Reliquary of useless abilities

[EmailSoup]

8 hours ago, kapn655321 said:

Hydroid's Undertow is a stealth and life saving function. If that was not in his kit, he'd be unplayable in high level or spy.

His kit is far different than many others, and he gets a bad wrap. He may be played foolishly, hiding behind a corner casting 4 augmented, or hiding in a puddle..
I'd be fine with them putting limits on the puddle if it would help this misconception or mis-use.. though it's the only way he can stealth and survive in many situations, so how much they can limit that directly affects this success and undermines his kit.

This is completely true. The puddle is a core aspect of Hydroid and is a powerful tool when utilized correctly. 

My issue lies in a frame built around the ability to turn into a puddle to survive. For instance, take Chroma. A very powerful frame and one of the highest damage boosting frames in the game. Useful in almost every area of the game. Objectively brainless playstyle that has nothing to do with dragons, unless the player prefers to use his underwhelming abilities. In which case he's still barely a dragon, he can just shed his skin and become a naked mole rat while a turret dragon sits around.

Then there's Hydroid, who has a fun and arguably useful kit, who's survivability relies on being a puddle. If you like turning into a puddle every now and then to survive, that's cool, but I'd rather his kit synergize with the kraken instead of the puddle. Subjectively I do not find joy in stopping momentum to become a pile of sludge in a game with extremely fun movement mechanics.

I don't think the puddle is bad, it's just extremely slow and the somewhat useful synergies it has with the rest of his kit encourages being a puddle all the time.

[kapn655321]

10 minutes ago, EmailSoup said:

This is completely true. The puddle is a core aspect of Hydroid and is a powerful tool when utilized correctly. My issue lies in a frame built around the ability to turn into a puddle to survive.

I've got a rework in mind for that, that keeps puddle. As you say, Puddle every once in a while is fine. It should never be the foremost ability in usage. I flash it on and off to set up ground finishers.. but sometimes you've gotta be able to stay down for stealth.

The problem is people see it as too slow and limiting. If he had way better options of what to do with his kit, then playing like that would be just as cheesy as an Ivara invis on a wire while they drink tea.. but no one complains about that potential, because she's more engaging than not. ...They tried to address this in Hydroid by using abilities while in puddle, but the movement speed is still a hangup. Most common answer is to just make it move faster or delete it, but like Ivara, we could just make it more interesting (as well as faster.)

Spoiler

 HYDROID: PIRATE ASSASSIN

Spoiler

(All ability values are given as unmodded value at Rank 30. All +/- with mods unless stated otherwise.)
(~Tide = "Depending Tide level in meter.")

PASSIVE:  THE TIDE   
Hydroid's abilities actively spawn Pool(s)Of Water and value
toward a Tide meter, earned from making enemies "Wet."
Abilities increase in Range with Tide.
Enemies become, "Wet," from abilities.
^{*"The faint sound of a distant Ship Bell's clang," alerts player to having fallen below 12.5% Tide.}

Spoiler

*Tide Meter: (1.00 to 100)  

Passively generates 1.3 Tide per second (toward a maximum of 100 points) in a Tide meter.
Meter is replenished for each enemy, "Wet," (affected or hit) by Hydroid's abilities.
Each enemy that receives a, "Wet," status gives +2 Tide.
These enemies generate an additional 1.3 Tide _{per second} for Hydroid's Tide.
"Wet," enemies have a chance to suffer brief Weapon Malfunction;
If killed (while "Wet,") enemies have a increased chance to drop Energy orbs.

^{Range increase                                            (+0% to +20% ~Tide)
Chance to drop Energy Orb                        +1% to +20%  ~Tide (max.cap. +20% from any Tide sources.)
Chance for Weapon Malfunction               +1% to +20% ~Tide (max.cap. 20% per player, +5% from Specter, 80%max.total.)
Malfunction rate                                          Every 6s-3s ~Tide
Duration of effect                                                   4s-8s ~Tide}

Abilities leave Pool(s) Of Water.

Spoiler

(Ground Slams during "PIRATE MODE," may add Tentacle.)

When enemies come in contact with Pool(s) Of Water, they become, "Wet,"
^{and suffer either a brief Stagger(w/ -Friction), or Knockdown.}
Each Pool Of Water may only, "Wet," as many as 2 enemies.

^{Possibly disregard*: Needs review:} "Wet," enemies have (1% to 8% ~Tide) chance of generating
a new Pool at their feet every 3s. Enemies may only be wet by a Pool once every 18s.

The Size, Lifespan, and Max# of Pool(s) determined by Tide.

^{Size             2m to 4m ~Tide
Lifespan       3s to 6s ~Tide
Max#              3 to 6 ~Tide}

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TEMPEST BARRAGE:
Target area with pouring rain.
Improves stealth conditions while impairing enemy movement & response.
^{Disables cameras; reveals fish in bodies of water. Does not alert enemies.}

Spoiler

(Hold-to-charge time decreased to 1.8s instead of 3s.)
(1% - 100% ~Tide) Chance to leave Pool Of Water every 3s.
This ability stacks Duration up to 3 times when cast on itself.
You may have up to 3 active (instances or stacks total,) Tempest Barrage at any time.
(*Deals no Damage.. there's a darn good reason later.)

^{Drain                                                                      25 to 50 (charged)
Radius                                                                 10m to 15m ~Tide
Duration                                                                 5s to 10s (charged)
Enemy Damage/Movement Speed                     -20%   (max.cap. -70%)
Enemy Sight/Sound Detection                            -40%  (max.cap. -90%)}

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TIDAL SURGE:
"Crash through enemies in a ferocious wall of water."
(Movement style similar to, Wukong's "Cloud Walker," but limited by Gravity.)

Spoiler

^{Energy Cost                                                            50
Strength                                                                  300
Range                                                            6m (striking radius from center *depending Angle)
Angle                                                                   30 to 90 degree ~Tide
Distance                                                                 30m (per second)
Duration                                                                   1s (wave duration)}

HOLD-TO-CAST:
Remain stationary issuing waves forward, instead of becoming the wave.

Spoiler

Consumes portion of Tide while returning a portion of Energy cost per enemy hit.

^{Tide Consumed/Energy Returned                    6% to 20% ~Tide}

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UNDERTOW:
^{"Become a water trap and drown unsuspecting enemies."}
Undertow augments functions of other abilities while active.
On the surface, it's the same, but there is a complex layer just beneath.
This state is now referred to as, "THE SHALLOWS."
 

Spoiler

^{Energy Drain                                                          - as is -
Damage, "Tick," rate                                   +0% to +20% ~Tide
Grab Cost                                                              - as is -
Meters per Energy                                                      "
Strength                                                                      "
Duration                                                                      "
Range                                                                         "   
Pressing Jump while in "THE SHALLOWS," of Undertow will now also exit/end Undertow.}

Pressing crouch withdraws Radius by 30%. Hydroid's passive Tide generation increases by +3 per second.

*Casting Tempest Barrage from within, "THE SHALLOWS,":

Spoiler

Cast instance of Tempest Barrage receives Bonus 50% chance-to-spawn:
(0 to 2 additional) Pool(s) Of Water once every 5s.
^{Range                                                           +10% to +30% ~Tide
Duration of bonus                                             3s to 6s ~Tide}

 HOLD-TO-CAST: Increase Range of Undertow 15% while-charging.
Tempest Barrage receives a brief additional bonus to Range.

*Casting Tidal Surge from within, "THE SHALLOWS.":

Spoiler

(As is, +15% base Distance .)

HOLD-TO-CAST:
Cast a wave(as you would outside of Undertow) from Undertow's outer edge. (camera=forward)
Radius of A.o.E. wave equal to **Movement Wave Aura. (listed below, under: Tidal Surge (PIRATE MODE)

Tap-To-Cast while Tidal Surge/"Tidal Wave" is active to Blink Undertow's location to that of the most recent wave.

*Casting Riptide from within, "THE SHALLOWS.":

Spoiler

Tap-To-Cast on target surface to cast Riptide.
Aim camera down at center of Undertow, (or hold Zoom)
while casting Riptide to convert Undertow's surface into Whirlpool,
gaining Whirlpool's Damage tick increase bonus from Tide

 

HOLD-TO-CAST: Spend portion of Tide to cast Pool(s) Of Water.

Spoiler

^{Tide Cost                                                            6% to 20% ~Tide
Pool(s) Of Water                                                   1 to 3 ~Tide}

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RIPTIDE:
Cast a Whirlpool on target.
Acts similar to Undertow, but independent with new properties.

You may enter any instance of Whirlpool as though it were Undertow.

Spoiler

*Unlike Undertow, enemy auras do not transmit through.
Cast on target area. (Same with Tentacle Swarm, as though it were charged for range.)
Radius on cast is +50%, shrinking to normal sustained size at it's center over 3s.
^{Damage                                                                      25  (+2% per second)
Damage (per, "tick.")                                            +1% to +20% ~Tide
Duration                                                                      20s
Radius                                                                          6m
Tap-to-cast on target active Whirlpool to dismiss, consuming remaining time as Tide.}

Entering Whirlpool:

Spoiler

Doing so engages Undertow as active, beginning it's Energy drain cost, but also adding the
~Tide bonus (Damage, "tick," rate increase,) of Undertow to Whirlpool(s).
Damage equal to Undertow's Damage, not including Undertow's Tide Tick-Rate bonus.

 

Casting Tempest Barrage onto any active Whirlpool

Spoiler

generates an additional 1.3 Tide per second.
This generation stacks (times active stacks of Tempest Barrage) active at Whirlpool(s), up to 3 times. 

Casting Tidal Surge across/into any active Whirlpool(s)

Spoiler

will give 1 to 5 Tide, depending current Range stat of that wave:
           ^{<3.5m = +1 Tide
3.5m to 5.5m = +2 Tide
5.6m to 7.5m = +3 Tide
7.6m to 9.5m = +4 Tide
           >9.5m = +5 Tide}

If any enemies are present within the Whirlpool,
one enemy (at random) will be withdrawn from Whirlpool by the wave;
encapsulated in suspended water as a giant clear drop/orb/glob (of water,) referred to as, "Rising Depths."
^{Enemies within "Rising Depths," continue to take damage as they would within Whirlpool.}

Spoiler

 While suspended, enemies are Blinded, open to Finishers/Finisher Damage.
Enemies killed while in, "Rising Depths," grant bonuses on death (to self or ally responsible):
(Does not stack.)

^{Status (affliction) Duration                                 -30% to -60% ~Tide
Damage Reduction                                           +15% to +30% ~Tide
Evasion                                                              +10% to +20% ~Tide
Duration of bonus                                                 10s to 20s ~Tide}

*Casting Tidal Surge at any active instance of, "Rising Depths,"
will deal it's Damage as Finisher Damage.
Tidal Surge's wave's Damage adds that
(Damage dealt to the enemy within, "Rising Depths,") to it's own.
From this point, the wave increases in Duration(1st) and Range(2nd),
converting the instance of, "Rising Depths," into bonus; creating a, "Tidal Wave."
 

^{"Tidal Wave," Duration increase             2x remaining Duration of Tidal Surge wave.
"Tidal Wave," Range increase                   (2x Range) x (improved remaining Duration.)}

This enemies will then act as they would, as if hit with any other Tidal Surge wave.   

 

 

HOLD-TO-CAST Riptide to toggle PIRATE MODE channeled state.
PIRATE MODE: Activate a channeled state for Hydroid,
giving bonuses and augmented functions to all other abilities.
While active, Hydroid receives Evasion.
Enables: "THE DEEP."

Spoiler

(PIRATE MODE channel is Not deactivated by Nullifier fields.)
HOLD-TO-CAST Riptide will always toggle PIRATE MODE.
(On, always with casting cost; off, never having any casting cost.)

^{Bonuses:
+40% to +65% Evasion ~Tide
Channel cost is reduced ~Tide, inversely.
Lower Tide = cheaper (by up to 20% Efficiency). "Going Ashore."}

When casting Riptide during PIRATE MODE:
You may have as many as 2 Whirlpools active, if Tide is not below 50% (for >5s.)

Upon activating PIRATE MODE, The Kraken's Tentacles spring up from all active Whirlpool(s).
All Instances of (player's) Undertow & Whirlpool, "open up," with a new area & method of actively engaging enemies beneath the, "water's," surface.
This state is referred to as, "THE DEEP."

Spoiler

THE DEEP: A "Room," with an invisible boundary,
 shaped similar to the inside of a shallow "Erlenmeyer flask,"
(roughly 2x the size of Undertow/Whirlpool surface area)
surrounded by an, "under water," skybox, as a seemingly endless ocean to all sides and beneath you.
Enemies are deposited into the same instance of, "THE DEEP," from any Undertow/Whirlpool you cast.
All enemies within, "THE DEEP," are as Lifted.
All abilities are augmented have different functions within, "THE DEEP."

Kraken behavior:
Tentacles deal 100 Impact / 100 Magnetic / 100 Viral per second.
     
     ^{-During Low Tide, The Kraken grabs up enemies as flails them around the environment.
       (Similar to Tentacle Swarm as is.)
    
     -During High Tide, The Kraken pulls enemies into the Whirlpool,
       (Similar to as-cast-from-Undertow has a chance of doing now.)}

Behavior of, "Flail enemies," or, "Dunk enemies," scales in chance,
performing either action more, or less often ~Tide.
^{Example: At 50% Tide meter, it will be random in it's decision to, "Flail/Dunk," enemies held.}

Within THE DEEP is also, The whole Kraken, with homing tentacles beneath the waves.
Tentacles will reach out once every 6s passively taking hold of up to 2 enemies within THE DEEP each time.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tempest Barrage (PIRATE MODE)
(All new functions added onto the Non-PIRATE MODE functions.)
Volleys of Grapeshot are aimed directly at enemies (or target area).

Spoiler

Repeated casts within 5s lose 30% Accuracy.
Projectiles fall at erratic intervals worth 20% value per second.
Projectile count is additive per stack. (14/28/42)
Visual of, "Ghost Ship," appears to fire cannons behind Hydroid, fading promptly away into fog.
Does alert enemies.

^{Damage                                                                      100
Projectiles                         14 x Power Strength + Radius Divided across Targets (or Area).
Multishot                                                                  0 to 100% ~Tide
"Shattering Impact"                                                     1 to 10 ~Tide
(Shattering Impact value effects Eidolons.)}

Environmental strikes have AoE as it is now; strikes against enemies have +2 Punch Through instead of AoE.

 

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Tidal Surge (PIRATE MODE)
(HOLD-TO-CAST from Non-PIRATE MODE becomes Tap-To-Cast.)
Waves now consume 50% less Tide.
Hydroid receives +Movement Speed bonus

Spoiler

equal to 50% of Tidal Surge's movement rate (meter per sec.)
Waves will remain inert at your feet until you move, causing them to crash in place around you.
All bonus effects stack one additional time (Maximum 2 stacks total) and are removed by Nullifier fields.


^{Inert Wave Aura                                10% of Tidal Surge current striking radius  (20% on stack 2.)
**Movement Wave Aura                    30% of Tidal Surge current striking radius  (60% on stack 2.)}

HOLD-TO-CAST:
Become, "The Thing from THE DEEP."
Summon (quasi-exalted) Tentacles for arms.

Spoiler

(3 per 'arm'), writhing and curling around each other.
(Similar to Saryn Prime's tendril like "hair."
One Tentacle has a hook for a, "hand.")

All attacks as, "The Thing From THE DEEP," (including Secondary Fire,)
cause enemies to become, "Wet."

"The Thing From THE DEEP," is not cancelled by Nullifier fields.
This state ends upon:
(Hold-to-) Re-Cast,
(When PIRATE MODE has ended,)
or when you run out of either Energy or Tide.

Spoiler

(Attacks per arm follow separate combos. No Combo Counter Meter in this mode.. yet.)

STANCE                 MELEE CLASS       COMBO NAME
Coiling Viper                  Whip                 Whistling Wind
Burning Wasp                Whip                Sparking Torture
"                "                        "                       Buzzing Sting
Homing Fang                Daggers                  Life Eater
Four Rider                      Claws             Aggravated Swarm
Malicious Raptor          Claws                   Wicked Slash
*Cyclone Kraken         Machetes           Leviathan Rain  (Available >50% ~Tide)
*Vulpine Mask             Rapiers               Assailant Guise (Available >75% ~Tide)

Wave determined by: 30% Tidal Surge ability stats, +30% for each current Tidal Surge movement bonus stack level.)

Unique Heavy Attack: "Hook Hand,"
Commands Arm-Tentacles to automatically pull nearby enemies to you (prone).
(Range equal to Undertow "Grab" Tentacles.)


Secondary Fire: Consume 50% Tide to throw a Trident that heals you on hit.
200 Puncture base Damage. Briefly pins enemies to the ground (prone) for 3s.

Spoiler

^{However, the numeric value of Power Strength and  determine the total actual.)
Damage =  200 Puncture *X*Y
(Power Strength#) = X
(%Tide# x 0.001) = Y
Health = Damage Dealt x (0.01% to 0.05% ~Tide) + (25 to 50 ~Tide)
(Throw similar to Javlok)
(Pinning similar to one of Nezha's "Divine Spears.")
If killed on strike, can pin enemies to walls. (Similar to Boltor.)}

 

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Undertow (PIRATE MODE)
Undertow remains as you go beneath it.
You may now pan the camera down beneath, "THE SHALLOWS," to enter, "THE DEEP."

Hold-To-Cast:  Blink to target (or nearest) active Whirlpool.

Spoiler

Movement within THE DEEP:
"Combine Archwing's movement with Ecco: The DolphinTM..." -says Absolute Mad man.
Very light momentum, way more, "swimmy." (No Archwing is used in this state, just it's movement.)
Perform basic strikes and slap attacks (a.k.a. archmelee) with Tentacle arms present as, "The Thing From THE DEEP."

Abilities are now different:
Cast Tempest Barrage to command The Kraken to, "crush," all enemies in it's grasp:
         Surge 250 Viral/1000 Impact @ 40% to 90% Status Chance (~Tide) once, to all enemies. (+50% Energy cost; 4s cooldown.)

Cast Tidal Surge to Blink to target area within, "THE DEEP,"
^{or (nearest enemy dealing it's Damage as Magnetic,)}
or aim up to Blink to, "THE SHALLOWS." 
^{(This move is a little like Blink,
a little like Ash's, "Teleport,"
a little like Ecco the Dolphin's dash move..)}
-50% Energy cost to cast.

HOLD-TO-CAST Undertow creates an 'enemy vacuum',
pulling to you all enemies within, "THE DEEP," not currently held by The Kraken.

Leaving, "THE DEEP," will occur from:
     -Tap-To-Cast Undertow to exit at the nearest Undertow (priority)
       or Whirlpool for No (0) Energy cost.
     -Automatically exit, "THE DEEP," (either into, "THE SHALLOWS," or entirely,)
      upon running out of either Energy or Tide, or upon deactivation of PIRATE MODE.
     -Nullifier fields coming in contact with Undertow,
       or a single Whirlpool presently serving as the only, "portal," to, "THE DEEP." 

 

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Special Thanks To:

Spoiler

NuclearCoffeePot (for Tide and several other concepts.)
Tsukoyomi_GR (for "Rising Depths" and inspiration for Trident.)
(NSW)SantCruz (for pushing me to make Hydroid more Lethal!)
Hadammants
(NSW)DEADSHOT500
Klaleara (for the Ship firing cannons and punchthrough to Tempest Barrage)
keikogi (for formatting advice)
TheGodofWiFi (for generally disagreeing, but in an instructive way)

and MANY many others for their vital feedback and discussion! 

Thanks to all of the members of the forums and players through the years, and their spectacular imaginations.
Ideas are ultimately my take on the suggestions of other players and forum members over a series of months and threads.
If you want credit for an idea that you feel was yours that I haven't cited, Let me know.
The idea to keep track of who mentioned what came to far later than I wish it did. 

 

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

On 2020-01-25 at 12:19 PM, Ver1dian said:

Nekros' 1 and 2

Limbo's 3

Frost's 2

Banshee

Every non-augmented Hydroid ability

Inaros' 3

Valkyr's 1 and 2 

 

Frost's 2? Are you nuts. Banshee, Hydroi...you need practice.

[JawNuts]

Vauban's gimmick balls

Banshee's 1 (it's cool looking tho)

Garuda's 3 - go kill yo self! (if you double press)

Grendel's 2 3 and 4 - Can't do sh*t if you haven't eaten

[Veridian]

4 hours ago, (PS4)GEN-Son_17 said:

Frost's 2? Are you nuts. Banshee, Hydroi...you need practice.

How am I nuts,  the abilities are underwhelming at best and half of those are gimmicks.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

10 hours ago, p_silveira said:

They could, in the future, add that Revenant had a "vampire theme" before being corrupted by the Eidolon into becoming what he is today, and that the vampire abilities are what remains of his "old self". I don't really like the vampire theme either, but if they want, they can put it on his lore very easily. Hope they don't, but still...

I JUST explained how that doesn’t make sense either. Because if they wanted to make a vampire frame then it makes no sense to have his backstory be directly tied to something that has absolutely nothing to do with vampires. It makes zero sense for the game to be like “This Frame was corrupted by the Eidolons energy for thousands of years, and he got absolutely nothing from it.”

[RunningChaos]

On 2020-01-25 at 9:53 PM, TARINunit9 said:

Someone has no idea how to play Revenant beyond p4tw. Mesmer Skin is one of this game's better tanking abilities, and Reave will easily get you back what little health you might lose in case you're running solo

People just don't know how to play Revenant. Everyone says Enthrall is crap. I use it in groups so my allies don't get killed by a high damage enemy (I don't care if they kill the thralls) and in solo that high damage enemy fights for me.

What can I say about Mesmer Skin. Basically Warframe on easy mode, if you know what you are doing.

[vegetosayajin]

1. Chroma's vomit
2. Valkyr's pirate hook(now available in itzal for a discount of ffs$)
2. Grendel
3. Banshee's twerk - no use rn, except if it's reworked.
4. Excalibro's 3...I wished it worked, but alas.
5. Hildryn's poopshooters
6. Half of Inaros's kit
7. Mag's slap(4)
8. Vauban's speed pad...
9. Zephir's 1 on normal missions... 

[SneakyErvin]

13 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

The Orokin did not create an Eidolon frame. They created a frame who’s theme doesn’t matter because the important part of their backstory is them being taken and corrupted by Eidolon energy. So it was the Sentients who corrupted a Warframe and turned it into an Eidolon frame. Or atleast it should’ve been an Eidolon frame but Rebecca wanted him to be a vampire frame because apparently a Warframe modeled after a boss is too cool a thing for us to have.

But he isnt actively created by the sentients. He is an "accident" much like the eidolons, they werent built either, they came to life on their own after the massive (understatement of the year) sentient that attacked the plains died. So the vampiric part of him is in the Orokin design, then the visual theme comes from the eidolons.

And last I checked, codename Vlad appeared first, with massive mind control and other vampire related things. So there is a fair chance he's been tied to both at all times, given his aestethics have never been that of a vampire but more of a ghost, a possessed suit of armor or straight up, you know, a revenant.

Both themes are very much there in the frame.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

But he isnt actively created by the sentients. He is an "accident" much like the eidolons, they werent built either, they came to life on their own after the massive (understatement of the year) sentient that attacked the plains died. So the vampiric part of him is in the Orokin design, then the visual theme comes from the eidolons.

And last I checked, codename Vlad appeared first, with massive mind control and other vampire related things. So there is a fair chance he's been tied to both at all times, given his aestethics have never been that of a vampire but more of a ghost, a possessed suit of armor or straight up, you know, a revenant.

Both themes are very much there in the frame.

I don’t take names into consideration when debating theme. Gauss has nothing to do with magnetic induction, Garuda isn’t a Japanese bird god, Valkyr doesn’t wear a horned helmet and sing opera music. They’re just names. And honestly Revenants name is pretty boring. It’s the name you give generic undead enemies in fantasy RPGs. A name like Revelyst would at least be paying respect to the fact that every sentient units name ends with -lyst.

 It is literally just pure speculation of what Revenant was prior to being turned by the Eidolons. It was never mentioned anywhere in his backstory. And that’s because it doesn’t matter what he was before, because his defining trait now is that he was corrupted by Eidolons energy. So having abilities never used by Eidolons or Sentients makes absolutely zero sense. Because what was the point of DE creating this backstory if there was no intention to respect that created backstory and instead take the frames abilities an a direction that is completely disconnected from his lore.

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

I don’t take names into consideration when debating theme. Gauss has nothing to do with magnetic induction, Garuda isn’t a Japanese bird god, Valkyr doesn’t wear a horned helmet and sing opera music. They’re just names. And honestly Revenants name is pretty boring. It’s the name you give generic undead enemies in fantasy RPGs. A name like Revelyst would at least be paying respect to the fact that every sentient units name ends with -lyst.

 It is literally just pure speculation of what Revenant was prior to being turned by the Eidolons. It was never mentioned anywhere in his backstory. And that’s because it doesn’t matter what he was before, because his defining trait now is that he was corrupted by Eidolons energy. So having abilities never used by Eidolons or Sentients makes absolutely zero sense. Because what was the point of DE creating this backstory if there was no intention to respect that created backstory and instead take the frames abilities an a direction that is completely disconnected from his lore.

But the name of him is not connected to eidolons because he is a warframe first and foremost.

And the respect in the backstory is there, he got "created" just like the eidolons i.e he and they became "undead". The eidolons didnt get anything special in the process either, they are simply bits and pieces of a dead sentient that have come to unlife seperately. So there is no logic in giving Rev any actual ability traits tied to eidolons outside of smaller visual variances, like his synovia mesmer skin part or the aestethic theme of danse. That is because he doesnt come from parts that once belonged to a now dead massive sentient.

There was no turning done by the eidolons, they just got back to life in the same way as Rev did. They were all very dead and somehow came back to unlife. Do you want him to somehow grow an arm-cannon out of nothing when the eidolons have them because they were simply part of the arsenal of the dead sentient where the cannon actually exsisted?

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

57 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

But the name of him is not connected to eidolons because he is a warframe first and foremost.

And the respect in the backstory is there, he got "created" just like the eidolons i.e he and they became "undead". The eidolons didnt get anything special in the process either, they are simply bits and pieces of a dead sentient that have come to unlife seperately. So there is no logic in giving Rev any actual ability traits tied to eidolons outside of smaller visual variances, like his synovia mesmer skin part or the aestethic theme of danse. That is because he doesnt come from parts that once belonged to a now dead massive sentient.

There was no turning done by the eidolons, they just got back to life in the same way as Rev did. They were all very dead and somehow came back to unlife. Do you want him to somehow grow an arm-cannon out of nothing when the eidolons have them because they were simply part of the arsenal of the dead sentient where the cannon actually exsisted?

I don’t know how you can say “He can look like an Eidolon but he doesn’t have to do Eidolon/sentient type things” with a straight face. He’s one of the 2 frames in the game based off an enemy faction and yet his abilities have absolutely nothing to do with that faction. Nidus may not be firing off gas clouds and such, but at least his whole “growing and spreading” theme goes in line with the infested. Eidolons don’t Mind Control people, Eidolons don’t steal your health from you. Eidolons don’t put you to sleep. Eidolons shoot lasers. And if that isn’t enough to build a Warframe off of then they could’ve easily taken from the other sentient enemies and not make Revenant a vampire with no justification outside of “Rebecca wanted a vampire”.

Mesmer Skin is not the Eidolons synovia. The synovia don’t break after one hit (ok well technically they do when you’re using the right setup for tricaps), they actually have a health bar. Fricken Nidus’s passive is a better representation of synovia than Mesmer skin and he’s a not even Eidolon themed.

[Sunai_Moonswing]

I'm going to only comment on frames I use, and have at least performed one level 5 kuva lich take downs with, or similar level 100 mission. 

 

Ash's 1. The shuriken just has little to no use to me. 

 

Atlas' gaze. When you have the augment for his 1, why stare at your enemies when you can punch them, turn them to stone and punch them again 20 times harder? 

 

Banshee. Her 1 and her 3 are fairly situational. I tend to play her with her sonar augment, usually engaging in lengthy firefights from cover. Her 1 usually allows me to push forward into a room. The stun of her 3 just isn't long enough to do anything more than bullet jump in and out of rooms. And even then, if the room is too big, I get shot. 

 

Buruuk's 4. While the ability fits his style, it doesn't fit my style. Used him to take down Sargas Ruk for the sortie yesterday.

 

Ember's 1. Why throw a single fireball when you can throw FIREBALLS AT EVERYONE AT ONCE?! 

 

Equinox's 4, the healing one, not wind me up nuke. 

 

Frost's 1. Everyone can throw snowballs. 

 

Gara's 1. Only time I need it is if I want to bother with shattering her glass prison. 

 

Gauss' 3. It's the least speed related ability, it would make more sense if it stayed centered on the warframe, rather than a slow zone you put down. 

 

Harrow's ability sounds.

 

Ivara's noise arrow. 

 

Limbo's 3. Why not pull them into the rift too? 

 

Loki's 1. Only time it's useful, is when speending through spy vaults and teleporting into areas that don't have anyone to switch teleport with. 

 

Mag's 2. Despite how fun it sounds and can be, there are too many mishaps of enemies shooting or walking through it. 

 

Mesa's 1. Same comment as everyone else. 

 

Mirage's 2. I love using it, but it's currently bugged and enemies keep using the consoles even after it's blown up in their faces, resulting in very frequent lockdowns. 

 

Nekros' 1. The augment on it doesn't work in arbitrations either.. 

 

Nyx's 2. Unless it synergizes with her 1 and I'm not aware of it? Her 4 is pretty bad, I usually get killed the moment I let it go. While those who charged it get away without punishment. 

 

Octavia's 2. The whole idea is to have a boombox. That stays inside of the circle of her 4. But, it has a mind of its own, and will just roam the map instead. 

 

Revenant's 3. In combat, it's kind of unnecessary. The rest works. 

 

Rhino's 1. You can run while using like 20 energy? You can bullet jump too. Guess which one I'm using. 

 

Saryn's 3. Why buff your weapons when everything within 40 meters is already dying?

 

Titania's 3. It has a strict limit as to how many can become focused on the lantern. And those spellbound still count as interested in the lantern. 

 

Trinity's 1. Unless you need to lock down two people, or your lich. 

 

Valkyr's 3. Stun isn't long enough to be viable.

 

Vauban's 3. It's the only grenade you can't lob as far as you want. 

 

Volt's 1. Same as the other elemental warframes. Why give a single bolt of lightning, when you can do it to an entire room? 

 

Wisp's 3. I ain't got no range on my build, what am I going to do, throw glitter at people's faces? This ain't Little Miss Fortune! (still love both) 

 

Wukong's 4. You summon a staff? Here, try this one I made just for you. 

 

Zephyr's 2. Yes I casted you at a tornado, by did you home in on one of the guys in the tornado without making it grow? 

 

 

Some of them are more snide than others. Just thought it would fit with the mood in here. 

[BlueFan99]

Most first abilities are usless 

[Serafim_94]

People on the first page dissing Rev's Mesmer skin are insane. It makes Revenant quite literally unable to die while the charges remain. He'll survive any damage stuck at 2 HP. You don't get defensive abilities better than literal immortality.

[IIDMOII]

Here are abilities I find useless or simply don't use;

Inaros - 2

Chroma - 1, 2 & 4 

Valkyr - 1

Wukong - post rework 3

Mesa - 1

Limbo - 1 & 3

Nekros - 1 & 2

 

Frames with solid 4 button kits;

- nidus

- Nezha

- Oberon

 

Frames I wouldn't play without an entire rework or ever;

- Most everything else. Especially old frames like Nyx, Banshee, nova, mag, ash, vauban, loki etc. Most of the old frames don't have a unique identity, are thematically silly or simply not as good as newer ones imo.

- ivaras kit is pretty useless to me

- Garuda and Grendel are interesting but there are better choices.

- Revenant is total garbage. He's benched until a rework.

 

Edited January 27, 2020 by IIDMOII

[Butterfly85]

2 hours ago, Serafim_94 said:

People on the first page dissing Rev's Mesmer skin are insane. It makes Revenant quite literally unable to die while the charges remain. He'll survive any damage stuck at 2 HP. You don't get defensive abilities better than literal immortality.

This, plus the fact that you stun enemies when you reflect damage through this ability. I've been taking him to Veil tier Railjack for this and his 4 for shredding mobs.

[(XBOX)Skippy575]

On 2020-01-26 at 12:01 PM, TARINunit9 said:

OK if your not going to take my previous posts into account where I explained that before 1897 Ghouls and Vampires were usually the same creature, I think we should just stop talking to each other

I never expected to change your opinion on Revenant, but I hoped to at least explain what the devs were going for

There's no reasoning with Gears when you get on the Revenant subject. You're better off having a conversation with a brick wall. It's the same end result.

[SneakyErvin]

4 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

I don’t know how you can say “He can look like an Eidolon but he doesn’t have to do Eidolon/sentient type things” with a straight face. He’s one of the 2 frames in the game based off an enemy faction and yet his abilities have absolutely nothing to do with that faction. Nidus may not be firing off gas clouds and such, but at least his whole “growing and spreading” theme goes in line with the infested. Eidolons don’t Mind Control people, Eidolons don’t steal your health from you. Eidolons don’t put you to sleep. Eidolons shoot lasers. And if that isn’t enough to build a Warframe off of then they could’ve easily taken from the other sentient enemies and not make Revenant a vampire with no justification outside of “Rebecca wanted a vampire”.

Mesmer Skin is not the Eidolons synovia. The synovia don’t break after one hit (ok well technically they do when you’re using the right setup for tricaps), they actually have a health bar. Fricken Nidus’s passive is a better representation of synovia than Mesmer skin and he’s a not even Eidolon themed.

But Nidus isnt an infested frame, he is an Orokin built frame where they are trying to stretch the use of the Helminth strain. He is made like that in a lab, he is not a frame that got infected by the infested and their strain. Eidolons shooting lasers is because they carry massive cannons that shoots lasers, cannons that were part of the dead sentient. The eidolons are more or less walking portside cannons or something, everything they are comes from the sentient that Gara blew up. Something on earth made them tick again and reasemble as much as they could. In reality they are zombies of the once massive sentient and nothing like a sentient at all. They are mindless shambling giants that follow some very basic root programming, much like how Rev reverted to some basic defender state when he no longer had an operator to control him. Rev is a resurrected WF, not some piece of a dead sentient. He wont have access to a massive laser cannon or other sentient specific weaponry or defenses.

The basic Rev i.e the Orokin made Rev, he/it controls people, cant suck the life force out of them and has a massive defensive shield to protect him, aswell as Dr. Doom's finger lasers. And no, Mesmer Skin is not the synovia, it has the appearance of the other "synovia" on eidolons, not the actual synovia that is the joint. It is likely wrong to refer to the drippy looking crystaline formation on eidolons and Rev as synovias. People likely did it because they dont know what the word actually means and thinks it is some made up thing and the name of all odd looking things on an eidolon. And we dont know if that drippy drop looking crystaline thing is sentient (likely not since it is seen nowhere else) or if it is a product of the re-animation process that took place on the plains.

There is no lore to justify anything that you want Rev to be. It just wouldnt work. If the sentient would be able to willingly corrupt or change a frame to be like them, then the whole point of warframes and the idea that sentients actually fear them would be gone. Especially when some no-name D-list zombie A.I could have that effect. If such a thing would happen, out tenno would likely not be able to control it either. So Rev is an eidolon frame in the sense that he got re-animated through the same source that they did, nothing more.

 

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

 

There is no lore to justify anything that you want Rev to be. It just wouldnt work. If the sentient would be able to willingly corrupt or change a frame to be like them, then the whole point of warframes and the idea that sentients actually fear them would be gone. Especially when some no-name D-list zombie A.I could have that effect. If such a thing would happen, out tenno would likely not be able to control it either. So Rev is an eidolon frame in the sense that he got re-animated through the same source that they did, nothing more.

 

Warframe corrupted by Eidolon energy. So much so that it physically alters his appearance. How much lore do you need to tell you that this frame should be purely Eidolons themed? It doesn’t matter if the Orokin built him, all frames are built by the Orokin. But that doesn’t suddenly mean they can’t have something happen to them that changes the initial frames design and function. Like Valkyr was a completely different frame before the Corpus got ahold of her and tortured her into becoming a rage filled killing machine.

We’re not talking about a little tap and suddenly a Warframe can become a sentient. It took years of constant bombardment of sentient energy to transform Revenant into his current physical form. And it’s far more reasonable that he also got sentient attributes and abilities out of it as well instead of getting vampire powers out of bumf**king nowhere.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

5 hours ago, Serafim_94 said:

People on the first page dissing Rev's Mesmer skin are insane. It makes Revenant quite literally unable to die while the charges remain. He'll survive any damage stuck at 2 HP. You don't get defensive abilities better than literal immortality.

Except it’s not literal immortality. You can’t stand in the middle of a room and just not die. Revenant will eventually have to recast Mesmer skin and have to recast it far sooner than other frames (he also has to run away to do it because recasting it makes him vulnerable. You know, because all great tanks are known for their need to run away, oh wait no they’re not). Because while the DR scales indefinitely the duration and durability of the ability does not.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

3 hours ago, (XB1)Skippy575 said:

There's no reasoning with Gears when you get on the Revenant subject. You're better off having a conversation with a brick wall. It's the same end result.

That’s on them, not me. I’m trying to be informative and tell them why Revenants theme and design are terrible and irrational. But they’d rather just call me stupid.

either way free rep.

[Serafim_94]

41 минуту назад, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 сказал:

Except it’s not literal immortality. You can’t stand in the middle of a room and just not die. Revenant will eventually have to recast Mesmer skin and have to recast it far sooner than other frames (he also has to run away to do it because recasting it makes him vulnerable. You know, because all great tanks are known for their need to run away, oh wait no they’re not). Because while the DR scales indefinitely the duration and durability of the ability does not.

Oh, the horror. You need to CAST ABILITIES??? IN MUH WARFRAME? What's next, need to move? Or, god forbid, DODGE? Unbelievable.

Also, I never called Revenant a tank, same way I don't consider Mesa one. They are DPS frames with great survivability. No need for Inaros-level bullS#&amp;&#036;.

[spirit_of_76]

On 2020-01-25 at 12:35 PM, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Mesmer Skin

Mesmer skin has a use, High end index and that is a bout it

[IllogicalLogic420]

Was gonna make a post about this, glad to see someone did. I definitely wanna say, Chroma's dragon breath is utterly useless. Does anyone even use it? No. Lol.