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[DE]Pablo

Why Do We UI Like We UI?

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Personally I believe that the abilities screen should just be for people new to the warframe trying to figure out what each one does, and as such should have descriptions always displayed, with videos and stats coming up with a mouseover. This way when you are a newer player trying to figure out what the warframe does, you don't have to then also mouse over to the abilities to read them, whereas when you look at them in the upgrade menu it's probably because you want to see what your mods do to each ability, so it makes sense to have them as a hover. Maybe just spreading the abilities a little more and raising them a bit to put a description underneath. Nothing too drastic but will likely help newer players when it comes to figuring stuff out.

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There's been about 2 threads a month about how Warframe's UI is a disaster. I'd like to cite them here, but for some reason searching for threads containing, "UI" brings up nothing for either body or topic. Not sure why that is... but, it is something at least a few people have been caring about tremendously for some time. Plenty of other fixes suit our individual needs better, but this is just another one of them that irks some players to the core. The level of disaster we perceive depends on what we focus on personally.

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On 2020-01-26 at 11:16 PM, LeaserResael said:

I modified the equipment and syndicates sections to make the items in there bigger vertically. I think it looks a bit cleaner.
aGTnTQh.png

THIS! SO MUCH THIS!!
Just put the 2 buttons from the bottom to the top next to the clock and sort the loot by rarity with rarer on the top and you golden.
And if needed you can have minor tweaks if something is off but it must be like this.

Don't waste time or space on needless filler. And side note I am not sure I like the hold to confirm thing in the RJ. We are NOT No Mans Sky here guys.

In any case, all that like this should upvote this guys post cause it needs to get noticed by DE.

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On 2020-01-24 at 3:33 PM, [DE]Pablo said:

 

we ... use a variant of progressive disclosure, which in practice means we add more information, but put it behind rollovers or clicks.

I don't know why I have to spell it out for you @[DE]Pablo, but this is the worst idea possible, and underpins why I hate so many of the UI changes.

Rollovers SUCK, especially for console where you're slowly pushing the cursor around with thumbsticks, not instantly mousing over something.

You should be trying to minimize clicks and cursor movement. Show me the information I need to make a decision, and show me which key to press to effect that decision.

Two examples:

  1. Relic reward selection screen
    1. There are a max of four possible rewards, and one must be chosen. One is selected by default. Currently you have to click to pick another reward. But my dumb game controller has four buttons right on the face, and I can't do anything on this screen except pick a reward. It sure would be nice to use those.
    2. There's more information if I hover over each reward. That might be okay, but I'm in a timed screen, and I need to decide NOW. I want to see the important information at a glance, not mouse around with my thumbstick. Important information like a) how many of this item do I have b) how many of the crafted version of this item do I have and c) do I already have the thing this prime part crafts into.
  2. Endless mission stay/extract voting screen
    1. The most important question is "Is the host going to extract" because no one wants to risk a host migration if they can avoid it. You hid the host information in a hover element. WHY?! It's four letters. Put them at the top, give them a gold circle, you have so many options, but you hid it.
    2. This screen used to clearly indicate (on PS4) triangle to stay and square to extract. Nice and quick. That still works, but it's no longer indicated anywhere. If you're new, you may think you need to thumbstick your cursor to one side to choose, which is slow. I've seen plenty of low MR players taking a long time on this screen, and I think this is why.

PC master race and all that jazz, but if you designed your UI to work better on console from the start, it's not like PC wouldn't also appreciate the simplicity. Stop hiding information in mouseovers and give your interfaces button bindings with labels.

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Just now, (PS4)chabala said:

I don't know why I have to spell it out for you @[DE]Pablo, but this is the worst idea possible, and underpins why I hate so many of the UI changes.

Rollovers SUCK, especially for console where you're slowly pushing the cursor around with thumbsticks, not instantly mousing over something.

You should be trying to minimize clicks and cursor movement. Show me the information I need to make a decision, and show me which key to press to effect that decision.

Two examples:

  1. Relic reward selection screen
    1. There are a max of four possible rewards, and one must be chosen. One is selected by default. Currently you have to click to pick another reward. But my dumb game controller has four buttons right on the face, and I can't do anything on this screen except pick a reward. It sure would be nice to use those.
    2. There's more information if I hover over each reward. That might be okay, but I'm in a timed screen, and I need to decide NOW. I want to see the important information at a glance, not mouse around with my thumbstick. Important information like a) how many of this item do I have b) how many of the crafted version of this item do I have and c) do I already have the thing this prime part crafts into.
  2. Endless mission stay/extract voting screen
    1. The most important question is "Is the host going to extract" because no one wants to risk a host migration if they can avoid it. You hid the host information in a hover element. WHY?! It's four letters. Put them at the top, give them a gold circle, you have so many options, but you hid it.
    2. This screen used to clearly indicate (on PS4) triangle to stay and square to extract. Nice and quick. That still works, but it's no longer indicated anywhere. If you're new, you may think you need to thumbstick your cursor to one side to choose, which is slow. I've seen plenty of low MR players taking a long time on this screen, and I think this is why.

PC master race and all that jazz, but if you designed your UI to work better on console from the start, it's not like PC wouldn't also appreciate the simplicity. Stop hiding information in mouseovers and give your interfaces button bindings with labels.

I'm glad they kept d pad controls in, lets you get around screens faster instead of having to scroll. 

I really do hope they don't force this as an update. Part of the update is to further expand on customizing, then let us customize our UI's even more. This game already allows for a good deal of customizing, would be even better if we could choose our setups for all of this stuff. 

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I love the ideas, and i would agree on making things consistent, since that really helps in everything. I also have a U.I. idea that want to share.

So there's a lot of times where I don't know what killed me, so I think it would actually be pretty useful that you can either see what type of damage or attack killed you, or at the least what enemy killed you so that way you can go look it up in codex and figure out how it killed you. With this being the case the player could see a lot easier what their weak spot(s) are.

Basically I'm thinking of a "death report" of sorts, doesn't have to be super detailed, but would be nice to have some better idea.

Thank you for either entertaining the idea, and i wish you a wonderful day.

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On 2020-01-24 at 4:33 PM, [DE]Pablo said:

we are adding more flavour to it by showcasing your whole squad

Ya know, players have really missed the pre-mission squad combat dioramas ever since the landing craft loading screens were introduced.  Maybe they could make a come back as part of the post-mission screen?

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Hello DE Pablo and company. I read your whole post, but not the comments. I have been playing Warframe for about 2 years now, and I am still impressed everyday with the UI and UX. The one favourite I absolutely love is the feature where I can use the d-pad (on PC and console) to automatically snap to a menu item, inventory item, or "Yes/No" button. I have not seen any other game combine free-cursor and snap-to-grid. For me this is still a revolutionary feature.  It feels intuitive and natural and automatic. Thank you. 

 

I do have a bug report and an algorithm report for the UI. But I don't want to post it here. Also I agree with your statement about the confirmation screens. I have stopped reading the messages that say "Action X. This action cannot be undone. Confirm: yes/no" and suffered the consequences. So creating a context driven action makes sense and save pop-up-confirmation screens for when it is really important.

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I can understand "overwhelming info" feedback for many UI elements (even if I am the one who wonts more info). But why the hell do you want to ruin the end mission screen? This screen is created for those who want more info! People who don't need it skip this screen anyway! #DontKillMyEndMissionScreen !

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3 minutes ago, AskForMercy said:

I can understand "overwhelming info" feedback for many UI elements (even if I am the one who wonts more info). But why the hell do you want to ruin the end mission screen? This screen is created for those who want more info! People who don't need it skip this screen anyway! #DontKillMyEndMissionScreen !

lol. You have a point. But I do like the idea of having different MVP categories (most revives, assists, dmg-prevented, etc)

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On 2020-01-24 at 4:43 PM, Gabbynaru said:

Also, please hide the end of game stats for other players. They only lead to toxicity. Do display the players own end of game stats (Damage dealt, damage taken, total kills, blah blah), but hide what the other players did. We don't need to know that, and neither does anyone else. All it does is create a stupid sense of competition that shouldn't even exist in a cooperative environment, and that sense of competition brings with it toxic behavior. So just hide it. It's unnecessary and doesn't help in any positive way.

It also lets us give helpful feedback to allies and see who's actually just afk leeching (which is toxic, to use your own words). I'd rather not make it easier for people to be toxic.

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Small input: please display the mission name, planet location and type of mission.

In my noob years I often found myself in a squad doing a bunch of random starchart nodes, and when we would end a great mission I was incapable of remembering the name of it to come back and do it again.

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11 hours ago, (PS4)chabala said:

it's not like PC wouldn't also appreciate the simplicity. Stop hiding information in mouseovers and give your interfaces button bindings with labels.

Damn straight. Even with a mouse, I got fed up very quickly with all the completely un-necessary crap that I have to do in order to make the UI show something useful.

It's not even like it'll take more space to do that. Look at the foundry UI.

No mouse pointer hanging over it:

foundry-nomouse.jpg

With the mouse pointer hanging over it:

foundry-withmouse.jpg

The second box is exactly the same size as the first. It's equally readable. It contains much more usable information. Why is this not shown by default?

This also leaves aside the large annoyance of the UI moving and rotating itself around as the pointer moves around. I'm trying to click on a button in a menu. I'm not trying to stab a plate of worms. Why is it attempting to get away from me?

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As a console player, all these proposed changes already send shivers down my spine, considering all the disfunctionalities and disimprovements that the UI changes in the past added to our gaming experience. We once had unspectacluar but streamlined and functional menus with shortcuts and accessability. Nowadays, we have to fiddle around with an unprecise and lame vitual "mouse" cursor to hover over everything to get any usuful information at all, but at least the menus look pretty and offer an opportunity to sell wallpapers for Plat... The new relic UI (both in the relic station and between fissure missions) is the biggest atrocity, that was implemented in the game so far, with overlapping textboxes that block your sight, while 1/3 of the screen stays unused until you hover over each relic and click a button... How this could be approved by a team and implemented... I just don't get it. I play videogames for almost 40(!) years now, but Warframe is the only game, that I played so far, where UI changes constantly make the player experience worse than before, just saying...

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The "new" ability screen is a step back and forward. IF I press on abilities I want to know what each of them does right away and how they are affected by my mods. Right now I have to hover over each of them to know what they actually do and certain symbiotic mechanics of abilities are still missing. Meanwhile an obscene amount of space is wasted on the diorama where instead you could display the description, mod effects, passive and only play the video if I hover over that ability.

Whoever is in charge of the UI has an obsession with withholding information or hiding it in submenus, tooltips or mouseovers. 

On 2020-01-24 at 10:33 PM, [DE]Pablo said:

Our logic was that 90% of our items have very recognizable icons, we looked at some of our contemporaries at the time and none of them had labels for items, and most of them had smaller, less unique icons than we did, so we felt comfortable removing labels.

Are we playing the same game? Without this option "on" I couldn't tell anything apart. Worst example are the prime parts in the inventory, they look exactly the same and a few of the resources are hard to differentiate as well. We have 100+ resources and with more being added with basically each mayor update, are you trying to tell me I'm supposed to know each of them by heart? That option should be on by default.

Similar with the ingame buffs during a mission like Warframe buffs or such a like. We have so many Warframes, abilties and "buff sources" that its almost impossible to keep track off during a mission what exact buff it actually is and where it comes from, especially as they are only active for a couple of seconds. I really would love that being looked at.

Edited by Zorndar

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48 minutes ago, (XB1)Kuhl MC said:

We once had unspectacluar but streamlined and functional menus with shortcuts and accessability. Nowadays, we have to fiddle around with an unprecise and lame vitual "mouse" cursor to hover over everything to get any usuful information at all

I was a former console player, and jumped ship to PC some time back. One unsung benefit was that I got to use an actual mouse, rather than a "mouse." 

Console and PC are just different, and it behooves DE to tailor the UI to the strengths (and available commands / controllers) of each. 

 

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9 minutes ago, Zorndar said:

Similar with the ingame buffs during a mission like Warframe buffs or such a like. We have so many Warframes, abilties and "buff sources" that its almost impossible to keep track off during a mission what exact buff it actually is and where it comes from, especially as they are only active for a couple of seconds. I really would love that being looked at.

They would be easier if they just used words. Something like "Damage +300%," "Dmg x4," or the like would be much easier to deal with. 

There are too many buff icons to fit the 7 +/- 2 rule. The names need to appear there too, or somewhere on the screen, and they should persist. I mean, they use words for the Smeeta buffs (or at least some of them). 

EDIT: I will note that typically, the impossibly-long-list-of-buffs only happens when there's an Octavia in the team, so I see that list and I say, "Oh, Octavia is doing, uh, whatever it is she does." I don't know which buff is which, or what it even does, but I guess I at least understand that good things are happening. 

Edited by Ham_Grenabe

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How to spot a bad UI?

When all important info is hidden in tooltips.

 

Here is an example, worthy of malware.

Spoiler

gui1.jpg

Ok, but what does this button do? Nothing happens, when I click it!

Spoiler

gui2.jpg

Spotting bad UI part 2:

Here is the Warframe equivalent used in Windows.

Spoiler

gui3.jpg

Uh, yes... Either it's broken, or what am I doing? What am I even selecting? Let me click this box down below.

Spoiler

gui4.jpg

Oh, now it makes sense.

 

Edited by NoSpax
english

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Although I love new design, we could use an "Expand" button somewhere to change default view to something like this on the fly:

UI.png

Also, mission name is a must have.

Edited by xGryphus

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Am 24.1.2020 um 22:33 schrieb [DE]Pablo:

Why does the new Railjack UI use hold to confirm?

This is another new thing we are trying with Railjack UI, confirmation popups are tried and true, but they do have some disadvantages, for example this one from polarizing Revenant.
fd7518bd9b9340183911af2a7fbd42c0.png

It tells me what will happen, but also it hides the context of what I did, I can't see the slot I polarized or the polarity I chose, I have found myself cancelling out of this out of fear that I selected the wrong polarity. Hold to confirm would preserve the context, so as you hold, you would be able see the slot and the polarity you selected.

Another downside of confirmation popups is that since there’s so many of them, most people stop reading them. If you only saw them on rare occasions, you'd be more likely to pay attention to what they say. I’ve gotten a request, twice now, to implement a special dialog for when you polarize a slot into the same polarity it already had. That actually has been in the game for years, but since it’s a popup amongst a sea of popups, people don’t notice it.
                                                                     1fa1432a7f2018e96d9651d861ced524.png

Does this mean we will start spreading hold to confirm all over the place? I don’t rightly know to be honest. In big part it will depend on your responses down below 😀 And that's mostly why I wanted to write this wall of text, I want you to understand why we do what we do, but at the end of the day we make it for you, so hopefully knowing our reasoning you can help guide us down the right road.

Last, but not least I wanted to share some of the screens we are currently working on, these are complicated ones, so don’t expect them super soon, but they are in the works.
 

@[DE]Pablo

You are overthinking it. Here is a mockup how I would do that in the case of forma something.

forma_screen.jpg

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On 2020-01-26 at 5:16 PM, LeaserResael said:

I modified the equipment and syndicates sections to make the items in there bigger vertically. I think it looks a bit cleaner.
aGTnTQh.png

this is honestly beautiful and everything i'd want in a summary screen..

  • Like 1

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I have a suggestion for the New UI. If somebody selects a mission it tells the name of the mission and the planet which is not useful information.

What we need is level of the mission,faction,type of mission (defense,sabotage,survival).

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vor 58 Minuten schrieb sashko59:

I have a suggestion for the New UI. If somebody selects a mission it tells the name of the mission and the planet which is not useful information.

What we need is level of the mission,faction,type of mission (defense,sabotage,survival).

I like to have that DURING mission. we had that once, but was removed.

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6 hours ago, NoSpax said:

How to spot a bad UI?

When all important info is hidden in tooltips.

 

Here is an example, worthy of malware.

  Reveal hidden contents

gui1.jpg

Ok, but what does this button do? Nothing happens, when I click it!

  Reveal hidden contents

gui2.jpg

Spotting bad UI part 2:

Here is the Warframe equivalent used in Windows.

  Reveal hidden contents

gui3.jpg

Uh, yes... Either it's broken, or what am I doing? What am I even selecting? Let me click this box down below.

  Reveal hidden contents

gui4.jpg

Oh, now it makes sense.

 

I just logged in so i could applaud your post. 

DE needs to understand that less is more does not translate directly over to videogames. 

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