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Is the average Warframe player getting worse?


(PSN)SrebX
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7 hours ago, kapn655321 said:

Do you mean in Railjack, or not in railjack?

Both, although less so in Railjack.

7 hours ago, kapn655321 said:

So if you're in star chart thinking people aren't playing competitively enough, it's because the players there are either still struggling under new gear, (frames, formas, not enough mods, etc..) or they're just not super dedicated to using every advantage.

No, not necessarily. There's a big difference between a new player who is using an under-powered, unmodded frame or weapons and someone who is at mid-level MR with good gear and is actively mucking around. Heck even I don't have super modded gear nor am I always using my best. Nor would I consider myself an "elite" player. I can hold my own but there are far better players out there than me.

7 hours ago, kapn655321 said:

Also... Both you and OP are from mid 2019 or so. Maybe you're the group that last year thought weren't good players.. and they were the group the previous players thought that of.. Not that they're right, just that people tend to turn on, "new players," when they don't feel they get enough clout, satisfaction, and recognition from their challenge. We never have been able to or welcome to tell other players what to do, outside of Invite only/clans that agree to that. That's never changed. What I can tell you that's changed over the years, is people thinking they're entitled to that opinion.

True I started playing Warframe in mid 2019 and I was at one time a newbie. I am thankful for the clan that took me in and the players that helped me out when I started. I in turn try to help out new players when I can.

7 hours ago, kapn655321 said:

I never ONCE caught flak for going to t4 void key missions with a flux rifle years back. No one Ever expressed that players were incompetent for not playing every advantage to meta. We used to have fun here, damn it! Players were helpful and welcoming, not elitist and snobbish about how others perform. That was unheard of. Every new player is scum to someone.. and that someone juuuuust might be a, "clueless idiot," as OP puts it, when they think that. You guys are part of a group of players that doesn't even defend defense points, or stay in affinity range. XD ...I can't even.

I'm not even sure that I should respond to this. This is not about being elitist or snobbish - it was just a general observation that the quality of some players efforts seems to have lessened of late. And your comments on my playing style are completely unfounded, untrue and quick frankly unnecessary.
I mentioned in my first post that I had spent three hours the other day playing with a single squad. One of those players was a low leveled player who was trying to farm for Chroma Prime parts. The whole team chipped in with Radiant relics, even gifting him some additional relics until we got the required parts. Then we went on to do other missions as a team because we were all having fun. For me that is what playing Warframe is all about.

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21 minutes ago, (PS4)crashteddy03 said:

This is not about being elitist or snobbish

Assuming you're the worthy judge of who's beneath you, is elitist and snobbish.

I could try to explain that, all the good stuff is behind RNG, there's hundreds of possible options that they might not be ready for, they might not be looking at this game as the rat race you do by comparison.. but I think it would waste both of our time. Agreed?

21 minutes ago, (PS4)crashteddy03 said:

your comments on my playing style are completely unfounded, untrue and quick frankly unnecessary

That's exactly the sentiment I have towards your comments in regards to these players. It's unfair of me to make judgements of your character and capability? Overgeneralize and throw you under the bus? I'd say you know how they feel then. That's why it sucks. That's why it a gross, meaningless, uppity jerk thing to do. We agree there?

Good luck with the game and the thread. It's a mistake to throw away a player for anyone's perspective of how it's supposed to be done.. but I hope that lesson teaches itself over time. Though sometimes.. just sometimes.. there are inconsolable differences that make it impossible to have fun together. If this here is one of those case, so be it. If not, agree to disagree.

This is every bit as relevant to me as it is to you guys: Respect your fellow Tenno.

Edited by kapn655321
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11 hours ago, da_blok_is_hot said:

After the Relic System is when this all started to happen. DE made the game easier to new players. Players like me did 4+ hr survivals back in the day. 40 Waves in interception etc. Relic system changed the way players approached the game. Most people just play for the Mastery Fodder instead of actually playing to get "good" at the game. I feel you 100%.

You may try to fool others, but I know what old long void runs consisted of - enemies being locked under a permanent CC spam and players effortlessly killing them while watching twitch or youtube on the side to alleviate the boredom.

To the OP, as someone who played this game since a long time ago, I can't say that players got worse, it was always about the same. Also, even if it were the case, this would have nothing to do with veterans leaving - I know actual veterans who can't play arbitrations because they don't have all nodes unlocked, and since they were unlocking start chart before junctions, they have to go through extra loops to get them all, and they are too lazy for that. Also, "new" players simply can't play arbitrations, since it takes a bit of time to reach them.

And man, everytime you do anything in this game in a pub, you should be 100% prepared to carry the mission solo, otherwise you can be in for a fun ride.

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13 hours ago, (PS4)SrebX said:

I'd love your opinions on the whole topic, Thanks in advance!

I don't know if veterans are quitting or not, I can say from my own experience that the game gets incredibly boring and starts to feel like a chore at some point in your warframe evolution and it's perfectly natural to take long breaks (in some cases these become indefinite breaks too). So, enjoy your own game while it lasts. 🙂

Best Wishes 🙂

 

 

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19 hours ago, (PS4)SrebX said:

snip

Oh man i feel you, couldnt agree more, also this forum is full of them, as you can clearly see from some responses. 

Only tip i can give you, next time you enter such sheetshow, just check their mastery rank and if its under 25 or so, just dont bother and leave. And join some "serious" clan that have more ppl into endurance runs. Also on PC its common to have mr6 doing KUVA FLOODS. Im like dude i think you missclicked when choosing mission. I usually ress them few times and then just ignore 😎

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20 hours ago, (PS4)SrebX said:

It really feels more and more like veterans are quitting the game and all that's left are clueless idiots, who make me want to quit the game as well because they make everything so damn difficult.

No, I don't think that players are getting worse. I do think that what you are describing is becoming with random teams in (small) parts of the game. Arbitration is a good example. Another is some of the boss fights, for instance Trid hunt bounties have had this problem since the beginning. And in sorties as well.

It is a combination of two things:

  1. no real and/or functioning check/demand/gate from the game on what is needed (this has stayed basically the same)
  2. part of the player pool either selfishly expecting to be carried or thinking that leeching these kinds of missions is ok (the amount of such players have steadily been increasing)

I like to help less experienced players (we do it a lot in the clan) and hate selfish idiots. As a result I only do public infested survival Arbitrations, since if needed I can go alone long enough, if I get nice squad members trying but needing help I can help them and if I get selfish leeching idiots I can abort. Either immediately or later. All other arbitrations (and especially excavations) I only do with friends or pre-defined squads via the recruit chat. The same applies to just about all these kinds of mission, I will gladly carry needing or asking for help, and just as gladly not help leechers (ever).

The secondary problems generated by this situation are all the host changes occuring when selecting squads (with higher MR player leaving a squad if the setup is "too low"), which is quite frustrating and occasionally bordering on the absurd (10-15 minutes of host changes in Trid hunts). The other is that players really needing and benefitting from help will not get it, as the toxicity of leeching + general unpreparedness is killing off "old skool Tenno play" (where you generally help other players). You could solve the first one by adding some sort of "hard" or "elite" version of the mission, with a demanding enough "gating mechanism". But that would just increase the second problem, since it would isolate new players even more from the top tier. And maybe you don't remember it anymore, but once upon a time it was like being visited by a god when a high MR not only joined your mission (and didn't kill steal 95% of the kills), but was helpful and gave good advice while taking you longer than you ever had gone before. Sometimes these demigods even helped you get missing relics, farming credits or brought you along further on the starchart. If there is a honourable way to play Warframe it is surely this, humbly helping those that are trying and struggling to get further along in the game. It was one of the reasons I loved Warframe from the start, and as much as I don't like the leechers and the entitled loosers I would really hate to see this aspect disappear.

Edited by Graavarg
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10 hours ago, (PS4)GEN-Son_17 said:

Youtubers sold them a lie. It takes years of gameplay for the average f2p player to be able to really master this game and collect the rare mods that create the builds Youtubers use. The messaging is wrong and we're seeing the results of that.

An interesting assessment. 

I'd posit that most of the player base has always been bad, will continue to be bad, and the bad is just widely distributed because the player base is still growing. In other words, just more bad by volume. 

I won't disagree about the putting the time in to get necessary mods. A deep mod base is necessary to play the game well at the higher difficulties. You also need the experience playing to realize just what all those corrupted, nightmare, set, and primed mods can do for you. 

7 hours ago, JackHargreav said:

Don't think veterans are any different than the rest. Those are just ppl who played the game for a long time. That's it.

They aren't. People come and go in the game. It's the nature of this sort of game. Playing a lot doesn't make you good. Presumably, you'd learn and improve over time, but this isn't always the case.

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21 hours ago, (PS4)SrebX said:

With the whole UI and stats discussion lately I feel like I have to say something that's been on my mind for a while now-

More and more each and every day, it feels like the game is getting filled with plain awful players and clueless idiots.
It's one thing that always, since I've started playing the game about 8 months ago, I've been having a hard time finding players for longer endurance runs and more challenging runs. It's not for everyone, and however annoying that it, it's understandable.

But I don't know guys. Today I've had to carry 3 ppl who died after 1 rotation of excavators in Excavation Arbitration. All 3 died, after 1 freakin' rotation, and after I've revived all of them guess what happened? They died again and quit.
I love playing Frost and Wisp, which are 2 very defensive/utility based frames, and it's very often that I get 50-60% of the dmg done in a DEFENSE mission of 4 people, with both a Mesa and a Saryn- DPS frames.

I know the stats don't mean that much and the whole dmg done thing shouldn't be that much of a concern, but seriously? DEFENSE Mission which is all about killing? Outdamaging MESA and SARYN, the 2 best DPS frames? with FROST, a freakin' Defensive frame? 

I don't know guys, It really feels more and more like veterans are quitting the game and all that's left are clueless idiots, who make me want to quit the game as well because they make everything so damn difficult.
It's becoming increasingly rare to get a good team, and not to mention a similar minded team who'd want to stay for more than 5 minutes on freakin' Arbitrations, which are meant to be longer and harder.

I really think something in the UI should help you find a similar minded team- Maybe an LFG option or just having the option to be more picky with the automatching system,

I'd love your opinions on the whole topic, Thanks in advance!

With the current design tread driving veterans and many players away, it’s natural you see players who aren’t like good old veterans. 

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No, probably not. Warframe players are just as bad as they've always been. It's utterly independent of MR, too. I've muttered "You should know how these missions work by now" to players across the MR spectrum. We're all bad at the game. But that's because you don't have to be good to succeed.

Frankly, the only time the game has difficulty is at the beginning. Once you're past all that, it's just a question of who kills more people faster with their Ignis. 

Edited by Ham_Grenabe
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The problem is that the game doesnt have any defined difficulty, nor does it have any strict walls or lines that seperates the game modes properly. Almost everything is accessible to everyone, no matter how bad your loadout is. DE showed their lack of understanding regarding gates yet again when they released the intrinsic requirement to enter the different proximas. Anyone who has played any game with gates know that such a trivial and non-impactful thing as 7 ranks in a specific tree is not the gate to put up. Veil should have been locked behind full MK2 gear and 7 levels in an intrinsic tree, heck in two trees possibly. Full MK2 gear if you wanna host, 2 rank 7 intrinsic trees if you wanna join as a crew member.

The Arbis has the issue that it rewards endo, which is a leveling currency, not fitting at all for something that is indicated to be endgame. When the endo is present, people missunderstand it and think they are endgame ready with a bunch of half assed half leveled mods, because obviously the mode is intended to improve the mod progression since it rewards endo.

Personally I dont really care about the others in arbitrations unless its excav where individual player tardyness can #*!% it for the rest of the team. In the rest I can solo it perfectly fine, so if someone dies they can stay dead for all I care. For survival it is better they lie there on the ground instead of running around like an irratic squirrel on a nut-high chasing mobs all over the map, because when they are dead, the mobs will come to me.

Just to make it clear, I ment no disrespect to the avarage squirrel, just the nut junkies.

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From my observation, average players truly don’t know how to mod for maximum damage, for new content this is becoming more and more necessary.

The old argument is to state players don’t need to minmax for damage to play the game. This is a halftruth, players will need to start minmaxing as many many struggle to obliterate ship invaders on railjack when it should take one melee swing to clean them all up. Furthermore, it should also be noted New War enemies are becoming increasingly harder for the average player. These are all examples of the average player getting “worse” in your viewpoint.

If this does not sway you, let the public squads of Railjack be an example, players don’t do anything productive for your team or even communicate. This is the result of years of holding hands + spoonfed content

Edited by Midas
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vor 3 Stunden schrieb Benour:

Oh man i feel you, couldnt agree more, also this forum is full of them, as you can clearly see from some responses. 

Only tip i can give you, next time you enter such sheetshow, just check their mastery rank and if its under 25 or so, just dont bother and leave. And join some "serious" clan that have more ppl into endurance runs. Also on PC its common to have mr6 doing KUVA FLOODS. Im like dude i think you missclicked when choosing mission. I usually ress them few times and then just ignore 😎

Personally I only play with people at MR28, only the best are good enough. :cool:

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22 hours ago, (PS4)SrebX said:

With the whole UI and stats discussion lately I feel like I have to say something that's been on my mind for a while now-

More and more each and every day, it feels like the game is getting filled with plain awful players and clueless idiots.
It's one thing that always, since I've started playing the game about 8 months ago, I've been having a hard time finding players for longer endurance runs and more challenging runs. It's not for everyone, and however annoying that it, it's understandable.

But I don't know guys. Today I've had to carry 3 ppl who died after 1 rotation of excavators in Excavation Arbitration. All 3 died, after 1 freakin' rotation, and after I've revived all of them guess what happened? They died again and quit.
I love playing Frost and Wisp, which are 2 very defensive/utility based frames, and it's very often that I get 50-60% of the dmg done in a DEFENSE mission of 4 people, with both a Mesa and a Saryn- DPS frames.

I know the stats don't mean that much and the whole dmg done thing shouldn't be that much of a concern, but seriously? DEFENSE Mission which is all about killing? Outdamaging MESA and SARYN, the 2 best DPS frames? with FROST, a freakin' Defensive frame? 

I don't know guys, It really feels more and more like veterans are quitting the game and all that's left are clueless idiots, who make me want to quit the game as well because they make everything so damn difficult.
It's becoming increasingly rare to get a good team, and not to mention a similar minded team who'd want to stay for more than 5 minutes on freakin' Arbitrations, which are meant to be longer and harder.

I really think something in the UI should help you find a similar minded team- Maybe an LFG option or just having the option to be more picky with the automatching system,

I'd love your opinions on the whole topic, Thanks in advance!

I do not get it either. Relatively speaking, I would be considered a newbie to someone who has been playing the game for years. I have done more than 1 hour and 20 minutes in arbitration, I soloed Eidolon, I have at least a couple of frames with multiple forma including Umbra forma, and fully decked mods. I have 2-3 top melee weapon with BiS rolled rivens. I have most of the best best guns fully decked, some with rivens.

I have seen a thread someone complaining about Hydron. People dying in the first 1-2 rotation of arbitration. Or that level 50 Graineer are so hard. I do not get it..

I have stopped playing arbitrations in a random group. I do not want to keep reviving people, 3 minutes in.

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23 hours ago, (PS4)SrebX said:

I don't know guys, It really feels more and more like veterans are quitting the game and all that's left are clueless idiots, who make me want to quit the game as well because they make everything so damn difficult.
It's becoming increasingly rare to get a good team, and not to mention a similar minded team who'd want to stay for more than 5 minutes on freakin' Arbitrations, which are meant to be longer and harder.

Im probably not the first one to confirm this, but yes vets come and go all the time. But the other side of the players, not the real vets, but the newer vets? well whatever, the newer vets or good players are also leaving the game. The main culprit is probably boredom(and railjack being broken af, even tho its fun, and liches) because there is not much to do right now. And plague star is not the best event out there, it's not even fun anymore XD.

I don't consider myself a vet, but i've been playing constantly for 2 years now, well actually i haven't touched warframe in 2 weeks.

 

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I keep saying the same thing.

They need to separate us. Star chart noobies and high geared players shouldn't even be in the same pool of content.

After a certain threshold or milestone, we should unlock a higher tier of the Star chart populated with higher difficulty missions. 

The rotation system is dumb. No one knows what it means or that it even exists. The game tells players nothing. We shouldn't have to slog through an hour of lowbie trash before a survival mission gets mildly entertaining. It should just be fun and scaled properly from the get go.

I would rather do 1 round of survival at level 100+ than 5 of level 50. The endurance runs are a byproduct of improper content scaling. There'd be no need to do the same missions for hours on end if it was scaled properly.

 

 

Edited by IIDMOII
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16 minutes ago, -BG-StormFighter117 said:

No, the average skill level is lowering. The good players left years ago, the average players left a year ago, and low skilled high MR players are left.

I’ve seen entire alliances dissolve and it’s clans full of inactive with the players dated 2014 since last online.

I main Valkyr, playing level 50-60 content, I could literally drop the controller for 15-20 secs before mobs can kill me. 1 hit of melee weapon will kill mobs. 

I am unsure of how skill factors in here. I do not even need to do anything beside walking and hitting 1 button.

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Yeah, I really don't like fighting level 100 + enemies. Even through I have played since winter of 2017, I am not yet confident in my builds past level 70. Furthermore, I haven't really had to many problems with people in public squads. However, people showing up with undergeared frames is an issue.

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