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Synergistic Titania Rework. - Split Razorwing, Tribute Gates


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1 минуту назад, Pixzia сказал:

This is an outright lie, I can use an sub-200% strength build and out dps a Kuva Brakk, all depends on the enemy/builds.

This is not a lie. I consider this in most situations, and in most situations you have problems with heavy greneer. All other normal opponents do not have as much EHP. 

 

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5 минут назад, Pixzia сказал:

Which I have tested on and outperformed by miles. On the heavy of heavy at that.

Well, I make these conclusions based on my tests and I created a theme joke on this topic.

Спойлер

I don't deny that Dex Pixia can be useful. I'm just saying that I can take a strong weapon that doesn't require strength at all and focus my build on something else, like more CC. Dex Pixia gives me the ability to bypass the weapon restrictions of missions, this is enough to leave it in the set. But the truth is that conventional weapons are at about the same level. And if we talk about Divata, it's even worse there.

Edited by zhellon
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1 minute ago, zhellon said:

I don't deny that Dex Pixia can be useful. I'm just saying that I can take a strong weapon that doesn't require strength at all and focus my build on something else

And I agree on this, allowing people to have the option to use Razorwing without Exalted weapons allows for so much more modding diversity without completely ruining her 4.

Just saying that x weapon out preforms them is not a valid argument for it. (especially when it is simi-false)

 

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35 minutes ago, Pixzia said:

Again this could be fixed with a Tap/Hold but then again I don't really care if they do get split. Would allow for a weapon that give more up front dmg but Dex Pixia still have decent dmg. Another thing it would allow is actually being able to use Razorwing on -strength builds, not everyone wants to use Titania's Exalted weapons, but in doing this you lose the abilltiy use Razorwing.   Zero reasons to split one ability into two abilities? Sure, but there are reasons to split the Exalted weapons from Razorwing itself.

There’s nothing to fix. RazorWing is a perfectly fine ability that doesn’t need to be screwed with.

wasting time and effort to split the flying and weapons apart isn’t beneficial when that could be time and effort spent on actually giving Titania a good 1-3.

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I didn't realize how critical and subject of discussion splitting Razorwing would be when I made the topic,  so I updated the topics title to reflect the change.  Maybe more people will take notice with the title change.

Splitting Razorwing just felt more like common sense to me and I didn't second guess it or think twice about it.  But it's pretty important and seems to spark a good bit of interest.

 

How about the changes to 1 and 2 though?

I've seen quite a few topics or offhand comments about how a number of people wish there were better controls for the razorflies AI,  which I addressed here with this.  The 1 serving as both the spawner and the targeting/command indicator for directing Razorfly AI.   Plus significant increase to effectiveness by making it scale based off the enemies, so you have scaling razorfly health and more importantly scaling razorfly damage.   Depending on the numbers and percentages used,  this could potentially be a very effective shredder ability.  But then following the theme of how I like to encourage playstyle diversity,  it also can be a very effective defensive ability emulating the Amesha 1 if you instead choose to use it that way instead of using it offensively.  With a middleground even, used simply by how you choose to direct the razorflies with the 1 between enemies, allies, or both,  or used more selfishly as a personal survivability buff which is also fair and totally on the table.

 

The new 2, archgates,  similarly has a lot of potential comparable to Wisp Reservoirs,  with the added novelty of meme shenanigans (setting up race courses,   or just passive novelty in allies following you jumping through the gates you leave in your wake as you use them while on the move.    The utility of being able to reapply the buffs without having to recast the ability, and the utility of using them as shield walls defensively or even just for a moment when in a tight spot while doubling as its duration, health based instead of a timer.  So you have a tactical decision to place the gates out of harms way,  or in harms way defensively.

 

edit:

 

  

4 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

There’s nothing to fix. RazorWing is a perfectly fine ability that doesn’t need to be screwed with.

wasting time and effort to split the flying and weapons apart isn’t beneficial when that could be time and effort spent on actually giving Titania a good 1-3.

 

Yes there is, and yes it is, but it can be better.   As you should be able to plainly see in how you're in the minority here.   Splitting it would take barley any effort on DE's part in comparison, not requiring any new animations or design conceptualization.  So that's a mute point.  And as I said, for the player themselves it's not even an inconvenience to just tap the button a second time and could easily in fact be FASTER to deploy than it currently is with its longish animations.  meanwhile the benefits are staggering.

And as it should be plain to see,  reworking the 1-3 is a huge core focus of this topic.

Edited by Kingsmount
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30 минут назад, Pixzia сказал:

Just saying that x weapon out preforms them is not a valid argument for it. (especially when it is simi-false) ) )

What did I say wrong? You spend energy, which is a resource that is difficult to fill, in order to use a weapon that also has an ammo cap, as well as a normal weapon and gives a win maby in 3 seconds faster, even if you defeat a difficult opponent. There are many factors to consider here. Dex Pixia is far from a perfect weapon. And I can think of not many situations where I can use it. This is only necessary in principle against Lephantis and only because sortie has a restriction on weapons and you will be very long to kill it with a bow. Will I farm Hemocyte like Titania? Yes, sitting on Amesha and shooting from brakk kuva, because it works the same way as if I created the mad dps Titania build. I'm just too lazy to make a build that might kill the Hemocyte head 1 second faster, because I'm not worried about it. This is 1, maby 3, second. 

Except for these two aspects, it's hard to come up with situations for which this weapon is strong. Maybe for beginners. But in other situations, either you're a DPS fan or you think it's a waste of energy. Both opinions don't contradict each other, because you basically don't need a large DPS in most cases.

Edited by zhellon
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15 минут назад, Kingsmount сказал:
The new 2, archgates, similarly has a lot of potential comparable to Wisp Reservoirs, with the added novelty of meme shenanigans (setting up race courses, or just passive novelty in allies following you jumping through the gates you leave in your wake as you use them while on the move. The utility of being able to reapply the buffs without having to recast the ability, and the utility of using them as shield walls defensively or even just for a moment when in a tight spot while doubling as its duration, health based instead of a timer. So you have a tactical decision to place the gates out of harms way, or in harms way defensively.

I have already said my opinion. Latern objects with auras that Titania can carry. If you want to use this for racing, they can be useful just as pointing buoys. Yes, the allies will have to stay in a certain area to get an advantage from the buffs, but as for me, this is more of a positive effect that will make you stay in the same room on survival missions. Well, since Titania can carry 1 buff Latern with her, this can be used in quick missions. This system is less like Wisp, but still effective.

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28 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

There’s nothing to fix. RazorWing is a perfectly fine ability that doesn’t need to be screwed with.

"Perfectly fine" because clipping through terrain is fine. "Perfectly fine" because not being able to interact with stuff is fine. "Perfectly fine" because using an outdated flight model that was removed from the main system is fine. "Perfectly fine" because not having a reliable way to respawn razorflies is fine. This would not even change the core part of the ability yet you reject it as a possibility. Why? This would bring so much more needed build diversity to Titania yet this is not an option at all because she is "perfectly fine". This is not even a fix, it is an improvement/QoL change and if you can't see that then you are just blind.

On that note I still don't think she 100% needs it, there are other things her 4 could have tap/hold wise that would fix some holes in her 4th ability but they are just as likely if not only slightly more likely to happen than this change. (Holding down the ability key to respawn missing Razorflies at half the Cast cost)

 

31 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

wasting time and effort to split the flying and weapons apart isn’t beneficial

This is 100% your opinion, plus I feel like this would take the least effort considering it sounds like you want a compete rework of her first 3 abilities. 

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43 minutes ago, Kingsmount said:

Yes there is, and yes it is, but it can be better.   As you should be able to plainly see in how you're in the minority here.   Splitting it would take barley any effort on DE's part in comparison, not requiring any new animations or design conceptualization.  So that's a mute point.  And as I said, for the player themselves it's not even an inconvenience to just tap the button a second time and could easily in fact be FASTER to deploy than it currently is with its longish animations.  meanwhile the benefits are staggering.

And as it should be plain to see,  reworking the 1-3 is a huge core focus of this topic.

Me being in the minority of an argument literally means nothing to me. I took on five people at the same time who were trying to say Revenant was good (he’s not btw but that’s another topic for another thread). Just because I’m the only person here telling to that splitting razorwing is a bad idea does not instantly make me wrong.

Even if it didn’t take that much effort, it’s still a terrible idea that shouldn’t have dev time wasted on it. Wielding dex Pixia without an Archwing would need its own animation and so would Diwata.

There is next to no benefit it making Razorwing 2 seperate abilities. It only wastes a spot where a new practical ability could go, and would more than likely double the energy drain because you’d be channeling for both the flight and exalted weapons.

Correction. You want to rework her 1-2 and then just split razorwing between her 3-4.

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1 minute ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Just because I’m the only person here telling to that splitting razorwing is a bad idea does not instantly make me wrong.

Does not make you right either.

1 minute ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Even if it didn’t take that much effort, it’s still a terrible idea that shouldn’t have dev time wasted on it.[1] Wielding dex Pixia without an Archwing would need its own animation and so would Diwata.[2]

1. How is this a terrible Idea?

2. Not really. already can wield them out of Razorwing with bugs and they work perfectly fine. I don't see how it would be that much effort.

3 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

There is next to no benefit it making Razorwing 2 seperate abilities.

This is the only thing you have said that I can agree on.

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9 minutes ago, Pixzia said:

 

This is 100% your opinion, plus I feel like this would take the least effort considering it sounds like you want a compete rework of her first 3 abilities. 

Actually not really.

I want

1: replace it

2: better buffs added and in a more practical way of acquisition that’s not waiting on a specific enemy to show up

3: anchor it to the ground.

4: stays the same

They can easily iron out of the weird collision bugs with razorwing. Gutting out and separating the ability isn’t going to magically fix those issues.

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1 minute ago, Pixzia said:

Does not make you right either.

1. How is this a terrible Idea?

2. Not really. already can wield them out of Razorwing with bugs and they work perfectly fine. I don't see how it would be that much effort.

This is the only thing you have said that I can agree on.

You’re right. Being GearsMatrix makes me right.

Its a terrible idea because splitting a frames best ability into 2 different abilities instead of just making the rest of her abilities good does not make the frame better. It just removes an ability slot that could’ve been used to give a good squad buff, or other support ability. But no it’s just there wasting the potential for the frame to have more things that it can do.

I was talking about creating new idle animations for the weapons.

 

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1 minute ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Gutting out and separating the ability isn’t going to magically fix those issues.

Didn't say it would but it is not a bad idea to at least give people the option to use normal guns in Razorwing. Does not even have to take up a Ability slot, does not even effect the way she is played currently, just allows for more options of the players that want it. How is this a problem.

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Just now, Pixzia said:

 

Didn't say it would but it is not a bad idea to at least give people the option to use normal guns in Razorwing. Does not even have to take up a Ability slot, does not even effect the way she is played currently, just allows for more options of the players that want it. How is this a problem.

And what’s the exact benefit of using normal weapons in razorwing? Dex Pixia is already extremely strong, and it has infinite ammo. So there’s no reason to not use it in razorwing.

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1 минуту назад, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 сказал:

And what’s the exact benefit of using normal weapons in razorwing? Dex Pixia is already extremely strong, and it has infinite ammo. So there’s no reason to not use it in razorwing.

You don't have infinite energy.

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1 minute ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Being GearsMatrix makes me right.

Ah one of those people. Should have known.

2 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Its a terrible idea because splitting a frames best ability into 2 different abilities instead of just making the rest of her abilities good does not make the frame better. It just removes an ability slot that could’ve been used to give a good squad buff, or other support ability. But no it’s just there wasting the potential for the frame to have more things that it can do.

I already said splitting it into 2 abilities is a mistake. Never said that was the only thing wrong with her. Never said that was even a problem just that it would allow for more build diversity.

4 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

I was talking about creating new idle animations for the weapons.

Could just not be able to summon them unless you are in Razorwing, problem solved.

 

3 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

And what’s the exact benefit of using normal weapons in razorwing? Dex Pixia is already extremely strong, and it has infinite ammo. So there’s no reason to not use it in razorwing.

Being able to not have to worry about modding for strength on an ability that is 50% a mobility ability is the main complaint. Also considering some of her survivability comes from Razorwing you lose out on that as well. 

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2 minutes ago, zhellon said:

The most direct. Dex Pixia uses energy instead of ammo. So, no, you don't have infinite ammo.

I’m literally in the Simulcrum right now. I’m in razorwing. And there’s an ammo count on the side that goes down at the same rate as my dex Pixias fire rate, while my energy is draining at a slower rate than that. 
So, you’re wrong. Dex Pixia does not use energy as ammo.

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1 минуту назад, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 сказал:

I’m literally in the Simulcrum right now. I’m in razorwing. And there’s an ammo count on the side that goes down at the same rate as my dex Pixias fire rate, while my energy is draining at a slower rate than that.


So, you’re wrong. Dex Pixia does not use energy as ammo.

OK, then the opticor has infinite ammo.

Edited by zhellon
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Только что, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 сказал:

The opticor (or at least the vandal variant) has 8 bullets in the magazine and 250 reserve ammo. It does not have infinite ammo.

You only have 638 energy. What will end earlier without mods and arcanes?

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2 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

So we leave the ability exactly as it is.

Taping the ability to go/out of Razorwing. Hold to spawn/despawn Exalted melee if in Razorwing (holding out of Razorwing will make you go into Razorwing with your exalted weapons). I see no problem with this.

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