Cloudwalker's fix was uncalled for.

[Ham_Grenabe]

33 minutes ago, CopperBezel said:

Yep. Other useful things about Wukong include built armor from his 3 extending to pets through Link Armor and being able to line up a shot in 4 while invisible. Big pile of QoL and handy little bonuses, but this had become his One Big Thing since his rework.

When it’s put like that, I can see DE arguing that reinforces the decision to change the ability. It may have been his exceptional thing, but speed is not Wukongs intended niche or the thing he’s supposed to be exceptional at.

Clearly just changing that while not reinforcing the other things is a bad solution, but “Wukong Is So Fast” may be part of the reason it was changed — that’s not the intended role for him.

Not that I’m saying this was really worth changing—seems like there are a few more important things to consider lately —but...

 

 

[ArcKnight9202]

On 2020-01-24 at 12:16 PM, Drachnyn said:

There are times when DE should make "bugs" a feature, this is one of them. Giving Wukong the option to mod his speed only opens up build variety.

This is a sensible way to approach it, but it might also lead to the opposite problem. If the stat used to boost the movement speed goes into the negative, it makes it worse. Unless you're talking about literal sprint-speed mods, in which case that would be fine, too.

I'm not really sure why this wasn't implemented. Surely a middle-ground could be reached.

[CopperBezel]

That would be exceptionally stupid and petty and I don't think DE thinks that way. They only made him useful by accident, so they'd better nerf him back into irrelevance? He wasn't intended to have a "role" so he'd better not find one?

Not at all incidentally, but despite the wiki claiming that CW's speed is 30 m/s modified by sprint mods, this is not the case (and doesn't appear to have ever been.) Only the sprinting CW was modified by sprint speed. Per some fapping about in the Simulacrum, it's 30 m/s period now, whether unmodded or with 2.x sprint speed. 

Edited January 25, 2020 by CopperBezel

[Ham_Grenabe]

That's not what I said. What I said was, whatever role he was supposed to have, it's possible DE's position is that being very fast is not it. 

In other words, obviously he was supposed to have a role--and there's plenty of room to debate whether he actually does--but regardless, it's not supposed to be "the fast guy." 

Edited January 25, 2020 by Ham_Grenabe

[EinheriarJudith]

people argue for consistency, and then when they get it, they get mad. i dont use toggle sprint so nothing was lost.

[DeMonkey]

3 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

i dont use toggle sprint so nothing was lost

Yes, you most definitely did. The patch notes listing is wrong.

[CopperBezel]

It's possible that they flat out don't sprint ever. Since they apparently take satisfaction in the removal of features they don't use, I suppose we should just have sprint taken out in the next hotfix for their sake.

2 hours ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

That's not what I said. What I said was, whatever role he was supposed to have, it's possible DE's position is that being very fast is not it. 

In other words, obviously he was supposed to have a role--and there's plenty of room to debate whether he actually does--but regardless, it's not supposed to be "the fast guy." 

I certainly don't see a lot of room to debate whether he really needed another nerf. Again, DE knew exactly how fast he was, and the "bug" was just how Wukong has played since his rework, for them too. It's not something you can get around encountering.

A nebulously defined role that may or may not exist is a terrible basis on which to decide in retrospect that he can't also be very fast at getting around. We're talking about a frame that is far from OP here; it's not a matter of balance, tanks and healers and DPS or whatnot, you're describing a matter of theme. So yeah, I think it would be extremely petty to look at the community deciding he's the quick one, and decide to nerf that. 

It'd be beside any possible point to note that it also has nothing to do with frames that are thematically fast, like Gauss or Volt, and can't possibly step on their toes. 

Edited January 25, 2020 by CopperBezel

[EinheriarJudith]

19 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Yes, you most definitely did. The patch notes listing is wrong.

• Fixed toggle sprint carrying over into Wukong’s Cloud Walker (normal hold sprint did not).

no. no i didnt. i dont use toggle sprint. also this brings it in line with hold sprint for consistency. wukong is a melee frame not a speed frame. cloud walker is still fast. still makes you invulnerable and still heals both you and wuclone.

make up your minds. you want consistency or you dont.

[DeMonkey]

Just now, EinheriarJudith said:

• Fixed toggle sprint carrying over into Wukong’s Cloud Walker (normal hold sprint did not).

no. no i didnt. i dont use toggle sprint. also this brings it in line with hold sprint for consistency. wukong is a melee frame not a speed frame. cloud walker is still fast. still makes you invulnerable and still heals both you and wuclone.

make up your minds. you want consistency or you dont.

"The patch notes listing is wrong"

[EinheriarJudith]

1 minute ago, DeMonkey said:

"The patch notes listing is wrong"

proof?

[CopperBezel]

Er, maybe the dozens of people who have confirmed that held sprint also affected CW before the change?

[EinheriarJudith]

3 minutes ago, CopperBezel said:

Er, maybe the dozens of people who have confirmed that held sprint also affected CW before the change?

so peoples word. no actual video evidence? against the people who patch the game/write up the patch notes? i think ill hold any disbelief until they make a revision to the patch notes like they do when they make a mistake.

[DeMonkey]

12 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

proof?

Besides the fact that I used hold sprint and it worked fine?

5 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

so peoples word. no actual video evidence?

What, you want people to have video proof of themselves showing that they don't have toggle sprint on, followed by jumping into a match and showing it works?

Why would anyone have filmed that?

[EinheriarJudith]

Just now, DeMonkey said:

Besides the fact that I used hold sprint and it worked fine?

What, you want people to have video proof of themselves showing that they don't have toggle sprint on, followed by jumping into a match and showing it works?

Why would anyone have filmed that?

if you are going to make a statement saying the people who work for DE are wrong. you bet you better have evidence to back it up.

[DeMonkey]

2 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

if you are going to make a statement saying the people who work for DE are wrong. you bet you better have evidence to back it up.

I lack the ability to see into the future, sorry.

And yes, DE are wrong, regardless of whether you believe us or not.

[EinheriarJudith]

Just now, DeMonkey said:

I lack the ability to see into the future, sorry.

And yes, DE are wrong, regardless of whether you believe us or not.

i tend to agree with you most often monkey. but not here. im one for consistency and to me nothing was lost. i never noticed such a feature playing wukong. then again i dont use cloud walker as some kind of speed skill.

[DeMonkey]

2 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

i tend to agree with you most often monkey. but not here. im one for consistency and to me nothing was lost. i never noticed such a feature playing wukong. then again i dont use cloud walker as some kind of speed skill.

It already was consistent, however.

I don't have any interest in slander or accusations, I'm sure it was an honest mistake, but the patch note is completely wrong. It had absolutely nothing to do with toggle sprint. Simply the act of sprinting when activating Cloudwalker, regardless of the toggle. 

Check the other threads, many people are commenting on the misinformation.

So, again, it was consistent. If you sprinted into Cloudwalker, regardless of the toggle, you achieved a faster speed.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

Yeah I agree with OP. The "fix" was nonsense and stupid. There was absolutely zero reason to spend Dev time on this fix. 

[CopperBezel]

On 2020-01-25 at 5:27 PM, EinheriarJudith said:

i tend to agree with you most often monkey. but not here. im one for consistency and to me nothing was lost. i never noticed such a feature playing wukong. then again i dont use cloud walker as some kind of speed skill.

If there had been any inconsistency, which there wasn't, it would be equally "consistent" to make it work both ways, which of course, it already did. The fact that you never happened to press sprint is immaterial, and indicates you probably don't use much of anything as "some kind of speed skill".

The idea that a flight ability of any kind is not a mobility skill in your mind amazes me.

[selig_fay]

16 минут назад, CopperBezel сказал:

The idea that a flight ability of any kind is not a mobility skill in your mind amazes me.

Hildryn. 

[DeMonkey]

1 minute ago, zhellon said:

Hildryn. 

Hover.

[CopperBezel]

3 minutes ago, zhellon said:

Hildryn. 

Valid. Valid. 

[kwlingo]

On 2020-01-23 at 11:37 PM, (NSW)MasterJ93 said:

Quick: everyone stop using Wukong for a year! Gotta get DE to see that this stops people from enjoying Wukong and since they want all frames to have use,... maybe that will get them to revert it? I don't know.

This game probably needs a "BBND" moment (or several in rapid succession) if people actually want change (of which, it looks like people don't).

_{(If you guys are actually going to do it, could you at least start with getting the Hema research requirements to go down to a reasonable amount? I'm still farming those Mutgen Samples and it's painful to do still. *ahem*)}

I think you mean Saryn nerf coming lol

[(XBOX)Togashi]

Let's not forget his Ironstaff is pretty much worthless just like every other exalted ability since the melee rework. 

[Bloop]

2 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

i tend to agree with you most often monkey. but not here. im one for consistency and to me nothing was lost. i never noticed such a feature playing wukong. then again i dont use cloud walker as some kind of speed skill.

To you nothing was lost because you didn't notice anything? If you modded for sprint speed, you'd notice the moment you casted the ability while sprinting.

It worked regardless of toggle or hold, but obviously toggle means that the sprinting state is up all the time. Let's forget whether it's toggle or hold and let's talk about sprinting and walking.

The nerf has little to do with this. The wording was either misinformed or done in such a way that it would look like it was a legitimate fix. They "fixed", after months, sprinting state carrying over to cloudwalker, thus boosting its speed.

For some reference since this was already talked about. And speed through level as a point, when we have so many tools to still sprint through level feels a bit odd. Should we expect other mobility abilities to be nerfed as well? Maybe Naramon's dash refunding energy so you can speed through level even further by just using operator, to be nerfed too?

It's a touchy subject, but why "fix" something that in reality isn't broken?