Jump to content
[DE]Pablo

Why Do We UI Like We UI?

Recommended Posts

5 hours ago, FrostyNovaPrime said:

this is honestly beautiful and everything i'd want in a summary screen..

I agree. That screenshot is loaded with information while also being a visual update. Less is not more on a screen focused on numbers and stats.

It's a disservice to new and old players alike to hide relevant information in favor of showcasing Warframe cosmetics. I hope DE reconsiders these ideas and implements something clear, informative, and something that utilizes screen real estate properly.

Edited by Voltage

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Spoiler

aGTnTQh.png

vor 5 Minuten schrieb Voltage:

I agree. That screenshot is loaded with information while also being a visual update. Less is not more on a screen focused on numbers and stats.

It's a disservice to new and old players alike to hide relevant information in favor of showcasing Warframe cosmetics. I hope DE reconsiders these ideas and implements something clear, informative, and something that utilizes screen real estate properly.

 The "Squad Showcase" could be used as a loading screen instead, so the mission stats screen popus up after loading ended.

You cannot do much during loading anyway, so why not gaze at the awful color choices of our lovely mates. xD

If you want to look at them again, just that tiny button "Show Squad" to click is viable.

However, this screen is used during mission when TAB is pressed. so, it should NOT be overcrowded too much.

Another improvement I have is: make the scrollbars wider, instead of 6px either 8px or 10px. They won't get any bigger unless played at 800x600.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Props to @[DE]Helen for cleaning up the madness that was my post and its aftermath!

After more discussion and thought, I came up with an improvement for the end of mission screen: make equipment section 4 rows high, since we almost always have a sentinel, often with a weapon, and move syndicates to the bottom.

This, at least, would solve the issue of having 3-4 syndicates and doing Simaris' scans.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1. Warframe Abilities Screen The abilities screen should be more like the old one, where the information is available without having to hover over an ability. Viewing the animation in the back is not important and in my opinion, the space should be utilised by displaying all the information about the abilities upfront. There is a reason you click a button that says "abilities" to go to this screen, so it doesn't make sense to have to go an extra step (hovering over the icons) to view the things you already clicked a button for. The nested information is okay for the passive, but the tips button and it's UI is a bit clunky having to press TAB to cycle through them. Horizontal or Vertical columns for the abilities would be ideal, showing all the information about the warframe's abilities upfront.

2. Modding The modding screen is pretty good as it is, and doesn't require many changes, if any changes at all. The nested abilities icons under the warframe stats is a good use of nested information and to see the effects of the mods we apply. My only suggestion would be to maybe consider having a "type to search" feature, where you can immediately start typing to search for a mod instead of clicking on the search box first. A Ctrl+A bind to select text to quickly delete it in the search box would also be useful, as in other workflows, such as chrome, i use Ctrl+Backspace or Ctrl+A --> Backspace to select and delete text quickly. This feature however can be implemented only when you click the search box, as it could lead to accidental search deletions.

3. Weapon Info Currently, when you select a weapon from the market or codex (correct me if I'm wrong) you are brought to a screen where you have to hover over an "about" button to view the weapon stats. This information should be present immediately and not nested. The weapon's appearance shouldn't take up 80% of the screen. Information on where to get the weapon should also be made available on this screen, either in a column on the side, or as a nested box that displays acquisition of weapon parts from relics (and what specific relic (with a link to the relic)) as well as acquisition from the Market, or events as necessary.

4. End Of Mission Screen The mock-up for this screen looks pretty good, however, item labels should definitely not be turned off. This would not only be a problem for relics and prime parts, as not all of them have unique icons, but also for every other item in the game. For newer players, this would be absolute hell, as they wouldn't know that the "purply-grey rock thingies" are argon crystals (as an example). For the sake of simplicity, the item labels can be nested, and can appear when you hover over the item, but it should not be removed all together. As another suggestion, it would be great if we had the ability to pin an item during a mission, so that it constantly appears on the left (or right) side of our screen with the amount you currently have collected during the mission. This would be very useful for farming large amounts of items such as hexanon, being able to see how much you've collected on the side of your screen as you play constantly, rather than having to open up the menu, click "view current mission rewards" and scroll down to find it. This happens way too often, as many different items are collected during a mission, which means sometimes, the item you're actually farming isn't visible from the TAB screen during the mission. Mission time should also be displayed on all end of mission screens. Furthermore, an "advanced info" button can be introduced that takes you to a separate screen that gives mission stats in much more detail. For example, a stat for actual damage dealt, split up into physical, ability, primary and secondary weapon damage.

5. Mastery The mastery symbols don't need changing in my opinion, and look great as they are. Same goes for the mastery rank up screens. This shouldn't really be touched, or at the most, be provided as an optional UI theme.

6. Loading Screens The loading screens for earth look absolutely amazing! Having this for every planet/zone? in the star chart would be brilliant!

General Notes
It is much better to have a little too much information on one screen than none at all (as long as you don't go overboard with the info). There are too many instances where information that should be available on a screen is nested, or not there completely, for no obvious reason. I think I like where the design language is heading, but consistency across the whole UI is a bit off from the mock-ups you sent. For example, the new mastery symbols don't really fit in with the angular design of the rest of the UI (The old ones are much better in my opinion). Overall, I find it very cool that you are actually looking at the communities feedback to get a feel for the direction your players want the game to go in, seeing as they're the one's who are playing it. Keep up the good work!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So... @[DE]Pablo any updates or thoughts based on the many replies given here? Perhaps some updated concepts to share with the community?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please fix double confirmation dialog upon trading duplicate of equipped mod! 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2020-01-25 at 2:46 AM, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:

It's good that you're having a discussion with the community about this.

Personally, one of my biggest gripe with the interface changes in the history of Warframe dates from a while ago, when you guys made the decision to squeeze mods in inventory and make them all look the same visually as black and white gold , bronze and silver squares that barely have a visual idenity. We went from this rich, colored screen with full sized images :

maxresdefault.jpg

To this.... Which is basically alot of text with no colors and no identifiable images.731B903CBB48019708238BBFCA419FEC9BCD4EB2

In the process, we lost the ability to tell at a glance what a mod was by looking at it's image. Before, it was easy navigating your inventory because you saw the big color picture of the mod and clicked on it, now you pretty much have to read and memorize the name of every single mod to be able to find them in inventory. Granted there's a search bar , but you have to remember the name of the mod you're searching for... Which is annoying. Visual memory is instinctive, you quickly begin to associate that image / color pattern with the mod you're looking for. So if you could please , eventually, maybe stop displaying mods as small rarity-colored blocks of texts and instead as their full mod card, with a clear visual and memorable pattern, it would greatly help menu readability. Doesn't even have to be the equipped mods, just let us see the full color image of the stuff in our inventory / modding station. Heck, people love trading card games like magic the gathering and are also way more into mods if they look like cool trading cards instead of compressed black and white blocks.

Also, why are avionics all the same color ? Wouldn't it be more readable to use some form of color-coding , maybe to show lavan, vidar and zekti mods ? Guessing the awnser is "cause it looks more uniform and pretty... "But imho it's always better to be able to tell stuff apart than look pretty. Same with hiding too much info behind other screens and subsections. It's annoying. Maybe consider an "advanced" mode with all the stats and tooltips are displayed in the same page, and a more newbie-friendly version which hides other screens behind sub-pages.

And item labels should be on by default... It boggles the mind that it's off. It shoudn't even be an option to turn off, as so many items don't have unique portraits (all helmets, chassis, systems, relics, etc.). At the very least label these items all of the time since they have the same portrait and you can't ask your users to hover over all of them individually to see their name.

OMG SO much this!!!! Ive complained about it right away  when they showed the concept, the change was so bad cause it removed almost all the visual information from the mods and it's become like  text-based UI.

We absolutely need at least the colors back.

RJ UI suffers from the same problems -  its all faceless and you have to read text to recognize the items.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is there any way you CAN MAKE THE TEXT LARGER? it’s very hard to read on a large television while playing on console... especially on the switch. The resolution is not good enough to clearly read when it is soooooo small. If I could fix one thing, it would be to have an option for text to get larger. Please please please. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DE i beg thee please reconsider the changing of Mastery badges or at the very least allow players to keep the old options as a "Legacy setting" the new ones just look trash (for want of a better description) in comparison to the current old ones. Selfish of me to request this, sure it is, One if not the only reason i continued to rank up my Mastery was because of the current sigils you change those an this Tenno has no reason to grind them out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, -AxHx-Vile said:

So... @[DE]Pablo any updates or thoughts based on the many replies given here? Perhaps some updated concepts to share with the community?

I think this thread was more of a "This is how it's going to be" than a "what do you think?" Kind of the same approach used when they pushed the last big UI overhaul. 

I'm glad that everyone chimed in with what they thought anyway; Pablo updated the original post to say that he saw we mentioned Item Labels and two other things.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

I think this thread was more of a "This is how it's going to be" than a "what do you think?" Kind of the same approach used when they pushed the last big UI overhaul. 

I'm glad that everyone chimed in with what they thought anyway; Pablo updated the original post to say that he saw we mentioned Item Labels and two other things.

Oh I know. I also saw that update, but there have been many more replies since his update, along with some amazing mock up screens from other Tenno. I'd love to know what he / DE thinks about them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2020-01-24 at 9:33 PM, [DE]Pablo said:

End of mission: There will be item counts just like in any other grid, the mock is essentially just saying, space for 10 things. Also a title and whatnot, the mock is still WIP and generally they also change as we implement. In both sections we would have sorting, so if you got Intrinsics that would be sorted to the top of progression, if you were doing a Simaris daily his rep would sort up, but if you jsut scanned a few enemies it would be lower down. So hopefully with this, 6 slots is enough to show you the important stuff you got that mission.

6 Slots are not enough. 4 are needed for "normal" syndicates 1 for simmaris, 5 for equipment and 2 for gear. 

This is what we want to know, we don't care about what our team mates look like, we have seen them for 1 hour.

Having team mates rendered above stats makes sense to know which player is which.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
vor 7 Stunden schrieb Monolake:

OMG SO much this!!!! Ive complained about it right away  when they showed the concept, the change was so bad cause it removed almost all the visual information from the mods and it's become like  text-based UI.

We absolutely need at least the colors back.

RJ UI suffers from the same problems -  its all faceless and you have to read text to recognize the items.

Spoiler

731B903CBB48019708238BBFCA419FEC9BCD4EB2

Rearranging this screen will be a hell of design work without making it look weird. 

This is what I came up with and somehow, I don't feel satisfied. The warframe model would cover all mods up.

Spoiler

pseudo_mod_screen.jpg

MS paint skill 100

However, this layout wouldn't work well with weapons, which have even more stats, so... either redesign or left like we have now.

Edited by NoSpax

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 @[DE]Pablo Can we please have "Hide mastered" options in market section?

"Hide owned" is useful but we should be able to filter out mastered weapons too

Edited by RyAn0099

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We used to have way better UI then now... (not my pic all my old pictures are gone).

YqA8BFY.jpg

You can still see how utterly washed out the current ui is when it comes to the mod cards

just look at stretch from Nospaxs posts vs the old ui and its not hard to see what i mean. 

90% of the time i can see no details what so ever in the current UI when it comes to the mods. It the item labels where not there i would not even be able to know what half of them where. Even mods i have seen and used for several years.  

Its sad when an UI that has been gone longer then many players have played the game, used to give you both higher fidelity and clarity to what the mods where then the current iteration of the UI. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2020-01-25 at 3:43 AM, IronHair said:

There are a lot of UI changes that are simple fixes that can really help players.

A very simple one is adding the option to go to the arsenal to change loadouts or your setup from the navigation screen.
I've lost count of how many times I've had to spam ESC to change something, especially when I'm doing my daily sortie.

Why can't we have the simple feature of going from navigation to arsenal?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With the few years I have in web design/UI programing (not in game desighn though) for there are generally three rules I go by that each one of the current system breaks

  1. Give information in a short and concise manner.
  2. EVERYTHING should be within a minimum of three clicks
  3. make it intuitive for the end user. First time users should know what's going on from a glance

as a new player I had to take some time to learn what, everything meant and the fact there wasn't labeling honestly confused me more then anything. Also the hovering tool might "feel" or "look" cool (make it look sci-fi ish) but all it really does it make what could just be given have to be sought after.

love the game though ❤️

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, NoSpax said:
  Reveal hidden contents

731B903CBB48019708238BBFCA419FEC9BCD4EB2

Rearranging this screen will be a hell of design work without making it look weird. 

This is what I came up with and somehow, I don't feel satisfied. The warframe model would cover all mods up.

  Reveal hidden contents

pseudo_mod_screen.jpg

MS paint skill 100

However, this layout wouldn't work well with weapons, which have even more stats, so... either redesign or left like we have now.

just dont make them colorless, they would be instantly recognizable with no need to read the names if only they still had colored pictures - its a super easy change that doesn't require any layout re-design and a huge improvement 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

End of Mission Screen is now 50% even less informative than the current UI right now! SubReddit is already making meme out of the WIP End of UI Mission Screen because they already know its bad! (Same thing happened with the current UI especially the Void Relics and Market, and Linking the item and by market i mean the weapons, warframes, decorations, skins, etc.. you have to hover to the "About" just to see all the details and you see there's so many space left to make those drop list table being more visible and informative and you have to Hover over the Purchase button just to see the stats of a warframe and weapons and its way worse than the old UI, how could you even mess up more?!) and Console Tennos are complaining as well because the Current and WIP New UI is not even becoming more Console Friendly because you have to hover everything in the screen just to see the informations, come on! 

This is the best example from a Tenno's current New UI Design idea and you should be using the reddit more often to get more ideas than relying on forums only!

Remember, the game won't survive if you're not gonna make more QoL stuffs especially with the new updates (Empyrean and Kuva Lich)

I may not be a game designer or whatever, but just some 3D artist, i always take FEEDBACK and CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM to make it look better and YOU should do the same thing, but not just you but all of the Developers in DE to make the game look better.

Information always comes first than making screen looking beautiful and lacking information 

TL;DR - Display more text and informations (Like the Old UI) in a better way than displaying all the cosmetics in the screen that lacks info.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2020-01-24 at 4:43 PM, Gabbynaru said:

Also, please hide the end of game stats for other players. They only lead to toxicity. Do display the players own end of game stats (Damage dealt, damage taken, total kills, blah blah), but hide what the other players did. We don't need to know that, and neither does anyone else. All it does is create a stupid sense of competition that shouldn't even exist in a cooperative environment, and that sense of competition brings with it toxic behavior. So just hide it. It's unnecessary and doesn't help in any positive way.

I actually disagree strongly here.  I can't count how many times this screen has led me to a positive outcome.  The dialogue usually goes like this:

1. Fought tricky boss

2. Notice someone has higher damage percent than I did

3. Messages said person handing due respect and asking for build info for self improvement

4. Use advice to improve build

5. Verify using stats of next match

6. Grofit

This conversational loop is a big part of how I learn and acquire new builds and ideas and should definitely not be removed.  It is also how I give good players due props and thanks.  Yes, the stats can be misleading and may lead to toxicity but that interaction highly depends on the player.  

 

If you're the one being toxic, please stop.  You bring no added value to the community in doing so.  However, for cases where toxicity ensues and you're on the receiving end, simply don't respond to people who flaunt their numbers like a medal of honor and use it as a means to degrade others.  Then, almost miraculously, nothing transpires and all is well with the world.  I'd highly recommend that approach if toxicity becomes a problem for you or anyone. Fire needs fuel to burn.  Remove the fuel and the fire burns itself out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Give us the option to replace gearwheel with a geargrid. Reasons:
- Being able to see every equipped item at once
- No time wasted making circles with mouse
- That spiral is the only thing of its kind in the whole UI (except for emotes)
- Keyboard selection becomes possible. You'll most likely use only S and D for selection. Press E while holding Q to use.

Oh yea! And do the same for emotes!

In fact, I'mma make a topic for this, too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
vor 22 Minuten schrieb Uthael:

Give us the option to replace gearwheel with a geargrid. Reasons:

The gearwheel has another annoying quirk.

You can select items by moving the mouse inside the circle, as all clickable elements extend into the dead center, like while a prize spinning wheel.

Near the center, 1 pixel off and you choose something else then the thing you need.

I don't mind the extended ranges, but there should be a deadzone. maybe place the Omni there as a "master" item.

Hide stuff IN MISSIONS you can't even use on Click, like Ciphers. It's a dead space, but I have to use it, otherwise I have no ciphers.

I like to have the spiral thing to SET things, but in other missions then Open World, I don't need the fishing rods in the wheel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd like to make one request in regards to Hold to Confirm. If it gets added to the game, can it please be used for everything that you purchase/rush with plat? I'll be honest, I still get a tinge of anxiety when clicking on certain tabs or browsing through the marketplace because I'm never 100% sure if I'll be instantly buying that item or taken to a screen with more information. And I've lost a couple of plat in the past when mass crafting a bunch of PoE/Orb Vallis resources and accidentally button mash too much, which ends up with me having rushed the last few seconds instead of claiming it (A system for queuing up items to craft and mass claim would be more ideal, but a Hold to Confirm Rush prompt would be a good compromise for now) . 

Even if there was a 1-2 second hold delay that would be enough to prevent accidental and unwanted purchases, which would especially be beneficial to new players who haven't fully grasped what all the systems in the game are and still exploring the menus. 

And of course some people may not prefer that, so there should be an option to turn it off/on in the Interface options menu. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, NoSpax said:

Hide stuff IN MISSIONS you can't even use on Click, like Ciphers
(...)
I don't need the fishing rods in the wheel.

Objection!
I used my fishing rod for goofing purposes on several occasions! If it's fun, it should be allowed to stay. Especially if unintended, practically useless and doesn't harm anyone else's game experience.

Ciphers are good for their item count.

Even Dragon Keys are useful.
"Why am I slow?!"
*checks gear* *sees no Hobbled key*
"Oh, radiation sortie."

But despite those few cases of use, all are just annoyances in most missions. Even Clem clone. And that's only because of that wheel mechanic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2020-01-25 at 5:33 AM, [DE]Pablo said:

A common approach in UX is to treat it as a conversation, in this case the player clicked on abilities, so they are asking “What are Chromas abilities?” And our answer was to show you a small picture of each one, giving you all the stats, full description, how they are affected by mods, etc. In a conversation, our answer should have been closer to “These are the abilities, do you want to know more about any of them?” then the player can say which one they want to know about. The old screen is closer to a spreadsheet, which can be a very useful and powerful tool for someone that is familiar with the data, but overwhelming for someone trying to get familiar with it.

I really like this approach, and I think it was done very well when implemented on Warframe abilities.

However, for certain other things, I think more information up front is better. Namely, I think weapon stats and end-of-mission loot info should be displayed more immediately, without having to mouseover them (for the loot) or press Tab (for the weapons). If I get loot, I'm always going to want to know what it is, and how much of it I got, right away. In the first Mission Results example screenshot, I know I got at least one Argon Crystal, but you typically need two for a weapon so I'm always going to want to know how many I got. If I'm hunting for the Ivara Prime Chassis Blueprint, its icon is the same as every other Prime Chassis Blueprint's, so I'd have to investigate to see if I got it, whereas currently I already know. In these situations, that little bit of extra info is a whole lot better.

Going back to the conversation analogy, it makes to segment some parts of the UI into "questions and answers". But if it's understood by both parties that 'A' will always want certain information, and 'B' won't reveal that info until directly asked about it, it's easy for 'A' to think that 'B' is being facetious.

Anyway, these updates look amazing. Thank-you for letting us in on these things and being such an open development team!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...