Is the average Warframe player getting worse?

[kapn655321]

14 minutes ago, Pinegulf said:

As a  awful player and clueless idiot, I support implementation of LFG -system. 

Same. 100%.

[(PSN)JayCeeV3]

35 minutes ago, Pinegulf said:

As a  awful player and clueless idiot, I support implementation of LFG -system. 

Sadly, after three years and reaching only MR 18... Yup.

Meekly raises hand. 

[(PSN)SolarPhantom82]

On 2020-01-28 at 5:11 AM, (PS4)SrebX said:

I don't know guys, It really feels more and more like veterans are quitting the game

Well yeah. Between " the 2019 road map that was 50% missing . Christmas new war that never happened,   Lichers, broken railjack announced at game awards,  riven nurfs. Melee nurfs and  7 layers of RNG,

the vets are like " what has this game become " and have jumped off the hype train.. or hamster wheel.  Because the grind has gotten out of hand. ...so as the steam  numbers are showing,  there gone. . 

It's getting rare to see any tenno over mastery 20 ...

Edited January 29, 2020 by (PS4)SolarPhantom82

[Drachnyn]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb -BG-StormFighter117:

Just moving properly is something almost everyone I've met has difficulty with lmao.

This is mostly the reason I dont play pubs, it happens so rarely that someone beats me to extraction, who isnt one of my friends. Even less so when I use a speedframe myself. However I dont believe this has gotten any worse in the ~2 years I've been playing, it's just when I started out I was also bad at movement and didnt notice how good or bad everyone else was.

[844448]

1 hour ago, Pinegulf said:

As a  awful player and clueless idiot, I support implementation of LFG -system. 

 

1 hour ago, kapn655321 said:

Same. 100%.

 

1 hour ago, (PS4)JayCeeV3 said:

Sadly, after three years and reaching only MR 18... Yup.

Meekly raises hand. 

What is recruiting chat to you?

[kapn655321]

5 minutes ago, 844448 said:

What is recruiting chat to you?

A feature we recommend to people we don't like.

Edited January 29, 2020 by kapn655321

[kwlingo]

Go on Discord or some other Reddit tread Im sure you can find highly skilled individuates who are running 5hr missions somewhere. Contact them and set a time and date to go those missions. Other than that you're talking about Warframe, where the person your playing with might be 75 years old or 9 years old. Best of luck tenno

[Currilicious]

11 hours ago, (PS4)Herrwann69 said:

I don't get the point of bringing a build without damage burst in disruption, a mode only about damage burst. 

And what about Arca plasmor for lephantis ? Or something else than slova and Titania for the bow only lephantis sortie ? 

I'm ok with exotic builds but a Mr 25 + player that don't know what frame to bring for what mission is too common for Mr to mean something more than the time you spent leeching on Hydron.

You're getting me wrong here.

Even I was leveling a gun or two in a Lephantis sortie, I will still have enough juice to solo that mission. Herein lies your "beef". Not everyone plan ahead like I did, under the assumption that the other 3 people could be utter rubbish.

Do I think it's okay to build for a carry? No, absolutely disgusted. Are people doing it despite that? Yes.

So it's something we can't change, well at least in the current state of things. Well then, do yourself a favor, plan ahead and prepare at least sufficiently to complete the mission carrying the rest. You'll find that to be more fruitful if you intend to PUG. Who knows the feeling of power you have over the mission may even be addicting.

[Currilicious]

Double posted, @#$% network.

Edited January 29, 2020 by Currilicious

[tzadquiel]

irdk what this thread is about. as with every 'statistics' derivation, looks to me that people need to be every now and then reminded that 'average joe does not exist' 

[SneakyErvin]

12 hours ago, Graavarg said:

Not trying to start a flame war, but by what reasoning did you come to the conclusion that a) there is a "right" way of doing a mission, and b) that you have any right to decide what that way is? This is game, meant to be fun. For all. Doing it efficiently and/or fast is fun for some but not for others.

Everyone has the right to play a mission in their own way, and Warframe has maybe more options for this than any other comparable game. The only "wrong" equipment or build is one that isn't mission-capable (for that mission). If you join a mission open for all you accept that you do not have the right to demand that others play it in a certain way. If you cannot do that you should set up your own team using the recruit chat (or some other form of communication) or do it solo.

You pretty much describe bad players here. Because bad doesnt only come down to bad performance, bad also comes down to how you treat others. You dont go into a mission to be a drawback for the group unless you are a bad player. Certain expectations are still there in PuGs. You may not need to be the best, you should still consider that you share the time with others, so bring the right equipment etc. even though you may want to have "fun".

If you want perfectly performing groups you go do a premade.

If you want a group performing smooth yet avarage go and PuG.

If you wanna $&*^ around and have "fun", either do it solo or in a premade.

PuGs arent a thing that means you have the right to act like a complete asshat, no matter if you wanna toot around like the drill sgt in Full Metal Jacket or behave like Peter Griffin.

[Anduvriel]

Have no idea about the statistics, but it does seem that certain communities that were tied to specific activities that required more in-depth knowledge are getting smaller and smaller with each update. 

I was part of the raiding and relic hunters, knew some part of endurance runners and eidolon hunters community. My clan was aiming for "skilled" players.. Judging by the last logged it seems that a huge part of those communities is gone. My clan went from 70ish to 10ish in that time.. 

Does it matter? Depends.. Most of knowledge of how to do things is passed by clans, alliances and communities. Yes there are tons of youtube videos, wikia is really good etc.., but from my experience a lot of funny, powerful, not widely known things i learned from other players. 

I help new players trying to pass the knowledge i aquired. What i see on alliance chat, from new players is an increasing lack of guidance. I would never be where i am without some people.. 

Warframe is an easy game, but it also has tons of little tricks, hidden mechanics, hard to find interconnections between abilities etc. 

It might be that new players with just base knowledge, stay forever on that base level, because most of the time you don't need any of it to complete what the game throws at you. Problem starts when what they know is not enough.. Longer arbitration, tougher enemies and they are lost. 

Recently i found that its even hard to teach others on how to. Plasma sword, machete wraith is unusable for them.. Frost, gara, rhino cant aoe dps at all... My friends with incredible game knowledge are laughed at on alliance chat by mr10s..

And than i go into sortie spy with wukong. Mr 10-20s all lokis, ivaras writing i will leech and won't contribute.. I tell them i dont need any frame to do any spy and they don't believe.. I do my first vault before they even get to theirs and than rescue one more before failure.. They are clueless what happened, but they don't want to know..

Than i go with my vazarin nekros on 1h survi arbi in a premade. I am told i am not needed cause drones explode and i will die a lot. It ends with me reviving half of my team, keeping all of the supports intact, doing 70% of damage and 2k kills, earning 200k nanos. No one even wants to know how and why. 

Than i do a sortie defense with my speedva and a pellet weapon the rest is "he is a troll". When i put the defense target with my 3 in a safe unreachable place and make the mission twice as fast with 4 and do most of the damage and kills with my 2&4 they are clueless what happened.. No one asks.. 

And than we have a forum thread like this one.. We lack difficult coop content that creates communities around it. 

[Ham_Grenabe]

4 hours ago, kwlingo said:

Contact them and set a time and date to go those missions. Other than that you're talking about Warframe, where the person your playing with might be 75 years old or 9 years old.

And, importantly, the missions are 2 minutes long. 

You can deal with a bad player for 2 minutes. Even if - god forbid - they extend the mission time to three minutes.* 

[vegetosayajin]

I personally enjoy watching players struggle in arbies, it reminds me of the days past when I went there only with octavia because I was scared. 😄
Personally I play only public and have a great time even if I watch how people are clueless and sometimes ruin the spawns or get themselves killed all the time.

All that aside I know what you mean. Even in low level survival fissures when I go to help anyone, level some weapon and maybe get a good part in the process I mostly see people leaving on the 10 min mark...even if the spawns are great, good parts drop from relics, the chat is flowing with weird/amuzing sh1t from someone...even then I rarely get the whole team to stay together past the 40 min mark.Most of the time someone leaves at the 5-10 min.I just don't see the logic, because if you want shorter missions, choose another type of fissure.(I check and most of the time there is an alternative that is capture/rescue or somethin').Now I don't want to do more than 1-2 hours(it is boring as hell if you have the right setup), but 5 min?!...it's annoying.

[Ham_Grenabe]

2 minutes ago, vegetosayajin said:

I personally enjoy watching players struggle in arbies, it reminds me of the days past when I went there only with octavia because I was scared. 😄
Personally I play only public and have a great time even if I watch how people are clueless and sometimes ruin the spawns or get themselves killed all the time.

All that aside I know what you mean. Even in low level survival fissures when I go to help anyone, level some weapon and maybe get a good part in the process I mostly see people leaving on the 10 min mark...even if the spawns are great, good parts drop from relics, the chat is flowing with weird/amuzing sh1t from someone...even then I rarely get the whole team to stay together past the 40 min mark.Most of the time someone leaves at the 5-10 min.I just don't see the logic, because if you want shorter missions, choose another type of fissure.(I check and most of the time there is an alternative that is capture/rescue or somethin').Now I don't want to do more than 1-2 hours(it is boring as hell if you have the right setup), but 5 min?!...it's annoying.

So, I think this isn't that surprising from a low-level player or a high-level player because frankly, after 5 - 10 minutes of a survival mission (or a defense, or an interception)--and after doing all the endless missions it takes to get into this game a reasonable distance--it's not like you'll see something new. There are tons of reasons to leave early, but the biggest one that I can't argue with is just being bored.

I sometimes will go to the first rotation C in an endless, but I've seen everything Warframe can offer in an endless mission and so staying for even 10 minutes is like, 8 minutes too long. I'm bored the moment I start an endless mission, and I frequently just avoid them, no matter the rewards. No lie, the hardest nightwaves in the game for me are enduring the soul-numbing experience of a 20-wave defense or a 30-minute survival.

Obviously, I've also seen everything all the other missions can do -- but those are a few minutes long (at the longest, usually), with a defined start and stop, and when I'm done I can go do, I dunno, a sabotage and at least feel like I'm doing something a little different for the next 3-5 minutes. 

 

[(PSN)SrebX]

13 hours ago, Graavarg said:

Not trying to start a flame war, but by what reasoning did you come to the conclusion that a) there is a "right" way of doing a mission, and b) that you have any right to decide what that way is? This is game, meant to be fun. For all. Doing it efficiently and/or fast is fun for some but not for others.

I agree that everyone should play their own way, I'm not gonna complain to anyone who brings suboptimal build or frame or whatever, it's obviously understandable that different people and enjoy different things

BUT , and this is important, There is a wrong way to play the game. There is a wrong way to do a mission.

I can understand someone loving the Arca plasmor and it's capabilities, but bringing it to Lephantis is plain idiocy and ruins the game for you and your teammates 
Starting excavators when you have no CC or a way to protect it is plain idiocy and impedes your and your teammate's progress

Look, again, I'm not trying to hold anyone up to a rigid standard, different people play differently and like different stuff and invest a different amount of time into the game, I get it, but even if you're plalying a game mindlessly to just chill, you're probably still trying to play the game.
Bringing an Arca Plasmor to Lephantis isn't playing the game, dying and waiting for teammates to revive you in Arbtirations isn't playing the game.

[vegetosayajin]

5 minutes ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

 just being bored...

a sabotage and at least feel like I'm doing something a little different for the next 3-5 minutes. 

 

That was my point, if you don't want an endless there is an alternative most of the time.
If someone wants to stay longer then 5 min tho it's a bit of a bother because when one person leaves that is one relic less(If I want less chance for something I would play solo).Extract, enter again, extract again on an endless is just strange.
It's a strange topic, just don't mind me. 😄

[(PSN)thegarada]

18 hours ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

Exactly. Like I said earlier, we only had to be good - or at least, better than facerolling - when we were like, MR1's running around with 1 damaged Vitality and a MK-1 Braton.

The only thing you need to be good at as a veteran player is knowing whether one number is bigger than another in the mod screen. 

I agree. Skill (if it can be even called that) in WF is about understanding the games interact systems, and how to build your frames and weapons. It is rarely about in game play execution, since you can top that in less than 20 hours. It comes down to a bigger number. Though, that is what all looter shooter, MMOs and ARPGs are about. Understanding complicated systems.

The problem happens when the content stop pausing any threat and there are limited goals for the player to achieve. Personally, I would settle for more level 80-100 content. I  do not want to run content below that anymore. It is mostly a process of AOE one shooting with zero risk of dying. At least at level 100 if I screw up, I could potentially die/fail. And I do not even care if they up the rewards. I am not looking for a challenge. I am looking for no sleep walking. 

[ARAMN]

On 2020-01-27 at 2:11 PM, (PS4)SrebX said:

With the whole UI and stats discussion lately I feel like I have to say something that's been on my mind for a while now-

More and more each and every day, it feels like the game is getting filled with plain awful players and clueless idiots.
It's one thing that always, since I've started playing the game about 8 months ago, I've been having a hard time finding players for longer endurance runs and more challenging runs. It's not for everyone, and however annoying that it, it's understandable.

But I don't know guys.

same happen with Eve-Online when developers started dumbing down the game mechanics as well with the play style of the game to cater to masses of players that aren't looking for becoming better with higher difficulty that's what it start to happen. now where's EvE? morbid with a F2P population.

 

On 2020-01-27 at 2:11 PM, (PS4)SrebX said:

It really feels more and more like veterans are quitting the game and all that's left are clueless idiots, who make me want to quit the game as well because they make everything so damn difficult.
It's becoming increasingly rare to get a good team, and not to mention a similar minded team who'd want to stay for more than 5 minutes on freakin' Arbitrations, which are meant to be longer and harder.

I really think something in the UI should help you find a similar minded team- Maybe an LFG option or just having the option to be more picky with the automatching system,

I'd love your opinions on the whole topic, Thanks in advance!

arbitration started being the hardest mode and now is just another joke of a mode.

 

remember Raid mission mode, i do. but DE preferred to maintain a mode that has almost no population (PVP). and give us a broken space pirate (Sea Of Thieves,Atlas) knockoff of bad proportions (Railjack).

now with UI changes i really don't see any other assumption that their are trying to get some of those players that are from the death royal play style.... ON A PvE shooter. why?!...

[Aldain]

11 hours ago, 844448 said:

What is recruiting chat to you?

A clunky system that depending on your server, console and regional location can be either dead or in multiple different languages.

[Graavarg]

16 hours ago, (PS4)SrebX said:

BUT , and this is important, There is a wrong way to play the game. There is a wrong way to do a mission.

I can understand someone loving the Arca plasmor and it's capabilities, but bringing it to Lephantis is plain idiocy and ruins the game for you and your teammates 
Starting excavators when you have no CC or a way to protect it is plain idiocy and impedes your and your teammate's progress

I agree with you 100%. There are wrong ways to play the game, but there is no single right way.

Hm, just noticed I was sitting here considering if that last sentence contains a huge chunk of the "Warframe Experience"... 🙂

In PUG missions with randoms there are two applicable standards, sort of. The first one is what the game developer allows. And that is easy, Warframe allows just about everything and anything for everyone, as long as they invest enough time to reach a certain point. You might have to do a questline, have a lvl 30 warframe and have the starmap unlocked, but basically none of those says anything about your about your "ability", "knowledge" or "level of play".

As the result of the first one not really addressing any of the problems discussed in this thread) the second becomes more important, and since that is what "the community" demands or expects it is, and probably always will be a source of contention. "The community" consists of millions and millions of players from all over the globe, all playing Warframe in their own way, with their own goals and with their own personal moods and behavioural red lines.

Forcing all these players to play the game in a much narrower way is not good for the game, the community or even the players themselves. At the same time Warframe is a co-op game, with a lot of depth found in co-op and team composition and play, and simply for this reason alone the game should do its outmost both to promote "co-op" play and punish anti-"co-op" behaviour. While allowing players do most things solo as well.

I cannot see a rule-set or matching system that could successfully handle the complexity of all this. The only solution I can see is giving players better and clearer options when selecting how to play. Both "opt-in" and "opt-out" options. I do think there is a real possibility of improvement in this regard.

Adding a new ranking system for "elite mission participation" and adding an "elite" option to a few select missions could function as an "opt-in", with ranking copying and expanding on the demands the players themselves are using (in recruit chat). To get a "Trid elite"-mark you could have to do something like 100 successful Trid hunts, successfully capture at least 3 Trids in one night and soloing Trids 3 times never using the same warframe or weapon twice. Soloing has to be an integral part of such a ranking system to avoid "carry" problems. And it is not enough that the challenge level would be "high", as this is all about co-op play it has to be "broad" as well. Elite level shouldn't simply be about getting over some challenge line, it should be about facilitating co-op play, which translates into understanding and having experience from using a lot more than just the own go-to META gear.

Since you can select which missions you participate in but not who you play with (in PUG/randoms), the "opt-out" could simply be a system allowing you to avoid players that play Warframe in a way you do not personally like. Having a "I don't want to play with player X again for 1 day/1 week/1 month/1 year"-option is an easy and effective way to handle this. This would also function as a much-needed "anti-leecher" system (just block the f*ckers). Anal-retentives who would end up blocking a million players could either blame themselves (for lack of co-op) or simply be forced to use a smaller block list.

[kapn655321]

19 hours ago, tzadquiel said:

irdk what this thread is about. as with every 'statistics' derivation, looks to me that people need to be every now and then reminded that 'average joe does not exist' 

[Graavarg]

19 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

PuGs arent a thing that means you have the right to act like a complete asshat, no matter if you wanna toot around like the drill sgt in Full Metal Jacket or behave like Peter Griffin.

Well, in part agree with you, of course. But those aren't the real rules, it is just our personal view.

If you look at this from a "jurisdictional" viewpoint, DE sets the rules and as long as you follow them it is ok. It's a bit like participating in an election, as long as you fulfil the requirements you can vote for any idiot you like, even if you are a ignorant idiot yourself and have a completely f*ck-up view of how society should function.

Currently, our only option is to leave. If the player is not just "bad" but actively trying to f*ck up the mission you can also report the behaviour, but unfortunately this seems to have little effect.

At least, that is how I view PUGs. When I meet the occasional idiot or leecher, I leave. But most players I meet are just normal players, and some are excellent. And in Warframe there are still Tennos that are kind, helpful and nice.

- - -

Sometimes I encounter mini-hitlers/besserwissers, lecturing and dissing other players setups and playstyle. These I rank with the "idiots", but since they usually also can play ok I seldom leave such missions, just ignore their prattling in chat. Had one the other night lecturing me why Mag was a bad choice (fairly high Grineer surv), including stuff along the lines "Mag is a wimp", "no high level players use Mag" and "next time bring a better warframe" 🙂. That was actually fun (as anyone knowing what Mag actually can do can imagine 😄).

[Chicken-Biryani]

1 hour ago, Graavarg said:

Sometimes I encounter mini-hitlers/besserwissers

Careful what words you use, you may end up with a warning for this. Speaking from experience. If you don't know what a warning is, then do consider checking it out. 

[SneakyErvin]

3 hours ago, Graavarg said:

Well, in part agree with you, of course. But those aren't the real rules, it is just our personal view.

If you look at this from a "jurisdictional" viewpoint, DE sets the rules and as long as you follow them it is ok. It's a bit like participating in an election, as long as you fulfil the requirements you can vote for any idiot you like, even if you are a ignorant idiot yourself and have a completely f*ck-up view of how society should function.

Currently, our only option is to leave. If the player is not just "bad" but actively trying to f*ck up the mission you can also report the behaviour, but unfortunately this seems to have little effect.

At least, that is how I view PUGs. When I meet the occasional idiot or leecher, I leave. But most players I meet are just normal players, and some are excellent. And in Warframe there are still Tennos that are kind, helpful and nice.

- - -

Sometimes I encounter mini-hitlers/besserwissers, lecturing and dissing other players setups and playstyle. These I rank with the "idiots", but since they usually also can play ok I seldom leave such missions, just ignore their prattling in chat. Had one the other night lecturing me why Mag was a bad choice (fairly high Grineer surv), including stuff along the lines "Mag is a wimp", "no high level players use Mag" and "next time bring a better warframe" 🙂. That was actually fun (as anyone knowing what Mag actually can do can imagine 😄).

DE's rules are very vague through. Pretty much anything goes aslong as you dont leech excessively or straight up grief other players. Our own rules as players are the only rules worth a damn. We arent exactly asking anything special, it is just that WF is filled with more questionable players than most other games and that is even though this game has a solo option for pretty much everything. It has worked well in online games since they started back in the 90's, yet somehow the WF community needs to stand out for some odd reasons. A place where common PuG rules and expectations dont apply. I can bet my left nut that it has to do with the younger generation these days, since when I started out I wouldnt have dreamt of treating my fellow players the way many people do today when it comes to PuGs.