"Warframe community is not toxic" they said...

[(PSN)Herrwann69]

DE is to be blame too on this matter. The way they designed the game for many updates is pushing the incentive on efficiency, clearing speed and nuke frames. It's no more casual or fun build friendly so players liking to play those kind of builds are not common anymore and only remain those who are hooked to the excessive grind and want to be quicker and quicker all the time.

Look at Destiny, it's the same problem.

Predatory behaviours to hook you to the game by using anxiety and biais only lead to toxic community.

Edited January 24, 2020 by (PS4)Herrwann69

[Otobai]

You'd think by MR 28 you'd stop caring about what other people think of your build.  You do you.

[(PSN)DeZaruu]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Herrwann69 said:

DE is to be blame too on this matter. The way they designed the game for many updates is pushing the incentive on efficiency, clearing speed and nuke frames. It's no more casual or fun build friendly so players liking to play those kind of builds are not common anymore and only remain those who are hooked to the excessive grind and want to be quicker and quicker all the time.

Look at Destiny, it's the same problem.

Predatory behaviours to hook you to the game by using anxiety and biais only lead to toxic community.

I'd argue the game more than ever (outside of Empyrean, I'll get to that) is very versatile. I'm MR28 and almost got all the mastery, and I love frames which are squishy as hell (Banshee, Equinox, Saryn - it paints a picture, Hildryn is the outlier), but rather than go full on meta, I rather throw in stuff like Adaption, even Rolling Guard - as.. I rather not be a glass cannon and it's more relaxing for me if I can actually sustain some damage.

Weapon-wise it's the same imo. 

Empyrean is the exception, but it sounds like hotfixes are sorting that - along with the complete AW overhaul. As it sure is something to enter a POI and die the second you see your frame load in, or being forced to use Amesha if you don't want to instantly die to everything.

I trust DE will improve Empyrean though. As creators, I get why they pushed the update - it was a mentally thing; it'll be delayed indefinitely if they don't put it out there and have thousands of people playing. I think about how the game will be by May, and honestly think it'll be really damn great and varied in Empyrean (I already have fun with it, but the changes/fixes make it even better imo)

[(PSN)Herrwann69]

il y a 2 minutes, (PS4)DeZaruu a dit :

I'd argue the game more than ever (outside of Empyrean, I'll get to that) is very versatile. I'm MR28 and almost got all the mastery, and I love frames which are squishy as hell (Banshee, Equinox, Saryn - it paints a picture, Hildryn is the outlier), but rather than go full on meta, I rather throw in stuff like Adaption, even Rolling Guard - as.. I rather not be a glass cannon and it's more relaxing for me if I can actually sustain some damage.

Weapon-wise it's the same imo. 

Empyrean is the exception, but it sounds like hotfixes are sorting that - along with the complete AW overhaul. As it sure is something to enter a POI and die the second you see your frame load in, or being forced to use Amesha if you don't want to instantly die to everything.

I trust DE will improve Empyrean though. As creators, I get why they pushed the update - it was a mentally thing; it'll be delayed indefinitely if they don't put it out there and have thousands of people playing. I think about how the game will be by May, and honestly think it'll be really damn great and varied in Empyrean (I already have fun with it, but the changes/fixes make it even better imo)

You are a mr28, meaning you have been here for a long time and maybe don't need to farm much anymore because you've been there to farm every new stuff real time on release. So yes, for you it's easier to use a glass cannon non meta build for fun and you are right to do it as fun should be the main reason to play the game. 

But for players that joined not so much time ago or don't have too much time to play the amount of content to farm and grind is huge and DE is doing everything he can to hook you and make you feel that you are missing something and that you need to speed up or use platinum. You can feel overwhelmed or start playing for efficiency only, getting bitter and angry regarding non meta builds. It's bad and you shouldn't feel like this regarding a game but it's a reality and DE is doing it on purpose.

[(PSN)DeZaruu]

23 minutes ago, (PS4)Herrwann69 said:

You are a mr28, meaning you have been here for a long time and maybe don't need to farm much anymore because you've been there to farm every new stuff real time on release. So yes, for you it's easier to use a glass cannon non meta build for fun and you are right to do it as fun should be the main reason to play the game. 

But for players that joined not so much time ago or don't have too much time to play the amount of content to farm and grind is huge and DE is doing everything he can to hook you and make you feel that you are missing something and that you need to speed up or use platinum. You can feel overwhelmed or start playing for efficiency only, getting bitter and angry regarding non meta builds. It's bad and you shouldn't feel like this regarding a game but it's a reality and DE is doing it on purpose.

Oh right, yeah I started around TennoCon 2018 - for new players, I do think certain aspects should be sorted out.

Such as:

- Why are flawed mods a thing? Absolutely pointless aspect imho and should go asap

- Void Fissures are weird, the reactant should just be group-wide as a new player can be overwhelmed or join late, miss out in stuff because it can be intimidating to write in chat

- The forge times are very rough at times. For primed gear, all good - but regular frames should just be halved in time, or even down to 24 hours

- The whole "precept order" for companions is not explained iirc, so - see #1

- The whole "shotguns need 100% status or else it's split across each pellet" is so weird when we've other weapons which functions like shotguns, but don't have the rule, adding more complications for newcomers

- MK gear should just come with orokin installed, it's easy to waste on those early on and I feel like that's a QoL for newcomers anyone can accept

I'm sure there's more I'm missing, but overall I'd just love to see the things eased up a little for new people. I like to help when someone asks, and sometimes you run into someone who's just thankful someone take a second to help out a little. I love Warframe as a game, but there's a lot of into to take in. 

BUT, I don't think it's on purpose DE has the game like this, I think they're doing good steps like improving the abilities screens, mod menu and ever so slowly make things a bit better explained - much of it is as they say; just been there for years and not been touched, while the game as a whole has sped up a looot (just look at the remasters and the reworks, all to make things faster - which is great when you're used to it, but I can definitely see how it's overwhelming earlier on)

And then there's the "why are some mods so hard to get you've to look up if they even exist?", such as the Link Mods for companions

Edited January 24, 2020 by (PS4)DeZaruu

[(PSN)Herrwann69]

il y a 6 minutes, (PS4)DeZaruu a dit :

Oh right, yeah I started around TennoCon 2018 - for new players, I do think certain aspects should be sorted out.

Such as:

- Why are flawed mods a thing? Absolutely pointless aspect imho and should go asap

- Void Fissures are weird, the reactant should just be group-wide as a new player can be overwhelmed or join late, miss out in stuff because it can be intimidating to write in chat

- The forge times are very rough at times. For primed gear, all good - but regular frames should just be halved in time, or even down to 24 hours

- The whole "precept order" for companions is not explained iirc, so - see #1

- The whole "shotguns need 100% status or else it's split across each pellet" is so weird when we've other weapons which functions like shotguns, but don't have the rule, adding more complications for newcomers

- MK gear should just come with orokin installed, it's easy to waste on those early on and I feel like that's a QoL for newcomers anyone can accept

I'm sure there's more I'm missing, but overall I'd just love to see the things eased up a little for new people. I like to help when someone asks, and sometimes you run into someone who's just thankful someone take a second to help out a little. I love Warframe as a game, but there's a lot of into to take in. 

BUT, I don't think it's on purpose DE has the game like this, I think they're doing good steps like improving the abilities screens, mod menu and ever so slowly make things a bit better explained - much of it is was they say; just been there for years and not been touch, while the game as a whole has sped up a looot (just look at the remasters and the reworks, all to make things faster - which is great when you're used to it, but I can definitely see how it's overwhelming earlier on)

And then there's the "why are some mods so hard to get you've to look up if they even exist?", such as the Link Mods for companions

Mr28 in 18 months ?

I understand why you don't get the way DE's business model is working and that you don't see the problem.

Edited January 24, 2020 by (PS4)Herrwann69

[(PSN)DeZaruu]

Just now, (PS4)Herrwann69 said:

Mr28 in 18 months ?

I understand why you don't feel the way DE's business model is working and that you don't see the problem.

And what is that supposed to mean?

I'm methodical and like to complete things (I didn't farm for the Hema though, bought it with a 75% coupon - I've tried... so hard to farm 5,000, but even I can't deal with that)

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

1 hour ago, (PS4)DeZaruu said:

The AFKing is so bad I wouldn't believe it myself unless I was there.

It ranges from "I'm a Saryn, why the **** do  you care if I AFK?", people saying they're busy with something else, to someone literally using awful language in chat and telling me to plug in a headset if I want to fight.

To make it clear; I don't use chat, but if someone is obnoxiously AFKing, I write a simple "Don't exhaust yourself" or "Let me know if you find something on that wall you've been looking at."

However, I'll bring up THE WORST situation I've run into and why I only solo Empyrean...

I joined a random squad for Emprean. I've maxed my own Railjack and just need some avionics, so I relax and join squads since I assumed Veil and to some extent late Saturn was at least dedicated people.

I didn't notice anything unusual, I was doing my AW thing, when the host said "help on ship", I returned and helped, noticed he was at the far back at the forge - not moving at all, but spawned some specters. I went out agian. and saw he died - thought to myself "he is AFK isn't he..."

I returned when everything in the mission was done, and he was dead in the exact same spot I saw him, not said a single word since "help on ship", his specters ran about.

We waited for him to return and get us to a dojo. 10min passed; one guy left, I grew impatient and made it clear in chat; if you're not back soon, I'll blow up your Railjack."

20min went by total, and  the third guy who still remained was also just waiting at navigation, we both knew he was not coming back to send us to the dojo and I said "I'm sorry, but if we don't get our rewards as we're forced to quit - he ain't getting ****."

I blew up his Railjack by finding small turrets around, slamming it into stuff and have boarding parties go wild.

I regret nothing and I'll never forget that happened.

So that's why I get annoyed when people tell me "Oh the community is amazing, never had any issue!!!" Empyrean had been out for like two weeks when it happened, and we already had to deal with that kind of people?

And on the topic of the bad names.. A friend and I play together during weekends, and roughly.. I want to say twice a month (so roughly 1 every 12 hour), some idiot has a nazi-related PSN or named their companions something like it. And some of them use deep cuts of horrifying references

I live in Denmark (also why I know more references, as it's a huge focus for history studies here), so maybe time zones matters - I wouldn't know. But I'll straight-up leave a squad when I see it and write a report as the people who name themselves such things shouldn't be allowed to use the online services.

 

My 2k plus hours and ive seen very little toxicity outside the forms. Not saying what you've described didn't happen. But also If you're constantly matchmaking with these.people it may say something about you the universe always brings you Round people who are similar to you 

[Aldain]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

the universe always brings you Round people who are similar to you

That would explain why all my friends are absolutely weird.

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

52 minutes ago, (PS4)DeZaruu said:

), but rather than go full on meta, I rather throw in stuff like Adaption, even Rolling Guard -

Thats the meta for alot of dps frames 

[(PSN)DeZaruu]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

My 2k plus hours and ive seen very little toxicity outside the forms. Not saying what you've described didn't happen. But also If you're constantly matchmaking with these.people it may say something about you the universe always brings you Round people who are similar to you 

Fascinating.

So since I see it - and you don't - it's possible without me knowing, I somehow AFK all the time, I black out and insult strangers and my PSN "DeZaruu" is an awful reference - along with Sweetah, my Smeeta Kavat?

Well, I'll be damned huh

That's my way of telling you; no

[(PSN)Herrwann69]

il y a 9 minutes, (PS4)DeZaruu a dit :

And what is that supposed to mean?

I'm methodical and like to complete things (I didn't farm for the Hema though, bought it with a 75% coupon - I've tried... so hard to farm 5,000, but even I can't deal with that)

It means that you are exactly the kind of profile DE want to hook, people who feel the need to methodically complete and grind stuff and get involved hard into the process. You cannot be mr28 in 18 months when playing the game when playing casually without the will of performance. You don't see the problem with this because you are the perfect kind of customers for DE.

And often this kind of players, not everyone, and not you if you say so I believe you, tend to be toxic regarding non meta and less performing builds are they are slowing down their progression.

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)DeZaruu said:

Fascinating.

So since I see it - and you don't - it's possible without me knowing, I somehow AFK all the time, I black out and insult strangers and my PSN "DeZaruu" is an awful reference - along with Sweetah, my Smeeta Kavat?

Well, I'll be damned huh

That's my way of telling you; no

I can tell by your response why you get matched up with the people you complain about 

[(XBOX)N00BICIDE777]

I main Excal. and have no regrets.

from Conclave to ESO

Excalibro for life.

[(PSN)DeZaruu]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Herrwann69 said:

It means that you are exactly the kind of profile DE want to hook, people who feel the need to methodically complete and grind stuff and get involved hard into the process. You cannot be mr28 in 18 months when playing the game when playing casually without the will of performance. You don't see the problem with this because you are the perfect kind of customers for DE.

And often this kind of players, not everyone, and not you if you say so I believe you, tend to be toxic regarding non meta and less performing builds are they are slowing down their progression.

Oh, I fully agree with this. I happen to have a lot of patience and farming is just very relaxing for me, but then I also know in an alternative timeline there's millions of me who's like "Gosh, I just want to get this item to be 100% done" and then pay up. 100% acknowledge that.

I think the reason I don't, is because I've a weird "flaw"; if I spend too much in a F2P game, I lose interest as I feel I speed up the pacing and get bored. I played some Nexon SRPG for 2 years, then bought a bundle of their premium currency and quit within a week, same happened to another one of those mobile games 

And the latter is easy to explain; I generally can't stand the "you're playing it wrong", as imo.. If you're having fun (and obviously not ruining others fun), you're doing nothing wrong. And most of the time I farm/grind by myself listening to music, same back when I played WoW 10-15 years ago

Your example is great tho, didn't think of it - and I'm sure I at some point also had moments of "argh why are they not doing xyz" (can't think of a specific one, as I mostly quit online games, but I'm sure some raid in WoW I had moments of "stop messing up!" in a harsh phrasing). 

[ItsMistahWolfe]

I've been playing for 6 years mate and the one thing i have told countless people, countless times still stands strong. The moment you stop giving a sh*t about what other people think, about you and what you do, the much happier and better off you will be. Play the game the way you want to, do what you enjoy and if anyone else has a problem with it, just ignore them and tell them to mind their own business. 

[(PSN)death404]

3 hours ago, (PS4)DeZaruu said:

The AFKing is so bad I wouldn't believe it myself unless I was there.

It ranges from "I'm a Saryn, why the **** do  you care if I AFK?", people saying they're busy with something else, to someone literally using awful language in chat and telling me to plug in a headset if I want to fight.

To make it clear; I don't use chat, but if someone is obnoxiously AFKing, I write a simple "Don't exhaust yourself" or "Let me know if you find something on that wall you've been looking at."

However, I'll bring up THE WORST situation I've run into and why I only solo Empyrean...

I joined a random squad for Emprean. I've maxed my own Railjack and just need some avionics, so I relax and join squads since I assumed Veil and to some extent late Saturn was at least dedicated people.

I didn't notice anything unusual, I was doing my AW thing, when the host said "help on ship", I returned and helped, noticed he was at the far back at the forge - not moving at all, but spawned some specters. I went out agian. and saw he died - thought to myself "he is AFK isn't he..."

I returned when everything in the mission was done, and he was dead in the exact same spot I saw him, not said a single word since "help on ship", his specters ran about.

We waited for him to return and get us to a dojo. 10min passed; one guy left, I grew impatient and made it clear in chat; if you're not back soon, I'll blow up your Railjack."

20min went by total, and  the third guy who still remained was also just waiting at navigation, we both knew he was not coming back to send us to the dojo and I said "I'm sorry, but if we don't get our rewards as we're forced to quit - he ain't getting ****."

I blew up his Railjack by finding small turrets around, slamming it into stuff and have boarding parties go wild.

I regret nothing and I'll never forget that happened.

So that's why I get annoyed when people tell me "Oh the community is amazing, never had any issue!!!" Empyrean had been out for like two weeks when it happened, and we already had to deal with that kind of people?

And on the topic of the bad names.. A friend and I play together during weekends, and roughly.. I want to say twice a month (so roughly 1 every 12 hour), some idiot has a nazi-related PSN or named their companions something like it. And some of them use deep cuts of horrifying references

I live in Denmark (also why I know more references, as it's a huge focus for history studies here), so maybe time zones matters - I wouldn't know. But I'll straight-up leave a squad when I see it and write a report as the people who name themselves such things shouldn't be allowed to use the online services.

 

Yikes! I do wonder of it's a region thing as you mentioned Denmark. West coast US player here. I hate AFKers with a passion; I'm very easy going but they make my blood boil.

Anyways man, good luck out there! For me I can't not compare it to multi player games I've played in the past and it's by comparison a wonderland. Definitely not perfect though.

[(PSN)Zero_029]

People will be people. Some folks really just don't get that the entirety of the game dies not require the Meta.

The Meta is just that. The Meta build, it makes S#&$ easier but it is 100% optional.

Folks soloing Triodolons, Orbs, ESO, Arbitrations, & etc without using the Meta proves that.

I will never get the: "Use the meta so you finish the mission as fast as possible a then you're done." Mentality...so I should rush so I can stand idle in my Orbiter & complain about having nothing to do?"

Toxicity is EVERYWHERE in all games.

But truth be told the majority of Warframe's community across all platforms isn't that bad.

If you say...compare Warframe's community to FF14s (this one pains me to admit but my god it's gotten rancid), Destiny's, Fallout 76's...you'll see this community in an entirely new light/see this community as a Sanctuary.

[Shiki-Chan-Desu]

People are lying to each other when they claim that Warframe community is great.

This community is hardly different from community of PvP games because of how much people attack one another for differing builds and opinions.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

12 hours ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

My 2k plus hours and ive seen very little toxicity outside the forms. Not saying what you've described didn't happen. But also If you're constantly matchmaking with these.people it may say something about you the universe always brings you Round people who are similar to you 

 

12 hours ago, (PS4)DeZaruu said:

Fascinating.

So since I see it - and you don't - it's possible without me knowing, I somehow AFK all the time, I black out and insult strangers and my PSN "DeZaruu" is an awful reference - along with Sweetah, my Smeeta Kavat?

Well, I'll be damned huh

That's my way of telling you; no

Would it help if I pointed out that I also don't see much in-game toxicity between players? Yeah I've run into a few jerks, but the operative word there, is "few". Most people are more than willing to be helpful and share tips and techniques with others when asked. 

My smeeta is called Mr Smee. 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

14 hours ago, (PS4)DeZaruu said:

However, I'll bring up THE WORST situation I've run into and why I only solo Empyrean...

I joined a random squad for Emprean. I've maxed my own Railjack and just need some avionics, so I relax and join squads since I assumed Veil and to some extent late Saturn was at least dedicated people.

I didn't notice anything unusual, I was doing my AW thing, when the host said "help on ship", I returned and helped, noticed he was at the far back at the forge - not moving at all, but spawned some specters. I went out agian. and saw he died - thought to myself "he is AFK isn't he..."

I returned when everything in the mission was done, and he was dead in the exact same spot I saw him, not said a single word since "help on ship", his specters ran about.

We waited for him to return and get us to a dojo. 10min passed; one guy left, I grew impatient and made it clear in chat; if you're not back soon, I'll blow up your Railjack."

20min went by total, and  the third guy who still remained was also just waiting at navigation, we both knew he was not coming back to send us to the dojo and I said "I'm sorry, but if we don't get our rewards as we're forced to quit - he ain't getting ****."

I blew up his Railjack by finding small turrets around, slamming it into stuff and have boarding parties go wild.

I regret nothing and I'll never forget that happened.

So that's why I get annoyed when people tell me "Oh the community is amazing, never had any issue!!!" Empyrean had been out for like two weeks when it happened, and we already had to deal with that kind of people?

 

10 hours ago, (PS4)death404 said:

Yikes! I do wonder of it's a region thing as you mentioned Denmark. West coast US player here. I hate AFKers with a passion; I'm very easy going but they make my blood boil.

Anyways man, good luck out there! For me I can't not compare it to multi player games I've played in the past and it's by comparison a wonderland. Definitely not perfect though.

I've been in too many Railjack Missions where someone glitched out and was unable to play. Not "unwilling", not "sorry guys brb", not afk. Unable. Sometimes that also includes being unable to access the chat interface. 

I doubt that anyone who's run a fair number of missions hasn't had that happen to them at some point, and the 3 of us are on PS4 so we're definitely all on the same build. 

I've been in several missions where the host had to bail at the end, to force a host migration in the hopes of the rest of the squad being able to get the rewards. 

There's no evidence that the host in that example behaved in a toxic manner, but there is clear evidence that one player acted in an attempt to spite another. That's toxic AF. 

[(PSN)DeZaruu]

24 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

 

I've been in too many Railjack Missions where someone glitched out and was unable to play. Not "unwilling", not "sorry guys brb", not afk. Unable. Sometimes that also includes being unable to access the chat interface. 

I doubt that anyone who's run a fair number of missions hasn't had that happen to them at some point, and the 3 of us are on PS4 so we're definitely all on the same build. 

I've been in several missions where the host had to bail at the end, to force a host migration in the hopes of the rest of the squad being able to get the rewards. 

There's no evidence that the host in that example behaved in a toxic manner, but there is clear evidence that one player acted in an attempt to spite another. That's toxic AF. 

Yes, because I too stay in a game where I'm unable to do anything, a total lock-down, for 30 min (10+20min, +/-5min) - if that happens, I give it maybe a minute to see if the network has issues, but then I close the game (which automatically WILL cause the player (in this case host) to leave). Attempt to rejoin if the squad is still avaiable when I'm back in.

You can keep making up excuses and blame me, doesn't make it right

Because it doesn't happen to you, doesn't make it my fault - this thread is the first time I've had people attack/blame my behaviour in-game, as on the PS4 Market I'm in good standing as I help new people, and often stay for fissures to help people get full sets as I've an excessive amount of relics.

This thread alone proves the ignorance of certain people (not all, I've to say the PC community seems kinder based on past questions I've had and being willing to explain things). "Doesn't happen to me, gotta be a problem with you."

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

27 minutes ago, (PS4)DeZaruu said:

Yes, because I too stay in a game where I'm unable to do anything, a total lock-down, for 30 min (10+20min, +/-5min)

Says the guy who stayed in the mission for so long, after it became apparent that there was nothing that he could do? 

Yeah seems legit. /s

30 minutes ago, (PS4)DeZaruu said:

You can keep making up excuses and blame me, doesn't make it right

You are currently making an excuse in an attempt to justify your own toxic behaviour. You are trying to blame it on someone else being afk. You decided that in spite of the game having built in systems to punish afk players, that you would personally punish them. 

That's on you, mate. 

30 minutes ago, (PS4)DeZaruu said:

Because it doesn't happen to you, doesn't make it my fault - this thread is the first time I've had people attack/blame my behaviour in-game, as on the PS4 Market I'm in good standing as I help new people, and often stay for fissures to help people get full sets as I've an excessive amount of relics.

Uh I said that I have experienced glitches and been in games with glitched players. I've lost out repeatedly. 

So it has happened to me. 

Not once have I decided that wrecking the railjack was the best course of action. Most of the time it was a case of "*sigh* guess I'll abort then" 

Saying that you're not responsible for your choice of actions "because I'm nice at other times", doesn't work. 

45 minutes ago, (PS4)DeZaruu said:

This thread alone proves the ignorance of certain people (not all, I've to say the PC community seems kinder based on past questions I've had and being willing to explain things). "Doesn't happen to me, gotta be a problem with you."

Yes the thread and comments do prove that some players act in a toxic manner, and that they sometimes refuse to believe that they are a part of the problem, which is a form of ignorance. 

Good luck with the problems you are facing, Tenno. 

 

[KnightOwl_]

What in Gods green earth do you need meta anything in warframe for?  Besides some poop sock 4 hour unsupported survival run or something?  So you get done a whole 5 seconds faster?  

[(PSN)chubbslawson]

There is way more toxicity in the forums then I’ve ever come across in the game