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[DE]Pablo

Why Do We UI Like We UI?

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7 hours ago, [DE]Pablo said:

Stats are being moved into their own section with a few added ones like healing done, crowd control time and damage prevented.
And we are introducing special recognition for things done during the mission, for example you might’ve found a lot of the Syndicate Medallions, revived your allies or put out a lot of fires in Railjack. We want to recognize that you aided your team there and who did the most damage isn’t the only thing that matters.

Alright, this is absolutely AMAZING Healing done stats finally being close to getting added, this is simply awesome.

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5 hours ago, Triburos said:

 

I don't disagree. Was kinda hoping the frowny face gave that away. I called out as much on my feedback on the first page in a much shorter way but I also think it is important to not just call BS on the stat. It is much more important to point out why the remaining 10% is so important to us. Also, hey love the videos.

Edited by xRufus7x

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I saw one of the first replies saying "Hide end game stats to other players, it only leads to toxicity".

I'm just here to say the complete opposite. In 6 years of playing, I can't remember more than 2 instances of toxicity due to stats being visible, whereas the number of times people have told me "Wow, you did loads of kills, thanks for the carry my man" or something similar has been happening so often that it must be in the hundreds by now.

If someone wants to talk crap to you, they will, stats or no stats. Mute them. Don't butcher the game for "muh toxicity".

Edited by Noctah
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You really need to stop with obfuscating information behind 293842 clicks and hovers, this is infinitely more annoying than having the information be given directly. Like the new end of mission screen, why remove how many you received of an item? That only hurts the end user experience. As well as with the abilities screen, it is the ABILITIES screen. You should be given the information directly when you click there, not have to go through a bunch of tiny sub menus. Like please at least use more of the screen real estate for the information for the information page, and not the panorama. Make them drop down menus or something if you have to

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Just because [DE]Steve wanted the UI to be like The Witcher 3 and Breath of the Wild does not make them Warframes' contemporaries. Destiny, The Division, Anthem, Borderlands, those are the kind of games which are your contemporaries, and though I haven't played all of them, I'd bet money that all of them have item labels.

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Can I ask for a feature?

suppose I link a relic in chat and want to check about it, I wish I could see how many intact/exceptional/flawless/radiant relic I have? Also how much traces I have left. I don't like linking [Void traces] everytime to check how much I have left.

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Most of the UI changes done so far has made it prettier but NOT more usable which contradicts the very meaning of what design stands for. Things that used to take 2-3 clicks to achieve now takes 3-4 and this is a step back when it comes to usability, not forward.

Example: The syndicate interaction screen. You used to be able to select the syndicate, you saw the reward list and you selected what to get (2 clicks) Now you select the syndicate, then you click "offerings" and then you select what to get (3 clicks) 

The proposed end mission screen sacrifice space that could be used to show information in favor of showing the frames of whoever you played with. This is not good design which add more value or information it's just there to look nice/cool.

I'm also surprised by the lack of hotkey support in Warframe whenever I interact with any screen. Why can't I use tab/shift+tab to jump between input fields or screens which are very much "tab" based? Why isn't the search field (whenever it's available) selected per default?

Please take a moment to read through Dieter Rams 10 design principles. Even though they're mostly for physical products they can very much be applied to software interface as well.

Good design:

  1. Is innovative
  2. Makes a product useful
  3. Is aesthetic
  4. Makes a product understandable
  5. Is unobtrusive
  6. Is honest
  7. Is long-lasting
  8. Is thorough down to the last detail
  9. Is environmentally friendly
  10. Involves as little design as possible

https://www.interaction-design.org/literature/article/dieter-rams-10-timeless-commandments-for-good-design

Edit: I wanted to add that these posts are appreciated. But, for the last 2-3 years it feels more like a "This is what we're going to do" post more than a genuine wish for feedback. Sorry if this sounds harsh but that's how it feels like.

Edited by Mogrol

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if we're going to talk UI, I feel like the fact that information like HP and energy is pushed so far out of the players focused vision, it's better to just get into a rhythmic pattern of self healing. With no options to move it we're stuck is a heavily dated UI that provides information as far away from player view as possible.

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I want to say about after mission screen. It is still uncomfortable. After the mission I want to see results of the mission, but this half-screen pictures of warframes with this scrolls of text are useless. I still nead scroll the collomn of text to find what I interested in

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Don't mind me, just copying my answer from another thread:

"Okay, I was thinking about it for a long time. How about an UI rework? Cause right now it's a great pain in the butt, when you literally can't just see what weapons in your arsenal have a potato. Moreover, in fissures it would be actually great to see, how much parts from the set you have - so there won't be situations, when you need two parts for something, but the screen just shows you that you already own the thing. Just make it like a little window, where under or above every prime part you see information, from what set this part is, how much parts do you have, etc.

Then, it would be great if we could just access inventory with one button, because it really gets old when you can't just sell trash blueprints from the foundry or mastered weapons from the arsenal. Or just give us the ability to sell stuff from the foundry and arsenal. And why can't we see how much slots do we have in the arsenal itself? That's just too much, man.

Another problem: when game proposes us to take a test for the mastery rank, it would be great if just under it we had a clickable link to the training mode, so we could just practice the test, until we feel confident enough to try and pass it. And it's really, really annoying that we have fail-states in the practice modes. Mastery rank test, where I had to rescue a hostage and kill a lot of guards with just melee just made me tear out my hair in frustration. Figuratively, of course, but still. Why just not make the practice mode infinite, but if the player passes the test, you just show a prompt, if the player wants to leave practice? It would a lot more practical. Just look at Hotline Miami. You're killed dozens of times, but all it takes to reset you is just one press of a button. No awful loading times and screens.

That takes me to the problem of Simulacrum. I don't actually use it at all, but I've seen from the videos that there is still no dedicated button just to reset all enemies, so everyone has to waste time to go back to the console and reset them manually. And yeah, it's already year 2020, and we still can't test the modular weapons! Why? I can't just decide if I want this combination from the sheer number, I need to feel it! Please, DE, allow us to build kitguns, zaws and amps in Simulacrum to test them out, I beg you.

As we talk about combinations, we don't have a market mode, where we can just try out everything we want. It could be tied to Simulacrum, actually, and really would improve a lot of things - for example, I want to try out different combinations of cosmetics, but I have to buy everything separately and I don't know if it will look good.

Back to Market: for some reason, Leverian is buried there. Wouldn't it be a lot better if he was situated in the Codex? When I was a newbie, I actually read every article there was to understand what to do in the game. And yeah, why we still have this annoying ???? in the Codex for mods? I want to know what every mod does and I will - I'll just have to link it in the chat, and yeah, it will waste my time, so why do we still have it? It does absolutely nothing? And it would be really, really good if you could select the mod and then click on the names of the enemies and modes below, just to check out where should we farm this mod. And drop chance with actual numbers instead of just color - I mean, "Bite" drops from Kubrow really rarely, but I have to go to the Wiki just to realize it's 0,01% drop chance. I need those numbers to realize, should I invest in the grind or not. Also, to have some system to sort mods out would be great - for example, I don't want to see the augments at all, because I just to want to check out mods that are only farmable from the enemies. And can we have the separation of enemies in the Codex? Keep usual ones and the ones from Railjack separate.

Talking about clickable, this shoud apply to the foundry to. Sometimes you don't even know where resources that we need come from - and it would be really great if we could click on them and get the information, where or from whom they drop. Like, just this week, I was building Gauss, two of his parts require materials from the Venus, but the third one needs stuff from Cetus. And I really didn't know that and I went to Fortuna just to realize that I had to go to Cetus.

Yeah, you could just say 'read the Wiki!', but come on, everything should be in the game and it should be transparent, so everyone can understand how to get things they want.

Thanks again, I hope someone will read this and adds something to my suggestions."

Edited by BloodRavenCap

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Don't fix that's not broken. Stop making UI with "hover" elements. Stop designing "sleek" look. Stop relying on pictures instead of text and labels. Stop treating us as 3-y old.

We don't need half of the space on the screen taken by warframe images. We do need our loot sorted and counted.

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9 hours ago, [DE]Pablo said:

Why does the new Railjack UI use hold to confirm?
This is another new thing we are trying with Railjack UI, confirmation popups are tried and true, but they do have some disadvantages, for example this one from polarizing Revenant.
fd7518bd9b9340183911af2a7fbd42c0.png

It tells me what will happen, but also it hides the context of what I did, I can't see the slot I polarized or the polarity I chose, I have found myself cancelling out of this out of fear that I selected the wrong polarity. Hold to confirm would preserve the context, so as you hold, you would be able see the slot and the polarity you selected.

Hold to confirm is not the only way to do that. It probably isn't even the best, especially with a mouse when it feels clumsy and almost punishes the user for clicking like most other interfaces expect, inside and outside the game. For example, you could just move the alert down a bit, and highlight the choice the user made for the new polarity. You could show "— to V" on the changed slot so the change (or no change) is immediately obvious.

On this UI, the OK/Cancel buttons are a poor choice. Buttons should be labelled with the action they will trigger, like "Purchase" or "Apply 'V' Forma"; people are more likely to read the button than the text because our eyes follow the mouse pointer.

Others have already mentioned, sadly the Railjack component and weapon UI is a good example of how not to do things. Lets go over that in more detail. First, what are our user stories?

  1. I have gotten back from a mission and I want to scrap the useless wreckage and keep the good stuff.
  2. I want to start crafting an upgrade.
  3. I want to change what I have equipped. This is rare, I don't have many spare parts crafted as there isn't much reason to use different stuff.

With the first user story being the most common, I'll just focus on that, and just for weapons to keep in concise. After switching to the weapons tab, I need to visually scan through to find new items. I have to do that by looking at the labels, because the icons are hidden behind a blotch indicating that it is not yet repaired. Having found the items, which might be split over two rows, I need to mouse over each one, press tab, and remember to plus fire rate or plus damage number. Then having read all the numbers I work out in my head which to delete, mouse over it, press tab again to make sure it's the right one, select it and scrap it. If I want to scrap more than one I start that process all over again because they don't even stay in order once I scrap one. During this I need to be careful that I'm only ever compare weapons of the same type. 28% damage is instant scrap on a Vidar Cryophon, but a near god roll on a Vidar Carcinnox, yet they will be adjacent just waiting for me to scrap the wrong item.

This just isn't good enough. The UI fails utterly to help me complete the tasks it was designed to do. If I might make a few suggestions:

  • Use a vertical scrolled list. The wrapped list means similar items are not always adjacent on the screen.
  • Show the quality of the item immediately. There would be plenty of room to list the name and bonuses in a single row. The rolled stat values are necessary information for most of the tasks within this UI, so hiding them behind a tooltip and key press is frankly bizarre.
  • Separate different types better, Cryophon vs. Carcinnox for example. Being able to filter by house isn't enough. Just a small gap or header within the list would be enough.
  • Maintain a useful and consistent order at all times. Even pick-up order would be better than random, but sorting by quality would be better.
  • If you believe that icons are good for distinguishing items, don't obscure them with a giant "not repaired" blotch.

If this Railjack UI is an example of what you're doing now, then I'm sorry but I have no faith in these changes. Fix the process that created the RJ mess, then fix the RJ mess, then move on to the rest.

Edited by Llamatronian
Clarification, typos.

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9 hours ago, Alterworld_ said:

That Kuva Anku Mag has equipped isn't supposed to be a teaser for anything, right?

Only that? and the "5 crewships sabotated" and "5 medallions found" on the same mission? Are they teasering a syndicate based empyrean mission tipe? Probably not -_- ...b25e3cfd2b562d17ab311ec8cba22780.png

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4 hours ago, xERENx said:

Oh1FJWqvXymomZOoi7xF99rDV7M8LnscVyfVRCHt

I saw it on reddit and it looks tidier and without having to give much to the mouse wheel
 

Jesus christ just THIS, a million times THIS. I want comprehensive information DE, you can achieve that while still sticking to your 'aesthetic' that you seem to value over informing players.

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9 hours ago, (XB1)XsirJoker said:

Maybe I'm not being thoughtful enough, but I really don't care if icons or stats are overwhelming to new players. It's something that we have all had to learn to deal with at one point or another, and over time they've become vital to how I play the game.

Quickly seeing the information that I desire at a glance is just so much more convenient than having to scroll over tabs or click on sub menus. It's tedium just for the sake of making things look pretty. At least give us a toggle or something so players that want the detailed stats front and center can use them.

I agree with that. And the complexity also motivates me and makes the game look more interesting because I can see that there is a lot to learn about it.

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38 minutes ago, (PS4)OmegaSlayer said:

Team screen in rewards means that we won't have the Landing Craft returning to Orbiter animation...

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Wow, I don't think in my many years of playing this game have I ever seen this animation. I also miss the cool pre-mission squad cinematic as it has been ages since I have seen the squad looking dope as we get into it.


I 100% approve of DE fixing the World State UI cause that thing has been so freaking buggy and annoying to use at times. Hoping the fissure menu looks great too. The mission stats screen hides way too much information and the whole use half of the screen to show some warframe(s) thing is not okay. I would prefer the mission stats screen stay the same till you can work on a better version with less truncated information in general.

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Sorry, but that end mission screen looks like something you'd see in Anthem. Can't you make it more like the mastery test end screen?

Nobody's really clamoring for a diorama pose-off at the end of the mission.

 

(Oh, and please move the god-damn randomize button as far away as possible from the back button. It's infuriating when I misclick it after getting a sweet fashionframe set up.)

Edited by RizzRustbolt

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I didn't know how horrid and cumbersome hold to confirm could actually be until I started playing Destiny. Please don't.

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I don't want Syndicate progress overriding weapon affinity priority in the screen. 

Also, I really dislike the teaser of the new Mastery emblem.

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I love the new end of mission screen. It looks great, can't wait to see it in game. Glad you guys are also going to put more stats for us to see, such as healing done.

 

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7 hours ago, H0LDEN said:

I also miss the cool pre-mission squad cinematic as it has been ages since I have seen the squad looking dope as we get into it.

I also miss this.

 

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A lot of players have been saying they don't prefer the dim icons before mouse over.

As for the new end-mission screen... Why waste such a big top portion on the picture than putting info there like before?

The problem with a lot of new screens are there is a huge picture on the right like syndicate or nakak etc, which is wasting space hence making people need to click more. See the problem there?

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