Why Do We UI Like We UI?

[LeaserResael]

Instead of writing a lot, I decided to take the time to create a mockup of my own. I think at this point is clear that most players don't like the current mentality of hiding everything.
I think that you should separate rewards/exp gained, mission stats and squad showcase.

 

[DraekoSilver]

13 minutes ago, LeaserResael said:

Instead of writing a lot, I decided to take the time to create a mockup of my own. I think at this point is clear that most players don't like the current mentality of hiding everything.
I think that you should separate rewards/exp gained, mission stats and squad showcase.

 

Yo! I love this!

You should post this on reddit, they will love this too I bet.

[Samhel]

2 hours ago, Teitaka said:

-snip-

Why dont you want to see your fashionframe on the end of mission screen? o,o

[LeaserResael]

hace 7 minutos, DraekoSilver dijo:

Yo! I love this!

You should post this on reddit, they will love this too I bet.

Thanks! I already posted it on reddit too at the same time I did here.  

[SordidDreams]

On 2020-01-24 at 10:33 PM, [DE]Pablo said:

The compromise we arrived at to try and circle this square, was to use a variant of progressive disclosure, which in practice means we add more information, but put it behind rollovers or clicks.

That is exactly the worst possible approach that makes nobody happy. You can't have your cake and eat it too, you need to choose which group you want to cater to. If you want your audience to be people who like complex games with lots of stats, you need to actually display those stats to them. If you want your audience to be people who don't like lots of stats, then you need to rework and simplify literally the entire game to have less stats in it, because having a complex game with lots of stats and then hiding those stats doesn't do this group any favors anyway. I think it's pretty clear which course of action is more viable and the correct choice.

Also, the bit about adding more information is not true. On most screens the information hidden from the user is exactly the same that was previously clearly presented.

On 2020-01-24 at 10:33 PM, [DE]Pablo said:

A common approach in UX is to treat it as a conversation

That is a good approach, but unfortunately WF's UX is like a conversation with someone who really likes the sound of their own voice and has a habit of going on tangents that have nothing to do with what the conversation is about.. The shorter and more to-the-point the conversation is, the better. Like some dead dude said, brevity is the soul of wit. The abilities screen is an information screen, not an eye-candy screen. When players to go an information screen, they want to see information. Not a diorama. Not eye-candy. Information. The player has already told you what they want to see, information about abilies, so the conversation doesn't need to continue beyond that. The game shouldn't give you eye-candy when you ask for information and then require you to ask again before actually giving you what you want. The only reason for having another branching point in the dialogue tree is if the answer wouldn't fit on one screen, as is the case with the excellent mouseover ability pop-ups on the modding screen. But that's blatantly not the case with the abilities screen. Eye-candy is a nice bonus that can be put on information screens if and only if there's spare room after all the relevant information is presented (again, note the excellent modding screen, which presents so much information that there is no room left for eye-candy).

On 2020-01-24 at 10:33 PM, [DE]Pablo said:

I play without labels on and I don’t miss them.

Between this and your expectation that post-rework Ember would become more popular in ESO (where you can't spam your 4, which is all post-rework Ember does), I'm now convinced that, if you do play the game at all, you can't have made it past Jupiter.

On 2020-01-24 at 10:33 PM, [DE]Pablo said:

new Mastery badges

Are garbage. Filling out all the parts of the badge and getting to the pretty 28+ ones was a goal I'd had for literally years. If you take them away, it's going to be yet another little nudge to stop giving a crap about this game. You guys have been nudging a lot lately, as I'm sure you can tell from looking at the player numbers. I advise you to stop.

 

Edited January 29, 2020 by SordidDreams

[Feltal]

New mastery badges don't make sense. The old ones were better.

[Teitaka]

11 minutes ago, Samhel said:

Why dont you want to see your fashionframe on the end of mission screen? o,o

Because I want my mission rewards screen to show the info I probably want to know . . . namely "my mission rewards", not pictures of other players.

[Hawk_of_the_Reborn]

31 minutes ago, LeaserResael said:

Instead of writing a lot, I decided to take the time to create a mockup of my own. I think at this point is clear that most players don't like the current mentality of hiding everything.
I think that you should separate rewards/exp gained, mission stats and squad showcase.

 

This one looks like crap.

Pablo's one is better, this one is too cluttered and would scare off newer players with the overload of information and disgusting clutter

[Rifz57000]

Pablo please, PLEASE, whatever you do to the end of mission screen don't remove the ability to skip the 10 seconds "returning to main menu in x seconds..." with spacebar when i'm playing alone.

[LeaserResael]

hace 1 hora, Hawk_of_the_Reborn dijo:

This one looks like crap.

Pablo's one is better, this one is too cluttered and would scare off newer players with the overload of information and disgusting clutter

I'll never understand the "it would scare off newer players". Treating new players like poor things that can't handle information is absurd. Look at the whole game, it is filled with information everywhere. 
A screen showing what you actually got instead of hiding everything just to "not scare" new players is ridiculous when they'll 100% no doubt have to use the wiki to learn 90% of the games' systems because there's a lack of information inside the actual game.

New players should be treated with more respect instead of thinking they can't handle information, hiding everything behind "press tab" isn't better, not by a long shot (this and the other 20 threads on reddit proves it).

Edited January 26, 2020 by LeaserResael
Grammar

[Ham_Grenabe]

19 minutes ago, Hawk_of_the_Reborn said:

This one looks like crap.

Pablo's one is better, this one is too cluttered and would scare off newer players with the overload of information and disgusting clutter

Incorrect. Next. 

 

[Hawk_of_the_Reborn]

Just now, Ham_Grenabe said:

Incorrect. Next. 

 

Explain.



Next.

[tyrael7]

Hey Pablo! I’m a 20 year graphic designer and 15 year UX UI product designer for a living. Love what you’re showcasing, I strongly think it’ll help bring Warframe into the next generation.

Games like anthem (while I can’t stand the UX) definitely have more AAA class UI designs, and I feel Warframe needs an overhaul to stay competitive. (You can and are already doing much better than this👇🏻 from what you're showing here - but just for reference)

 

1. My biggest suggestion would be based on the feedback: we generally have veterans who are somewhat offended by the “dumbing down” of UIs that are intended for newcomers.

But as a product designer I know first hand how important that new player experience is to improve retention.

So the obvious solution I see is to keep the new player experience simple and intuitive as you’re doing, but add advanced toggles for vets wherever possible.

 

2. As well, the main menu that shows when you hit escape is terribly dated. Like it’s just text and squares. Again, compare this to Anthem and it's easy to see this menu just looks cheap and dated.

For a high end sci-fi game with such incredibly futuristic elements like what we’re seeing in railjack and what you've previewed, I can’t help but point out how this low fidelity menu stands out like a sore thumb - and it’s easily the one we see most. And more importantly the Ux of that menu often requires multiple clicks as you enter sub menus to find what you need. I would highly suggest aiming to achieve “1 click to content” wherever possible.

 

3. As I recall my first play through of the game, there were various floating menus in-game at the very start (examples: choose a weapon, roll here, etc) and they just looked so 90s. I’m not seeing the love that you put into the rest of the game, and this is the first impression new players will encounter.

I’m sure this can all be made much more intuitive and much more attractive.

 

Highly recommend this video on the importance of “Conveyance”: 

 

Cheers Pablo! I’ll be eagerly awaiting all these exciting new changes!

Edited January 26, 2020 by tyrael7
added samples

[mkah_mvet]

5 minutes ago, Hawk_of_the_Reborn said:

Explain.



Next.

I really really hope you're just trolling the thread.  Because anything other than the exact opposite of what you originally said is pure nonsense.

[Hawk_of_the_Reborn]

3 minutes ago, mkah_mvet said:

I really really hope you're just trolling the thread.  Because anything other than the exact opposite of what you originally said is pure nonsense.

I mean, if you can't read it might look like that at first glance

[SordidDreams]

1 hour ago, Samhel said:

Why dont you want to see your fashionframe on the end of mission screen? o,o

Because I've been looking at that literally the entire mission in this 3rd-person game. I want my information screen to contain information. If I wanted eye-candy, I'd go to Captura.

Edited January 26, 2020 by SordidDreams

[Aerionoth]

Do you know what "at-a-glance" means? Because it seems you have no idea how much people value that simple thing. I don't want to search, scroll, carefully target, and then stay hovered over some icon to actually have the information I need from an information screen.

Item labels, quantities, and "already have in inventory" icons are mandatory, this is non-negotiable. I want my desktop clean, not my info feed; if my desktop is clean that means I've finished all outstanding work and am free to play warframe, but if the info feed is empty then there's a pretty big problem somewhere and the only thing I have left is frustration. The top part of the end-mission screen is, as was said, completely worthless; pretty, but worthless.

Hell, I'd scrap your entire pretty fluff UI to replace it with a wall of text and some small icons, that tells me instantly what I want to know without scrolling for an hour.

I've made far too many stylish themes just to widen the used area on websites and remove completely worthless crap I don't care about because "designers" seem to think less is more. No, less is less, and you should NEVER sacrifice function for style. Don't learn from Microsoft, screw those guys.

1 hour ago, LeaserResael said:

Instead of writing a lot, I decided to take the time to create a mockup of my own. I think at this point is clear that most players don't like the current mentality of hiding everything.
I think that you should separate rewards/exp gained, mission stats and squad showcase.

 

This guy gets it. See this guy? hire this guy. Use that end-screen and I might actually not hate what you plan for the future... That screen has everything I want to know immediately visible, AND it has the option at the bottom to showcase "the team" or the stats, for anyone that really cares about it.

Edited January 26, 2020 by Aerionoth

[SordidDreams]

9 minutes ago, Aerionoth said:

Don't learn from Microsoft, screw those guys.

Don't even get me started. With every new version of Windows they hide important information and settings deeper and deeper in a maze of categories and submenus. I had to pin Control Panel to my Start menu because they removed it from that handy menu you get when you right-click your Start button and replaced it with the f*cking Settings page. Someone in Redmond needs to have some common sense slapped into them. I'm dreading the day when they decide to remove Control Panel completely.

Edited January 26, 2020 by SordidDreams

[Aerionoth]

1 minute ago, SordidDreams said:

Don't even get me started. With every new version of Windows they hide important information and settings deeper and deeper in a maze of categories and submenus. I had to pin Control Panel to my Start menu because they removed it from that handy menu you get when you right-click your Start button and replaced it with the f*cking Settings page. Someone in Redmond needs to have some common sense slapped into them. I'm dreading the day when they decide to remove Control Panel completely.

I KNOW. I'm sick and tired of using more and more software and tweaks and hacks to get a semblance of a useful f-ing OS that doesn't try to obfuscate every single thing I want to see. Like hiding the size and number of items selected in a window... "more than 15 ... ???MB" does not help me at all, and I don't want to alt+enter to see the details. That's EXACTLY what pablo's trying to do, make you jump through multiple hoops to see the bloody information you're supposed to see at-a-glance.

[actuallyVile]

2 hours ago, LeaserResael said:

Instead of writing a lot, I decided to take the time to create a mockup of my own. I think at this point is clear that most players don't like the current mentality of hiding everything.
I think that you should separate rewards/exp gained, mission stats and squad showcase.

<god tier screenshot>

I love you.

[Ham_Grenabe]

3 minutes ago, kyori said:

DE cannot afford a professional UX designer?

They may not be able to justify hiring someone who does just that specialty, so they figure the people they have will figure it out. 

[MouadSaqui]

Accessing Inventory should be as easy as pressing the "I" Button, This is not good UI design

[LeaserResael]

I modified the equipment and syndicates sections to make the items in there bigger vertically. I think it looks a bit cleaner.

[Paragon_Night]

I think im done with WF for the foreseeable future. Recent updates and additions haven't addressed core concerns and the UI changes while pretty are functionally worse. Thanks for showing me less and filling half the screen with Warframe models that are completely unnecessary. It isnt this future change alone and more like a bunch of smaller things adding to my frustration with the game. Always saying we hear you and we heard the feedback and always never actually doing anything the players want (Case and point Univac).I dont expect anything much better from the eventual permanent end mission change. This extends to the core gameplay as well. It would be nice to give players a reason to play the current content instead of adding open world / space combat flavor of the year content disconnected from the rest of the economy and game style. Conceptually the team has a lot of cool ideas but it feels like you have abandoned the core WF mission / solar system experience.Was fun and will drop in from time to time but im done.

[Lorengorm]

I like most of the changes the new UI is making. Much nicer to look at and I like that it allows more details than before when hovered. I will say that Item Labels are a must to have on by default. It doesn't look any messier with them on and should only be opt-out. Otherwise, I like what I'm seeing! Keep it up, and keep making changes if players need them!