Do primaries/secondaries need a buff?

[Corvid]

15 hours ago, (XB1)Lucas Jameson said:

I fail to see the relevance. Perhaps you could elaborate?

Melee is not any less safe than hanging back.

[(XBOX)SupremeMorph]

21 minutes ago, Corvid said:

Melee is not any less safe than hanging back.

I fail to see how that's a reasonable assumption. Melee forces you to be right next to your enemy, opening you up to fire not just from them but all their allies. Staying back in cover drastically improves your survivability. Parrying has no input on either situation

[Morthal]

While none of my primary or secondary weapons come close to the levels of slaughter, that my fav melee weapons can, there are a few which delete lvl 160 Empyrean gunners within reasonable time.
I also agree with the idea that Archguns get a buff first. 

[Morthal]

9 minutes ago, (XB1)Lucas Jameson said:

I fail to see how that's a reasonable assumption. Melee forces you to be right next to your enemy, opening you up to fire not just from them but all their allies. Staying back in cover drastically improves your survivability. Parrying has no input on either situation

Hmmm, current Ai is trash at best though and cover isn't something afforded to Warframes. Level design is aimed at providing cover for enemies, which can also teleport/spawn in right behind you. With majority of enemy units using hitscan headshots and riot shield enemies that one shot you with Marelok, there's no difference being far or near an enemy unless they're venomous, parasitic or in the undetected state.

Operator and arcanes replaced the need to main Frost Prime and Ivara/Octavia in my case but that just shows how crappy the Ai is.

[Fallen77]

Ignore, stupid phone double posted

 

Edited January 29, 2020 by Fallen77

[Fallen77]

Il y a 5 heures, NoMoreFAIL a dit :

I think I had similair kill times between HM Amprex and Heavy Build Pennant (both without a riven) while farming Gian Point when fending off boarders. Sure single target kill times for melee were better but due to how Amprex chains clearing the groups took relativeley the same time.

Melee has always been much stronger than ranged. If we have to be precise it was MUCH stronger than it is now. Sure, now all melees are strong but Maiming Strike Cyath and 100% status Redeemer were probably at least 10x more powerful than the top melees right now. I remember slicing level 1500 enemies with my 500k slash slide crits and nothing can come even close now. It's just that melee feels better to use now even though it actually has higher floor and lower ceiling in terms of damage.

Man, it's just obvious that melee is way too strong compared to guns.

I'm not gonna crunch the numbers to show it to you mate, at some point it's just too obvious.

Before did not matter because nothing threw ennemies as tanky as we have now (not considering 4h endurance and such, as it's not intended gameplay). If you wanted to play only guns back then, you wouldn't see the difference between a melee one shot and a gun one shot, but now, you're just a LOT less efficient than a melee man, it's undisputable.

And before, with maiming strike and family, there was just no reason to talk about balance, as it was so out of whack. But now, with melee 3.0 and the devs saying they wanna look into damage rework, it's more viable to consider ways to balance the game.

Again, melee should be around 20-50% stronger than guns, not 2 entire tiers above guns...

[NoMoreFAIL]

14 minutes ago, Fallen77 said:

Man, it's just obvious that melee is way too strong compared to guns.

I'm not gonna crunch the numbers to show it to you mate, at some point it's just too obvious.

Before did not matter because nothing threw ennemies as tanky as we have now (not considering 4h endurance and such, as it's not intended gameplay). If you wanted to play only guns back then, you wouldn't see the difference between a melee one shot and a gun one shot, but now, you're just a LOT less efficient than a melee man, it's undisputable.

And before, with maiming strike and family, there was just no reason to talk about balance, as it was so out of whack. But now, with melee 3.0 and the devs saying they wanna look into damage rework, it's more viable to consider ways to balance the game.

Again, melee should be around 20-50% stronger than guns, not 2 entire tiers above guns...

DE: We hear you loud and clear, next hotfix reducing melee damage by 50%.

[(PSN)segulibanez65]

On 2020-01-26 at 11:39 AM, (XB1)Skiller115 said:

Acceltra and Kuva Karak disagrees with you.

To me the Acceltra slams right into a wall right around mission 2 sortie/first few Arb rounds level.  I even got exceedingly lucky by getting a riven for it before the bp, and even more lucky in getting a CD/Multi/Fire unveil.  Prior to the dispo nerf it was over 10x CD, and I still never used it even though I brought it into missions.  Even with H Mun and full Vigilante set it seemed like it was lacking at high(er) end content, to the point where I would just revert to melee when an entire magazine of rockets (at over 200% multishot) would fail to down a heavy gunner in the low 100's.  Yet 2-3 shots from a kitgun or Euphona P would put them down.  Its amazing up to level 80 or so, I'll give it that.  Also great against certain bosses, but something about it just doesn't cut it it for my play style.  Needless to say, I don't understand the Acceltra hype at all

[GPrime96]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Lucas Jameson said:

I fail to see how that's a reasonable assumption. Melee forces you to be right next to your enemy, opening you up to fire not just from them but all their allies. Staying back in cover drastically improves your survivability. Parrying has no input on either situation

In a high level Survival situation, this can make a difference. Meleeing against enemies at 2 Hours in or less is suicide unless your Frame is tanky enough to tank the damage at the Face while being further away works for a lot more Frames.

[(XBOX)SupremeMorph]

4 hours ago, Morthal said:

Hmmm, current Ai is trash at best though and cover isn't something afforded to Warframes. Level design is aimed at providing cover for enemies, which can also teleport/spawn in right behind you. With majority of enemy units using hitscan headshots and riot shield enemies that one shot you with Marelok, there's no difference being far or near an enemy unless they're venomous, parasitic or in the undetected state.

Operator and arcanes replaced the need to main Frost Prime and Ivara/Octavia in my case but that just shows how crappy the Ai is.

Oh for me, survival isn't a problem. Magus repair and the CC of zenurik gets me out of any tight spots, it's only if you're already struggling with surviving that taking cover makes sense. If you're running aegis and guardian on a frame with maxed redirection and vitality, you're probably going to be fine with just about anything

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

All of them don't need a buff.  But most of them do.  There are several guns that, no matter how much forma and how perfect the riven is, will never be viable past sortie 3 and will never be efficient past sortie 2.  There are some guns (like the Hind.) that are so irredeemably bad that nothing can make them worth using.  My amp kills faster than a Hind ever will.

The Amprex and Pyrana Prime don't need to be buffed.  But the Baza Prime came out of the gate mediocre.

"But mine is just fine."

I'm sure it is.  Almost anything works fine in a fissure or relic farm.  There's a reason you see people using mostly melee and the exact same guns in harder content.

[taiiat]

my Guns perform well. the majority of them atleast.
they perform well in Railjack too.

my Melee Weapons perform well enough too, ofcourse, they don't perform as well as they did previously (since they just do less Damage after U26, with less 'aiming' to boot).

 

i guess my ending point should be that, if anyones' reasoning is spamming Melee Heavies - they should take themselves into context that spamming Heavies is the lowest common denominator - it's really not very efficient but it has a low barrier to entry, so it's an avenue for Players to get their foot in the door and hopefully grow further from there.

56 minutes ago, (XB1)TehChubbyDugan said:

There are some guns (like the Hind.) that are so irredeemably bad that nothing can make them worth using.  My amp kills faster than a Hind ever will.

my Hind has a pretty horrible Riven (literally only 1 Stat that is useful), and it can Kill Lv100 Armored non Heavies in one or two Bursts. for a Gun that's definitely not that great, that's still performing adequately.
frankly that could have even been before the redundant Alt-Fire was added (probably was), so quite a while ago i.e. before they buffed its Stats.

 

 

On 2020-01-29 at 12:36 PM, (PS4)segulibanez65 said:

I even got exceedingly lucky by getting a riven for it before the bp, and even more lucky in getting a CD/Multi/Fire unveil.  Prior to the dispo nerf it was over 10x CD, and I still never used it even though I brought it into missions.  Even with H Mun and full Vigilante set it seemed like it was lacking at high(er) end content, to the point where I would just revert to melee when an entire magazine of rockets (at over 200% multishot) would fail to down a heavy gunner in the low 100's.

off topic but, i wish i had that Riven (the Fire is meh but i could deal with it). Acceltra is a nice pairing with my Gear, a nice Riven would let it wipe Armored LV200 Enemies like a breeze, hehe. it already performs pretty adequately vs Armored Lv100.
a niche Weapon that unfortunately doesn't fill the desires of most Players even though they have 'the goods' for it, while it does fill my desires but i don't have those same goods yet. alas.

Edited January 30, 2020 by taiiat

[HugintheCrow]

On 2020-01-29 at 11:46 AM, NoMoreFAIL said:

Melee has always been much stronger than ranged.

False. I still remember making and hearing endless jokes about how melee is utterly useless for anything but coptering. And then, around a year ago, as I came back after taking like 2 years of break and heard melee weapons were more than usable, I was like "Wait, what?".

Edit: Oh, you joined (the forums) in 2018, so, yeah, for you, melee would have "always" been be strong. Trust me on that, though, long time ago, melee was utterly useless and nobody nothered with it, except for good coptering weapons.

Edited January 30, 2020 by HugintheCrow

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

5 hours ago, taiiat said:

Hind has a pretty horrible Riven (literally only 1 Stat that is useful), and it can Kill Lv100 Armored non Heavies in one or two Bursts. 

So it can kill trash mobs like butchers and lancers?  Impressive.

[Aldain]

5 hours ago, taiiat said:

before they buffed its Stats

You mean that it was worse than the potato gun it is now?

...I honestly can't picture how that is possible.

[taiiat]

2 hours ago, (XB1)TehChubbyDugan said:

So it can kill trash mobs like butchers and lancers?  Impressive.

without weakening their Armor at all, and the point was showing that even what people say is a 'uselessly bad Weapon' is still capable vs the highest Level content that the vast majority of the Players are actually playing anyways.

on the heavies it was less than a Mag but i can't remember exactly how much.