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Power_Is_Everything

Arbitrations need to change

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9 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

If you need Endo at the point where you start doing Arbis your WF-Fu is weak.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. We asked for endgame, DE heard endogame and in the end they are not the same thing.

Unless you've been playing for years, I'd say this is incorrect.

The amount of Endo you need to max all your relevant staple and Prime mods ( not to mention the non-essencial stuff ) is staggering.

Reaching arbies stage isn't that hard to do, a few weeks, couple months tops depending on how active you are.

Personally, I'm MR27 and arbies have been available to me long time ago, and if I wanted to max all my Primed mods, I would still need to go get a few hundreds of thousands of Endo.

Thankfully I don't really "need" to do that, and I don't bother with farming Endo specifically to max stuff that isn't really going to make that much of a difference.

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1 minute ago, Vit0Corleone said:

Unless you've been playing for years, I'd say this is incorrect.

The amount of Endo you need to max all your relevant staple and Prime mods ( not to mention the non-essencial stuff ) is staggering.

Reaching arbies stage isn't that hard to do, a few weeks, couple months tops depending on how active you are.

Personally, I'm MR27 and arbies have been available to me long time ago, and if I wanted to max all my Primed mods, I would still need to go get a few hundreds of thousands of Endo.

Thankfully I don't really "need" to do that, and I don't bother with farming Endo specifically to max stuff that isn't really going to make that much of a difference.

And arbis were intended to be something designed for those that had been around for years or atleast a good while, so endo should have never been there in the first place. The bad part is that people complained about there not being enough endo and more was added in one of the changes after release aswell.

They should have either endo or ayatans as rewards, not both and not in the absurd amounts they do now. It should be a bonus for those that still have primed mods to level, and not be a key piece of content for effective endo grinding. Because when you make it the optimal endo farm place you'll get alot of undergeared people in there, because DE indicates that it is the go to place if you need endo for your less than max leveled so-so mods and everything else.

DE really missed the mark with rewards in arbis.

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17 minutes ago, (XB1)Demon Intellect said:

Is this a joke topic? I'm kinda serious. I have like 60+ sculptures and am sitting on 60 or 70k unused endo. 

They have a vid showing off 1k essence and having "nothing worth buying" but still won't buy the overpriced although available sculptures. Hovers over it and says I won't buy this. I... I don't think they know it's Endo.

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10 hours ago, Power_Is_Everything said:

-snip-

With respect, I disagree. We have enough endo sources as is, we don't need more coming from a mode that is meant to be the be-all end-all challenge (as well as possibly eso). If I'm going to play arbitrations, I want a decent reward out of it, not more endo for the ever-expanding pile.

Then again, I'm also not fussed on how long it takes me to get my primed mods maxed. If it happens in a day or a year, I'll be fine with either. But if I'm already struggling to motivate myself to slog through arbitrations for the current rewards, there is no way I'm doing it for something I could get somewhere else

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3 hours ago, (XB1)Demon Intellect said:

Is this a joke topic? I'm kinda serious. I have like 60+ sculptures and am sitting on 60 or 70k unused endo. 

Well, how long did it take to get the endo and sculptures and do you even use them? You are not saying much, I can say I havee 1000 Vitus Essence but not say it took 9 months and not spending a single one.

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3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

And arbis were intended to be something designed for those that had been around for years or atleast a good while, so endo should have never been there in the first place. The bad part is that people complained about there not being enough endo and more was added in one of the changes after release aswell.

They should have either endo or ayatans as rewards, not both and not in the absurd amounts they do now. It should be a bonus for those that still have primed mods to level, and not be a key piece of content for effective endo grinding. Because when you make it the optimal endo farm place you'll get alot of undergeared people in there, because DE indicates that it is the go to place if you need endo for your less than max leveled so-so mods and everything else.

DE really missed the mark with rewards in arbis.

You actually have my respect for teaching me something and staying on topic.

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3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

If you need Endo at the point where you start doing Arbis your WF-Fu is weak.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. We asked for endgame, DE heard endogame and in the end they are not the same thing.

I have no idea what you are talking about, all I heard was "Not Arbitration", then "random letters", then "something else, not arbitration for a game that is not suppossed to end". Re-phrase and try again.

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4 hours ago, Vit0Corleone said:

I think this sort of falls into a larger topic that goes beyond arbitrations, which is: should "one time" rewards even be on drop tables?

IMHO it could be more beneficial to the game if DE moved more towards "token" style of acquiring rewards, as they have been doing with several systems in the recent times ( Vitus Essence is a good example, so are the recent Anomaly Shards ).

Drop tables should focus more on resources of which most people always need to farm for ( like Endo, Kuva, Relics, etc ), and not point in time items that we usually only need one or just a few and then we're done with it.

Those one time reward items make a lot more sense to be on a store. That allows us to pick them as we need, as well as it allows DE to keep populating the stores with new stuff without polluting the drop tables.

I could be wrong, but I think DE is trying to move ( albeit slowly ) in this direction.

Edit:

Tokens/stores do have a problem. They can easily lead to hoarding, which means that when some new reward is added, players don't have to do anything and can just go buy it.. I think one possible solution to this would be to have tokens behave similar to Argon Crystals. If you don't use them, they expire after a while. Or limit how many tokens we can hold at the same time. Either way, there needs to be some sort of mechanism to avoid hoarding ..

So I read what you said, and it actually has something to do with the topic and potential taught me something new. My response is, why can they not put relics in these stores for arbitration or even warframe parts? Better yet, why not Endo?

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7 minutes ago, Power_Is_Everything said:

So I read what you said, and it actually has something to do with the topic and potential taught me something new. My response is, why can they not put relics in these stores for arbitration or even warframe parts? Better yet, why not Endo?

Making one gamemode the source for everything isn't a great idea if you want people to play the rest of the game.

I do agree that the arcanes should be put in the shop, but replacing them with endo in the drop pools probabaly isn't a great way to keep people playing them. Perhaps replacing the arcane spots in the droppool with 5x Universal Medallions?

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21 minutes ago, Power_Is_Everything said:

I have no idea what you are talking about, all I heard was "Not Arbitration", then "random letters", then "something else, not arbitration for a game that is not suppossed to end". Re-phrase and try again.

We the players wanted endgame content, DE said arbitrations were going to be endgame, sadly arbitrations turned out to be another midgame mode where the only thing connected to end were the first 3 letters in endo.

The endo rewards could simply have been introduced elsewhere, in content that currently have no worthwhile rewards. Yet they slapped it into the mode where most of the players dont actually really need it.

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Sorry this may sound selfish on my part, but I have more endo than I know what to do with. So no, I have to politely disagree.

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6 minutes ago, Currilicious said:

Sorry this may sound selfish on my part, but I have more endo than I know what to do with. So no, I have to politely disagree.

So if you would replace Endo on the drop tables for something that isn't a one off and will keep you coming back for more over and over and over.. what would you replace it with?

Also, going from "you" to "them the players" what do you think in terms of resources like that that would keep the majority of players playing ( knowing that most are casual players )?

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5 minutes ago, Vit0Corleone said:

So if you would replace Endo on the drop tables for something that isn't a one off and will keep you coming back for more over and over and over.. what would you replace it with?

Also, going from "you" to "them the players" what do you think in terms of resources like that that would keep the majority of players playing ( knowing that most are casual players )?

I wouldn't. Others may need them even if I don't. However, I do not need more of it. Hence, I hope things wouldn't be replaced with Endo.

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I have 300K endo and like 100 statues, with very little to use them on. Why would I want more endo? And I am not remotely most geared. I am MR16. People who have more than 1K hours in the game gain little benefit from endo.

I do agree that the arbitration rewards are lacking. Endo loses value. The arcanes are not useful. I got all the mods (like a boat load of them). More Vitus Esscence? So I can buy more Kuva? I already have 250K Kuva with, again, limited use for it, since I rolled all the rivens I have to the stats I want.

Most of my arbitration runs now are for semi not brain dead content and 50K credits. Everything else that I get is mostly irrelevant. 

What could be beneficial is more arcanes and more fashion. More endo or kuva is meh.

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Arbitration used to be fun by itself even after maxing our and getting everything. Any game mode should be either grindy/huge reward or fun. 

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6 hours ago, Vit0Corleone said:

Unless you've been playing for years, I'd say this is incorrect.

The amount of Endo you need to max all your relevant staple and Prime mods ( not to mention the non-essencial stuff ) is staggering.

Reaching arbies stage isn't that hard to do, a few weeks, couple months tops depending on how active you are.

Personally, I'm MR27 and arbies have been available to me long time ago, and if I wanted to max all my Primed mods, I would still need to go get a few hundreds of thousands of Endo.

Thankfully I don't really "need" to do that, and I don't bother with farming Endo specifically to max stuff that isn't really going to make that much of a difference.

How? Do not get me wrong, there are mods that I still would consider to max out, but as I currently stand:

I have all corrupted mods maxed.

Umbra mods maxed. Actually, I think I literally have every singe frame mod maxed.

All melee mods maxed (except the prime impact one, which I have no use for).

Almost all mods for primaries and secondaries maxed, except shotgun mods. I do not use shotgun.

And as of today, I have a legendary core, 300K endo and at least 200K endo if I turn statues to endo. I am only MR16 with about ~1.05K hours. And I barely run arbitration any more. If I really want to, I can stack probably run 100K+ endo in a week, just playing 1-2 hours a day. 

And if it was not for credits, I would have probably maxed every single mod I have (which I do not remotely need). I will probably have millions of endo by the time I have like 2K hours in (if I ever get there). I think the only use for endo is buy mods from Baro + farm corrupted mods, max them, then sell them on the market for platinum. It is just a credit wall to do that. I have little interest in running Index. 

14 minutes ago, George_PPS said:

Arbitration used to be fun by itself even after maxing our and getting everything. Any game mode should be either grindy/huge reward or fun. 

Honestly, only reason I run arbitration and Kuva flood, is that they are the only content if I drop the controller for 10-15 seconds, I could theoretically die. With experience, arbitrations need ~45 minutes to become somewhat challenging. But I do not want to spend that much time in, for things to get interesting. 

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A simple Economy lesson -> More ENDO = MORE players selling Primed Mods. The price will drop and you will get mad about other things, creating other useless topics.

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2 hours ago, Power_Is_Everything said:

Well, how long did it take to get the endo and sculptures and do you even use them? You are not saying much, I can say I havee 1000 Vitus Essence but not say it took 9 months and not spending a single one.

I mean I just started doing arbitrations for real about a week ago. I never really use statues because I dont have anything to use them on.

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40 minutes ago, (PS4)thegarada said:

How? Do not get me wrong, there are mods that I still would consider to max out, but as I currently stand:

I have all corrupted mods maxed.

Umbra mods maxed. Actually, I think I literally have every singe frame mod maxed.

All melee mods maxed (except the prime impact one, which I have no use for).

Almost all mods for primaries and secondaries maxed, except shotgun mods. I do not use shotgun.

And as of today, I have a legendary core, 300K endo and at least 200K endo if I turn statues to endo. I am only MR16 with about ~1.05K hours. And I barely run arbitration any more. If I really want to, I can stack probably run 100K+ endo in a week, just playing 1-2 hours a day. 

And if it was not for credits, I would have probably maxed every single mod I have (which I do not remotely need). I will probably have millions of endo by the time I have like 2K hours in (if I ever get there). I think the only use for endo is buy mods from Baro + farm corrupted mods, max them, then sell them on the market for platinum. It is just a credit wall to do that. I have little interest in running Index. 

I may have exaggerated a bit, would have to double check that.

Probably just melting all duplicate mods and selling all statues would net quite a bit. Certainly not enough to max everything thou.

I have 1.5k hours, and I don't really go specifically farm Endo. Haven't done that in quite a while, so what I get is just from passively playing.

In any case, my own situation is irrelevant for the discussion. What matters is the bulk of the player base.

What I was saying is that Endo is probably a wanted resource for the majority of players ( that we know are mostly casuals ), and that you can unlock arbitrations early enough for them to become a very good Endo source for those players.

Edit: I just double checked. After selling mods and statues, I have ~90k Endo. Would need 543k to max all the big mods I have ( including primed etc. ).

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Just put all those Mods and Arcanes into the Arbitration vendor and get them the hell out of our rotation, I'm sick of getting useless Arcanes I already have, why are they in a rotation anyway?

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5 hours ago, Vit0Corleone said:

So if you would replace Endo on the drop tables for something that isn't a one off and will keep you coming back for more over and over and over.. what would you replace it with?

Kuva, Archgun Riven Slivers, Sentinel Riven Slivers, Vitus Essence and they could possibly give us the option to chase the arcanes that are currently locked behind eidolons, properly placed at different tiers.

Move current arbi arcanes to the vendor, implement different drop tables depending on the mission type, have low tier and high tier raid/eidolon arcanes tied to the specific mission types within arbitrations. Want grace, go do disruption, want energize, go do defection, want guardian go do defense etc. Then the arbi arcanes that got moved to the vendor would be obtained through Vitus that is now a common rotational drop.

Ta-da! Endgame mode!

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On 2020-01-27 at 4:53 AM, Power_Is_Everything said:

You need to award "ENDO" or "AYATAN TREASURE"s more often in arbitrations and put those "ARCANE"s in the shop, I literally do care about anything else but "ENDO" because it gets me through the game. If you do not do that, then make arbitrations what they used to be, double the work but bigger rewards and you were garunteed to get "ENDO" unless one in a hundred chance of getting a mod. All of you here can literally fight me in the dojo, I don't care about anything but "ENDO" and "VITUS ESSENCE" from arbitrations. If you have a problem with it, speak up.

Edit 2: Make arbitration drones drop more Vitus Essence, doubling the drop rate would be half way to "fair".

You do know that Arbitrations was originally supposed to be "Challening for the vets", right?

Not this Endo Farm...

But I think we all know that that will never happen...

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