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More maneuvers need to be immune to enemy grapples and drags.


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Almost 1700 hours in at this point.  The knockdown spam is literally just as annoying now as it was day one.  What's worse is that the grapple type knockdowns might as well be hitscan for how easily they snatch you out of the air.  They're practically unavoidable unless you play this game like a Dark Souls boss fight, and if you're facing infested (like the practically forced ODS farm if you ever want to finish Hema reserach.) The game decides 50% of the enemies should be ancients and even if you're moving constantly and killing very quickly you still get knocked down and dragged constantly or stuck in that overly long "resist knockdown" animation.

Bullet jumps and slide attacks should be knockdown immune.  Tactical forward combos should also be knockdown immune.  It's hardly "tactical" if I get snatched out of my forward somersaulting lunge half the time I'm in one.  This would give incentive to stay on the move and use parkour and more of the melee combos during combat to prevent getting grabbed, where right now it's still a crap shoot on if you're getting snatched out of the air regardless of what you're doing aside from rolling.

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True pretty fustrating when 3+ ancient eximus or scorpion units target you at the same time, clipping you in a same spot not being able to scape or anything even worst if you're in the point of the endless mission where they one shot you, enemies in the game need to be reworked, for now grappling immunity when you're on bullet jump or sliding would be appreciated.

For now I try to putt as knockdown resistance as possible but that means sacrifice something else.

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What about roll? 

Спойлер

 

You probably never used it. Also, all abilities give resistance to knockdown and stun when applied. Previously, heavy blades gave immunity and this was a brainless spam button E with which mobs could do nothing. However, you can still block blows and defend against knockdown in this way, but you don't use it. 

I understand when players ask for a quick deliverance system from knockdown, because mobs can actually do this indefinitely. But protection from it is already present in the game and you simply do not use it.

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I would agree that the “grapple-maneuvers” within the game can be obnoxious to infuriating, especially when still starting out. I don’t think it would be a good idea to make various movement options in Warframe immune to the grapples as it would not fix the problem and would incentivize DE to go further into “tentacle land” than they already have. 
 

The best way to fix the issue is to adjust the enemy targeting to a narrow cone directly in front of the enemy, where if the player were to cross out of it it would no longer connect. There is also the fact that the grapple is a delayed hitscan projectile in which, if it looks as though it might hit you, it will. A simple fix would be to make it non-hitscan. 

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3 hours ago, zhellon said:

What about roll? 

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You probably never used it. Also, all abilities give resistance to knockdown and stun when applied. Previously, heavy blades gave immunity and this was a brainless spam button E with which mobs could do nothing. However, you can still block blows and defend against knockdown in this way, but you don't use it. 

I understand when players ask for a quick deliverance system from knockdown, because mobs can actually do this indefinitely. But protection from it is already present in the game and you simply do not use it.

 

On 2020-01-28 at 6:36 PM, (XB1)TehChubbyDugan said:

aside from rolling.

 

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@(XB1)TehChubbyDugan In addition to roll, I listed 2 other tools that you can always use on any frame. Ability to (I mean the standard immunity when goes animation) and melee block. You can also always use wyrm, which also has no animation when mob are trying to knockdown. 

I don't see the point in giving players everything you suggested, because it would just generate mindless melee spam and slide moving. And everyone always uses bulletjump, which is the fastest means of moving that mobs stop using only knockdown. 

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Just now, zhellon said:

@(XB1)TehChubbyDugan In addition to roll, I listed 2 other tools that you can always use on any frame. Ability to (I mean the standard immunity when goes animation) and melee block. You can also always use wyrm, which also has no animation when you are trying to knockdown. 

I don't see the point in giving players everything you suggested, because it would just generate mindless melee spam and slide moving. And everyone always uses bulletjump, which is the fastest means of moving that mobs stop using only knockdown. 

No, you made a bunch of assumptions, didn't read what I actually wrote and told me to use what's already in the game, which that not being enough to prevent constant knockdown spam (unless I want to be stuck using one type of weapon.) is the entire reason I made the post.  There is no reason that we should be getting snatched out of the air while spinning around (the same way you can't get grappled while rolling around.) with laser precision by what at least feel like hitscan grapples.  Doing a forward lunging combo, which USES the block button should also negate grapples the same way a roll does and the same way heavy weapon momentum does.  Yet I can be in the middle of a lunging attack toward an enemy and have that enemy just cancel me out with a hit scan grapple.  Meanwhile you can literally kill an enemy at the start of the grapple animation, before you get hit, and still get grappled because their attacks don't get interrupted like ours do, even by death.  10 minutes into infested survival missions half the enemies spawning are ancients.  I should not be rolling around the battlefield holding block like I'm playing Dark Souls while trying to prioritize half the screen so that I don't get dragged around.

I don't know why there always have to be contrarian people that just show up to threads like these screaming "CHANGE BAD" when what's being asked for hurts no one and helps everyone.  Grapples are annoying, lazy game design, doubly so when they get spammed at the player every couple of seconds.

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8 минут назад, (XB1)TehChubbyDugan сказал:
I don't know why there always have to be contrarian people that just show up to threads like these screaming "CHANGE BAD" when what's being asked for hurts no one and helps everyone. Grapples are annoying, lazy game design, doubly so when they get spammed at the player every couple of seconds.

The point is that you are trying to solve a problem where there is no problem. Your complaint is that mobs use knockdown against you too often. (OK, if mobs could complain, there would be a lot of topics about nerf players). In my opinion, this should be fixed with the help of the behavior tree, that if 1 mob uses knockdown against you, then for other mobs this action will be blocked in the nearest N seconds. This way, you will always face only 1 opponent and will always be able to avoid knockdown by means that already exist in the game. 

But, allowing players to abuse their immunity all the time in my opinion is a bad idea. It is easier then to delete knockdown.

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Just now, zhellon said:

The point is that you are trying to solve a problem where there is no problem.

Yeah, the very regular threads and comments complaining about knockdown spam from enemies, even the videos that warframe partners have made in the past showing people just getting spam dragged from one ancient to another without being able to do anything about it say otherwise.

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Только что, (XB1)TehChubbyDugan сказал:

Yeah, the very regular threads and comments complaining about knockdown spam from enemies, even the videos that warframe partners have made in the past showing people just getting spam dragged from one ancient to another without being able to do anything about it say otherwise.

Now read the message in full.

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Только что, (XB1)TehChubbyDugan сказал:
Nah, I'm good. You're just telling me I'm wrong because your opinion says I'm wrong, it's what you've been doing the whole time and I'm over it.

No, you are not wrong in the sense that knockdown happens too often. You are mistaken in the sense that players need additional funds to block knockdown, when players simply need to simply reduce to a reasonable limit the number of knockdown that mobs apply to players. 

There are many systems that solve this problem, such as where a player becomes immune to control for a while if several controls are applied against them in a row. I suggested solving this problem by using the behavior of mobs. Yes, this won't work against bosses and mobs at the same time, but the game should prompt when you need to evade the boss's knockdown using animation.

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Agree, but maybe just make it bullet jumps imo. Its easy to just stay bullet jumping and rolling constantly, even using just 1 of the 2. But if bullet jumping blocked, would be cool to dodge the attack and then gun them down afterwards.

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