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Empyrean: Ivara Prime 27.0.12 + 27.0.12.1


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16 hours ago, Maka.Bones said:

I'm sorry for whining, but I still can't enjoy Railjack after the Cryo weapon nerfs. 

I can't enjoy raljack/space pew pew, with this slow AF current "time spent per kill... it might be fun for Pablo, but it sure as hell isn't fun for me. 

 

Please buff the railjack weapons. And if you guys want a slower/chill game mode, then you could accomplish that by ACTUALLY GIVING US A REAL & FUNCTIONAL CLOAK which would allow players to STAY invisible, and snipe enemies from far away... or to just cruise around, and take their time killing enemies. 

And Void hole/munitions vortex also exists btw. But that's not as fun for me, as efficient "space pew pew" and railjack dogfights

 

P.S. ILY Pablo/RazorCupcake, I just like a different feel for fighter dogfights. 

My man have you not tried apocs? Or do you just not have most of the turret buffing avionics?

 

You can kill 3-4 fighters before you burn out... with the zetkis....

 

cryos were never the only option, but apocs were made nasty now.

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15 hours ago, Aerohardt said:
  1. Cloudwalker vs. Cloudwalker with Sprint Active (Also comparing different sprint speeds): 0:00 --> When having sprint toggled on, or holding it right before cloud walker is activated, you are supposed to be able to move much faster in Cloudwalker. This is no longer true after update 27.0.12. Instead you remain the same speed regardless of whether you have sprint active or have a higher sprint value. I personally really like having Wukong's Cloudwalker be able to go very fast and I don't think it's particularly ridiculous as you have to mod for it like any other speed-based Warframe.

The claim in the patch notes is that this was a bug fix. This is obviously not the case, but that is what made it into the patch notes.

If this isn't fixed, Wukong's only niche is dead. Cloud Walker being a flat and unscalable 30 m/s regardless of whether you're sprinting at 10 m/s or 20 just reinforces his position as a frame that's good for beginners but doesn't scale anywhere. And, you know, stabs the only fun he provided right in the face.

Edited by CopperBezel
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30 minutes ago, ThatRoomba said:

Mój człowieku, czy nie próbowałeś apocs? A może po prostu nie masz większości awioniki wzmacniającej wieżę?

 

Możesz zabić 3-4 myśliwców, zanim wypalisz się ... zetkis ...

 

krio nigdy nie były jedyną opcją, ale apoki były teraz paskudne.

True. Apoc.
 

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I'm going to leave few words for DE. I think someone needs to write them. 

 

Thank you so much for the game you developed and the effort you made to this point. Sometimes we have good days and really bad ones. But this community doesn't want warframe to go away or die being forgotten. There are things that we want and sometimes we are way too entitled demanding top quality. During the years we had a game that is outstanding and one of the best experiences we had in the grind F2P genre. 

Destiny 2 and the other game Anthem are nowhere near the quality of Warframe. It has the spirit of many games and the great game play at the stature of Titan Fall 2. Yes your quality arrived at the quality of Respawn and many other developers out there that are AAA. Warframe was build over trial and error. Warframe was build over long testing and recommendation by the community. It is why we grew up with it and we had an exciting ride of jokes, vines, memes and anecdotes with it. 

This is not a love letter but a recognition to motivate you guys go further with this project. It should not end because the quality is there. The items, enemies, the moba rpg, the mods, the grinding and the social aspects of it constructed a community of players that grew bigger over time. We are not perfect and sometimes we throw loaded words to your job and commitment. We got used to great quality and I'm sure that we are going to have it again with Empyrean. Please believe in it because Empyrean is a great leap. Every step brings risks and of course sacrifices. 

DE, WE CARE for the game. WE like the game and we will continue investing time and money in it because is a worthy experience like no other. This time I came here to not critique or demand or write love letters out of the mouth of a random user. I came here to say thank you for all what you have done with the franchise and the evolution of such game. I believe in it as many others do. 

 

The community will NOT let Warframe die. We think that such game IS a love letter for the players, a letter that deserves MANY pages. 

Edited by Felsagger
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FIX
Your
BUGGED OUT
Game mode.
This being Railjack
~ Ivara having any weapon she fires bring her out of prowl regardless if they are silent or not (and I ALWAYS pack hushed / supressed weapons to a railjack).
~ MANY MANY graphical glitches happening including the black-out wall of doom if someone is side-gunner.
~ Artillery doing RED crits on a crew-ship (I see the number pop up) yet not doing ANY damage... at all.
~ ...and can we talk damage scaling.  REALLY REALLY talk I mean?  You know the individual in question who is DIRECTLY resonsible for this.
~ STOP NERFING!  I mean stop it completely.  EVERYTHING in this [Censored] glitched out mess of a game mode is a bullet sponge.  Damage / elemental types do not seem to matter at all, so if that IS the case, stop nerfing us and buffing the enemies.

Thank you in advance but this is getting intollerable.

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Shemarria, I understand your frustration. We have twice the issues in PS4. We are rowing through hell. But look at their last devstream and their prime time. These people are simply depressed and frustrated. We are going way too hard on them. Lets be patient for a bit and play other games until this one gets fixed. 

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We've now had a weekend to let all of this settle, and I think it's time to review.

 

The good is that we now get rewards, there's a reason to do the anomaly rather than punch out if nothing drops for the Shedu, and it seems like the component drops are actually commons now.  The first item is finally allowing the systems of railjack to work together.  The second is finally implementing a system other than RNG grind, which is a huge first step.  The third is for the Shedu to actually be usable, because running a half dozen missions and getting 4 pieces (2 unique, 2 duplicates) means the mediocre performance felt like a double punishment.

 

Now....what still remains.

  1. Railjack isn't rewarding.  There are 4 pieces of content which matter; the Pennant, Quellor, Shedu, and cosmetics (scenes and ephemera).  Everything else is internal to this game mode, so might as well not exist.
  2. Powers being rewarded as random drops from enemy types are still backwards.  I thought you learned your lessons way back before fusion cores, where Loki couldn't get invisibility until deep into the game.  I guess not.
  3. Railjack enemies are not fun.  I've had multiple instances now where enemies literally spawned behind me, despite not having moved forwards into the mission.  They simply spawn and swarm, which is about as brain dead as possible.  
  4. Speaking of enemies, the scaling is garbage.  Your enemies when boarding are the spongiest bullet sponges.  I can waste 8 shots on a single enemy, doing 3-5k damage, without killing them.  That's with a charge Opticor Vandal blast to the face, so we're effectively at about 14 shots worth of damage.  That isn't a challenge, or fun.  It's scaling which makes either an ability or running past enemies the only real option.  New enemy types simply being a pallet swap of old with buffed stats is not content, it's just sad.
  5. Bugs.  The "fix" to the black segments while in turrets did not work.  The random spawning into nowhere is still a problem.  The "fix" to make projectiles not home in on archwings did not work.  The "fix" to make weapons systems better is an absolute joke.  Basically, the only fixes I acknowledge at this point as being good are related to decreasing the window of random rolls on gear and making sure everyone gets drops.  Otherwise, it's a royal crap show.
  6. Content.  I have no better way to put this, but you have very little.  Apoc, Cryophon, Carcinnox, Photor, Pulsar, Galvarc, smart missiles, and dumb missiles.  This is less weaponry than the amount of shotguns in the game.  Likewise, Nightwave is broken again.  Once you hit 30+30 you can get nothing more.  As of this week that was possible, so the extended intermission is now the longest section of the series given that there's still no end in sight.  It kind of seems like you bit off way too much, released at a theoretical minimum deliverable level, and demonstrated that the ambitious promises were detrimental to your credibility.  It might be time to either expand staff, contract promises, or maybe just demonstrate customer feedback is taken in for things less than a complete tragedy.

 

What do we need?  

  1. Instead of the year of the New War let's use the year as a gigantic tease.  Incorporate a few sentient outposts, give us a means to obtain Umbral Forma, and give us some Umbral mods which function like the corrupted ones.  This will bring people back by having build-up, without the need for an event.
  2. Use this year to bug fix while doing events.  This is dead simple, just have infested style invasions with sentient units.  Make these events drop rarer mods, acolyte style.  Use the extra resources freed up to stomp bugs and fix the Railjack/Lich systems so they aren't painful and unrewarding grind.  Extend Railjack introduction through the summer months with Corpus and Infested missions, but only adding bits and pieces that work.  This will prevent another Grineer style content glut amounting to disappoint from being half baked.
  3. Bug fix.  Pretty obvious here, but this is a beta which often barely works as an alpha.  You only have servers for the open worlds and reward checks, so can we at least have a game that allows for more than three missions in a row not succumbing to game breaking bugs?

 

I want to list more, but at this point there are 18 pages of feedback, and more than 100 since Railjack became a thing.  That's amazingly bad...and it doesn't seem to be abating with simple number tweaks.

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1 hour ago, master_of_destiny said:

 

  1. Railjack isn't rewarding.  There are 4 pieces of content which matter; the Pennant, Quellor, Shedu, and cosmetics (scenes and ephemera).  Everything else is internal to this game mode, so might as well not exist.

I disagree with you on this.

Railjack is rewarding insofar as it rewards you content related to the game mode more than anything else. To complain that it isnt rewarding when we only have part of it implemented is also a tad ridiculous. 

Once it is fully rolled out and we get a firmer grasp on what kind of content they plan on including as we move forward is much more reasonable.

It takes time to develop deep content and knocking a new gamemode for not having much is not very fair. 

 

Personally i think railjack is really fun and i am excited to see where it goes. Bringing in capitalships and a meaningful way to fight your kuva lich from within the content would be awesome.

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On 2020-01-23 at 7:41 AM, Melanholic7 said:

Any fixes for Titania, for her 4,when she auto-fly forward while in sprint mode? without pressing a W..

(check chat for the idea,comparing to archwing which works fine.)

 

I actually liked that feature... gives my "W" finger some rest

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4 hours ago, Leqesai said:

I disagree with you on this.

Railjack is rewarding insofar as it rewards you content related to the game mode more than anything else. To complain that it isnt rewarding when we only have part of it implemented is also a tad ridiculous. 

Once it is fully rolled out and we get a firmer grasp on what kind of content they plan on including as we move forward is much more reasonable.

It takes time to develop deep content and knocking a new gamemode for not having much is not very fair. 

 

Personally i think railjack is really fun and i am excited to see where it goes. Bringing in capitalships and a meaningful way to fight your kuva lich from within the content would be awesome.

Let me ask to put everything into context, and I'll explain my statements.

 

Are defenses, exterminates, mobile defenses, spies, crossfires, captures, and other star chart game modes rewarding?  Yes.  Items you get in any of those modes can cross over to other content, and reward you.

Is Cephalon Simaris rewarding?  Yes.  There's some content, blueprints, and access to some cosmetics.  Despite the scanning grind, it has content you may want access to.

Is grinding archwing rewarding?  This is a tougher answer.  Before PoE I'd have said no.  After PoE, marginally.  After the launcher was reusable and didn't require crafting constantly, it's a good mode of transport and reasonably rewarding.

Are Arbitrations, Sorties, ESO/SO, and Eidolon hunts rewarding?  Yep.  These vary as to degree, but the highest level stuff drops from them.  It's a grind against reward very often, but some decent stuff exist.

 

Are connclave and Lunaro rewarding?  Nope.  The only thing they reward is a few mods, stuff to use in them, and cosmetics.  They only reward if the cosmetics cannot be purchased any other way...oh wait, this is why "universal" rewards don't include conclave....sigh.

Are K-Drives rewarding?  Nope.  Grinding out the content lets you get mods to grind better, and the components aren't better in any way despite the costs.  K-Drives are a bad joke, unless you love that customization of an objectively worse method of transport.

Is Railjack rewarding?  Let's remove the content that is only used to better Railjacks.  No Avionics, the resources aren't used elsewhere yet, the salvage is only for railjacks, and the only remaining bits are the intrinsics boosts at high levels which monkey with archwings and the aforementioned 4 pieces of content.  The reward is only useful in that it makes it easier to grind railjack.  Oh boy, I want to have another situation like archwing was for years and call it railjack like I want to have to grind another 5000 mutagen samples.  

 

If it isn't clear, whether you like railjack or not, it does not matter.  You'll note that I never suggested the game mode sucked, or even that I didn't think anyone could enjoy it.  If you get the munitions vortex or void hole avionics it's a relative walk in the park to play the game by cheesing the systems.  A decent crew can make even a terrible ship work mostly.  Moreover, the ability to act like a giant battering ram is good stupid fun.

What I have a problem with is the release.  Yes, there's only one faction right now.  So if there's only one, why do we stretch content all the way to Proxima Veil?  Why did they release 3 tiers of weapons?  Why did all of the new enemies have stupidly huge health and armor pools, such that they exemplify the worst sponges in the entire game?  Why did they release a mode touting archwing integration when literally any archwing needs invincibility to survive?  Why do they lock basic functions of the ship behind a grind wall, and one with a simple doubling function for each level such that each level would have to provide 100% better rewards than all of the rest combined to justify the grind (read, level 8 seems to be the sweet spot to stop caring)?  Why not push Railjack into 2020, get the Lich system to work as more than a punishing grind, and simply suggest that Railjack would come 1st quarter 2020 after some intensive focus testing (rather than pushing it out around a media hype awards show when it was stillborn at best)?

Again, Railjack has immense potential.  It's a lot like the potential of archwing and arch-gun deployers.  Yeah, arch-guns are bad primaries that lock you out of other weapons and don't do enough damage to match their immensely limiting ammo.  Despite that, about a year later they aren't touched.  Potential is not a good delivery, it's being able to pretend that what we got will eventually be what was promised.  I can't give that to DE any more.  I'd prefer Railjack to replace half its resources with rares from the star chart (Hexenon ringing bells?) and instead of MK I-III they'd have introduced long and short range variants of weapons and elements to give us more choice.  No Veil, because Corpus and infested would flesh out the lower tiers of content before the veil opened up.  This would in-turn require resources and item drops to be better.  I'm thinking those arbitration arcanes would be a great rare reward, and mean that arbitrations and railjack could offer parallel paths to get content.

Instead we got another mode where the extremely rare Umbra Forma is the only content which feeds back into the game.  The other stuff is a one and done MR source, or at best decent.  That's a disappointment, and is not excusable because "more is comming soom(TM)."

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4 hours ago, master_of_destiny said:

Let me ask to put everything into context, and I'll explain my statements.

 

Are defenses, exterminates, mobile defenses, spies, crossfires, captures, and other star chart game modes rewarding?  Yes.  Items you get in any of those modes can cross over to other content, and reward you.

Is Cephalon Simaris rewarding?  Yes.  There's some content, blueprints, and access to some cosmetics.  Despite the scanning grind, it has content you may want access to.

Is grinding archwing rewarding?  This is a tougher answer.  Before PoE I'd have said no.  After PoE, marginally.  After the launcher was reusable and didn't require crafting constantly, it's a good mode of transport and reasonably rewarding.

Are Arbitrations, Sorties, ESO/SO, and Eidolon hunts rewarding?  Yep.  These vary as to degree, but the highest level stuff drops from them.  It's a grind against reward very often, but some decent stuff exist.

 

Are connclave and Lunaro rewarding?  Nope.  The only thing they reward is a few mods, stuff to use in them, and cosmetics.  They only reward if the cosmetics cannot be purchased any other way...oh wait, this is why "universal" rewards don't include conclave....sigh.

Are K-Drives rewarding?  Nope.  Grinding out the content lets you get mods to grind better, and the components aren't better in any way despite the costs.  K-Drives are a bad joke, unless you love that customization of an objectively worse method of transport.

Is Railjack rewarding?  Let's remove the content that is only used to better Railjacks.  No Avionics, the resources aren't used elsewhere yet, the salvage is only for railjacks, and the only remaining bits are the intrinsics boosts at high levels which monkey with archwings and the aforementioned 4 pieces of content.  The reward is only useful in that it makes it easier to grind railjack.  Oh boy, I want to have another situation like archwing was for years and call it railjack like I want to have to grind another 5000 mutagen samples.  

 

If it isn't clear, whether you like railjack or not, it does not matter.  You'll note that I never suggested the game mode sucked, or even that I didn't think anyone could enjoy it.  If you get the munitions vortex or void hole avionics it's a relative walk in the park to play the game by cheesing the systems.  A decent crew can make even a terrible ship work mostly.  Moreover, the ability to act like a giant battering ram is good stupid fun.

What I have a problem with is the release.  Yes, there's only one faction right now.  So if there's only one, why do we stretch content all the way to Proxima Veil?  Why did they release 3 tiers of weapons?  Why did all of the new enemies have stupidly huge health and armor pools, such that they exemplify the worst sponges in the entire game?  Why did they release a mode touting archwing integration when literally any archwing needs invincibility to survive?  Why do they lock basic functions of the ship behind a grind wall, and one with a simple doubling function for each level such that each level would have to provide 100% better rewards than all of the rest combined to justify the grind (read, level 8 seems to be the sweet spot to stop caring)?  Why not push Railjack into 2020, get the Lich system to work as more than a punishing grind, and simply suggest that Railjack would come 1st quarter 2020 after some intensive focus testing (rather than pushing it out around a media hype awards show when it was stillborn at best)?

Again, Railjack has immense potential.  It's a lot like the potential of archwing and arch-gun deployers.  Yeah, arch-guns are bad primaries that lock you out of other weapons and don't do enough damage to match their immensely limiting ammo.  Despite that, about a year later they aren't touched.  Potential is not a good delivery, it's being able to pretend that what we got will eventually be what was promised.  I can't give that to DE any more.  I'd prefer Railjack to replace half its resources with rares from the star chart (Hexenon ringing bells?) and instead of MK I-III they'd have introduced long and short range variants of weapons and elements to give us more choice.  No Veil, because Corpus and infested would flesh out the lower tiers of content before the veil opened up.  This would in-turn require resources and item drops to be better.  I'm thinking those arbitration arcanes would be a great rare reward, and mean that arbitrations and railjack could offer parallel paths to get content.

Instead we got another mode where the extremely rare Umbra Forma is the only content which feeds back into the game.  The other stuff is a one and done MR source, or at best decent.  That's a disappointment, and is not excusable because "more is comming soom(TM)."

Just a small comment to you, but...I see the current railjack release as a sort of bare bones version that they released to get everyone adjusted to railjack missions and the difficulty intended with them, that will get heavily adjusted like every other system DE has released. I can see where you are coming from though but i just think DE deserves more time to set things straight with railjack, and im not bashing you or anything im just...it cant be good for their motivation to just see huge posts of bashing their hard work(not saying yours is bashing, yours seems more like constructive criticisim!) but..you can see what im saying with this right? Thats just how i feel and i hope that DE manages to blow away my expectations and put to shame the current railjack release ^^ i mean...We all remember how far DE has come since warframes release right? Theyve done nothing but(admittably small or slowly at some points of the game) improve since then! i mean...remember this? 😛 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9GwNTfwOaU so...i ask everyone(not just you) for more patience for DE, theyll do their best i know it!

 

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1 hour ago, CiaranKriess said:

Just a small comment to you, but...I see the current railjack release as a sort of bare bones version that they released to get everyone adjusted to railjack missions and the difficulty intended with them, that will get heavily adjusted like every other system DE has released. I can see where you are coming from though but i just think DE deserves more time to set things straight with railjack, and im not bashing you or anything im just...it cant be good for their motivation to just see huge posts of bashing their hard work(not saying yours is bashing, yours seems more like constructive criticisim!) but..you can see what im saying with this right? Thats just how i feel and i hope that DE manages to blow away my expectations and put to shame the current railjack release ^^ i mean...We all remember how far DE has come since warframes release right? Theyve done nothing but(admittably small or slowly at some points of the game) improve since then! i mean...remember this? 😛 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9GwNTfwOaU so...i ask everyone(not just you) for more patience for DE, theyll do their best i know it!

 

I'm going to boil this down to a simple argument, through there's nuance.

The reason that people hated No Man's Sky, and whatever Peter Molyneux is working on, is not because of its release state alone.  The problem is that both of these entities spent months and years talking up what it was meant to be, released way too early, and the result is an abomination.  

 

Now, let's talk DE.  In late 2018 and 2019 it was made clear that people needed a roadmap, because the content releases were sparse.  They got the board.  The promises on the board were substantial.  What made it infinitely worse is that bi-weekly there was another stream hyping up the content.  Let's demonstrate an infested zaw, a sentient arm cannon, thumpers, and so much content literally years before they make it into the game.  Let's demonstrate Railjack working as a pick-up in Fortuna, flying into space, and being a feature in the middle of 2018 when it will release only at the very tail end of 2019.  Let's wait until nearly the end of 2019, and redefine what Railjack is so that we can make a 2019 release without most features but still claim a 2019 release.

What I want from DE is to stop promising things years in advance.  To stop focusing on the new hotness without making sure they have the resources, and to stop using the PC players as testing that should have been completed prior to any release, so the console releases aren't a complete dumpster fire.  

Where I have problems is that DE doesn't take kindly to anything but praise.  If you'd like to look back at the history it took a monumental effort to make companions worth while, because Carrier only vacuum meant literally no other companion was worth having.  I keep citing that because I remember being told that the community was fully of entitled manbabies, and that a "vocal minority" of hateful complaints were being ignored because DE knew better than us.  I remember the same happening with the economy on PoE, the beacons for Infested Alad V took about three years for a near silent decrease from 3 required to 1, and a bunch of other examples.

 

So here's my response.  There's plenty of people who want to offer praise to DE.  The survey of people following Steve's twitter indicate that amongst those dedicated enough to follow him there's a huge portion who believe that nothing is wrong with the game.  There are people willing to act as their marketing arm of DE for access to digital goods and require no compensation for DE itself.  There are people who create and sign over the rights to fan art, and those who create content for them so that they don't have to design transactions to pay the bills (tennogen).  Likewise, they've got plenty of people who will hate any change.  Frame reworks, Riven rebalances, and nerfing things into the ground so that perceived power creep is quashed will always raise ire.  What DE needs is people who are doing their beta testing, offering feedback with clear points to address, and they need to actually listen and address it.  

I've spent plenty of my time in this game trying to figure out what is wrong.  I don't scream that the game suck and I'm leaving, I've highlighted the specific failures and why they exist from the perspective of a player.  I've highlighted fixes which offer no less grinding, but will feel fair.  Years ago I suggested a token style system, based off of virtually every other MMO ever, that they've finally employed years later with the anomaly completion.  The issue is that after writing all of this I see somebody spamming twitter has more respect than I do.  Why do Universal Medallions, a rare drop, not work on Conclave?  It's highlighted by DE that one angry twitter message swayed them to keep the content inaccessible despite the fact that a rare drop would mean working toward conclave with universal medallions would require more game play than playing conclave. 

What happens after hundreds of pages of feedback on Railjack; we get number tweaks, changes to resources, and a thorough rebalance of damage which resulted in weaponry feeling worse.  The main positives are that loot drops are finally shared, but the result is that now Gian Point seems to be the only place you can go for a random squad because the ultra rare avionics drop there.  After a month the Railjack system is still broken, and it's because it was obviously released with a "fix it later" mentality that kills games.  DE really needs for people to call them out, explain this is unacceptable, and to highlight what is wrong.  If they cannot take that feedback, then close down the forums.  Move everything to twitter and ban anybody who says something you don't agree with.  In about six months the game will be as dead as Anthem or Fallout 76, where greed and incompetence due to executive meddling and not addressing feedback have effectively poisoned the well for years to come.  I hope DE isn't that stupid, because honestly this feedback is us doing QA for them.  If you don't listen to QA, don't be surprised when people just never come back to your game.  

By the way, how are Lawbreakers, Overwatch, and Artifact doing?  All of those games had a huge following before completely ignoring community feedback.  Oh.  They're all dead or dying you say.  The communities that supported them stopped engaging when the developers stopped listening.  The turns to free to play brought in people, but the monetization schemes often sank the player base because the grind associated with the "free" aspects made people leave once they found out that sub 10% chances on getting what you wanted meant some people could literally draw a hundred times without getting something they desired and the subsequent lack of rewarding feedback was toxic because the pay to skip punishing grinds was transparent.  Well color me impressed.  20 minutes for a 1.01% drop rate in ESO on the Braton Vandal blueprint and a 0.101% drop chance for avionics seems like a pretty much textbook example of the same fatal flaw.

 

Let's be DE.  0.101% drop chances mean 99.899% of not dropping.  Let's kill 1000 enemy units.  At 90 a pop, let's assume half are the unit we want.  That's 45 units, or 23 runs to get to 1000 units.  Now, the chance of not getting the avionic is 0.99899^1000 or 36.4%.  At about 20 minutes a run that's 7.67 hours or 7 hours 40 minutes.  For an entire work day of grinding a mission where you know a specific enemy type is in abundance you only have a 63.6% chance of getting an avionic.  If we're actually looking at elite exo cutter spawns it isn't 50% of units on a map, so 7+ hours of grind is an insanely optimistic view.  This is how you stretch lackluster content to the point of breaking, and without telling DE we aren't that stupid they'll keep doing it.  The Hema, Xiphos, Harrow, Nidus, Braton/Lato Vandal, Arbitrations in general, and so many other things point to this mentality.

From someone who has bought prime access, I just want to trust DE again.  Right now they don't need positivity and sunshine.  They need enough anger expressed at what is wrong to know where to focus their efforts.  They also need to know to focus on more than just changing numbers in a spreadsheet, because most of our fixes are that.  If we only expected tweaks to numbers this would have been a great update, but right now the issue isn't balance so much as fundamental mechanical properties.

 

Regarding improvements...sigh.  I've still seen people spawned outside of maps, spawns on fissures literally not have enough traces drop, and the advertised "fixes" to room openings in the void not working such that syndicate medallions are trapped behind doors which can never open due to an RNG roll on which path is active in challenge rooms.  These things happened 4 years ago, and I'm highlighting only what I've seen in the past week to demonstrate that improvements are something DE often fixes so hard that following patches fix them right back to broken if they were ever fixed at all.  Two steps forward, one right, two back, and falling flat on your face is where we are.

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On 2020-01-24 at 1:40 PM, Guilden_stern said:

I read your post several times despite your grammar to make sure i understood clearly what you wrote and the conclusion I've arrived to is the same as in my previous comment which i think you didn't read or understand completely : You don't like the quests and find them uninteresting when almost everyone else does. You don't like sitting through the cut-scenes because you lack the time to actually bother to watch them. You find Sands of Inaros boring and a waste of time and would rather wait for the prime version. Finally you find the story boring, and uninspired and would rather spend 20 min just wandering around doing stuff. And you're wrong when you say that the game is not about the story when players actually dedicate their time discussing the lore and trying to guess what will happen next. Just go to youtube and and you'll find tons of videos talking about the lore. Rahetalius literally made development report videos for some warframes and judging by the comments is really popular with people asking them for more videos like these. Warframe is centered around a narrative whether you like it or not. If it isn't then what is it? A mindless grind-for-the-next-shiny game? Fashionframe? You and me view Warfame as two totally different games.

Lol useless personal attack cuz I guess you got nothing better. This is not an English class and hypocritical besides.  I understood you just fine despite your lack of reply in perfect French on your phone so there. 

 

I don't know anyone that likes the story. It's unfollow able to start with. Most people just rush it.  If you miss and operation you miss a lot. My bro had no idea why Alad v was infested or cured cause he missed all that event. And he litterally quit cuz of worthless progression gates. If you want story go collect all the lore objects and read all that garbage codex entries. So some dude I never heard of made a video about it so what. I'm sure there are videos about the lore of Killing Floor or l4d too and even donkey Kong. But you don't need to do loooong boring quests some that take days bc of crafting or not getting spawns or what have you, just in order to unlock content that doesn't even seem to have a real use. Just fluff.  Or if it's a wf buy it or wait for prime. 

 

Have you even played wf from the start? Corridor looter shooter from the start, NOT rpg stupidity. There was no narrative blocking fun.  You don't need boring unskippable cutscenes to have a good game.  You want to do story stuff good for you but it shouldn't be forced in a game that never had quests from the start. It's just some things they are shoving in saying we can have dEeP StoRy tO. 

 

 

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10 hours ago, master_of_destiny said:

I'm going to boil this down to a simple argument, through there's nuance.

The reason that people hated No Man's Sky, and whatever Peter Molyneux is working on, is not because of its release state alone.  The problem is that both of these entities spent months and years talking up what it was meant to be, released way too early, and the result is an abomination.  

 

Now, let's talk DE.  In late 2018 and 2019 it was made clear that people needed a roadmap, because the content releases were sparse.  They got the board.  The promises on the board were substantial.  What made it infinitely worse is that bi-weekly there was another stream hyping up the content.  Let's demonstrate an infested zaw, a sentient arm cannon, thumpers, and so much content literally years before they make it into the game.  Let's demonstrate Railjack working as a pick-up in Fortuna, flying into space, and being a feature in the middle of 2018 when it will release only at the very tail end of 2019.  Let's wait until nearly the end of 2019, and redefine what Railjack is so that we can make a 2019 release without most features but still claim a 2019 release.

What I want from DE is to stop promising things years in advance.  To stop focusing on the new hotness without making sure they have the resources, and to stop using the PC players as testing that should have been completed prior to any release, so the console releases aren't a complete dumpster fire.  

Where I have problems is that DE doesn't take kindly to anything but praise.  If you'd like to look back at the history it took a monumental effort to make companions worth while, because Carrier only vacuum meant literally no other companion was worth having.  I keep citing that because I remember being told that the community was fully of entitled manbabies, and that a "vocal minority" of hateful complaints were being ignored because DE knew better than us.  I remember the same happening with the economy on PoE, the beacons for Infested Alad V took about three years for a near silent decrease from 3 required to 1, and a bunch of other examples.

 

So here's my response.  There's plenty of people who want to offer praise to DE.  The survey of people following Steve's twitter indicate that amongst those dedicated enough to follow him there's a huge portion who believe that nothing is wrong with the game.  There are people willing to act as their marketing arm of DE for access to digital goods and require no compensation for DE itself.  There are people who create and sign over the rights to fan art, and those who create content for them so that they don't have to design transactions to pay the bills (tennogen).  Likewise, they've got plenty of people who will hate any change.  Frame reworks, Riven rebalances, and nerfing things into the ground so that perceived power creep is quashed will always raise ire.  What DE needs is people who are doing their beta testing, offering feedback with clear points to address, and they need to actually listen and address it.  

I've spent plenty of my time in this game trying to figure out what is wrong.  I don't scream that the game suck and I'm leaving, I've highlighted the specific failures and why they exist from the perspective of a player.  I've highlighted fixes which offer no less grinding, but will feel fair.  Years ago I suggested a token style system, based off of virtually every other MMO ever, that they've finally employed years later with the anomaly completion.  The issue is that after writing all of this I see somebody spamming twitter has more respect than I do.  Why do Universal Medallions, a rare drop, not work on Conclave?  It's highlighted by DE that one angry twitter message swayed them to keep the content inaccessible despite the fact that a rare drop would mean working toward conclave with universal medallions would require more game play than playing conclave. 

What happens after hundreds of pages of feedback on Railjack; we get number tweaks, changes to resources, and a thorough rebalance of damage which resulted in weaponry feeling worse.  The main positives are that loot drops are finally shared, but the result is that now Gian Point seems to be the only place you can go for a random squad because the ultra rare avionics drop there.  After a month the Railjack system is still broken, and it's because it was obviously released with a "fix it later" mentality that kills games.  DE really needs for people to call them out, explain this is unacceptable, and to highlight what is wrong.  If they cannot take that feedback, then close down the forums.  Move everything to twitter and ban anybody who says something you don't agree with.  In about six months the game will be as dead as Anthem or Fallout 76, where greed and incompetence due to executive meddling and not addressing feedback have effectively poisoned the well for years to come.  I hope DE isn't that stupid, because honestly this feedback is us doing QA for them.  If you don't listen to QA, don't be surprised when people just never come back to your game.  

By the way, how are Lawbreakers, Overwatch, and Artifact doing?  All of those games had a huge following before completely ignoring community feedback.  Oh.  They're all dead or dying you say.  The communities that supported them stopped engaging when the developers stopped listening.  The turns to free to play brought in people, but the monetization schemes often sank the player base because the grind associated with the "free" aspects made people leave once they found out that sub 10% chances on getting what you wanted meant some people could literally draw a hundred times without getting something they desired and the subsequent lack of rewarding feedback was toxic because the pay to skip punishing grinds was transparent.  Well color me impressed.  20 minutes for a 1.01% drop rate in ESO on the Braton Vandal blueprint and a 0.101% drop chance for avionics seems like a pretty much textbook example of the same fatal flaw.

 

Let's be DE.  0.101% drop chances mean 99.899% of not dropping.  Let's kill 1000 enemy units.  At 90 a pop, let's assume half are the unit we want.  That's 45 units, or 23 runs to get to 1000 units.  Now, the chance of not getting the avionic is 0.99899^1000 or 36.4%.  At about 20 minutes a run that's 7.67 hours or 7 hours 40 minutes.  For an entire work day of grinding a mission where you know a specific enemy type is in abundance you only have a 63.6% chance of getting an avionic.  If we're actually looking at elite exo cutter spawns it isn't 50% of units on a map, so 7+ hours of grind is an insanely optimistic view.  This is how you stretch lackluster content to the point of breaking, and without telling DE we aren't that stupid they'll keep doing it.  The Hema, Xiphos, Harrow, Nidus, Braton/Lato Vandal, Arbitrations in general, and so many other things point to this mentality.

From someone who has bought prime access, I just want to trust DE again.  Right now they don't need positivity and sunshine.  They need enough anger expressed at what is wrong to know where to focus their efforts.  They also need to know to focus on more than just changing numbers in a spreadsheet, because most of our fixes are that.  If we only expected tweaks to numbers this would have been a great update, but right now the issue isn't balance so much as fundamental mechanical properties.

 

Regarding improvements...sigh.  I've still seen people spawned outside of maps, spawns on fissures literally not have enough traces drop, and the advertised "fixes" to room openings in the void not working such that syndicate medallions are trapped behind doors which can never open due to an RNG roll on which path is active in challenge rooms.  These things happened 4 years ago, and I'm highlighting only what I've seen in the past week to demonstrate that improvements are something DE often fixes so hard that following patches fix them right back to broken if they were ever fixed at all.  Two steps forward, one right, two back, and falling flat on your face is where we are.

Everything you said is honestly true, i know it. I know the game isnt perfect,and DE could definitely stand to listen to their fanbase more, and following through on their promises Definitely needs improvement. But this isnt my point. My point is, when they make an update chipping away at the problems with the release, and immediately get pages of "DE bad, railjack sucks"...That cant be good for their motivation, or mental health in general. Yes i want DE to improve what they have released, definitely, and yes they need to see the communitys outrage to understand what went wrong and what to do better next time after they fix this, but recently just...what i keep seeing from the community is just depressing and upsets me even though i know a majority of it is neccessary.

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10 hours ago, master_of_destiny said:

I'm going to boil this down to a simple argument, through there's nuance.

The reason that people hated No Man's Sky, and whatever Peter Molyneux is working on, is not because of its release state alone.  The problem is that both of these entities spent months and years talking up what it was meant to be, released way too early, and the result is an abomination.  

 

Now, let's talk DE.  In late 2018 and 2019 it was made clear that people needed a roadmap, because the content releases were sparse.  They got the board.  The promises on the board were substantial.  What made it infinitely worse is that bi-weekly there was another stream hyping up the content.  Let's demonstrate an infested zaw, a sentient arm cannon, thumpers, and so much content literally years before they make it into the game.  Let's demonstrate Railjack working as a pick-up in Fortuna, flying into space, and being a feature in the middle of 2018 when it will release only at the very tail end of 2019.  Let's wait until nearly the end of 2019, and redefine what Railjack is so that we can make a 2019 release without most features but still claim a 2019 release.

What I want from DE is to stop promising things years in advance.  To stop focusing on the new hotness without making sure they have the resources, and to stop using the PC players as testing that should have been completed prior to any release, so the console releases aren't a complete dumpster fire.  

Where I have problems is that DE doesn't take kindly to anything but praise.  If you'd like to look back at the history it took a monumental effort to make companions worth while, because Carrier only vacuum meant literally no other companion was worth having.  I keep citing that because I remember being told that the community was fully of entitled manbabies, and that a "vocal minority" of hateful complaints were being ignored because DE knew better than us.  I remember the same happening with the economy on PoE, the beacons for Infested Alad V took about three years for a near silent decrease from 3 required to 1, and a bunch of other examples.

 

So here's my response.  There's plenty of people who want to offer praise to DE.  The survey of people following Steve's twitter indicate that amongst those dedicated enough to follow him there's a huge portion who believe that nothing is wrong with the game.  There are people willing to act as their marketing arm of DE for access to digital goods and require no compensation for DE itself.  There are people who create and sign over the rights to fan art, and those who create content for them so that they don't have to design transactions to pay the bills (tennogen).  Likewise, they've got plenty of people who will hate any change.  Frame reworks, Riven rebalances, and nerfing things into the ground so that perceived power creep is quashed will always raise ire.  What DE needs is people who are doing their beta testing, offering feedback with clear points to address, and they need to actually listen and address it.  

I've spent plenty of my time in this game trying to figure out what is wrong.  I don't scream that the game suck and I'm leaving, I've highlighted the specific failures and why they exist from the perspective of a player.  I've highlighted fixes which offer no less grinding, but will feel fair.  Years ago I suggested a token style system, based off of virtually every other MMO ever, that they've finally employed years later with the anomaly completion.  The issue is that after writing all of this I see somebody spamming twitter has more respect than I do.  Why do Universal Medallions, a rare drop, not work on Conclave?  It's highlighted by DE that one angry twitter message swayed them to keep the content inaccessible despite the fact that a rare drop would mean working toward conclave with universal medallions would require more game play than playing conclave. 

What happens after hundreds of pages of feedback on Railjack; we get number tweaks, changes to resources, and a thorough rebalance of damage which resulted in weaponry feeling worse.  The main positives are that loot drops are finally shared, but the result is that now Gian Point seems to be the only place you can go for a random squad because the ultra rare avionics drop there.  After a month the Railjack system is still broken, and it's because it was obviously released with a "fix it later" mentality that kills games.  DE really needs for people to call them out, explain this is unacceptable, and to highlight what is wrong.  If they cannot take that feedback, then close down the forums.  Move everything to twitter and ban anybody who says something you don't agree with.  In about six months the game will be as dead as Anthem or Fallout 76, where greed and incompetence due to executive meddling and not addressing feedback have effectively poisoned the well for years to come.  I hope DE isn't that stupid, because honestly this feedback is us doing QA for them.  If you don't listen to QA, don't be surprised when people just never come back to your game.  

By the way, how are Lawbreakers, Overwatch, and Artifact doing?  All of those games had a huge following before completely ignoring community feedback.  Oh.  They're all dead or dying you say.  The communities that supported them stopped engaging when the developers stopped listening.  The turns to free to play brought in people, but the monetization schemes often sank the player base because the grind associated with the "free" aspects made people leave once they found out that sub 10% chances on getting what you wanted meant some people could literally draw a hundred times without getting something they desired and the subsequent lack of rewarding feedback was toxic because the pay to skip punishing grinds was transparent.  Well color me impressed.  20 minutes for a 1.01% drop rate in ESO on the Braton Vandal blueprint and a 0.101% drop chance for avionics seems like a pretty much textbook example of the same fatal flaw.

 

Let's be DE.  0.101% drop chances mean 99.899% of not dropping.  Let's kill 1000 enemy units.  At 90 a pop, let's assume half are the unit we want.  That's 45 units, or 23 runs to get to 1000 units.  Now, the chance of not getting the avionic is 0.99899^1000 or 36.4%.  At about 20 minutes a run that's 7.67 hours or 7 hours 40 minutes.  For an entire work day of grinding a mission where you know a specific enemy type is in abundance you only have a 63.6% chance of getting an avionic.  If we're actually looking at elite exo cutter spawns it isn't 50% of units on a map, so 7+ hours of grind is an insanely optimistic view.  This is how you stretch lackluster content to the point of breaking, and without telling DE we aren't that stupid they'll keep doing it.  The Hema, Xiphos, Harrow, Nidus, Braton/Lato Vandal, Arbitrations in general, and so many other things point to this mentality.

From someone who has bought prime access, I just want to trust DE again.  Right now they don't need positivity and sunshine.  They need enough anger expressed at what is wrong to know where to focus their efforts.  They also need to know to focus on more than just changing numbers in a spreadsheet, because most of our fixes are that.  If we only expected tweaks to numbers this would have been a great update, but right now the issue isn't balance so much as fundamental mechanical properties.

 

Regarding improvements...sigh.  I've still seen people spawned outside of maps, spawns on fissures literally not have enough traces drop, and the advertised "fixes" to room openings in the void not working such that syndicate medallions are trapped behind doors which can never open due to an RNG roll on which path is active in challenge rooms.  These things happened 4 years ago, and I'm highlighting only what I've seen in the past week to demonstrate that improvements are something DE often fixes so hard that following patches fix them right back to broken if they were ever fixed at all.  Two steps forward, one right, two back, and falling flat on your face is where we are.

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You are obviously very passionate about warframe but, man, you gotta let it go. You are complaining about years of being disappointed. Maybe this game isnt for you.

 

"They need enough anger..." if you want to be taken seriously then you need to move past this way of thinking. Either to a new game or a point of acceptance.

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