Dev Workshop - Kuva Lich Changes Coming Soon™ PART 2

[Cuchovsky]

Please leave the backbreaking in, just not instakill us (50% dmg to health on backbraking sounds reasonable). We want our backs broken! not our lifes taken!

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

I am very happy to see the removal of death on fail-random-guess. That was the primary thing holding me back from even considering interacting with the system. I will echo the idea that the Lich should "die" even on our failed attempts, but be reborn like a Lich... drawing a new power in from the connection formed between us through the Parazon.

The game-y-ness of the weapon picture and name appearing over the larvaling could be lessened by giving it the cephalon treatment of little glowing squares along the edges, perhaps Ordis has scanned it, and sends a message to the Operator during the initial introductory quest that the system should have: "Operator, this Grineer is suffering from severe clone rot and is eminating a strange Kuva signature, and so is its weapon... KILL IT NOW... Put it out of its misery... AND LOOT THE ... bring the weapon back for further study."

Edit: and when you parazon the larvling, Ordis comments about a strange reaction as it disolves away with the weapon... only to be reborn after the mission ends.  .... which might fit better as part of an introductory quest... and subsequent (all future) larvlings just have Ordis scanning the grineer and saying something about predicting the resulting reaction of this grineer... "Operator, this Grineer larvling has a gene-kuvetic link with this weapon. Successfully breaking that link will LET YOU LOOT ITS WEAPON,... Take control of it, and KILL THE WORM... put it out of its kuva-inflicted endless misery. Of course, you could also try to remove/replace/fix (whatever the lore is here when you convert a Lich to your side) the tainted Kuva..."

Edit: added a mock up with cephalon stuff...

[SQLOwns]

Should make the forma increase the damage, so it less painful to level multiple times, 5 forma = +60%

valence transfer should be used to only change damage type, electricity -> corrosive, toxin -> heat, etc.....

 

also, enemy level is too high

[kyori]

23 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

2 more Weapons entering the Kuva Fold!

Why Anku got a Kuva version? It is not even a Grineer weapon.

[Deshiel]

Instead of some weird picture of the weapon hovering above downed larvaling, make the larvas wield the weapons in hand. This is far better showcase than some immersion breaking icon howering above them. Naturaly, once spawned, the larvling will escape with the weapon.

[(PSN)Zero_029]

I was really hoping the Requiem mods & relics could have a passover.

They are NOT fun in the slightest to farm, the charge system is bleh.

I feel as though Murmur's should be the first step to the mystery, then once discovered acquiring the Mods should be a sort of quest.

Example:

After discovering all 3 Death Words, the Tenno unlocks unique Lich missions that have us sneaking into the Lich's stronghold(s) & acquiring the mods.

Like a Spy Mission for one, a Disruption for another, etc. (Missions where we have to seek them out & acquire them.) But the twist is that these missions are more like Arbitrations in that we get no revives, & the Lich is the empowered as we're in the Lich's Kuva stronghold.

I've been helping a friend grind Requiem mods for FAR too long & my god we can't get his last mod to drop. It's just become a job at this point. I look at Requiem fissures & just lose all motivation to even do em.

As of this posting it's been weeks since we last were on the Requiem grind. We just got burnt out farming the relics & then not getting the mods to drop. He expected challenge from the system, but he expected it from the Lich itself, not the RNG. Now he just downs it 3 times if it should ever show or just ignores it.

I understand the game needs a repetitive gameplay loop but RNG barriers behind RNG barriers just aren't the answer.

[(PSN)GAttane]

Maybe removing the punishment completely is too much. Why not have the lich retaliate with an attack that deals a sizable amount of damage but does not instakill? I feel that would be less unfair while simultaneously discouraging simply trying whatever combination.

I think it's been said somewhere in the thread before but it would be interesting to have the liches "die" temporarily, only to come back stronger in some way, to tie in to what was shown in the tennocon trailer, while having the correct combination would permanently kill the lich. It would make a lot more sense with their "i died several times already" dialogue.

As a side note, connecting them to railjack in some way would start to bring these "islands" of content together.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

16 hours ago, Hawk_of_the_Reborn said:

 

Stop making it easier. Reb, I honestly beg you to reconsider this. I'm sick of not being punished for failing in this game.

The problem with your position here is that you aren't being punished for failing with liches, you're being punished for a wrong guess that you only had a 1 in 9 chance of getting right, assuming you've farmed up all your murmurs. Worse, there's no counterplay, it's just "didn't roll the dice right? Well have a broken spine for your trouble."

Punishing a player screwup is one thing, punishing RNG not coming up in your favor is quite another.

[BeGaDaButcher]

On 2020-01-30 at 8:49 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Valence Transfer Infusion

• First introduced in 26.0.6, Valence Transfer was designed to address owning duplicate Kuva weapons with different unique innate damage bonuses. Giving you the ability to replace a Kuva weapon’s innate damage bonus (plus investments like Forma, Focus Lens etc) with one from another Kuva weapon was a good start, but we can push this even further!
  
  Valence Transfer now also boosts your Kuva weapons innate damage bonus. Examples:
• Your Kuva Kohm with 25% damage can be infused into your 40% weapon, to make it 44%

• Your Kuva Kohm with 40% damage can be infused into your 25% weapon, to make it 44%

• Your Kuva Kohm with 25% damage can be infused into your 44% weapon, to make it 48.4%

Your Kuva weapon duplicates now offer a gradual progression towards a “perfect” Kuva weapon, which would reflect a 60% damage value, if you choose to pursue this path.

 

Firstly I would like to apologize if this question has been answered before, but I am unable to search through the thread at this time.

 

What will happen to the elemental bonus's during the transfer? Are you able to only infuse weapons with the same element or does the recipient weapon's elemental type change to the sacrificial weapons type in addition to increasing the innate damage?

 

EG:

• Your Kuva Kohm with 25% RADIATION damage can be infused into your 40% CORROSIVE weapon , to make it 44% RADIATION
• Your Kuva Kohm with 40% RADIATION damage can be infused into your 25% CORROSIVE weapon, to make it 44% RADIATION
• Your Kuva Kohm with 25% RADIATION damage can be infused into your 44% CORROSIVE weapon, to make it 48.4% RADIATION

Basically I have a 48% toxin Kuva Ayanga that I love to death, but was planning to try get a higher percentage version with radiation to infuse the stats with (I have already levelled my toxin one to lvl40). Loving this new progress to 60% infusion changes but want to clarify if I can still change my existing weapons elemental type.

 

Thanks all!

[Ham_Grenabe]

1 hour ago, kyori said:

Why Anku got a Kuva version? It is not even a Grineer weapon.

Not sure that's an actual weapon, or just Pablo randomly picking it as part of his UI demo. I mean, it could be, but it's probably just that "Kuva Anku" fit well in the demo UI mockup. 

[Ulvra]

Most of the changes sound good to me, though the weapon preview feel honestly kinda lame. That the system is dumbed down to a point where it's just a weapon farm feels wrong and sad to me and this just adds to that. I know many just want to get the weapons and the associated mastery but bugger to that, I feel the feeling of the system is more important.

The other thing I'm not happy with is the removal of the forced failure. It was nice to have an enemy who could actually kick your arse and the failure made the face-off feel significant, to have that removed just kills more of the feeling. If you fail you fail and should feel it, not have a pat on the head and on we go to level +1.

[Exodess]

I would also like to take a moment to simply thank the Devs for taking a step back and holding off the changes for another week of testing. Rushing things out the door has been the source of many of last year's quality problems.

Communicating intent for content and delays is more important to me personally than getting a rushed product.

[(PSN)smb-twisted]

7 minutes ago, Ulvra said:

Most of the changes sound good to me, though the weapon preview feel honestly kinda lame. That the system is dumbed down to a point where it's just a weapon farm feels wrong and sad to me and this just adds to that. I know many just want to get the weapons and the associated mastery but bugger to that, I feel the feeling of the system is more important.

 

this is how it feels to me, a rewardless farm, playing missions for no reason other than to slowly slowly slowly work towards getting a weapon i don;t care about that i then have to rank, forma, and rerank 5 times. then i'll almost certainly never use again.

[FUBAR-BDHR]

So after grinding 108 liches with random weapons trying to get all 91 different ones now it's going to get easy for everyone else.  Feels like a big kick in the ass for all the time lost grinding.

[Amlodhi.Ilmarinen]

1 minute ago, FUBAR-BDHR said:

So after grinding 108 liches with random weapons trying to get all 91 different ones now it's going to get easy for everyone else.  Feels like a big kick in the ass for all the time lost grinding.

 

1. They indicated from the first Old Blood release that Liches would be a work in progress.
2. No part of the Lich content was a prerequisite for other parts of the game, so your participation was entirely voluntary.
3. "It was bad for me, so it should be bad for everyone" is a terrible argument.

[Emolition]

On 2020-01-29 at 10:49 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Your Kuva Lich will no longer kill you when you fail a Requiem guess, nor will they attempt to break your back. The Parazon stabbing animation will play but the UI will show whether it was a success or failure. Upon receiving a Requiem fail, your Kuva Lich will laugh at you and leave, leaving your back and dignity intact! There is no longer a failure loop here for the Requiem flow. 

This is a sad day one of the best animation in game to die to 1000% better then any random 1 shot you can't spot where it comes from.  Wish it could been opt in for the lich to allow you to be killed.

[xcrimsonlegendx]

Would prefer to see text with the name of the lich weapon over the larvaling's head rather than a big thumbnail of the weapon hovering there, or even let the NPC hold the weapon so we can see it in a more immersive fashion. Along that line of reasoning the text saying "spawn lich" is a little blunt, I don't see any reason to change it from the current text.

Oh and you might as well let the larvaling show the ephemera too, for those of us hunting them instead.

[(PSN)jpoy_a21]

As many have said here, a way for the Kuva Lich to harass us would be a nice addition. Like thralls escorting a capture target, having twice the capture rate in interceptions, forcefully triggering the alarms during spy missions, etc. That would really make them feel like our nemeses and make us want to really get rid of them.

Also, for the nth time, farming for murmurs is just too repetitive for it to be enjoyable. Why not introduce something progressively driven, a mini-quest if you will, that leads to a confrontation with our lich? A series of missions which are interrelated similar to Cetus/Fortuna bounties but happens in the whole solar system. Something like stealing information for the lich's coordinates, or ambushing their troops, or killing their trusty captains and sergeants (thralls). It wouldn't be that hard to implement. Just rename 'exterminate' to 'ambush Kuva Lich's troops', add some flair or voiced lines, and profit.

Meanwhile, my Kuva Lich is just sitting there, indifferently, in Lua waiting for me to strike first. Sure, she's got the whole moon but I rarely go there, barely doing me any harm except for the taunts I get when I log-in. I suppose she's not that angry when I struck her down when she was a larvling.

[Udoshi]

On 2020-01-29 at 2:49 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

What you can’t expect is the ‘Lich be-gone’: We have removed the prototype for this for now, because rather than not fixing the core loop and just letting a Lich be banished, we intend to focus on the core loop first. Since duplicates are now opt-in and have value for a min-maxer, there’s less of a reason to dispel a Lich. 

 

 

Most importantly, when is murmur progress becoming co-op again?

That DE/your studio's been so hugely resistant to fixing the one thing everybody had issue with - That was the one big change which made it from a fun shared experience to a huge unfun hastle in one fell swoop - 

anything you do to improve liches isn't going to be recieved well, because, well, its an uphill battle an whatever changes you make aren't going to be the one literally everyone wants.

Whichever (senior i assume!) manager at DE  who made that their hill to die on has turned it into the hill liches died on. It doesn't matter what you improve because we've had the good and fun mode turned on - and had it taken away. Your team used to be better about not sticking by an ultimately bad decision and owning the mistake, and we miss that about your team.

 

I've had a level 1 lich going on four weeks+ because I was doing a leveling run, killed a bunch of enemies with a warframe power, got an execute prompt for the parazon and didn't even see it was a larva. 

Its not worth it.

I wish a stronger attempt to confirm a player's intent to make a lich or not was implimented. An explicit post-mission confirmation (DO YOU WANT THIS LICH YES NO) or a non-standard colored parazon prompt (green, purple, anything not red!) would have been nice. As it is, i'm torn, because it feels like a failure of game design that I can just ignore my own personal villian, but at the same time, I'm one of the people who would love to pay off my lich to go away and not bother me again, so boo for no 'lich be gone?'

 

Personally, I think the biggest things that need to happen are this:
Being able to make a lich-designer or nemesis program where you can designs a custom lich and set it loose upon your friends list. Its significantly funner to make a notable nemesis and make/help your friends share in the experience, and get props/kudos for it. Community, community, community.
Convert liches into forma. Or fake forma for other kuva weapons. (kuva forma?) Its the least you can do for the kuva weapon grind.
I also think stapling parazons to lich runes was a bad idea, and should be de-coupled: just make the rune a lich-screen-only drag and drop, and introduce six-slots of parazon boosts and seed them amongst the syndicates to encourage trading like all the other augments! I like the parazon thing and wish there were more options; runes are holding it back.
Plat for 'rerolling'/spamming liches(for profit?) is probably something to be avoided, but I think a weeklong cooldown is a reasonable tradeoff to have for a feature.
Being able to swap active lich contracts needs to happen, not just converted ones, but only lich for lich.

 

Oh yeah, and the ayatan stars in requiem relics need to be replaced with the 1k-a-pop universal syndicate medallions, or at least something less bad.

[SpaceAgeBrain]

Whelp. I'm redownloading the game now after close to 3 months afk. 

Going from "Here's a cool weapon locked behind soulcrushing RNG" to "here's a cool weapon with...significant grind that still leads to you progressing" is all that it took for me to want to play Warframe again ><

[KaizergidorahXi]

Any chance for the kuva reward from not killing a lich to be higher? I realize you don't want people using it as the new kuva farm, but 100 kuva is a practically useless reward, since you'd need 9 to roll even an unrolled riven, which so far is the only use for Kuva.

[Kontrollo]

I generally like the changes -- just wanted to comment on this:

23 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Breaking Your Back for Knowledge

• Your Kuva Lich will no longer kill you when you fail a Requiem guess, nor will they attempt to break your back. The Parazon stabbing animation will play but the UI will show whether it was a success or failure. Upon receiving a Requiem fail, your Kuva Lich will laugh at you and leave, leaving your back and dignity intact! There is no longer a failure loop here for the Requiem flow. 

It's kind of funny that you'd cave on this one. Weren't these Grineer supposed to be the Big Bad, our nemeses?

I feel like after that change they'll be relegated to your usual kind of enemy: ultimately inconsequential. At least they'll still taunt us and laugh at us -- or is that next on the chopping block? Can't have anything stepping up to the genocidal super kids, after all.

 

If nothing else, it was always a good opportunity for making some dumb joke. Guess we can't have that, either. 😉

[-Temp0-]

Цитата

 

God, double the ephemera rate again? Boosting wep %?

We're just making all the changes for the cry babies I see 

 

Aka "Im salty I would no longer be able to sell trash ephemeras for 400p or that useless karak with 50-60% bonus for 2000p"

Your own tears are delicious.

[darkemplar8]

On 2020-01-29 at 2:00 PM, Godzilla853 said:

what about the 5 forma per weapon for all of the kuva weapons that seems a bit extreme when they do not get a buff like the paracesis. Maybe make them do extra damage to grineer with with each forma we put in. 

Or even add stat buffs upon each forma, up to the 5th forma, allowing the player to choose from available buffs. +5% dmg(total damage multiplier), +3% cc(additive buff to base up to +15%), +3% sc(additive buff to base up to +15%), +0.2cd(additive to base up to +1 cd multiplier, etc.

*Edit:

Or just give them cool effects after the 5th forma or something.

I'd like a reason to forma my kuva weaps besides getting all mastery affinity and "just because I can."

[Midarc]

Good direction to be heading in.

 

hope we can see those nice kill animations if the lich actually manages to kill s in an engagement.

itd be a shame to waste them