How to lose your sanity in a Lich Hunt. This is fine? Where's the Lich Rework?

[Hawk_of_the_Reborn]

20 hours ago, Avienas said:

-snip-

That's a lot of nothing I'm seeing.


The lich is my enemy, I'm not gonna let him/her get stronger. Period. 

Letting them get stronger is wrong, that's not how you fight enemies

[Aldain]

Yay another pointless argument about "YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!" concerning the Lich system.

I love it when these happen.

/bigfatsarcasm

[Mikaer88]

17 minutes ago, Hawk_of_the_Reborn said:

I'm implying that you're ultimately wrong in how liches are.

Liches suck right now, and need to be very punishing upon failure but also very rewarding upon success(which should be reasonably more often than failure)

If you cannot defeat your lich, that's on you. I don't care if you're MR 30 with 5,000 hours and have played since beta; You fail, you lose. Liches are not some trash mob, they're literally the closest thing that any other entity can get to being on even ground with a Tenno, warframe or not, without needing to be a sentient. Kuva is like ghetto poor-man's void power. 

You want failure to be punishing which probably means that you want challenge but you refuse to guess and just farm murmurs. You are inconsistent with your statements.

Stop assuming that I'm having trouble with killing my lich when in fact that the biggest problem in this system is the RNG Grind.

What I'm saying is that stabbing your lich gives you more murmurs, which you obviously refuse to believe after multiple people already told you. It's even in the damn wiki.

Edited January 26, 2020 by Mikaer88
For clarity

[(XBOX)Deputy Facepain]

15 minutes ago, Hawk_of_the_Reborn said:

Letting them get stronger is wrong, that's not how you fight enemies

Feeling aren’t facts. You’re welcome to think/feel anything you like, but it doesn’t mean you’re correct. In this case, it doesn’t really matter. You’re welcome to kill your Lich however you like. It doesn’t however; make anybody with a different idea/process wrong. 

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

32 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Why should I let them? The system is a failure, but the entire point is that the Lich is my enemy, and I have no reason to let my enemy level up. If my Lich spawns before I've even Unveiled my first Requiem, I ain't stabbing him, because I would get a total of THREE murmurs. Far better to just let my level 1 lich turn all the enemies nearby into Thralls and stab those instead.

Once I've got two unveiled, and a failed guess is worth like ten murmurs, then it's time to start stabbing

You do understand that you progress faster if you try and fail, right? When they kill you from a failed attempt you get a larger amount of murmur progress and you also get to eliminate a requiem mod from the potential list. If you guess correctly it gives you a entire murmur in progress and you keep your previous murmur progress towards the next requiem mod. There's literally no downside if you can handle the lich increasing in rank. Since the lich will never go past rank 5 there is a limit to enemy level, so failing sooner just means more progress. Or are you really trying to make the process take longer on purpose?

[Avienas]

34 minutes ago, Hawk_of_the_Reborn said:

I'm implying that you're ultimately wrong in how liches are.

Everyone is honestly incorrect about something when they imply things, but honestly Kuva Liches are a piece of garbage system that should not of had Kuva weapons tied to them and should of been some long-term session of coming to blows with them till you decide to either grab thar hand and force them into the friendship meme of helping you out. With things as they become the Piccolo of your adventure or you show them no mercy and give them the Raditz treatment for being a straight up jerk the entire time since they appeared and pulling alot of b.s. like kidnapping your kid, beating the crap out of all your friends and so many other things that said jerk pretty much was just a one-off villian who never got a chance to re-appear except in spin off media then the main show. 

Quote

Liches suck right now, and need to be very punishing upon failure but also very rewarding upon success(which should be reasonably more often than failure)

Currently Liches are very punishing in many ways, they are the only system right now that straight up pilfers your resources and forces you into a scripted instant death sequence. Bombards and Bursas and similar enemies only pull that off because they put you in a extremely unfair method of C.C. spam or just straight up one shot you with no fan-fare effect.

Even if you manage to get all the resources back, only 2 things come out of it as the 2 choices one can pick. Get a `trading fodder`, because converted liches have absolutely less impact then even a great number of specters which warframe ones can cast abilities, we have ancient specters who apply thar D.R. Aura and we even have that one corrupted specter & drone that gives shields. Least even Clem can stick around the whole time till he dies and give you some REAL covering fire with his freaking twin grakata. 

With the other being pretty much the major reason people even care for the system, the freaking kuva weapons where only a few of them are generally viable and the others are just more variants to trash weapons with likely stats that are decent for NORMAL weapons.

We do not get any bonus resources for all the hassle the kuva liches were done. We do not get a riven mod, unless we farmed kuva relics for so long we kept getting trash pulls and kept picking riven slivers to get one every week, we do not even get a sizable amount of kuva. The stuff the freakin liches are stuffed full of, We only get maybe a few drops that fell out of him while doing stab attempts at it levels up to max.

So overall, we have very unique things the kuva lich can do yet we do not get much of a UNIQUE thing out of taking down the kuva lich, just a weapon that may or may not be good, especially when you start taking into account its bonus stat value, which more then likely result in people still not caring about the weapon, even if it has a 50~60% roll on its elemental bonus, if the weapon itself is still garbage. Same Crap as Riven mods honestly, you could have a riven mod that gives 5x damage to a sheev, but if the base stats are still extremely bad on the weapon, it would have to have the most ridiculous and unfair level of buffs that said riven mod must of been a hacked version, to justify using the weapon over things that are not only statistically better but also mechanically better too.

Quote

If you cannot defeat your lich, that's on you. I don't care if you're MR 30 with 5,000 hours and have played since beta; You fail, you lose. Liches are not some trash mob, they're literally the closest thing that any other entity can get to being on even ground with a Tenno, warframe or not, without needing to be a sentient. Kuva is like ghetto poor-man's void power. 

Yeah thats the thing, unless you run a tank-ie type of frame, anyone is going to have an annoying time with Kuva liches at level 3 and above, with 1 and 2 can still do a nasty chonk on you, which any lich that can apply viral or radiation will be a absurdly bad time for them unless they purposely use cheese methods like stealth frames to just bully the kuva lich instead of just using a `normal` frame to face them head on. Which usually is what people normally do when running thar favorite frame and just doing regular content, not specialized farming ontent setups like disruption, survival and fissures, but just something they enjoy period.

Wolf of Saturn Six and Stalker during his early years when we did not have the POWER CREEP of op as fk stuff these days, would like to have a word with you. `Pop-up boss type` foes that were basically setup to easily YEET you if you are not constantly trying to stay the fk away from them as they come at you, unless you purposely were trying to intentionally bait him by running your tankie-boi frame to farm them, such as how coveted the War and Broken War weapons early on since the Later was amongst one of the op as fk Single handed swords in the early days if you had to use yours to make a actually War sword, which many could agree was a BEAST of a weapon back in those days. Now people just took the power creep approach and run stuff like Gram prime and other rather easy to obtain weapons, especially after the melee buff.

Plus its not a matter of them being as good as Warframes, its the fact they purposely had to be immune to status effects and have a E-health pool likely in the millions to billions that we cannot use our normal methods to chip out how ridiculous enemy armor can get where thar E-health rises by 20% to 35% its value every 10 levels or so and just exponentially keeps rising due to a poorly designed scaling system, Especially when the base health and Armor is already absurdly high for the enemies which means they scale even more harder.

If you quite literally gave Eximus units the ability to be immune to status effects, you could likely see the same kind of B.S. that Kuva Liches currently pull in terms of survivability, but they also have the factor that MANY of them an spawn at once and they have auras to boot, even if you factor in the fact that Eximus units dont use warframe abilities, but frost ones get to have a mobile Frost bubble, PLUS have a stackable slow aura, Fire ones can spam Sargas Ruk`s FK you AoE Knockback, Toxin ones will constantly tick your hp, energy ones drain your energy at a sizable pace even when they arent stacking and Funfact since most do not know about it, BLITZ Eximus units can AoE knockdown peope AND pretty much every Eximus unit gets a 50% resistance to all damage types that stacks additive-ly.

Anyway, i could ramble on about all the other Eximus units but those pretty much are the closest `regular` enemy we have that can sheet on us, but its mostly because we can actually C.C. them and also remove their armor that they are usually not a threat, though they clearly have many measures including Fire Eximus also throws up a aura that NEGATES fire damage that we throw out. Short story, Kuva liches are a biotch because they auto ignore most abilities and have ridiculous stats to boot. They are literally the `modern` Stalker at this point, except Stalker can show up EVERYWHERE on the solar map missions and Liches can`t because they would be doing the O.G. stalker experience when he first started showing up.

 

 

 

Edited January 27, 2020 by Avienas

[Hawk_of_the_Reborn]

9 minutes ago, (XB1)Deputy Facepain said:

Feeling aren’t facts. You’re welcome to think/feel anything you like, but it doesn’t mean you’re correct. In this case, it doesn’t really matter. You’re welcome to kill your Lich however you like. It doesn’t however; make anybody with a different idea/process wrong. 

I'm not talking about feelings, I'm talking about liches.

So, you can keep the fun facts in the off topic threads

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

33 minutes ago, Hawk_of_the_Reborn said:

Finally, somebody who knows how it works

I don't think you even know how it works. It's like a bunch of misinformed players are banding together and trying to survive an RNG death sequence by not interacting with it at all. When you fail an attempt the lich increases in rank, which causes them to spread to additional planets (benefit) and the lich nodes contain higher level enemies (negative?). So as long as you can handle the higher level enemies there is no down side.

Are the higher level enemies really a problem? Maybe I'm just out of touch with the struggles of a newer player.

[Hawk_of_the_Reborn]

Just now, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

I don't think you even know how it works. It's like a bunch of misinformed players are banding together and trying to survive an RNG death sequence by not interacting with it at all. When you fail an attempt the lich increases in rank, which causes them to spread to additional planets (benefit) and the lich nodes contain higher level enemies (negative?). So as long as you can handle the higher level enemies there is no down side.

Are the higher level enemies really a problem? Maybe I'm just out of touch with the struggles of a newer player.

It's an enemy. 

You don't let enemies kill you. Maybe hurt you a lot if you have Rage/Hunter Adrenaline, but not kill you.


I'm pretty sure I'm more aware of how they're supposed to work than some people I've seen

[TARINunit9]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

You do understand that you progress faster if you try and fail, right? 

People keep telling me this (mostly so they'll get 200 Kuva) yet the difference is so utterly miniscule that no, it really isn't much faster at all.

As I hinted in my last post, a failed Requiem order is worth 3/5/8 or 9 murmurs, depending on how many you already have unveiled. And five murmurs is nothing, I can get five murmurs instantly by joining a Lich Territory Exterminate mission in progress.

So no, I'm not trading a weekend enemy for a stronger one in exchange for progress. I'm making my enemy stronger for no benefit at all. I have no freaking reason to let my Lich become any stronger

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

2 minutes ago, Hawk_of_the_Reborn said:

It's an enemy. 

You don't let enemies kill you. Maybe hurt you a lot if you have Rage/Hunter Adrenaline, but not kill you.


I'm pretty sure I'm more aware of how they're supposed to work than some people I've seen

 

Just now, TARINunit9 said:

People keep telling me this (mostly so they'll get 200 Kuva) yet the difference is so utterly miniscule that no, it really isn't much faster at all.

As I hinted in my last post, a failed Requiem order is worth 3/5/8 or 9 murmurs, depending on how many you already have unveiled. And five murmurs is nothing, I can get five murmurs instantly by joining a Lich Territory Exterminate mission in progress.

So no, I'm not trading a weekend enemy for a stronger one in exchange for progress. I'm making my enemy stronger for no benefit at all. I have no freaking reason to let my Lich become any stronger

Alright, I don't have anything logical to say to either of you since you are on a whole different level when it comes to immersion. Let's hope DE improves the lich system sooner for both of your sakes. Good luck.

[844448]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

Wait, what? You get far more murmur progress when you fail an attempt than from farming alone. Is there a reason why you don't want your liche to level up?

Sortie level enemies with increased damage output

[TARINunit9]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

 

Alright, I don't have anything logical to say to either of you since you are on a whole different level when it comes to immersion. Let's hope DE improves the lich system sooner for both of your sakes. Good luck.

Agreed. The real problem is that the system is just bad

[(XBOX)Deputy Facepain]

5 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

the difference is so utterly miniscule that no, it really isn't much faster at all.

Its only minuscule if you don’t guess it correctly. Huge amounts of time can be saved by getting lucky. And that’s all it is, luck. But hey, I’d rather get lucky, than just suffer through every time. It really feels great when you do. 

[Hawk_of_the_Reborn]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

 

Alright, I don't have anything logical to say to either of you since you are on a whole different level when it comes to immersion. Let's hope DE improves the lich system sooner for both of your sakes. Good luck.

For all of our sakes. 

1 minute ago, 844448 said:

Sortie level enemies with increased damage output

And by level 5, I am most of the time not bothered to arse with lvl 100-120 enemies when all I want is just to do a quickie mission to spawn the ez lvl 1 lich and be done with it.

Level 5 liches are not hard

I just don't feel like wacking on a bullet sponge is all, that and I just want them gone without having to arse with their BS abilities sometimes (toxin/radiation liches are a massive pain in the derriere sometimes. I have enough of that in the sorties, thank you so much)

[844448]

3 minutes ago, Hawk_of_the_Reborn said:

Level 5 liches are not hard

For you, while others are struggling on sedna level enemies so hard or not is personal view

4 minutes ago, Hawk_of_the_Reborn said:

I just don't feel like wacking on a bullet sponge is all, that and I just want them gone without having to arse with their BS abilities sometimes (toxin/radiation liches are a massive pain in the derriere sometimes. I have enough of that in the sorties, thank you so much)

They wouldn't be a bullet sponge since you say level 5 liches are not hard. If you say bullet sponge, then they're still having some hard on your side

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

It's funny how the system doesn't make sense within itself really, that's what surprised me the most about its release. Like failing an encounter punishes you but success is random unless you get a hint that just happens to be correct for your first try but you'll often have your lich appear when you have nothing to go off of. Logically, you should avoid the fight, right? Except they didn't include a system to fend it off or escape it outside of fleeing so you can't tell what the right thing to do is other than punishing yourself when you know you're likely going to fail to not fault of your own.

 

In any event, this is kind of what woke me up to the game a bit and made me stop playing as often as I have up until this point, with railjack making me take  break outside of signing in and out for the login bonus. I wouldn't have been so bitter about if they took the randomness out of weapons and didn't include the worthless bandaid of being able to trade your lich instead of weapons. All I wanted was a Kuva Kohm but after 3 weapon dupes I just stopped with the Lich farming, couldn't take it anymore.

[Hawk_of_the_Reborn]

Just now, 844448 said:

For you, while others are struggling on sedna level enemies so hard or not is personal view

Exactly, so using the "I dont understand why people dont wanna take on lvl 5 liches" excuse is trash. Just because I can do it, doesn't make it okay for everybody else.

Just now, 844448 said:

They wouldn't be a bullet sponge since you say level 5 liches are not hard. If you say bullet sponge, then they're still having some hard on your side

Bullet sponge does not equal difficulty.

Facing the OG stalker(the real one from days of yore back before Shadow Stalker was even a concept) was hard. Facing the G3 when they were new, before their nerf, was hard.


Facing the lich is the exact same as fighting a Nox Eximus or a Gokstad Officer. They're easy to deal with, but their spongey-ness is the only thing that makes them linger to irritate you like a very bad case of poison sumac/oak/ivy

[(PSN)SolarPhantom82]

6 hours ago, HamletEagle said:

 

Sometimes... I really hate this game...  

This is what DE calls hard content.  Their not lieing  . You have lose to him 6 times.  And if your "luck" I ment "skill " keeps going you could lose another 15 time. . 

So get good. ..  this is end game. .. lololol

Edited January 27, 2020 by (PS4)SolarPhantom82

[Miser_able]

5 hours ago, DreisterDino said:

Probably more healthy to just ignore this system and move on (Edit: i had more than enough after 3 Liches)

I think in the 2nd last Devstream of 2019 they said they wont make any changes to Liches anymore.

In the survey from steve 40% of the players voted Liches the worst Update of 2019, so lets see if they care about that feedback or stay stubborn and keep the system untouched ignoring all the great ideas players posted to make this an actually fun and engaging system.

 they've announced changes coming to the lich system. 

[JackHargreav]

Never understood why ppl doing it this way.

I get that you have chance to guess the right combo but if you don't, you just end up with a powerfull lich that's a pain to kill.

I rather do the murmur farm and only at the third murmur I kill myself to speed up the process.

[Chicken-Biryani]

9 hours ago, HamletEagle said:

 

Sometimes... I really hate this game...  

At least you don't get 20ish % weapons all the darn time. 

[seprent]

7 hours ago, Hawk_of_the_Reborn said:

Are you implying that I'm gonna kill you in about 20 year's time?

Also the Jedi were wrong the whole time. #Fact

the jedi were anti life buddhists change my mind 

[seprent]

2 hours ago, JackHargreav said:

Never understood why ppl doing it this way.

I get that you have chance to guess the right combo but if you don't, you just end up with a powerfull lich that's a pain to kill.

I rather do the murmur farm and only at the third murmur I kill myself to speed up the process.

well attempting gives x10 the amount of murmurs and scott or steve i cant recall who said they were going to do away with the wrong guess of death.

Besides i just cheese my lich's with ivara + Silent gun when i can bother to do them get them done in hmm i wanna say in a time frame a 1-2 hours even if you took the effort to only farm up murmurs you still have to guess the order so you may end up with a level 5 lich with just extra steps on your end for getting to that point.

Also i just prefer guessing its honestly more entertaining for me if my lich took the effort to show up and try to fight me i'm going to return it with the effort of stabbing them and if they kill eeh i was cheesing them with stealth so no skin off my nose 

[Hawk_of_the_Reborn]

5 minutes ago, seprent said:

well attempting gives x10 the amount of murmurs and scott or steve i cant recall who said they were going to do away with the wrong guess of death.

Besides i just cheese my lich's with ivara + Silent gun when i can bother to do them get them done in hmm i wanna say in a time frame a 1-2 hours even if you took the effort to only farm up murmurs you still have to guess the order so you may end up with a level 5 lich with just extra steps on your end for getting to that point.

Also i just prefer guessing its honestly more entertaining for me if my lich took the effort to show up and try to fight me i'm going to return it with the effort of stabbing them and if they kill eeh i was cheesing them with stealth so no skin off my nose 

Worst case scenario if you do it properly, your lich will die at level 4 at the very highest, since you have your attempts before the 4th one as the final/correct one. Best case scenario, obviously first try.

Or if you brute force it, you have to deal with a level 5 lich and possibly blow through all your revives(and potential mission failures if you blow through all revives) when having to deal with level 110+ Nox Eximuses and other B.S. enemy units while just trying to focus on the lich at the same time.