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Telos Boltace even more broken than one could think


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This thread has the sole purpose of showcasing DE how broken this weapon is in the hope to push a fix through asap! Please keep your discussions about the melee rework and other balancing points as well as other discussions e.g. about a pvp mode in a pve advertised game away from this thread! Same goes for nonconstructive comments!

Thank you for your understanding!

 

 

Hi this is a quick compilation of everything wrong with Telos Boltace in Conclave since the Old Blood Update and the included Melee 3.0 system. While this is most likely a thing on every platform, I tagged PC, because my experience and footage is solely based on the PC platform. If you experience other bugs/glitches/etc. with Telos Boltace in Conclave, feel free to list them here as well. Just mention which platform you are using if its not visible in your name Tag.

 

What makes Telos Boltace broken is its passive "Stormpath". It can apply two separated AOE effects on the Spin-Attack. The first effect is a pull which also damages and once activated it gives you an 8 second time frame in which you can activate the second effect with another spin-attack. The second effect will overwrite the first effect and used to be a knockdown, which got changed into a rag-doll effect with the Old Blood Update. Once the second effect got activated a 6 second cooldown will take effect. If the 8sec cooldown of the first effect or the 6sec cooldown of the second effect run out you can apply the first effect again. Both effects have a spherical 8m radius with no need for line of sight.

 

1rst Stormpath effect - Pull+Dmg:

  • Once activated this effect has a ca.1.7 second duration in which it is active. That means during that time frame it is pulling and dealing damage to everyone within its 8m range. If players enter the 8m radius from outside, while the effect is still active, they also gonna be affected by the effect as soon as they enter the max-range:
Spoiler
 
 
What is displayed: In the gif above I pass the 8m range after ~1.7 seconds have passed, which applied the pull+dmg effect.
The following gif shows a failed attempt in which I did not pass the max-range in time. (very close)
 
 

 

  • Here a quick gif to proof its spherical 8m shape:

 

 

2nd Stormpath effect - Ragdoll:

 

  • From testing the second effect, the ragdoll effect of Stormpath, does apply to everyone within the 8m radius. An instantaneous effect on activation, no activation duration similar to the first effect recognized:
Spoiler

What is displayed: The two following gifs showcase the instantaneous activation of the ragdoll effect at 8m range

 
 

 

  • The intensity of the ragdoll effect is depending on a couple factors. As far as I can say these most prominent ones are momentum (can be inherit - slingshot effect, Vector angles seem to have an effect aswell - reeling effect), the map surface (depending if there are walls to bounce off or a saving ground that will 'catch' you soon):
Spoiler

What is displayed: A non line of sight radgoll launch that used the stacked momentum of my bullet jump, which got held back by the pulling non line of sight first effect.

 

 

  • Once applied the Warframe is locked into the ragdoll effect aswell as a stand up animation after landing.

 

 

Inconsistencies and Problems:

The following points make Telos Boltace's AOE effects rather unpredictable and exploitable at the same time.

 

 

  • The AOE effects have no 'Line of Sight' requirement, which can be exploited easily and cause clusterf*cks and confusion on top:
Spoiler

What is displayed: Three gifs as proof that the AOE effects go through objects/walls/floor/roof - no line of sight required. (Note in the first gif that the ragdoll state ignores the death level, more to that later on)

My pov:

 
 
Kontrollo's pov:
Another pov of mine:

https://gfycat.com/windingchillyleafhopper-warframe

 

 

 

  • 1rst effect:

The damage ticks do not work consistent. Sometimes they are dealing 0 damage and sometimes the 'normal' damage, that is in the sum far too strong.The damage numbers are also hard to track due to the fountain effect in which they appear.

The pull effect seems to bug out and/or causes weird phenomena depending on the ping difference and/or data loss:

Spoiler

What is displayed: After I kill the Telos Boltace user, the pull effect is still applied on me, which causes me getting dragged and being stuck to his corpse.

 

 

 

  • 2nd effect:

While the ragdoll effect is applied, you sometimes can shoot and sometimes not. Here a quick gif to proof that you can shoot in the ragdoll state:

Spoiler
 
 
  • little side note: While its already inconsistent if you can shoot or not, it is also inconsistent that beside shooting freely you also could end up in a case of either having to give the shooting command again after being ragdolled, or having to hold the command once ragdolled, which would be automatic and charge weapon exclusive. If you release you can't shoot again if the latter case is in effect.

 

The ragdoll state and the following stand up animation render the opponent completely defenseless for quite the long time. Even with the cooldowns that Stormpath has this mechanic can easily be exploited to simply harass others the whole match long as the following gif gives a quick insight:

 

 

 

Game Breaking Bugs and Glitches:

The following points should not be possible at all in the game!

 

  • The Ragdoll state can glitch people through the ground as you can see in the following gif:

 

 

  • As long as the ragdoll state is applied it will make you ignore the death level that is supposed to kill you for the next respawn. Here a quick gif as proof:

 

  • This can cause two cases:
  1. You fall on the ground below the death level and survive there as long as you don't touch it or won't get shot or fall off further.
  2. You fall out of map boundaries which takes ca. 30 seconds until you respawn. (from ragdoll proc until the hard landing animation ends on respawn)

The following gifs and video showcase the 1. case:

Spoiler

My pov:

 

Degu's pov:

 

Another pov of mine - applying the ragdoll effect:

 

Another pov of mine - area below death level is exploitable:

 

 

 

The following gifs and videos showcase the 2. case:

Spoiler

My pov:

 

Degu's pov:

 

Another pov from Degu:

 

 

EDIT:

 

  • Desyncing which seems to be caused by the ragdoll effect of Stormpath

I sadly wasn't able to get a proper testing on this done so far, but I will share what I experienced and recorded until now and explain my short theory about it.

It seems like melee animations and maybe other animations negate or delay the ragdoll effect. If that happens something seems to break and you start to desync.

As far as I experienced that phenomenon, sudden teleports and random deaths were the major perceptible impacts on the gameplay. I got these cases recorded in the following gifs:

Spoiler

Random Death - short version:

https://gfycat.com/indolentfaroffhyracotherium-warframe

 

 

Random Death - long version:

https://gfycat.com/amusingglassgermanspaniel-warframe

 

 

Delayed Teleport - through melee animation:

https://gfycat.com/accomplishedexaltedanura

 

Delayed Teleport - through roll or not displayed auto blocking?:

 

Desyncing and Teleports in high ping lobby:

 

(Note that I also had cases in which I successfully negated the ragdoll effect with e.g. a melee animation and no teleport, death, or other delayed phenomena took effect at all.)

 

 

 

How to approach the problem - Suggestions:

 

As clearly shown in the upper compilation, Telos Boltace's Stormpath is a game breaking mechanic in Conclave. The aoe range along with its two separately apply able effects alone make the weapon an unbalanced and unfair piece, that has no place in a supposed competitive setting! Considering the grave impact on game-play that these effects cause and their high and easy to realize exploit potential make me come up with the following two conclusions:

  1. Remove Telos Boltace from Conclave until it will be reintroduced in a balanced and fixed state!
  2. Remove the Stormpath AOE effects from Telos Boltace!

 

Please note that I do NOT encourage players to use Telos Boltace until the listed issues have been fixed! Neither do I use nor exploit it myself for my own advantage!

The lobbies in the shown footage in which I used it myself were all private lobbies to gather visible proof. Much thanks to the partaking players!

Edited by Loxyen
Replaced the not functioning gif previews with their links.
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You know what really irks me?

The amount of time, we collectively and @Loxyen specifically, have invested into testing and documenting this weapon's problems, when all it would take is setting a single flag to zero.

 

It's not only horribly imbalanced, it even breaks the maps with its ragdoll for crying out loud. They went to lengths to fix the tricks we used in our Lisets, so we wouldn't be able to abuse it for decorating. And here we have a weapon doing just that in the competitive game modes.

It boggles the mind.

Edited by Kontrollo
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7 hours ago, Kontrollo said:

You know what really irks me?

The amount of time, we collectively and @Loxyen specifically, have invested into testing and documenting this weapon's problems, when all it would take is setting a single flag to zero.

 

It's not only horribly imbalanced, it even breaks the maps with its ragdoll for crying out loud. They went to lengths to fix the tricks we used in our Lisets, so we wouldn't be able to abuse it for decorating. And here we have a weapon doing just that in the competitive game modes.

It boggles the mind.

Don't forget the broken lamp bug fixes. Those were important.

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On 2020-01-20 at 7:23 AM, Tachmag said:

Don't forget the broken lamp bug fixes. Those were important.

Truely game breaking bugs of upmost importance. I don't think I could've played until they fixed those lamps.

These 1 shotting AOE game breaking weapons? Pfft, everyone can adapt to that and it's really fun to play with them /s

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On 2020-01-19 at 3:23 PM, Loxyen said:

Love the extent this goes into the issue!  Amazing to see it all displayed in detail.

 

Quote

 

This can cause two cases:

  1. You fall on the ground below the death level and survive there as long as you don't touch it or won't get shot or fall off further.
  2. You fall out of map boundaries which takes ca. 30 seconds until you respawn. (from ragdoll proc until the hard landing animation ends on respawn)

 

In cases where there's not a lower level, you won't survive. The Cephalon Citadel is an example. Still fell for 30 seconds, though.

 

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20 hours ago, (PS4)TheThymeLord said:

In cases where there's not a lower level, you won't survive. The Cephalon Citadel is an example. Still fell for 30 seconds, though.

You get returned to the map in Citadel after a while, yes. But if you're unlucky, you get yeeted out of the map again right after the reset. I've seen a clip of his where that actually happened.

It's basically a falling simulator at that point.

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11 hours ago, Kontrollo said:

You get returned to the map in Citadel after a while, yes. But if you're unlucky, you get yeeted out of the map again right after the reset. I've seen a clip of his where that actually happened.

It's basically a falling simulator at that point.

 

You also can get shot in the ragdoll state and die before falling too far out of the map.

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  • 1 month later...
6 hours ago, (PS4)Xx-Ribbium-xX said:

Just remove it from conclave already 

I can't agree any more to this... The count of random teleports through the map caused by Stormpath's pull that I had to go through the previous weekend alone... incredible!

Edited by Loxyen
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On 2020-03-13 at 5:37 PM, Loxyen said:

I can't agree any more to this... The count of random teleports through the map caused by Stormpath's pull that I had to go through the previous weekend alone... incredible!

Thats one thing but when players abuse this to make even more broken combos with frames like nidus. Its no wonder players dont play conclave 

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  • 1 month later...
  • 1 month later...
3 minutes ago, Kontrollo said:

How is this still a thing?

By my estimation based on the previous timelines for conclave exploits getting fixed, we're still about 4-5 months away.

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On 2020-05-30 at 11:58 PM, Sevek7 said:

By my estimation based on the previous timelines for conclave exploits getting fixed, we're still about 4-5 months away.

Don't worry they'll introduce like 5 other broken things once boltace gets fixed.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 2020-06-06 at 11:30 PM, Okami_Shiranui said:

Don't worry they'll introduce like 5 other broken things once boltace gets fixed.

I'm cool with that if one of those broken things is Telos Boltace users ragdolling themselves from then on (but not outside map limits).

 

Speaking to the black hole that is DE staff reading this subforum: we're soon approaching 8 months, by the way.

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https://gfycat.com/finishedrarekillerwhale

Here is another old clip I found... basically displays most of whats wrong with Telos Boltace:

A delayed teleport from the pull into the ragdoll state that caused me to glitch through the rocks, past the death-level and to fall out of the map...

 

Dear DE.. Sincerely.. If there is only so little you can spend on Conclave, please for the sake of your community, handle the Telos Boltace problem with the highest priority. It'll be just a matter of disabling the weapon or its passive in Conclave for a fix.

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One day, when I'm old and grey. The wrinkles have set in. I watch my grandchildren play. The long career is over, my contribution complete. I look back on past achievements, with a mixture of pride and regret. Then I see, with ecstatic joy, that after 50 years DE have finally fixed this exploit. A tear runs down my cheek. It's too late for me, but at least the next generation can enjoy exploit-free gameplay. 

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On 2020-06-28 at 9:21 AM, Sevek7 said:

One day, when I'm old and grey. The wrinkles have set in. I watch my grandchildren play. The long career is over, my contribution complete. I look back on past achievements, with a mixture of pride and regret. Then I see, with ecstatic joy, that after 50 years DE have finally fixed this exploit. A tear runs down my cheek. It's too late for me, but at least the next generation can enjoy exploit-free gameplay. 

UG4LtBM.jpg

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De dosen't care about us conclave players. One of many reasons I stopped spending money on the game. And until I see some results in this I never will. The boltace needes to be removed no questions asked, To even suggest otherwise is ignorant, So many people have quit for good over the neglected game mode on xb1. 

It wasn't so bad when it was just a knock down, but still kinda borderline cheese.

I think wolfsledge could use a cooldown as well. Like 10 seconds at minimum. 

Look at the boltace video I put on my Twitter, Just stupid.

Just look up my name.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 2020-07-20 at 11:52 AM, Kontrollo said:

In a rare show of solidarity, even a Warframe Reddit thread about Conclave has managed to garner upvotes:

https://old.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/htmzsc/how_is_this_bullS#&$_not_removed_from_conclave/

And to save you a click, yes it's about removing Telos Boltace from Conclave.

clicked anyway 😎. Mind linking this thread to him if not already done so he knows its 8m not 14m?

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