Jump to content
Jade Shadows: Share Bug Reports and Feedback Here! ×

Ideas for improving Kuva Liches to make them more fun


SolidSnake8774
 Share

Recommended Posts

 

Instead of the requiem mods on liches needing to HAVE to be the right sequence to kill them and Instead of having the wrong one and just being auto killed. 
The wrong one will just cause the lich to flee, and will change a modifier on the lich or something depending on what requiem it was.
Like a wrong requiem would maybe add a resistance or immunity or a certain buff like from the disruptions to the lich and all their thralls depending on what mod it was that was wrong. Since instead of hindering the lich like it is supposed to, to allow you to permanently kill it, the mod empowered it.

But each time you use the right one, it add a weakness, changes or locks out a power, or drops some of the stuff they've taken from you thus far.

That and having the liches being able to appear in regular gameplay, and not just their own segregated missions. But have it no matter the map, when a lich spawns, thier own grineer units  at thier own levels seperate from the normal enemies and spawn in addition to the normal enemies that are usually on that tileset. So it makes some sort of sense.

I think that would have been more interesting, and give the requiem mods some actual meaning themselves rather than just arbitrarily being a bland guessing game.

Something along the lines of this I took time to try and plan it out.

 

Edited by SolidSnake8774
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The first concept is nice but it kind of takes away the reason to attempt trial and error on the lich. As it is, people avoid parazoning their lich to keep its level low. If we started adding buffs to wrong attempts, that will discourage people even more. We want the opposite effect. We want people attempting to fight the lich before the requiem mods are known.

The second one I would wholeheartedly support, because I love the lich system and would like it to be part of the main gameplay. But unfortunately many people don't want to indulge in it and it wouldn't be fair to force anyone to be part of a certain part of the game that they are not interested in. Especially in low level areas where people are simply either farming resources or clearing missions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Arkennstar said:

The first concept is nice but it kind of takes away the reason to attempt trial and error on the lich. As it is, people avoid parazoning their lich to keep its level low. If we started adding buffs to wrong attempts, that will discourage people even more. We want the opposite effect. We want people attempting to fight the lich before the requiem mods are known.

The second one I would wholeheartedly support, because I love the lich system and would like it to be part of the main gameplay. But unfortunately many people don't want to indulge in it and it wouldn't be fair to force anyone to be part of a certain part of the game that they are not interested in. Especially in low level areas where people are simply either farming resources or clearing missions.

Not really, I would not say it takes away the reason to attempt, if anything I say it gives more reason. Its more of an actual risk/reward system. Successfully guessing the right requiem would and could potentially make facing the lich easier.The whole reason people and even I avoid bothering to parazon the lich until I know the murmurs, is because it makes the liches harder, and takes over more territory for them to take stuff, and just makes them a pain and tedious, in addition of making the missions overall itself harder.

In this method, the missions will still be thier normal levels and not segregated to thier own versions of every node, but the lich and its reinforcements will be at thier levels. And you still have the option of weither to kill the lich or the 3 downs until flee. And also doesnt hard punish you for failing it just for some murmur gain, cause it just feels bad.  Guessing wrong wouldnt do that much different than what already happens when you fail a requiem. Only difference is, you have some control on what happens giving each requiem possible effects that could happen. And Successfully doing a requiem hindering them in one way. So you can have a sort of choice weither to risk going through one, two or with all 3 to try and kill it there, or just down it until it flees, to save the encounter for later for when you're ready, leaving the lich hindered and at a disadvantage when it next appears. 

I believe this gives more choice and actual engagement with the liches. Currently when you down a lich, you're either going all 3 or you're not at all in one go. With the proposal, you have options and choices in what you do, and how you engage with them, and can actually plan for next encounters. And you know, actually have an actual persisting adversary that was initially pitched for the liches.

Edited by SolidSnake8774
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I always parazon my lich. The lich becoming harder is a minor inconvenience for me. What I don't enjoy is getting auto-killed, because I have put in a lot of effort into not dying prior to Liches. And with the Lich introduction I died more in a couple of weeks than I have gotten downed in all other missions put together.

Edited by Frendh
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Frendh said:

I always parazon my lich. The lich becoming harder is a minor inconvenience for me. What I don't enjoy is getting auto-killed, because I have put in a lot of effort into not dying prior to Liches. And with the Lich introduction I died more in a couple of weeks than I have gotten downed in all other missions put together.

Yeah I got rid of that arbitrary fail state in my proposal for that reason, cause it just feels bad and cheap. A death with nothing you can do about it. And I also dont like building up unnecessary deaths in my profile stats.

Edited by SolidSnake8774
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would also propose something to be done with murmurs.
But if thralls and liches can appear in regular missions. There wouldnt really be a need to. As the only thing that makes thralls and murmur gatheirng so tedious is because you have to go to isolated missions specifically for them.

At least in regular missions, You can fulfill those, while also doing whatever else you're doing in regular play, and not have to dedicate large swaths of time solely just for that and doesnt factor in to anything else in the game you normally do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Will never be fun. They are contained to a lich-specific missions. And they will never be as free as a stalker. So basically they are grind incarnate - you only ever see them when you decide to grind for them in the first place. It would be fun to see a lich pop into your arbitration or something important and break your leeching squadmate's back. I wish i could buy lvl 5 lich beacon on the market that would try to kill the nearest player. Make it like 25p, 60 for a bundle of 3. Oh man, so much fun.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, Akai-no-bara said:

Will never be fun. They are contained to a lich-specific missions. And they will never be as free as a stalker. So basically they are grind incarnate - you only ever see them when you decide to grind for them in the first place. It would be fun to see a lich pop into your arbitration or something important and break your leeching squadmate's back. I wish i could buy lvl 5 lich beacon on the market that would try to kill the nearest player. Make it like 25p, 60 for a bundle of 3. Oh man, so much fun.

They did mention a few times on intending to expand where they appear and out of that isolated bubble they're in. So its not impossible.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

Heres along the lines Im thinking of effects the Requiem Mods would have with 1 possible effect randomly selected when used. A good accompaniment to make this work to its fullest, would be to allow the tenno to be able to stab its lich all 3 times. Even if the requiems are wrong, you can still at least check all 3 if you want. otherwise can 3 down the lich as normal to dismiss it, and get the same amount of murmur gain as now as long as one of the choices were wrong.


Fass
FassRequiemMod

Successful use:
+ adds random damage weakness to Lich
+ Thralls will randomly turn against other grineer.
+ Lich becomes unable to focus on a single target for long.

Failure on use:
-melee attacks on Lich recoils damage of lich's element back with 5 sec intervals
-Thralls will become eximus units
- 30% faster reloads for lich and thralls


-------------------------

Jahu

JahuRequiemMod

Successful use:
+ Lich and Thralls deal 30% less damage from all sources.
+ Lich and Thralls take 25% more damage from blades (swords, dual swords, dual daggers,machete,nikanas,claws)
+ Executing Lich and/or thralls have 50% chance for 50% increased resources from drops for squad for 120 secs.

Failure on use:
-Resistant to warframe abilities to thralls and Liches
-Will bestow thralls with heat damage
-Gains a damage immunity to Lich.

-------------------------------------------------
Khra
KhraRequiemMod


Successful use:
+ Lich and Thralls take 25% more damage from bludgeoning weapons (Hammers, Sword and Shield, staves, nunchaku, tonfas)
+ Disables 1 random power of a lich, each time a lich appears.
+ Executing Lich and/or thralls have 50% chance for 50% increased affinity for squad for 120 secs.

Failure on use:
-Thralls gain speed boosts.
-Thralls tend to throw enhanced grenades.
-Executed Lich and/or thralls empowers nearby enemies with increased health.

----------------------------
Lohk
LohkRequiemMod

Successful use:
+ Lich and Thralls take 25% more damage from piercing weaponry (daggers,scythes, rapiers,)
+ Thralls and Liches drop abundant caches of supplies upon execution. (bundles of Energy,ammo and health orbs at once )
+ Lich and Thralls have reduced accuracy

Failure on use:
- Bestows Thralls with cold damage
- Lich becomes resistant to their own element, extends this resistance to their thralls.
- Lich and Thralls gain 30% more fire rate.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Netra
NetraRequiemMod

Successful use:
+ Lich and thralls have reduced armor values, executing will grant the single Tenno +500 armor for 12s.
+ Lich and Thralls take 25% more damage from reaching weapons (Whips, blade and whip, polearms, glaives, gunblades)
+ Lich gets a random immunity or resistance removed.

Failure on use:
- Cycles out a lich's damage resistance for another.
- Bestows thralls with electricity damage.
- Thralls can turn invisible for a few seconds.

-------------------------------------------------------

Ris
RisRequiemMod

Successful use:
+ Lich and Thralls take 25% more damage from close quarters weapons (sparring, fists, daggers, warfans)
+ Lich's shields are halved and executed thralls instantly restores the single Tenno's shields to full.
+ Executing Lich and/or thralls have 50% chance for 50% increased credit drops for squad for 120 secs.

Failure on use:
- Lich will become 20% more faster and more aggressive
- Bestow Thralls with toxin damage.
- Lich will passively sacrifice their own thrall's health to restore Lich's shields if nearby.

-------------------------------

Vome
VomeRequiemMod


Successful use:
+ Lich and Thralls randomly staggers through their appearance in a mission.
+ Lich and Thralls take 25% more damage from heavy weapons. (Hammers, Heavy Blade, 2h nikana)
+ Executing a lich or thrall will grant squad life leech on all damage for 30 secs.

Failure on use:
- Thralls become resistant to finishers
- Tenno downed from thralls or liches have 25% lowered bleedout timers.
- Lich's afflicted status effects persist 100% longer.


------------------------------------------

Xata
XataRequiemMod

Successful use:
+ Thralls will often not attack and run in fear.
+ Lich will drop double Kuva amount and will guarantee it upon leaving mission.
+ Lich becomes 300% weak to its own element.

Failure on use:
- Lich swaps current resistances and weaknesses when shields are depleted
- Liches and Thralls will become very accurate at long ranges and scale down to normal accuracy closer thier target is.
- Lich and Thralls melee hits become stronger.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


These are more along the lines I was thinking to spice up encounters with Kuva Liches and thier thralls. And help them feel like actual liches.
Theres some overlap in some things, but I think its okay to have a little bit of overlap. Of course the same requiem mod used, would overwrite the last's effect with a randomly selected new one. This was also made in mind with the oncoming changes to status procs, armor/shield scaling and arcane changes too such as the shield effects actually being worth something.

There was a certain flow and theme when I came up with these. Usually along the lines of a major, minor  and medium/fun effect. As for the effects on the mods. I think they should remain hidden to directly view, but be able to see what effect was added in the Lich's screen. Perhaps under a name for each effect to relay what it does. theres definitely ample room for it on the lich screen, perhaps under where thier traits would be if they have one. It helps relay the actual significance of the these requiem mods and why thier uniquely needed to permanently deal with a lich, and how the wrong orders could incidentally empower a lich instead of weakening it, and thus also extends this to some of their thralls.


 

Edited by SolidSnake8774
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The first idea will produce the opposite effect from what you desire simply because RNG is involved. Yes, guessing the correct requiem giving the lich a weakness is nice, but the chances of guessing the correct requiem is 1/8. In other words, you have a 7/8 chance of making your lich unnecessarily harder and more annoying to deal with should these changes be implemented. The risk far outweighs the reward and thus would drive people away from stabbing their liches further. The only time where these proposed changes would be useful is the lucky guess, or when you have revealed the correct requiems. But by then, you will either know the correct sequence to get rid of the lich, or be trying to figure out the correct sequence which would add another unnecessary layer of annoyance for when you do find the correct sequence and just want to get rid of the lich asap and move on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, SolidSnake8774 said:

Heres along the lines Im thinking of effects the Requiem Mods would have with 1 possible effect randomly selected when used.

Fass
FassRequiemMod

Successful use:
+ adds random damage weakness to Lich
+ Thralls will randomly turn against other grineer.
+ Lich becomes unable to focus on a single target for long.

Failure on use:
-melee attacks on Lich recoils damage of lich's element back with 5 sec intervals
-Thralls will become eximus units
- 30% faster reloads for lich and thralls


-------------------------

Jahu

JahuRequiemMod

Successful use:
+ Lich and Thralls deal 30% less damage from all sources.
+ Lich and Thralls take 25% more damage from blades (swords, dual swords, dual daggers,machete,nikanas,claws)
+ Executing Lich and/or thralls have 50% chance for 50% increased resources from drops for squad for 120 secs.

Failure on use:
-Resistant to warframe abilities to thralls and Liches
-Will bestow thralls with heat damage
-Gains a damage immunity to Lich.

-------------------------------------------------
Khra
KhraRequiemMod


Successful use:
+ Lich and Thralls take 25% more damage from bludgeoning weapons (Hammers, Sword and Shield, staves, nunchaku, tonfas)
+ Disables 1 random power of a lich, each time a lich appears.
+ Executing Lich and/or thralls have 50% chance for 50% increased affinity for squad for 120 secs.

Failure on use:
-Thralls gain speed boosts.
-Thralls tend to throw enhanced grenades.
-Executed Lich and/or thralls empowers nearby enemies with increased health.

----------------------------
Lohk
LohkRequiemMod

Successful use:
+ Lich and Thralls take 25% more damage from piercing weaponry (daggers,scythes, rapiers,)
+ Thralls and Liches drop abundant caches of supplies upon execution. (bundles of Energy,ammo and health orbs at once )
+ Lich and Thralls have reduced accuracy

Failure on use:
- Bestows Thralls with cold damage
- Lich becomes resistant to their own element, extends this resistance to their thralls.
- Lich and Thralls gain 30% more fire rate.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Netra
NetraRequiemMod

Successful use:
+ Lich and thralls have reduced armor values, executing will grant the single Tenno +500 armor for 12s.
+ Lich and Thralls take 25% more damage from reaching weapons (Whips, blade and whip, polearms, glaives, gunblades)
+ Lich gets a random immunity or resistance removed.

Failure on use:
- Cycles out a lich's damage resistance for another.
- Bestows thralls with electricity damage.
- Thralls can turn invisible for a few seconds.

-------------------------------------------------------

Ris
RisRequiemMod

Successful use:
+ Lich and Thralls take 25% more damage from close quarters weapons (sparring, fists, daggers, warfans)
+ Lich's shields are halved and executed thralls instantly restores the single Tenno's shields to full.
+ Executing Lich and/or thralls have 50% chance for 50% increased credit drops for squad for 120 secs.

Failure on use:
- Lich will become 20% more faster and more aggressive
- Bestow Thralls with toxin damage.
- Lich will passively sacrifice their own thrall's health to restore Lich's shields if nearby.

-------------------------------

Vome
VomeRequiemMod


Successful use:
+ Lich and Thralls randomly staggers through their appearance in a mission.
+ Lich and Thralls take 25% more damage from heavy weapons. (Hammers, Heavy Blade, 2h nikana)
+ Executing a lich or thrall will grant squad life leech on all damage for 30 secs.

Failure on use:
- Thralls become resistant to finishers
- Tenno downed from thralls or liches have 25% lowered bleedout timers.
- Lich's afflicted status effects persist 100% longer.


------------------------------------------

Xata
XataRequiemMod

Successful use:
+ Thralls will often not attack and run in fear.
+ Lich will drop double Kuva amount and will guarantee it upon leaving mission.
+ Lich becomes 300% weak to its own element.

Failure on use:
- Lich swaps current resistances and weaknesses when shields are depleted
- Liches and Thralls will become very accurate at long ranges and scale down to normal accuracy closer thier target is.
- Lich and Thralls melee hits become stronger.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


These are more along the lines I was thinking to spice up encounters with Kuva Liches and thier thralls. And help them feel like actual liches.
Theres some overlap in some things, but I think its okay to have a little bit of overlap. Of course the same requiem mod used, would overwrite the last's effect with a randomly selected new one. This was also made in mind with the oncoming changes to status procs, armor/shield scaling and arcane changes too such as the shield effects actually being worth something.

There was a certain flow and theme when I came up with these. Usually along the lines of a major, minor  and medium/fun effect. As for the effects on the mods. I think they should remain hidden to directly view, but be able to see what effect was added in the Lich's screen. Perhaps under a name for each effect to relay what it does. theres definitely ample room for it on the lich screen, perhaps under where thier traits would be if they have one. It helps relay the actual significance of the these requiem mods and why thier uniquely needed to permanently deal with a lich, and how the wrong orders could incidentally empower a lich instead of weakening it, and thus also extends this to some of their thralls.


 

I'm just getting heavy into lich weapon hunting and I really like your requiem mod ideas! It's a nice extra element that, in my opinion, could really boost the hunt when the lich system expands. Awesome stuff!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks. The general premise is there for more direct engagement with the system is what Im going for and keeping  the system in general making sense while keeping the same monotomy you go through with every lich being the exact same.

I think a good accompany to this would allow you able to stab your lich all 3 times. Even if the requiems are wrong, you can still at least check all 3.

Atm you only have two choices for doing murmurs. Either just keep killing the same ol thralls the same ol way to get full requiems revealed, or just keep stabbing with the random guessing of the lich, with nothing really happening except the missions lvls raise.

With this, you can guess and have a good effect if you guess right, play it safe and wait until you get at least 1 murmur for a garranteed effect, and go guessing for the 2nd and third, risking negative effects but also able to exchange them for different ones if you really dont like them when it next appears either using the same wrong requiem to rotate it to another, or attempt to guess a different set altogether.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...