate, leading players on a risk/reward curve, as firing for longer does increase your DPS but leaves you at risk of vulnerability from the cooldown.

 

I feel like a mix could be good - some weapons work on a 'soft' cooldown system, whereas others work on the existing one. Apoc, being a beginner weapon, I could see run this quite well, making the consequences for messing up your shots and ammo economy less punishing for those still learning the ropes and who don't have targeting lead indicators yet, before players unlock more meaty weapons. Harder-hitting weapons especially - perhaps it could be a weapon manufacturer perk for some weapons to have a different overheat than they usually do. For example, some Zetki weapons, instead of having faster overheat, experience the current cooldown instead of a soft one if they have that, whereas some Lavan armaments have the opposite, granting some hard-cooldown weapons a soft cooldown. That might make some houses more or less desirable for certain weapons.

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56 minutes ago, Skaleek said:

No one else doing something isn't really an argument for or against a new idea. No one else in the world runs on entirely green energy, does that mean we shouldn't either? No other country in the world recycles 100% of their consumer goods, does that mean it's a bad idea?

Never said I was against it. Just commenting I cant think of any game that does this.

If you want my opinion, then I'm neutral on it.

22 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Halo: Reach does this, actually. Although to be fair, it does both systems. Most overheat weapons work the way you described, but the Plasma Repeater will slow down RoF as it overheats, but can still technically be used. Interestingly, the Plasma Rifle will actually reward constant fire with higher fire rate, leading players on a risk/reward curve, as firing for longer does increase your DPS but leaves you at risk of vulnerability from the cooldown.

Yeah, never played Halo: Reach.

Vulnerability from the cooldown?

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I think you should be able to fire as long as you want to, but you have a stacking chance of destroying your guns until they can be fixed at the Dry Dock. Melt the barrel, blow out the coolant system, start a fire on the Railjack...

Fun stuff!

Edited by Ham_Grenabe
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3 minutes ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

I think you should be able to fire as long as you want to, but you have a stacking chance of destroying your guns until they can be fixed at the Dry Dock. Melt the barrel, blow out the coolant system, start a fire on the Railjack...

Fun stuff!

Yeah, but then that means the mission would be failed until you can repair them.

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55 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

If you can't shoot, and the enemy can, then you're in a pretty bad spot, no?

How is that any different from what we have now?

Unless you mean that when you stop shooting your cooldown is longer if you overheat and keep firing for a while longer?

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23 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

How is that any different from what we have now?

Unless you mean that when you stop shooting your cooldown is longer if you overheat and keep firing for a while longer?

I was talking about the Plasma Rifle, which works like the railjack system does now - you can't shoot for a period of time after overheating, similar to a reload.

The Plasma REPEATER which is a different weapon, works as suggested by OP - the fire rate slows down as heat accumulates, but it can still be fired, just at a dramatically reduced RoF.

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2 hours ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

I think you should be able to fire as long as you want to, but you have a stacking chance of destroying your guns until they can be fixed at the Dry Dock. Melt the barrel, blow out the coolant system, start a fire on the Railjack...

Fun stuff!

I could see the gun being out of commission until repaired mid-flight, but making you wait to get back to dry dock is too punishing.

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Just now, motorfirebox said:

I could see the gun being out of commission until repaired mid-flight, but making you wait to get back to dry dock is too punishing.

Well, I was being a bit sarcastic, but something like causing a fire and needing an Engineer to spray it with magic foam would be a fair consequence for taking the risk of damaging the weapon. 

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4 hours ago, (XB1)R3d P01nt said:

DE does not look at the GD area of the forums.  If you want DE to see your suggestions you'll have to put them in Feedback.

I mean, I guess feedback might be higher visibility to DE for some things, but this statement is verifiable false.

i.e. my topic about crewships and how we dealt with them was linked in patch notes.  And while it did have feedback it was most definitely a discussion about how/why we did things certain ways to kill crewships at the time.

Back on topic:

Overheating isn't fun.  There are legitimate reasons why overheating exists though:

  1. For example it adds some realism since in the real world things can/will overheat.
  2. Adds a layer of complexity.  Now you don't just hold the trigger down, or you balance fire rate with accuracy
  3. It's simple to implement.
    • Count up every shot
    • After delay with no shooting count down
    • If X is reached, add additional delay and disable shooting
    • At 0, enable shooting.

That said, I much prefer thermal throttling to overheating.  Degraded performance to prevent exceeding limits.  Additionally, I don't understand why the guns arn't constantly cooling down.  In the above overheating algorithm the guns start cooling down AFTER a delay from shooting.  Realistically the guns would be constantly cooling down.

In fact, to make the overheating algorithm into a thermal throttling one you would essentially do the same thing with one to two minor changes.

  1. Count up every shot
  2. Count down periodically by the cooling rate (safe to make this a constant, or maybe a variable that can be modded for with avionics)
  3. If (current Count + Shot Heat > Max heat) Disable firing
  4. If (current Count + Shot Heat <= Max heat) Enable firing

Suddenly you can fire as fast as the guns can fire, but you won't overheat because the rate will be throttled when you get really hot.  This would allow for more dynamic gameplay and is essentially the same effort to implement as far as algorithms go.

Edited by zehne
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17 minutes ago, zehne said:

That said, I much prefer thermal throttling to overheating.  Degraded performance to prevent exceeding limits.  Additionally, I don't understand why the guns arn't constantly cooling down.  In the above overheating algorithm the guns start cooling down AFTER a delay from shooting.  Realistically the guns would be constantly cooling down.

Yes, the fact that if you hit the heat limit, you have to wait through a full cooldown is the worst part of the current system. If just that were removed, I don't think there'd be nearly as much complaint about the thermal limiting.

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