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Idea for minor Rhino change


mutt93
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So i was thinking about warframe at work and it occurred to me how utterly useless most passives are. but one specifically stuck out at me. now i have mostly used Rhino since i started with Rhino prime at 14.3% of my usage base Rhino still in second with 8.2% usage and zepher prime tailing in third at 5.0% usage. for those who dont remember Rhinos passive is a ground pound slam dealeio after a long fall. basically the same as the heavy impact mod. most maps simply dont have room for making the high jumps to allow for long falls. and even if they did is it really that useful an ability? i couldnt tell you the last time i actually found the slam down usefull. my idea is simply. make his charge a passive. make it like an actual rhinos run. make players use the sprint function that is so rarely used instead of the slide jump combo. Instead of a dash attack knocking down foes make it a headlong charge the player controls. give it knockdown but reduce player turn rate while charging. let sprint mods effect it would be great to. since i love Iron Cladcharge and would hate to lose it make it so that brief moment of invulnerability after casting iron skin is where the charge gathers its bonus with enemys hit. haven't had any real ideas as to what to put in place of charge but im sure there are many forum users with some. Thanks for reading and any attempts to help make sure someone in DE sees this are greatly  appreciated.VVAWe6o.jpg.

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The community has had ideas similar to this for a while, DE just doesn't seem to care. 

With the advent of Limbo's 2nd(3rd?) rework, his Rift Walk was moved to his dodge which basically makes him the only frame I can think of with 5 abilities. They should do the same with many frames: 

Every Dash Frame should have their dash moved to the roll, and granted immunity during its duration. E.G

1.) Excalibur's Slash Dash on roll

2.) Rhino's Charge on Roll 

3.) Gauss' Mach Rush on Roll 

Frames without a Dash should get an ability linked to their dash that makes sense within their kit. E.G

1.) Valkyr's Augment Hysterical Assault should be her roll function

2.) Wisp's Roll could leave an after image for 1 second that distracts enemies and lowers aggro against her when she's not actively doing damage

3.) Frost's roll leaves an icy trail that increases Ally movement speed for 5 seconds, and procs enemies with cold who touch it. 

This would give Warframe movement each a unique feel and effect instead of 90% of warframes having the exact same movement, giving use to some of the lesser used abilities in the game(most people don't use Rhino charge for anything but Ironclad, most people don't use Slash Dash for anything but Surging Dash, Mach Rush is actually pretty good though, I don't want you to think that it's not), and making room for newer, updated abilities that are better for how the game plays today. 

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27 minutes ago, ShichiseitenYasha said:

The community has had ideas similar to this for a while, DE just doesn't seem to care. 

I think it's more that this suggestion isn't particularly popular (let alone necessary) to begin with. As a person who plays a decent amount of Excal/Rhino, I would absolutely hate for either of their 1's to be moved to Sprint or Dodge.

Sprinting/Dodging/1 are completely different mobility tools that can (and should) all be used in conjunction with each other. The thought of replacing one with another seems incredibly silly to me-- you might as well replace Zephyr's Jump with Tailwind or something.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think we can all agree that Rhino's passive is ass. But replacing his Sprint or Roll with his 1 is not the answer to this problem.

Edited by SortaRandom
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34 minutes ago, ShichiseitenYasha said:

Every Dash Frame should have their dash moved to the roll, and granted immunity during its duration. E.G

can we please not. leave Parkour alone and don't remove Player movement tools.
i dislike when so often Player Movement is requested to be nerfed.

Edited by taiiat
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Hildryn and Limbo also get all the effects of a normal roll in their dashes, and Hildryn's is an entirely cosmetic difference. So they're not really getting anything special. Saying Limbo has an extra ability also isn't much different from saying that Equinox, Ivara, and Vauban each have three extra.

I'm not going to deny that sprint is "little-used" for me; I toggle it on once at the start of the mission and don't touch it again. But if there was an option that was like held sprint but in reverse, where holding would un-sprint from a default state of sprinting, I would probably sometimes use that. Though I suppose that's called "aiming". 

There are a lot of bad, and especially old and bad, Warframe passives, but Rhino's does seem like something rather special, since it simply causes him to take slightly longer to recover from messing up a landing. It would be neat to see it updated to something beneficial instead. If his charge is really so weak it needs replacing, and having not played Rhino, I guess it wouldn't really surprise me to learn that was the case, that might be a bigger issue to solve. 

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On 2020-01-16 at 8:59 PM, SortaRandom said:

I think it's more that this suggestion isn't particularly popular (let alone necessary) to begin with. As a person who plays a decent amount of Excal/Rhino, I would absolutely hate for either of their 1's to be moved to Sprint or Dodge.

Sprinting/Dodging/1 are completely different mobility tools that can (and should) all be used in conjunction with each other. The thought of replacing one with another seems incredibly silly to me-- you might as well replace Zephyr's Jump with Tailwind or something.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think we can all agree that Rhino's passive is ass. But replacing his Sprint or Roll with his 1 is not the answer to this problem.

I dont play enough excal to vote on changing his 1. I suggested the change to rhino because I love playing him and want him to be the best he can with his kit and frankly his passive is annoying but I was also inspired by the actual rhinos he takes his name from. I will play him eather way I just hate to see any warframe that has a completely useless ability. Limbos 3 (and arguably 1 but I use that on sortie defense targets and rescue targets.) Valkittys 1. Pre rework wukongs 1,3 and 4. Frost passive,1 and 2. Ect etc. But I dont play enough of the rest to suggest changes. So I focus on rhino cause between him grendel and recently harrows thats who I use the most.

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2 hours ago, mutt93 said:

Valkittys 1. Pre rework wukongs 1,3 and 4. Frost passive,1 and 2.

fwiw, Ripline is useful for the purpose of taking a priority Target and moving it into a different Solar System - good for moving an Ancient and/or Eximus away from the Enemies its buffing, Et Cetera - this is less useful in more recent years where our Stats have a few extra zeroes behind them so we could just beyblade all of the Enemies in that group at once and Kill them all in one hit, but...
Freeze is useful to well, Freeze things. and the ground patch is creates is another layer of Slow you can stack, similarly the Ice Wave Augment is another layer of Slow on top of the Ice Status - so you can stack 3-4 layers of slow (w/ Snowglobe) depending on if the Enemy is Status immune or not. another situation where our Damage Numbers getting so many zeroes behind them makes having this many Slows to stack for incredible control of Enemies isn't as useful as it once was, though.

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On 2020-01-16 at 9:31 PM, ShichiseitenYasha said:

Every Dash Frame should have their dash moved to the roll

If Hydroid's Tidal Surge is his roll, I'm about to have a Very awkward time with this game.

I'm rolling and using movement techniques constantly.. it's why I can't get into Limbo or Wisp.

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2 hours ago, kapn655321 said:

If Hydroid's Tidal Surge is his roll, I'm about to have a Very awkward time with this game.

I'm rolling and using movement techniques constantly.. it's why I can't get into Limbo or Wisp.

Ideally, we have tweaks for all of these abilities so that they function the same as rolling does now in terms of speed, distance, and gravity. 

I haven't used Hydroid much, but from what I understand his Tidal Surge is very quick, and heavily affected by gravity and such. We would match the dash ability to the general animation time, distance, and gravity to how it would be when we had rolls and they're untargeted (in the event there's a roll ability that can target) 

Otherwise, I suppose we could just add new abilities in general to all of the dash frames, but in my opinion the dash abilities as purely movement abilities are weak, and the damage of most of them are, also, quite weak. They should be changed for the way the game works now, being as most of them need heavy focus into their range to be even roughly equivalent to momentum stacks. 

But, as an idea for Hydroid in the meantime we could definitely make him leave a miniature undertow tentacle trap. He'll leave a small puddle wherever he started his roll from, spawn a tentacle that does a radial spin attack to knockdown some enemies in range, and suck in one enemy with x meters to be trapped halfway into the puddle for like 5 seconds.

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1 minute ago, ShichiseitenYasha said:

But, as an idea for Hydroid in the meantime we could definitely make him leave a miniature undertow tentacle trap. He'll leave a small puddle wherever he started his roll from, spawn a tentacle that does a radial spin attack to knockdown some enemies in range, and suck in one enemy with x meters to be trapped halfway into the puddle for like 5 seconds.

Howdy, you might recall we talked in region the other day about Trin's roll.

I'm sure there are clever things that can be done with it.. but it would be one heck of an adjustment. If it's not totally pervasive and game wide, I know for dead certain I'll avoid it like I avoid Limbo and Wisp.. If it were game wide, I'd just have to adjust I suppose. Though if we're brainstorming, I would vastly rather his roll be more like Tidal Surge than leave tentacles.

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1 minute ago, kapn655321 said:

Howdy, you might recall we talked in region the other day about Trin's roll.

I'm sure there are clever things that can be done with it.. but it would be one heck of an adjustment. If it's not totally pervasive and game wide, I know for dead certain I'll avoid it like I avoid Limbo and Wisp.. If it were game wide, I'd just have to adjust I suppose. Though if we're brainstorming, I would vastly rather his roll be more like Tidal Surge than leave tentacles.

I just wanted a quick idea thrown out, instead of leaving it entirely in uncertainty. I'm always open to changing any of the ideas, so long as it just fits the theme and isn't totally overpowered. As opposed to what the others think, I don't want to make it harder or slower to move around, but just more unique for every frame and still be effective for something. 

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3 minutes ago, ShichiseitenYasha said:

I don't want to make it harder or slower to move around

I don't suspect that would be your goal. ..Not too many people truly itchin' to shoot themselves in the foot. It's fresh innovation geared toward making rolls more interesting, that much is all good. I'm more thinking along the lines of having 4k hours worth of synaptic infrastructure down with our current rolls, and how long it's going to take for a new system to feel comfortable.

I could stand rolls being a little tighter and shorter for sure, but never really considered they needed revision. I'm sure you've got our best interests in mind.

Edited by kapn655321
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7 hours ago, mutt93 said:

I dont play enough excal to vote on changing his 1. I suggested the change to rhino because I love playing him and want him to be the best he can with his kit and frankly his passive is annoying but I was also inspired by the actual rhinos he takes his name from. I will play him eather way I just hate to see any warframe that has a completely useless ability.

Rhino doesn't have any useless abilities, only a useless passive.

I'd personally really enjoy if he had an increased melee Slam radius based on height or something, just to maintain that "heavyweight" theme. Or maybe let Rhino deal damage + ragdoll enemies by sprinting/rolling into them (e.g. it deals the same amount of damage as a regular melee swing, affected by mods, but with innate ragdoll and pure Impact at base), which could change up his melee gameplay a bit.
There are loads of things that could be done with Rhino's passive that I would be 100% happy with. His ability kit, though, is already damn near perfect-- even his 1, which serves as an excellent mobility/crowd-gathering tool if you didn't go with negative Range or something.

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