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[DE]Megan

Empyrean: Ivara Prime 27.0.11 - 27.0.11.3

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On 2020-01-16 at 1:36 PM, TVictorian said:

For those of us who have not built our own railjack (and thus can't access the railjack menu for wreckage/avionics/etc.) but play RJ missions with friends/clanmates/pubs, being over the wreckage limit permanently prevents us from playing RJ missions until we complete the quest. DE please let us scrap unwanted wreckage from the escape menu or foundry, like how Intrinsics work.

Jesus....

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Suggestion for next update:  May we get a small QoL thing? Flashlight toggle / keybind
Edit: And destroying those latch grenades with a ground slam again would be nice. Currently I found no way anymore to get them off my hide.
Edit2: And... toggle for moving waypoints. It is increasingly annoying in the PoE if a position gets marked, you dash over there, slam down from your archwing only to find out the marker decided to adjust its position....your princess is in another castle -.-'
Edit3: Can't wait for old archwing flight back. I'll keep the instant stop though. New flight is good for space, but not for free flight

Edited by Silescere

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Why aren't the repairing costs being changed? The reactor changes are good but the costs of everything in railjack are completely insane. 

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I don't know if this issue has been reported, but last night I encountered a bug with Shedu and Archwing in PoE.

If I have Shedu equipped and activated my Archwing, everything works as planned. But if I'm in my Archwing and I try to swap between my Shedu and my secondary (so if in swapping from Shedu to Brakk, or from Brakk to Shedu), I equip Shedu and a bug kicks in -- I can't shoot, I can't swap weapons and I can't teleport.

If I exit the Archwing and re-enter it that fixes the bug, but thought it should still be reported if it wasn't already.

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Staying inside an enemy crew ship at the mission end still breaks all controls

VdueNXY.png

Edited by Bouldershoulder

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Let's start with a report back, objectively.  I'd like to start with positive, because at this point it's actually looking like there's something beyond a raging dumpster fire.

 

It's nice that you're looking to fix the grind for the Shedu, Liches, Kuva weapons, and most importantly you're actually learning what an S curve is and how using it instead of an exponential equation to describe the armor would lead to a less broken game.  Nice!

Railjack still needs a stupid amount of work, but it seems like the issue is progression and economy.  I've gone back, and tried it now with all of the unlocked clan research.  You can have a very good ship before ever entering Saturn if you can live with the Sigma upgrades only.  I'd say this is a good thing because it shows some potential for future content and new players not being absolutely curb stomped forever.

Unfortunately that's it.  

 

So on to the problems and what still hasn't been addressed.

  1. You say on your developer stream that S curves are finally going to be a thing for armor.  Five years late, but fine.  You then suggest enemies are getting a damage buff to make it more challenging.  No.  Bad DE.  Enemies one shot you all the time if you aren't a tank, are unable to cast a defensive power, or one of the stupidly long animations is going.  I main Zephyr and play Limbo often.  Other than being less used frames, their common shared quality is that their animations invite one shot kills and their stats make them easily open to them.  You don't make the enemies harder by damage buffs, how about you make them smarter?  Right now their AI might hide in cover if the moon is in correct phase with the sun, but otherwise it's run to effective range of weapon and shoot.  Maybe improve that with some squad tactics (maybe designated healers like the ancients, who are screened by other units).
  2. Modular archwings...How about the basic ones work before you suggest it's time to make everything mix and match?  The reason Amesha is king is invincibility.  The way you fix that is actually pretty simple.  Crewships actually cannot lock onto Archwings.  Yes, despite what your notes say it's still very common to be murdered in a stream of their homing projectiles.  Dumb fire can still kill, but a 20-30% decrease in projectile speed would allow for active dodging.  Fighter damage decreases by 30%.  The goal here is that you can get hit without instantly dying, and you'll get time to react before a wipe.  Finally, archwing influencing avionics aren't within a range of the ship.  This one is simple, follow the same rules as your intrinsics.  As there's no longer a double dip on the Railjack, this isn't really a big ask.
  3. The economy still sucks. I'm starting anew with Railjack, and trying to figure out what the progression is.  MK I and MK II are useless upgrades.  I can get MK III sigma equipment before leaving Earth, heck I can have one of nearly everything (yeah, the slot limits is pretty backwards when there's also a wreckage limit) without passing the first four missions.  This kind of means the progression here is garbage and a lot of drops are useless.  I wrote a small book on how to in one of the last updates, but it doesn't seem like you're willing to do anything but tweak numbers.  In that spirit, halve the requirements for trachons (yeah, still fuzzy on the spelling) and remove avionics capacity from the reactors (linking it to grid upgrade; such 0 = no upgrades, 3- Zekti, etc...)  Balance the reactors with flux vs. weapon charge rate.  Eject cooling heat accretion (charge to overheat), and add is charge capacity.  It's the same net effect to limit trigger happiness, but you balance battle avionics versus weapons such that there is no obvious "best" reactor.  
  4. Just stop with the new frame ideas.  Your new frame is what the Vauban rework should have been.  Do I think it will replace Vauban, no.  Do I believe that it'll get shelved and forgotten because the powers as described don't offer a lot of survivability, absolutely.  Tanks have pizzas, transmutation mods, and an operator form to heal/supply/energize them.  Your new concept is looking to do the later, without the ability to take a shot.  I know this is early days but it's hard to hear you bang the drum of fixing armor, retract it by suggesting an enemy damage buff, and then introduce our next frame without remembering both previous statements.  I'd suggest you figure out a better way than nullifiers and sponge enemies to extend play, because the current game requires DPS to play.  CC died a long time ago, when those nullifiers made them incapable of control and their stats (lowered to compensate for that control) made them incapable of taking a hit in a horde shooter.

 

I'd like to say more, but 15 pages of responses in something which should have been a minor change and fixes kind of speaks for itself.  Namely, it highlights that this is still a dumpster fire of an update which definitely falls short of what we were sold.  I look forward to the inevitable comments that it's free to play so I should shut up, but even those seem to be very infrequent as of late.

I hope you take this in-stride, and fix all of the busted systems.  If you don't...I don't think you'll be able to pull a No Man's Sky.  Between the free to play monetization, prime access, and tennogen it's very hard to defend a poor release like this as a miss-step.  Especially after PoE and Fortuna making little defense by means of this not being a track record of huge launches which have been  less than impressive for months after release.  I don't hope for Railjack to be good any more, I just hope that hubris doesn't sink the rest of this game.

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1 hour ago, master_of_destiny said:

You don't make the enemies harder by damage buffs, how about you make them smarter?

Exactly warframe has the dumbest AI. For enemies and spectres alike. There is no player skill involved. 

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Thanks for adressing the issue of the absurd grined needed for the "Tenebrous Ephemera" (as it was kind of ruining public matchmaking runs), but please dont remove things like this without adding another way to obtain it immediatly. 

I'm all for changing the method of aquisition (As I presonally wish 'Ephemeras' were obtained how they were intentionally ment to be . . . via skill or challenges (and DE seem to think luck/RNG is a skill 😟), but flat out removing it untill a later date (Soon™) is basically a big "F*** you" to the hundereds of hours people have farmed without getting it to drop yet.

If you had still not yet decided on a better method obtain this ephemera, at least let it remain in the caches and just inform players that it's method of aquisition will be changed Soon™, thus allowing the highly dedicated players to still push for painful grind, while letting less obsessive players know that a more adaquate method to obatin it will be along Soon™.

 

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Railjack as is will always fail without a proper tutorial or introduction. On top of the ridiculous wait time and resource cost, the fact there's no tutorial or an actual introduction is an amateur mistake. Right now I know absolutely nothing about the game mode. After building my railjack I am just tossed into this new content just to fail missions repeatedly at no fault of my own. The game mode is just not explained. There's no reason as to why the community waited this long and to have to go through all of that ridiculous farming, to not so much as get, at bare minimum, a quick tutorial telling the player "this is what you need to do this or that" "this is how get it". I mean, there's a free flight mission where you just fly around -- why isn't the tutorial or introduction there?? You do absolutely nothing in that mission just fly around. This is truly a sad thing. You add in a game mode more complex than the orb mother or teralyst or sanctuary onslaught, and don't bother to have  tutorial. And then there's cephalon cy -- I feel like cephalon cy is the warframe equivalent of R2-D2. He states the ship is on fire, we know the ship is on fire. Doesn't tell us what we need to do until the mission fails. Cool. Next run -- I try to use the new tool after the hulls been breached the millionth time and it won't let me cuz some resource is missing. Cool. Where do I get the  resource? What do I need to do to pass the mission period because the big enemy ship takes no damage. Why aren't there any objective markers to begin with? My point is, outside of just simple stuff (to others who are obviously blindly in love with DE), there is a lot of the most basic necessities missing to make any game successful and not feel like a waste of time. 

 

Now, I don't know about anyone else but I've played warframe for a really long time. With that being said, I absolutely do not mind going through a lengthy tutorial on everything railjack IN-GAME! Warframe is notorious for having absolutely nothing in-game explained, thus the reason why they depend on their community so much. No game developer should have to depend on the veterans of their community purely so they don't have to add in tutorials. I've said this for years on top of many other things I've said for years. I understand that they're the ones developing the game, (unlike a whole lot of the community), but at.the.same.time -- this is just a core necessity for the game mode -- heck the game as a whole -- to be successful.

Think of it this way -- and for god's sake no one take this seriously, it's an example -- You put in a job application to a place you want to work at. You get hired. Your new wardens aren't just going to throw you in the "field" and not teach you literally everything you need to know. It doesn't get anymore complicated than that. You are taught first. Railjack right now is just orientation. And right now its looking like a few GBs of waisted space on my 1080 HD.

 

[EDIT: 1/22/2020 - Has anyone else noticed that you can't call down your railjack and enter it while in the open worlds (plains of eidolon/ orb vallis)? That was the main teaser for railjack and it's now a feature completely missing.... great update, really worthe that AAA title now lol]

Edited by RedToothKaki
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I had one MKIII Weapon 98% repaired before the patch. Now i cant find it anymore but the resources are gone. The 13k Titanium hurts. 😕

Edited by 0day1

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@[DE]Rebecca As the time goes by there are still more work to do in bugfixing.

Take this one for example:

unknown.png

The Graphics glitches been for a while and this is one of many. Not game breaking but still need a fix.

Also there are still game network state sync issues, not sure why there are no state CRC32 checksums (or they are broken) between remote host and client. For example, this one is making Railjack turrets unusable:

Y3yR2oV.png

And here is another annoying forward artilery bug when trying to use on remotely hosted game:

9ZahDi6.png

To replicate try to run 10 Railjack missions in a row on remote host like betwen Europe/America and I am sure you will get few of these bugs.

The rest of things feels a bit less grindy but for getting components/salvage it would be more satisfying to earn it instead of dumb RNG code lotery in drops.

Looking forward what will come next with Railjack after. If it will get best ideas implemented from Star Citizen/Freelancer/Elite Dangerous/Mass Effect the content may become something unique and interesting...

Cheers!

 

Edited by T-1000
Added artilery bug screenshot

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Hi DE I would like to know when will a hot fix be for railjack because I can’t do anything on my railjack I can’t pick any reactors or anything so I do hope it get fixed because I enjoy doing railjack 

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On 2020-01-18 at 6:42 PM, divi_india said:

Exactly warframe has the dumbest AI. For enemies and spectres alike. There is no player skill involved. 

Let me elaborate a bit, so that my point is clearer.  

Ancient healers are a stupid enemy unit.  Stupid in the sense that they have an AOE damage reduction field, that's insanely strong.  Said field exists because a limited number of weapons have huge damage outputs, so instead of an intelligent unit we get an AOE with huge numbers.  This effect is so backwards that it is forced not to stack, and in similar instances (prosecutors) the spawns have to be spaced out lest they create invincible enemies.

 

Let's modify the behavior, with regards to established lore.  A healer focuses on one unit and provides about 80% damage reduction and a heal of about 15%/second.  The healer prioritizes heavy units, runs away and self heals if not killed once hitting 40% health, and prioritizes putting a meat shield between themselves and their enemy.  That's a functional non-combat unit, which delivers a huge buff, and is a priority target despite not being a bullet hose.  This isn't a huge change, but suddenly the enemy seems trickier by virtue of buffing, while being fair because there are so very many ways it can be addressed.

Let's also review what we have for the corpus.  Nullifiers are hated because they remove the ability to use powers, and their shields work unlike any other in game.  They functionally have infinite damage absorption for a number of attacks, and any attack made with multiple projectiles only counts as a single attack.  This functionally forces either CQC (close quarters combat) or high fire rate weapons.  Neither of which is viable when enemy scaling at high levels means a second without protective powers is death.  Instead let's make the Nullifiers carry a shield, which once deployed prevents any cast powers from influencing them or anyone behind them in a conical region.  They get a buff by having armor (unlike other corpus units), and they're now functionally going to use the Shield Lancer AI to be an aggressive attacker rather than a stupid shield bubble.  No new AI required, but an entirely different reaction from normal Corpus which makes them harder to deal with.

Let's also seek out the Grineer.  Without armor they're a squishy mess of units who focus on slash or knock-downs.  They've got the ability to deploy inflatable barriers, but often these just litter the field after their death in orientations which make no sense with tenno mobility.  Let's instead change Grineer such that commanders would spread a percentage of any damage done to them out to surrounding units.  The idea here isn't to make them smarter, but to nod to the expendable nature of Grineer and to prioritize controlling the commanders and focusing your damage on their mobs.  It's flipping the script on the game play, and once you get to high levels it's actually giving us a reason to do more than out DPS poor enemy scaling.  It also replaces the random Loki style teleport power, that makes little sense thematically.

 

Barring that, let's see some real AI improvements.  I'm thinking flanking from the sides rather than a death march right at you.  How about that old interview promise of "unique AI that actually misses the first few shots so it seems more realistic rather than an aim bot."  Yes some of us still remember that despite it being years ago (and the quotation being only very loosely accurate).  What do I know though?  Awarding 15 Trachons,  the equivalent of the very rare items, is somehow right when you need 1600 for an item.  If I wanted titanium it's 750 as end of mission.  That's 0.94% of an upgrade cost per end of mission reward on trachons versus 5% for titanium.  Wow, it's almost like the economy and AI both need work and the objective math agrees even if the subjective balance is what you're arguing is fine for certain people.  

Edited by master_of_destiny
Grammar and spelling
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19 hours ago, master_of_destiny said:

-snip-

You forgot to mention scrambuses. Basically more annoying than all 3 of those u mentioned. 

Edited by Prime_Reckoner

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2 hours ago, Prime_Reckoner said:

You forgot to mention scrambuses. Basically more annoying than all 3 of those u mentioned. 

With respect, I did not forget.  I don't see a way to fix how absolutely busted they are.

Nullifier were fabricated to stop-gap people from running rampant through levels by spamming AoE powers.  There was a time when Excalibur could functionally clear multiple entire rooms and Ember was literally a low level mission complete before she was a trash burner.

OK, maybe a Nullifier like unit was fine, in concept.  The problem is that people didn't engage with them because of that, so the Scrambus units were introduced.  They had an invisible field that negated powers, were fast, but lost the bubble shield.  A good time later their nullification fields were visualized, but the problem still stands that they move fast an have very little animation delay in using the negation ability.  Moreover, the new Nullifiers using melee weapons have good speed, bubble shields, and effectively mean that CQC attacks are stupid at high levels because they will shank you.

The "fix" to the bubble shield being a single weapon, which once modded can occasionally pop a bubble in one shot, is is not a solution either.  I have some love for the Miter given its mechanics, but a middle tier weapon requiring a syndicate mod that isn't a guaranteed pop is creating a problem then giving us a solution that only works most of the time and steals choice from us in a game that supposedly introduced Rivens just so we had choices. 

 

I honestly understand the fundamental logic of the Nullifier, but there's a reason that people choose to face the Grineer rather than Corpus.  Both units have ways to address them (shield strip or armor strip) via the aura slots, but the Corpus make the only way of addressing the broken scaling (powers) functionally a liability. 

If I could go back to the improved AI I'd suggest cutting Scrambuses entirely.  The replacement would be a unit with crewman level stats, but the mobility of the Scrambus.  Instead of the AoE blast they'd have sticky negation grenades like a Bursa, and a low range flash ability.  They'd have to rely on the surrounding units for damage, they'd negate tenno abilities, and if you got close they'd blind you.  Their speed would lend to a hasty retreat after the blind, and a lack of directly dealing damage means they would be an opportunity to either CC or to focus on direct damage depending upon how a group is kitted out.  The idea here is that lower levels would mean these units were an annoyance, middle tiers would see them start to require attention, and the higher tiers of difficulty would make these things a priority target despite 0 combat damage possibility.  Difficulty without having to boost damage, through evolving combat dynamics that don't need to actually be programmed.

 

I also missed Noxes (the definition of bullet sponges), manics (often times an insta-kill at high levels), Ancients (looking at groups stun locking you with their hook shots and murdering you that way), oxium ospreys (Zephyr main, so I still don't get why oxium in her doesn't lead to the same durability as the osprey), and a gaggle of other enemies in Railjack where AI is not needed when projectiles home in and fire rates make certain features useless.  Pretty much all of this can be tweaked slightly to be more difficult, in a fair way that doesn't just increase enemy damage.  Boosting enemy damage doesn't make a horde shooter more difficult, it makes choosing a support role infinitely less desirable because without very specific mods you will die.  Adaptation and Rolling Guard exist entirely to reinforce this point.

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In addition to what everyone else has said here, I'd also like to add that despite the fact that Railjack currently has the toughest content in the game (rather, its enemies are the bullet-spongiest and it has the most annoying one-shot mechanics that forces players to use meta equipment just to get through it in a timely fashion), it also rewards players far less. Arbitrations, Sorties, and ESO fart heaps of rivens, endo, radiant relics, and other rare items all over its players. Railjack gives us very modest bundles of materials you can already pick up in the map, regular Neo relics, a tiny handful of riven slivers, and maybe a ship part you can actually use if you sacrificed enough goats on a pentagram to RNGeesus beforehand.

Judging by the fact that you've only done bugfixes and minor numbers tweaks to the game mode so far—in addition to the fact that you're already looking on expanding to the Corpus side of space combat despite the fact that the current iteration still requires major changes—I think that it's (unfortunately) evident that you don't plan on making this game mode more fun for players by overhauling large sections of it. If that's the case, it would serve you well to at least make it more rewarding to encourage players to keep running it, to make it worth the time and effort put into it. Otherwise, it may ultimately end up as dead as Lunaro.

I am honestly depressed by the entire situation. I love space sims, and I was so excited for Railjack. How did I get so jaded this quickly?

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I am still refusing to go further in my Railjack progression and entire gameplay due to the fact that the SMALL nugget of lore was locked behind a timed event that needs special equipment. Lore-wise the entire thing makes no sense. NONE of the factions even look at this sentient ship, which threatens their own existence, and decides to focus their aggression towards it. Maybe i am just a lore nerd but the whole story is now hijacked for a game mode. 

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On 2020-01-17 at 3:32 AM, Sapphirya said:

q5tmfm14rpw31.jpg

Quote
On 2020-01-17 at 3:32 AM, Sapphirya said:

Good for those who didn't farm it yet

 

But now that you mention it no, you should all suffer my same fate.

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7 hours ago, Sapphirya said:

I am honestly depressed by the entire situation. I love space sims, and I was so excited for Railjack. How did I get so jaded this quickly?

Because DE's reach exceeded their grasp. Their intentions were noble and lofty and it is a cool idea, but it's a very mediocre and limited space sim.

Even if it was the Original Vision(TM) of Warframe, and even if there are absolute units of content on the docket, it should probably have been held over for another IP entirely. 

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Hi @[DE]Megan I was just wondering about a bug I found in railjack in the drydock which I think it is a bug because I can’t change or go into where I can pick or repair reactors shield array engines and the weapons and I love the railjack update I gotten used to it I just want to know will it be fix to where I can pick or repair my railjack parts 

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12 hours ago, Sapphirya said:

In addition to what everyone else has said here, I'd also like to add that despite the fact that Railjack currently has the toughest content in the game (rather, its enemies are the bullet-spongiest and it has the most annoying one-shot mechanics that forces players to use meta equipment just to get through it in a timely fashion)

It is same experience as in any other tough MMO. Like in EvE Online as described in old pic:

Learning+Cliff.jpg

Just as soon you get proper weapons and modules equipped the Gian Point in Veil Proxima can be completed under 7 minutes timeframe. For grineer crew ships, they still can be killed in one shot of artilery as they do have same weak spot like any other enemy in game (won't spoil it for finding which). So yeah, missing documentation and the lack of new content knowledge makes most of frustation.

Edited by T-1000
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5 hours ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

Because DE's reach exceeded their grasp. Their intentions were noble and lofty and it is a cool idea, but it's a very mediocre and limited space sim.

Even if it was the Original Vision(TM) of Warframe, and even if there are absolute units of content on the docket, it should probably have been held over for another IP entirely. 

On this point I have to disagree with you.  There are caveats, but I think the "original" vision of Warframe was at best a line drawing instead of a complete and cohesive pictures.

 

What we have currently is the original vision, but that's because they seem to continue shoving new things into where the white space used to exist according to whatever is popular.

 

I think we can agree loosely with that, but I disagree that Railjack required a new IP or game.  Right now the orbiter and landing craft are largely hand waved shenanigans, and the clan structures are built nowhere.  Railjack was an opportunity to meld everything into a cohesive mass, entirely addressing the disparate systems.  Why are the clan dojos not raided; they're either in void space or hidden at the edges of the solar system.  What the heck is with Archwing; it's the ultra-mobile tenno unit meant to take out behemoths in the rock-paper-scissors balance (archwing/fighters, railjack/crewships, galleons) of space combat.  How do we progress the story and add in a bunch of new content without simply making every body in the solar system another planet that people don't return to after beating; we make all existing locations have another layer of outer space.  All of that on paper is pretty amazing.

 

Where we run into issues is the fact that DE failed to plan and as usual promised everyone the moon.  Liches, full integration, squad link, feeling like you are powerful and amazing.  Yeah, none of this was delivered.  What we got is a grind hell, because progression based on a power function is great, right?  As you get to the top the abilities get less game changing, but cost as much as everything else you've already unlocked.  Liches, integration, multiple factions, and a lot of other bits are coming.  The balance was poor at best.  The economy made upgrades expensive and stupid because the next upgrade used the same resources and refunding the huge quantities was a joke.

I could continue to point out issues, but I'll go for some brevity (shock, I know).  If Railjack released as mediocre it would have been considered good.  Mediocre meaning that the economy was balanced, power felt good, and there was progression rather than grind.  The problem with Railjack isn't the inclusion in Warframe, but the fact that this was promised to be a cake, and as delivered somebody forgot half of the ingredients, baked at twice the temperature for half the time to get it out the door, and seems to actively not want to invest time into the systems until some unknown balance is reached and something more than minor number tweaks are possible.

 

I bought Monster Hunter World and The Witcher crossing over, despite how bizarro that is.  Space Ninjas becoming space pirates, that's good clean 1980's movie plot making right there.  Unfortunately instead of getting a good execution and being a B movie we've got something that belongs on Mystery Science Theater 3000, and not Space Balls.  Good lord, do we need a Mel Brooks level delivery this year.

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