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Help Us Teach, Please!


Banshee256
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So, for the last few days, I've been doing a lot of Apollodorus runs, to level up weapons, forma them and then start all over. And it's been... interesting. 

 

It's the first survival mission available to new players so, naturally, there are quite a lot of new players there, that don't really know their way around Warframe. There are also a lot of veteran players there, doing the exact same thing as me. 

 

But I've noticed something during me time there; quite a lot of people don't have the faintest idea of how Survival really works. Now, I'm not talking about the Survival heroes that run ahead of everyone else or think that they get more XP if they kill everything by themselves. Those are not specific to Survival missions. I'm talking about those that do what Lotus/Rebacca tells them to do: Activate the Life Support capsules on sight. 

 

This is clearly a mistake, since a Life Support restores around 30% oxygen, but since Lotus says, and I quote: "The first capsule has arrived; activate it now" some people really think that they should be activated on sight, even if the team is at 95%. 

 

"Oh, don't worry. It's just new players that do this, they'll learn fast enough" you might think. But no. People still do it on Mimas, Saturn. In Derelict Missions. In Void Missions. This is the Internet and the Internet rules of "I'm always right and nobody can convince me otherwise" still apply, even when YouTube isn't involved. These people DO NOT listen to other players. These are the same types of people that think isn't shared or that most kills/damage matters. 

 

The only ones they'll listen to is DE. A very quick fix to this is to simply remove the part where Lotus says to activate it immediately, but I fear that some people will still blindly activate anything they can. A more helpful solution would be to include a very brief run of each type of mission in the tutorial. 

 

A one wave endless defense mission, a rescue mission where you take the hostage 20 meters (would show the hacking mechanic as well), a 20 enemy exterminate and so on and so forth.

 

Thanks for reading :)

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I had the same problem. Maybe it is our role, advanced players, to alert people to activate them only if lower than 70%. It's a part of strategy.

 

That's what I did, bringing two French newbies to Mimas (during nightmare... that was hard). Told them to stick with me or not going too far, and explained the mission first.

Edited by matto
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I had the same problem. Maybe it is our role, advanced players, to alert people to activate them only if lower than 70%. It's a part of strategy.

 

That's what I did, bringing two French newbies to Mimas (during nightmare... that was hard). Told them to stick with me or not going too far, and explained the mission first.

 

i must be teaching them wrong then i tell them to activate them at 30-40 %

 

Man today I wrote in the chat around 7 times for the guy to stop activating the capsules, he plain ignored me...

 

But most people actually listen, problem is when one person doesnt.

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So, for the last few days, I've been doing a lot of Apollodorus runs, to level up weapons, forma them and then start all over. And it's been... interesting. 

 

It's the first survival mission available to new players so, naturally, there are quite a lot of new players there, that don't really know their way around Warframe. There are also a lot of veteran players there, doing the exact same thing as me. 

 

But I've noticed something during me time there; quite a lot of people don't have the faintest idea of how Survival really works. Now, I'm not talking about the Survival heroes that run ahead of everyone else or think that they get more XP if they kill everything by themselves. Those are not specific to Survival missions. I'm talking about those that do what Lotus/Rebacca tells them to do: Activate the Life Support capsules on sight. 

 

This is clearly a mistake, since a Life Support restores around 30% oxygen, but since Lotus says, and I quote: "The first capsule has arrived; activate it now" some people really think that they should be activated on sight, even if the team is at 95%. 

 

"Oh, don't worry. It's just new players that do this, they'll learn fast enough" you might think. But no. People still do it on Mimas, Saturn. In Derelict Missions. In Void Missions. This is the Internet and the Internet rules of "I'm always right and nobody can convince me otherwise" still apply, even when YouTube isn't involved. These people DO NOT listen to other players. These are the same types of people that think isn't shared or that most kills/damage matters. 

 

The only ones they'll listen to is DE. A very quick fix to this is to simply remove the part where Lotus says to activate it immediately, but I fear that some people will still blindly activate anything they can. A more helpful solution would be to include a very brief run of each type of mission in the tutorial. 

 

A one wave endless defense mission, a rescue mission where you take the hostage 20 meters (would show the hacking mechanic as well), a 20 enemy exterminate and so on and so forth.

 

Thanks for reading :)

 

I think those are wonderful ideas for the tutorial which would need a semi major addition before they release on console IMO.

 

and every time  I notice someone acting new (or if I see by their loadout that they are new) I try to kindly suggest that we should wait till 55 or 60%.

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Or include "faulty life support" as part of mission wrinkles, coupled with the "volatile ammo stores" or "cryosystems malfunction".

 

"Be careful, Tenno. Their life-support systems are malfunctioning. I'll try to provide life support capsules until it's fixed."

And 3~5 minutes after, everything normalises.

"It seems that they've fixed their life-support systems. Continue to the objective."

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Or include "faulty life support" as part of mission wrinkles, coupled with the "volatile ammo stores" or "cryosystems malfunction".

 

"Be careful, Tenno. Their life-support systems are malfunctioning. I'll try to provide life support capsules until it's fixed."

And 3~5 minutes after, everything normalises.

"It seems that they've fixed their life-support systems. Continue to the objective."

 

cool idea, it's like the secondary missions without making the mission longer

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Ya, I don't really get the capsule spammers. Especially the ones who keep it up after you tell them not to. Back when survival was introduced, every game I went in, people just knew, you don't hit them until it gets under 20%, because it can climb all the way back up from that point with some lucky RNG on oxygen drops. Now it seems like if you don't have someone hitting them as soon as they arrive, there's someone else just waiting with baited breath for it to hit 70%.

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Ya, I don't really get the capsule spammers. Especially the ones who keep it up after you tell them not to. Back when survival was introduced, every game I went in, people just knew, you don't hit them until it gets under 20%, because it can climb all the way back up from that point with some lucky RNG on oxygen drops. Now it seems like if you don't have someone hitting them as soon as they arrive, there's someone else just waiting with baited breath for it to hit 70%.

There's no point in not activating them at 70%, the capsules spawn often enough that there's no point in waiting.  Enemy spawns on the other hand, are not nearly as consistent, and as you have noted, oxygen drops are rng.

Edited by Aggh
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Well, there is a point, and that's that I can't NOT pickup oxygen drops if I'm using carrier. Since I use survivals mainly for farming resources I usually have carrier equipped. There's no reason to hit them before 20% because, hey, 0% is a long ways away, and I'm hoovering up oxygen left and right. It's getting sucked up if we're sitting at 55% or if we're at 99%. All you are doing by hitting it at 70% is forcing me to waste oxygen drops.

 

Also, those oxygen drops could conceivably have taken us back up to 99% while still having a capsule in reserve, but I guess we'll never know.

 

:) Seriously, the above came across a little harsher on a re-read than I intended it, I just wanted to point out that A) carrier is very nice for farming but doesn't allow me to finely control oxygen pickups, and B) I've seen that meter come back from the mid 30% level all the way to 99% with out any capsules being used. It seems to me like the safest bet is to wait until it gets lower to assure that you aren't wasting oxygen, if saving oxygen is important for you.

 

Honestly, most of my time spent in survival ends at the 5, 10, or 15 minute mark, for a try at a key of choice along with my resources, and wasting all the capsules in the game has never stopped me from hitting which ever one I was aiming for.

Edited by RedDirtTrooper
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I'll admit, when survival first came out, I would listen to the lotus and activate them as soon as I reached them. of course, this was during the survival event, where we were unsure of how much oxygen everything actually replenished. I learned a couple missions later (man, that was a fun event). but this problem does persist, I've run into plenty of people who will activate capsules at sub-optimal times (above/around 70% oxygen) even on higher level survival missions. 

 

I like the idea Shion963 brought up, having the survival aspect as the intermittent secondary mission. that'll wake you up in the middle of a sabotage or what have you. plus it could provide extra experience that most missions outside survival/mobile defense/defense lack. 

 

I also really like the additional tutorials. DE should definitely consider expanding it. I mean sure, if gives you a nice overview of the interface int he current one, but they never mention wall-running, which if you don't know about it, some of those grineer ships become impossible to run (having to run up the vertical wall into vents. until I got wall-running down, I felt like an idiot in those missions). so in addition to some short introductions to various mission types, i would recommend a mini parkour course too. nothing like the dojo parkour room, just some horizontal and vertical wall-running, possibly some wall-jumping between two vertical walls. would definitely make the tutorial more fun, and maybe draw players in more because the parkour is a pretty cool feature of warframe

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Well the problem is that a lot of players just loose their minds if the oxygen is not at, at least, 80%.

 

And most of them may not have the same goals as you have. I mean, when I do a survival, it's to survive at least 15-20min. But how many times did I get cut out just because the other guys went to extraction after 5min just to complete the mission?

 

If you're an advanced player, just don't go to survival with random people. Recruit on the tchat, go private if you're only 2 or 3 so the fourth random member won't act like that. Or do it solo, I survive 20min without any trouble (sure I play Rhino in survival but...).

Edited by matto
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i must be teaching them wrong then i tell them to activate them at 30-40 %

That is perfectly fine since Oxygen supplies still do drop and gets you 3% back.

Activating at 70% would mean you're wasting those Oxygen supplies dropped from kills.

During the event I advise people to use these life support at 15% since there aren't that many given to us within 20 or so minutes.

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