Honest question about status on shotguns.

[(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx]

I have never met anyone happy about how status works on shotguns. Being that it's basically chance that at at least one pellet will apply status unless your status chance is 100.... Sure this works with single projectile shotguns like Plasmor and probably works okay on the energy shotguns... 

But the pellet shotgun it may be one of the most non-understood physics in the game. 

So. Has DE EVER said why they're doing it this way when absolutely no one thinks it's a good idea?... Or I'm sorry, like, a few people will think it's a good idea... because there's always someone. At this point I'm not asking them to fix it im just asking why this is a thing in the first place...

[Asphyxxia]

It's not just shotguns but anything with multiple pellets per shot. Shotguns basically have innate multishot, so even their base status chance is actually status probability. If you were to slap 500% multishot on a rifle and have 100% status chance then it would work just like a shotgun. Take Cernos Prime as an example.

[Benour]

Cuase it would be broken/OP. Now every shotgun would be status monster removing all armor in 2 shots (there are few 100% status shotguns that can do that).

[Tessador]

an extra tooltip for statuschance per shoot and statuschance per pellet would be nice for all weapons (perhaps as hidden mouseover tooltip on SC)

[taiiat]

early on into Damage v2, Shotgun-like Weapons were handled just like you'd expect as normal. at the time, it worked pretty well, because Status Chances for these Weapons was still fairly low and less Mods offering Status Chance.

so you'd have a Shotgun firing roughly a dozen Projectiles at say, 7.5-15% Status Chance. and you'd at most be able to increase that by say another 8% at best.
those sorts of numbers worked really well.

 

but, it wasn't too long before Shotgun-like Weapons were changed to how they are now. however in the many years since that point in time we've had a......... hell of a lot more Mods offering Status Chance, so maybe it was a coincidence or not but it was good in a way because we went from being able to add about +15% or +30% or up to +40% Status Chance to Weapons to this mess we have now of being able to add about +500% Status Chance to Weapons at its most extreme.

[NinjaZeku]

Mechanically, Shotguns could be changed to the "instant burst" thing that e.g. Quartakk uses,
with normal Status Chance per pellet rather than it getting spread thin, just make the burst only consume 1 Ammo.

2 hours ago, Benour said:

Cuase it would be broken/OP. Now every shotgun would be status monster

I mean, of course a balance pass would need to / should accompany this change.

But as it is, flipping a magic switch upon hitting 100% Status is not any less broken
(in which I also include the meaning of it being quite silly on a technical / logical level).

Edited January 22, 2020 by NinjaZeku

[trndr]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Black-Cat-Jinx said:

So. Has DE EVER said why they're doing it this way when absolutely no one thinks it's a good idea?... Or I'm sorry, like, a few people will think it's a good idea... because there's always someone. At this point I'm not asking them to fix it im just asking why this is a thing in the first place...

There was a short time where it was changed. But to "ballance" the status got nerfed so bad, there was outcry and the stats and function got reverted to what it had always been *since first change and is now.

**The why is a probably a matter of implementation, ie it's the shot that has properties and not the weapon. 

**The weapon only sets what type of shots and the count.

I've never met any player who disliked the way it works. 

**If anything should change, it's the ui to just say the pellet stats with a massive x24.6 or whatever the pellet count is after multishot mods.

1 hour ago, NinjaZeku said:

Mechanically, Shotguns could be changed to the "instant burst" thing that e.g. Quartakk uses,
with normal Status Chance per pellet rather than it getting spread thin, just make the burst only consume 1 Ammo.

**That just changed the ui, and the stats were also changed to not be garbage.

Original status chance on quartak was 2.5ish% per pellet.

 

**brain fart. Confused with original implementation where a 30% status shotgun couldn't get to 100% status as the mods worked per pellet. 

Edited January 22, 2020 by trndr
Included fake facts.

[NinjaZeku]

6 minutes ago, trndr said:

That just changed the ui

Not quite, weapons like Quartakk and Akjagara, i.e. guns with "innate Multishot"
used to share the Shotgun problem of Status Chance being spread among the individual "pellets"
but that was fixed and now each of the pellets has its own Status Chance equal to the value listed in the weapon stats.

Or at least, that's how I understand it, I could be wrong, dunno lol.

... actually, why not Wiki:

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Quartakk

Prior to Update 22.9, the Quartakk functioned as a semi-automatic rifle that fired four bullets per shot. This caused the weapon's status chance to behave similarly to multi-pellet shotguns, in that the listed status chance was split between each bullet. After the update, the Quartakk was changed into a burst-fire rifle firing four bullets simultaneously, resulting in each bullet having the listed status chance instead of being split.

[Bipp]

48 minutes ago, trndr said:

I've never met any player who disliked the way it works. 

 

I bet those are players who simply don't know how it properly works and just how bad it hurts status on shotguns.

The types of people who mod 60s on Pyrana Prime and marvel at what they think is an "insane amount of slash procs you guys"

[trndr]

6 minutes ago, Bipp said:

I bet those are players who simply don't know how it properly works and just how bad it hurts status on shotguns.

Mate it helps shotguns. If they don't work like this, they'll never get 100% status.

Are you one of the players who doesn't have a 120% kohm riven and therefor noone should have 100% status?

[Ogundiety]

I don't mind the system, but I would be happy with a tooltip fix for number of pellets/status per pellet.  Just some UI cleanup

[Bipp]

3 minutes ago, trndr said:

Mate it helps shotguns. If they don't work like this, they'll never get 100% status.

Are you one of the players who doesn't have a 120% kohm riven and therefor noone should have 100% status?

I'm pretty sure the point in the OP is that if it didn't work like it does now but instead like regular guns (say quartakk and akjagara) there'd be no need for 100% in the first place because they'd be able to proc reliably. Right now if you don't get that 100% you might as well forget about building for status. How does that help shotguns?

But honestly t's fine because you have two more weapons that you can use to get around armour so that a status incapable shotgun can put out its raw damage but that's besides the point.

I actually did have a sc kohm roll before but I sold it because I wanted plat more than I enjoyed using that gun. 

[(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx]

So overall the philosophy is "multshot is the meta" and "if all weapons with multishot have high status per projectile chance it will be overpowered"....

Just to present a point. I wonder how this reconciles to DE stating publicly that they now consider their scaling system to be irreconcilably broken and are now engaging on a rework of the system which may be over all beneficial, or, may be incredibly damaging if they mess something up or fail to think it through. 

Seeing as multishot is now something people put on literally every weapon, with maybe a very few exceptions, having status work like crit would open more shotguns into the "end game" which is where they have declared their scaling to be broken, while letting "status" shotguns do more damage because you no longer have to use the 6060 mods to reach 100. Non shotgun weapons will also be more effective because they do their damage at range. 

It seems to me the attempts to limit status effects in order to make the game "harder" was a poorly thought out decision that is now forcing them to put money and effort into rebuilding an already existing system. If they hadn't broken status on multishot "back then", we wouldn't be having DE declair their scaling system broken now. Granted there would probably be something else that was broken but status doesn't begin to even matter until you reach at least the 80s and it doesn't become a problem until the 120s to 130s. Which is why the plinx is a fun little gun but once you get above a certain level it's best if you left it in your toychest... mm...it's okay on infested. mostly.

The majority of players will play through most of the game never noticing why status matters because most of the content that most people have access to for the first year or so of their game play won't come across much that lack of status will put them in crisis against. It looks like they are now having to rework armor scaling now because they put a hard limit on status application way back when.

"Yes but at levels above 100 you're mostly using your warframe abilities" yeah but.... that's kinda part of the problem isn't it. That your equipped weapons (melee not withstanding) aren't keeping up with your frames ability to deal damage, which... kinda limits what frames you can use, because not all of them are damage dealers and sometimes crowd control just means all the things that are shooting at you are in one place now. 

[(XBOX)DA ZACHYZACHY]

Who cares? Every weapon acts differently, and with status shotguns become crazily op.