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Rebalancing: Warframes: Mag (10.2.1)


NanoDecerto
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Alright, I have been playing a good bit of mobile defense recently as I am only a few weapons short of essentially 100%'ing Warframe in it's current state. I have noticed a large influx of Mags. I get it, there is a new prime and people are leveling a new frame. I leveled her up too. 

After watching he be played and playing her quite a bit myself, I believe she needs a tad of a rework. I feel she has diverged from her in game description of being an "expert of enemy manipulation", to a standard not-so-glass cannon.

 

Ability 1: Pull

Problem: Now pull was a great utility skill. Now, it is the cheapest room clear in the game. The skill does 100 damage over 10m at base and  300 damage over 25m at max rank, but even a new player will get enough Pull mods to level it up early on. That is without Focus as well. The cone even makes it wide enough to clear a room and it even kills things blocked by terrain and even some enemies behind you! You don't even have to see an enemy to kill it. It is also a much more effective way of damaging an enemy than shield polarization. It is the cost as Frost's freeze and ember's fireball, which is absurd. Finally, all the enemies that don't die, don't even get pulled into mag, they get thrown off to who knows where, rendering it useful as a stun, but near the utility it used to have.

 

Suggestion: Take pull back to it's previous incarnation. I like the idea of the cone, but the range of the cone should be nerfed and the damage should be massively reduced (50 or below) as it would then make the skill more of a utility that could be combined with a good shotgun shot or a miter for some multikills. So smaller cone, much less damage, pull TO mag, not away for more utility, less OP map clearing.

 

 

Ability 2: Shield Polarize

Problem: This ability isn't too bad, but it is sadly inferior to pull in most ways. It too, might seem a little out of place again for a control frame to be doing that big AoE damage. Sadly, the only enemy it doesn't do the big damage too is the one that has a lot of shields (The one it's used on).

 

Suggestion:Keep this ability. Perhaps a little more shield drain and a little less big damage, yet again.

 

 

Ability 3: Bullet Attractor

Problem: Great ability. This is currently the only real "control" ability Mag has right now, in my opinion. It is large enough to block off a hallway of enemies and can really get those heavies off your back. The damage multiplier is nice sometimes, and annoying when you are using it as a wall. The explosion is nice, but I am not sure of its necessity. It is already a solid wall and a boss run ability, and the explosion may be a not too much for the energy cost.

 

Suggestion: Possibly tone down the size, as it is massive and perhaps reduce explosion damage / range or remove explosion.

 

 

Ability 4: Crush

Problem: Very nice on lower level defense and mobile defense, but like other ultimates, the lack of armor piercing and the exponentially growing armor renders it unnecessary at high levels. Even a control frame needs a damaging room clear, especially one as light on armor as Mag. Really good for those tight spots, immobilizes enemies for allies to shoot at and has a very nice range.

 

Suggestion: Change damage type to some sort of armor piercing or ignore. It makes mag very viable on Mobile Defense runs even if she does not have Pull. Worth the energy.

 

 

Conclusion: Overall needs a bit of a nerf and a shift of focus from massive crown damage to massive crowd control. The idea of manipulation is much more entertaining than a "glass cannon" that has shields for days. In her current state, just add Quick Thinking and Rage so she doesn't die and she can deal out an excessive amount of damage.

 

I will be doing this type of analysis for most if not all frames and eventually make a thread where I simply link ALL of them. Keep in mind, these are my opinions on how the game should be rebalanced, not a demand.

Edit: Changed comments on Crush.

Edited by NanoDecerto
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I strangely disagree with almost all your assertions...

 

As is, pull may be ridiculously op in early game, but late game its just fun and good CC, not that strong damage wise. bringing back the pull-to-caster effect makes it unusable against ancients because of toxic ones, and finishers make it difficult to use it and then melee, which was what I liked to do, without dying quickly. I like the new effect because it is better CC, even if less controllable. 

 

shield polarize should stay as is, and possibly be buffed to 100% shield recovery at max. (dont think it recovers to 100%, does it? I dont pay that much attention to the recovery amount)

 

bullet attractor needs to be modified somehow to be usable defensively I think, but otherwise its good. Currently, I'm able to use it to cover myself somewhat, if the enemy doesnt die too quickly, which is perfect. Nerfing the size means it block less incoming fire. The damage from the collapse I've never really noticed too much. I don't boss much, where this shines the most. 

 

Crush needs work. it's a cool but pull totally tops it right now, and thats more because crush is UP than because pull is OP (if you disregard pull being a 1st ability)

 

Personally I think if Mag had an epic 'Push' for her 4th, it'd be nicer, since it fits more with her CC ability. Either that or make enemies who walk into Crush after cast be affected. or let mag move after casting, for a temporary CC effect... idk, lots of ideas for Crush, but it needs work. It's just a magnetic version of Avalanche, which is the worst 4th. 

Edited by Scheifen
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Alright, I have been playing a good bit of mobile defense recently as I am only a few weapons short of essentially 100%'ing Warframe in it's current state. I have noticed a large influx of Mags. I get it, there is a new prime and people are leveling a new frame. I leveled her up too. 

After watching he be played and playing her quite a bit myself, I believe she needs a tad of a rework. I feel she has diverged from her in game description of being an "expert of enemy manipulation", to a standard not-so-glass cannon.

 

Ability 1: Pull

Problem: Now pull was a great utility skill. Now, it is the cheapest room clear in the game. The skill does 100 damage over 10m at base and  300 damage over 25m at max rank, but even a new player will get enough Pull mods to level it up early on. That is without Focus as well. The cone even makes it wide enough to clear a room and it even kills things blocked by terrain and even some enemies behind you! You don't even have to see an enemy to kill it. It is also a much more effective way of damaging an enemy than shield polarization. It is the cost as Frost's freeze and ember's fireball, which is absurd. Finally, all the enemies that don't die, don't even get pulled into mag, they get thrown off to who knows where, rendering it useful as a stun, but near the utility it used to have.

 

Suggestion: Take pull back to it's previous incarnation. I like the idea of the cone, but the range of the cone should be nerfed and the damage should be massively reduced (50 or below) as it would then make the skill more of a utility that could be combined with a good shotgun shot or a miter for some multikills. So smaller cone, much less damage, pull TO mag, not away for more utility, less OP map clearing.

 

 

Ability 2: Shield Polarize

Problem: This ability isn't too bad, but it is sadly inferior to pull in most ways. It too, might seem a little out of place again for a control frame to be doing that big AoE damage. Sadly, the only enemy it doesn't do the big damage too is the one that has a lot of shields (The one it's used on).

 

Suggestion:Keep this ability. Perhaps a little more shield drain and a little less big damage, yet again.

 

 

Ability 3: Bullet Attractor

Problem: Great ability. This is currently the only real "control" ability Mag has right now, in my opinion. It is large enough to block off a hallway of enemies and can really get those heavies off your back. The damage multiplier is nice sometimes, and annoying when you are using it as a wall. The explosion is nice, but I am not sure of its necessity. It is already a solid wall and a boss run ability, and the explosion may be a not too much for the energy cost.

 

Suggestion: Possibly tone down the size, as it is massive and perhaps reduce explosion damage / range or remove explosion.

 

 

Ability 4: Crush

Problem: None. Even a control frame needs a damaging room clear, especially one as light on armor as Mag. Really good for those tight spots, immobilizes enemies for allies to shoot at and has a very nice range.

 

Suggestion: Keep this ability as it is. It makes mag very viable on Mobile Defense runs even if she does not have Pull. Worth the energy.

 

 

Conclusion: Overall needs a bit of a nerf and a shift of focus from massive crown damage to massive crowd control. The idea of manipulation is much more entertaining than a "glass cannon" that has shields for days. In her current state, just add Quick Thinking and Rage so she doesn't die and she can deal out an excessive amount of damage.

 

I will be doing this type of analysis for most if not all frames and eventually make a thread where I simply link ALL of them. Keep in mind, these are my opinions on how the game should be rebalanced, not a demand.

her crush needs to be re-worked. its sad how  players here  and on youtube  take crush out of their builds  and only rely on pull.

 

at least make it armor ignore,

 

her other abilites are fine where they are except pull which should go back to 2.0 where it was more meant for utility not a  clear me room button.

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I strangely disagree with almost all your assertions...

 

As is, pull may be ridiculously op in early game, but late game its just fun and good CC, not that strong damage wise. bringing back the pull-to-caster effect makes it unusable against ancients because of toxic ones, and finishers make it difficult to use it and then melee, which was what I liked to do, without dying quickly. I like the new effect because it is better CC, even if less controllable. 

 

shield polarize should stay as is, and possibly be buffed to 100% shield recovery at max. (dont think it recovers to 100%, does it? I dont pay that much attention to the recovery amount)

 

bullet attractor needs to be modified somehow to be usable defensively I think, but otherwise its good. Currently, I'm able to use it to cover myself somewhat, if the enemy doesnt die too quickly, which is perfect. Nerfing the size means it block less incoming fire. The damage from the collapse I've never really noticed too much. I don't boss much, where this shines the most. 

 

Crush needs work. it's a cool but pull totally tops it right now, and thats more because crush is UP than because pull is OP (if you disregard pull being a 1st ability)

 

Personally I think if Mag had an epic 'Push' for her 4th, it'd be nicer, since it fits more with her CC ability. Either that or make enemies who walk into Crush affected. or let mag move after casting, for a temporary CC effect... idk, lots of ideas for Crush, but it needs work. 

shield polarize does  do 100 percent.

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i also strangely disagree with those propositions... and as for pull whenever i use mine they DO end up at my feet so i dont know how you manage for them not getting ragdolled to your feet. and as for the previous version of pull i think the fact it could be used on ally is pretty much the only point it had better then current one. Also comparing pull to deficient 1st abilities like fireball and freeze to say that it is OP is kinda bad since it is generally accepted that fireball and freeze are for now useless abilities because they do next to no damage.

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i also strangely disagree with those propositions... and as for pull whenever i use mine they DO end up at my feet so i dont know how you manage for them not getting ragdolled to your feet. and as for the previous version of pull i think the fact it could be used on ally is pretty much the only point it had better then current one. Also comparing pull to deficient 1st abilities like fireball and freeze to say that it is OP is kinda bad since it is generally accepted that fireball and freeze are for now useless abilities because they do next to no damage.

I should point out I meant the first buff of pull should be brought back, where it was a seemingly smaller cone of enemies brought straight to your feet with little damage inflicted. The new pull does throw enemies up rather than to you. And to say pull is not overpowered is a bit of a defensive statement. A room clear for 25 energy is massively overpowered. No other first ability can compare. If the game is built around that type of damage on a first ability, the game would become far too easy, and difficulty is already a bit lacking.

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Dial Pull back to its previous version, but give its damage type to Crush. Perhaps add a cripple or armor-reduction debuff to Crushed enemies. 

 

The description of Mag in loading screens states that "mastering Mag gives her a devastating attack that can turn the tide of any battle"; I don't think they were referring to Pull when they said "mastering", and Crush is only "devastating" to the caster. It needs love, and Pull honestly doesn't need the damage.

 

Besides that, I've always envisioned Mag as the kind of frame who turns enemy advantages against them. You got shields? They left to kill your buddies. You got guns? They're killing you. The current iterations of SP and BA do that very well and could stay as is... excepting that pointless explosion at the end of BA.

 

Ability 4: Crush

Suggestion: Keep this ability as it is. It makes mag very viable on Mobile Defense runs even if she does not have Pull. Worth the energy.

 

Clearly someone hasn't gotten Mag to cap.

Edited by Archwizard
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I should point out I meant the first buff of pull should be brought back, where it was a seemingly smaller cone of enemies brought straight to your feet with little damage inflicted. The new pull does throw enemies up rather than to you. And to say pull is not overpowered is a bit of a defensive statement. A room clear for 25 energy is massively overpowered. No other first ability can compare. If the game is built around that type of damage on a first ability, the game would become far too easy, and difficulty is already a bit lacking.

 

I think you slightly misunderstood me. i never meant that pull isnt a tad over power i just meant that comparing it to underpower skills was obviously gonna make any skill WAY overpower. and pull once around lvl 30-50 doesnt kill much of anything. Also the range to clear a whole room requires a maxed stretch which no new players would have

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Dial Pull back to its previous version, but give its damage type to Crush. Perhaps add a cripple or armor-reduction debuff to Crushed enemies. 

 

The description of Mag in loading screens states that "mastering Mag gives her a devastating attack that can turn the tide of any battle"; I don't think they were referring to Pull when they said "mastering", and Crush is only "devastating" to the caster. It needs love, and Pull honestly doesn't need the damage.

 
 

 

Clearly someone hasn't gotten Mag to cap.

Yeah I have, and I realize now (through more testing) that it may need armor piercing / physics impact damage. Probably gonna edit that in.

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I'm not sure Pull has to go back to its previous form or maybe just have its current mechanics tweaked by adding a cone. As for damage, while Pull is only a "room clear" in lower levels I generally use it for utility so I wouldn't mind seeing it toned down.

Shield Polarize is finally in a good spot where it's useful and scales well on higher levels so it should stay the way it us. Granted, it's useless against Infested but Mag isn't the best frame to use against them anyway.

Instead of getting rid of Bullet Attractor's explosion I would have it stun/ragdoll enemies caught inside or right near the sphere. I would also scale the damage based on the HP pool of the target it was used on. This would give more of an incentive to use it on things other than bosses.

Crush I agree on, it does need armor ignore. I know Armor 2.0 is on the way so whatever damage type is chosen for it should affect all targets equally.

Edited by NDroid
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You want to nerf mag's pull to an even worse state than pull V2?? When Mag is suffering from low energy, pull is the only thing that can save her by disabling the enemies in front of her. Narrowing the cone will cause some problems. Esp if she doesn't run away in time. the huge crowd brought to her feet will not wait to destroy her.

 

The only kind of nerf I can tolerate is some kind of duration for the skill. E.g. affected enemies have a travel time towards the mini vortex mag created.

She could then run about after casting it while enemies move towards the vortex (affected enemies only I repeat) and can thus avoid toxic ancients but cannot do CC straightwaway.

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