Dev Workshop - Kuva Lich Changes Coming Soon™ PART 2

[kapn655321]

 

[BDT_Flames]

On 2020-01-29 at 11:49 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Valence Transfer now also boosts your Kuva weapons innate damage bonus. Examples:

• Your Kuva Kohm with 25% damage can be infused into your 40% weapon, to make it 44%

• Your Kuva Kohm with 40% damage can be infused into your 25% weapon, to make it 44%

• Your Kuva Kohm with 25% damage can be infused into your 44% weapon, to make it 48.4%

Your Kuva weapon duplicates now offer a gradual progression towards a “perfect” Kuva weapon, which would reflect a 60% damage value, if you choose to pursue this path.

This is RNG % is very bad

Dreams dreams 😧

57-60% is around  farm from 50-100 Kuva Boss  Good Luck. I have in my codex 104

and tnx DE for remove  parazon stones with  combinations

[SnakeBadger]

On 2020-01-29 at 4:49 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

You can expect the Chance of a Lich having an Ephemera to double. 

My goal is to offer some interesting expansions to the lich system so that they are not just humanoids, they can form armies, mutate, or have robotic arms, overshields, and auras, carry many mods, and have weird looking freaky features which can mean different mods and loot types, archwing, and operator unlockables, glyphs and achievements are based on the type of monster / kuva siphon changes should be more fun and rewarding, this can mean that more broken weapons, kitguns, and reasons to visit the kuvafortress are added, with keys and music, changes to the levels which are captured, and objective bonuses,

the failiure rates are really high,

CONS & PROs / IDEAS / BRAINSTORM

• Make all kuva give temporary boosters, affinity without lenses, melee, kuva should deal unique damage types and have other powers.

encounters more rewarding without requiring a kill or completion a list of other rewards and fixes should reflect your affinity with the kuva per mission and planet, i think there can be more changes to the captured planets, visuals, soudns, animations, so the contents stolen appear in chests modified or extractors, and other helping hands, i think the ephemeral is alittle bit of a heavy emphasys, it should have just been given to the player right away on their first try without crafting requirements, But it could have a growth system and streghtened with passive traits, goals, and the foundry version as its augmented and duplicated, to change in the different lights and give some bonuses, maybe you have kuva music for combat or something interesting on transferense in / out, while with kuva or while fighting other kuvas, the chances are higher at other non - traditional loot for the operators to get special accesores, weapon aughments, mods, and unlockables, am thinking added robotics, and kit-guns, or parts for excavators and machine will open a world for liches to be hunted or purpuse, if they have keys to some machines to start up bounties, and summon larger badguys or call up a shipment of heavy weapons, crates, keys, and locked boxes in which a few tenno or resources have been contained or frozen like the other missions might be more exciting than just killing a larvae, and summoning a leech, its parasites and infested pathogens, and unique states of mind are too singular forming a regular follower with vulnerabilities which can be destroyed, so its fair to see robots and other types of leech or sub creatures gain these types of upgrades, modes, and mods before they are turned into a monster, boss or lich.

Those are the realistic posibilities which open up schools and focus / polarities and mod benchers to investigate and travel to each planet for things to unlock for their operators and syndicates know a few men can help, so the players are given rations, operatives and bodyguard to help with the lich procedure, mean while the larvae have expanded across other mission types, nodes, and openworld bounties, or not, they could just be fishing and minning but have robots and other aquisitive loot, or treasure they have managed to gain standing in their shadow clans, that instead of weapons players can get notes and lore, and learn some new attacks, but a few melee fighters have stances improved by facing different types of enemies, paths, and focuses added to their quests logs to keep bounties moving, each should house some dark items, keys, unshockable for the operators, weapons, and archwing.

LOOT AND LEECH CHANGES:

• glyphs, or mutants, noxes, even if u cant kill it, you get a few mods, and archwing parts, broken keys, relics, and parazon upgrades, and focus points or syndicate upgrades.
• lenses deal additional damage and build charges that can be released during slide attack, reload, and jump attacks like the magic "Ruin" from final fantasy games for blocking and ducking, burst exodia i think does something simuar can be added to kuva cannons, and passive traits for operators and warframes later.
• its important that kuva are allowed to see archwing and heavy weapons, i think kuva have low shields, and the egg babies can also become enlightened.
• smaller lich / mini lich, infested or mutated liches,
•  robot lich with metallic limbs or larvae are a few examples that can mean there is a sahagin or a archwing or rocket launcher boss in the plains with many shields and supplies,
• a spider lich idea came to me when watching the Leprechauns in space movie.

Playlist and music for the kuva start chart, territory nodes bonus loot revelent to planet, aughments, focus branches, syndicate escorts, and treasure include spectre in combat, and other help, or at least some options,

• so far the loot and lich process is long and painful with the guns and ephemeral out of the picture is seems sou-less to require farming runes, and boats with two open worlds, open a relic with REALLY BAD REWARDS, bad mission rewards, bad drops, bad loot, regular enemies, repetitive siphons, void traces spent, high chances at failing and no guarantees,

the murmurs i really like, but the

archwing rewards, ship and orbiter components and heavy weapons are greater higher end rewards for high level players, so maybe taht vandal weapons or amps be added for these fights, and proccess, if helping a syndicate who' have lich issues rewards you with a new set of modified ability for your operator guaranteed, that you get a path open

during the kuva process, each syndicate will open up focus schools and arms to the operator outside of reguar RANKS your operator should gain a few new melee attacks, movements, and abilities to use, beyond teh amps and crafting, we need to make sure taht the focus schools and lense system is enhanced and simplified for new players, so kuva fights, sipons and lichis not jsut scary thing to do,

[Ailith]

On 2020-01-29 at 5:03 PM, LuckyCharm said:

Hmm, its still. No from me. The grinding for rng based cards over and over from the relics already has soured it for me, and its still grind, on grind, on grind. Im not seeing anything to fix that part that has me and probably a lot of others turned off

Same here. These are all very welcome changes, but unless they start adding some very unique/powerful items as rewards, it's still not worth the grind.

[-Temp0-]

1 час назад, Ailith сказал:

Same here. These are all very welcome changes, but unless they start adding some very unique/powerful items as rewards, it's still not worth the grind.

Theres no reason to ask for "powerful items" because they will get nerfed into oblivion within months. Especially weapons.

Weapons in warframes are currently all but useless unless you do very specific things like Index or Eidolon.

[Graavarg]

Thanks!

REALLY GREAT changes, all this will put liches in a stable spot from where they can develop and grow. Maybe liches can even have a "second coming" at some point, where they are allowed to become a real personal nemesis. That idea was and still is great, but as the "lich discussions" has shown the "community" wasn't really ready for it. Now that we have baby liches in place (to satisfy everyone) there might be a possibility for some real nasty ones.

Just wish it was this easy to fix the toxic "want everything served easy and now"-crowd complaining about everything. As an example, the total ridiculousness of first getting access to multiple selectable and powerful rank 40 weapons, that are completely optional to get, and then using this new possibility to demand that the weapons should be free to upgrade because it is "too hard" to grind 5 forma together just blows my mind. And forma is something you can even buy. Seriously...

Since it seems (from the examples) that Valence Fusion now works regardless of which weapon is the "first", is the idea that the status ending up on the "valenced" weapon is determined by the order. If not, this would be an easy way for allowing players to select which of the two status effects that ends up on the new weapon. Forma level, slots and polarities comes from the "higher" one and status percentage is now a mathematical function. If the status would be determined by the "second" weapon (or the "first", doesn't matter) players would hold all the necessary cards for fixing/maximizing their weapon. Such a system would then also work for changing the status on an already maxed-out 60% status, as "valencing" the maxed weapon with another would keep level, slots and polarities but switch status according to a "last weapon in"-rule. Or "first in", doesn't matter as long as the player can determine the final status by choosing in which the order the weapons are "valenced" together.

[DaLegends]

On 2020-01-30 at 6:00 AM, Godzilla853 said:

what about the 5 forma per weapon for all of the kuva weapons that seems a bit extreme when they do not get a buff like the paracesis. Maybe make them do extra damage to grineer with with each forma we put in. 

Agreed, the number of thralls to be killed is still way too much. Perhaps lowering the amount needed, adding "special thralls" that carry intel (which could be entire murmurs or just small pieces) like the way "worms" are interrogated in Shadow of War, to give weaknesses of the commanders. Or even having pickups in mission to give extra murmurs. 

[Ham_Grenabe]

4 hours ago, DaLegends said:

Agreed, the number of thralls to be killed is still way too much. Perhaps lowering the amount needed, adding "special thralls" that carry intel (which could be entire murmurs or just small pieces) like the way "worms" are interrogated in Shadow of War, to give weaknesses of the commanders. Or even having pickups in mission to give extra murmurs. 

That grind is the biggest remaining issue: it still takes something like 180 murmurs to get it done and there's still the roulette wheel part.

I'm all about halving the number of murmurs and putting some mystery into it - connect intel to the stanzas on the requiem mods or something.

Let us puzzle it out to the right order (in fact, make us get the right order before we can even try -- have the lich slap away our pitiful mercy attempt if we don't know it, and laugh in our faces). 

[(PSN)DidelphisV]

12 hours ago, Ailith said:

Same here. These are all very welcome changes, but unless they start adding some very unique/powerful items as rewards, it's still not worth the grind.

One of the new Kuva weapons coming next update is a Kulstar/Lenz hybrid. A bow the fires an explosive arrow and clusters out for even more AoE damage. From what they showed unmodded, it was pretty powerful. If that ‘ain’t worth grinding for, I don’t know what is haha

[Steeldragonz]

as someone that did 37 liches to get all the weapons, and ended up with 1 ephemeral, this is pointless to me... just thought i would say that. Because of how you do these things, even the tons of dupes i had are wasted now. but whatever, i will only ever do this system again to get new weapons, and i will probably do it in a way upsets people knowing my luck.

[dimerapis]

I have seen reports of inexperienced players using Parazon against Kuva Larvling and fighting undesired.
The current Kuva Lich trigger is included in the normal mission.
Can DE spawn Kuva Larvling through quests or NPC's talk?
The game needs to explain Kuva Lich to the players and give them time and choice.
And need the option to abandon the fight for exhausted players.

[(PSN)IndianChiefJeff]

Let me pitch an idea that would add just a little bit more sentimental value into the whole Lich system: Converted Companions. As they are now in the current environment, converted Liches only serve two purposes. They either occasionally spawn in a mission & assist you for a limited period of time, or they're traded away & treated like cannon fodder. Adding them as companions, you would grant the player the opportunity to have an ally with firepower that rivals your own. What makes them particularly interesting as a companion option would be the range of customization: from being able to adjust their weapons, abilities, armor, overall appearance, personality & being able to change their name if it were to go that far. If the system were to be implemented, it would be applicable to any & all faction "Liches", granting us a variety of options similar to the beast & robots we currently have.

[Spoop3]

Something that part 3 of this workshop needs to address imo is more connection. There needs to be a more passive approaches to the Kuva lich alongside thrall farming. 

 

Why doesn’t our lich dare to appear outside of lich nodes and why can’t they send thrall assassination squads like every single syndicate does?

 

railjack integration might give another avenue to deal with liches But imo they need to be more of an active threat. As it is now you can just step over the big red territory line and the lich will never even touch you.  

[tulukaruk]

i'll shamelessly repost from old closed topic:

Why not making the KUVA lich system connected to KUVA? Make it that it's only in Kuva Fortress. Possibly with Larva spawning in Kuva Survival only. And add 3rd option for defeated Lich - Syphon Kuva - to make it a way of farming kuva outside of normal Kuva missions. This would possibly solve 3 things - newbies starting Lich without knowing the difficulty, lack of players doing the Lich nodes (as all would do it on Kuva Fortress) and a reason to do Lich other then weapon. At top of that it would make sense that the Kuva Lich would be there and have an high level greneer army. Lore wise that would make much more sense. 

•  

[Ham_Grenabe]

Oh, and you'll have these changes live by 9:00 a.m. Eastern tomorrow, right? Tick tock tick tock. 😄

[Pana-bot]

I feel like the back breaking is not a deterrent to the experience but an add on to the lore and growth of the Lich themselves, as it makes sense for them to become stronger and stronger by being able to kill you however many times they manage to do so instead of just mocking you for not killing them and somehow becoming stronger, also to point out that liches are supposed to be The Frame killers, they were supposed to be the absolute enemy of frames, and now you say you don't want to be killed by the ones made to do so. From a gameplay perspective, this also removes consequence from our actions, making the fight lose the stakes it used to have. as they are before this update, when you have all 3 mods, but don't know the order, you feel tension before the fight and during it, you feel exactly how a being made to kill you would make you feel, like there is an actual consequence to failing to get the sequence right. Now it might just be easier to brute force the sequence instead of farming the murmurs and actually playing as it was intended to, since you lose nothing by brute forcing it, but you lose your time by actually sticking with how it would be done in game, taking the information from the thralls and slowly learning what will kill your Lich.

[Ham_Grenabe]

I'd say there's two sides to that. Personally, I don't experience any tension about a failed sequence. If I get it right, yay, but if I get it wrong, it's like "Wait for the cutscene, spend 1 revive."

There's no set up ahead of time that makes the lich a real enemy, so you - or at least I - don't feel much win or lose. The current mechanic doesn't do anything to make the Lich an enemy that pisses you off. It's just a Grustrag One visiting with a couple one-liners. 

Tl;dr - losing a revive isn't really very high stakes. If you failed the mission for failing a sequence, or the lich stole one of your equipped weapons or something -- that's different. 

[(PSN)thorfinn01]

13 liches down and:

I kind of like the Larvling option it's the small ray of hope in this primary addition of new grind on top of the old grind, so:

Larvling: Addition of grind
Lich : Same amount of boring grind, but possibly less often due to larvling choices.
Valance Tsfr: Insane amounts of extra boring grind for minimal results.
Kuva Weapons: Same amount of boring grind for minuscule result. Effectively maxing out 6 full weapons for the gain of 1000MR points.
Wasting Forma: Average 3 forma to max out mod capacity on a weapon that's not competitive in the first place. I'd rather just have somewhere to swap excess forma for 200MR Each thanks.
Requiem Mods: I can not believe you were even remotely serious about adding in an Ayatan Amber Star. 100 void traces for an Ayatan Star! That is just INSULTING.
Lets do some math on that. Assuming a relic capture mission (absolute hands down fastest there is), average time 2:30s. We'll be generous and say an average of 12 void traces per mission. 100 void traces will take 9 runs, so with loading and all we'll again be generous and say 30 min. 15 to 20 minutes to run the requiem relic (there is no speed run option) and I've just wasted the better part of an hour to get an Amber Star. To put my frustration in context: I have been 'rewarded' with more amber stars than I have mods.

Finally, Being able to transmute empty mods is mildly sanity restoring. Also it seems that the Murmers are dropping more relics recently so that is cutting out some of the grind.

I think you need to realize that the addition of grind for grinds sake is not, in any way shape or form, content.

Thanks for your time.

[Pana-bot]

The punishments you're proposing seem too harsh, I'm gonna speak mainly on losing your weapon, say , you're a more casual player, you have your single, high power gun, you play alone, you miss the sequence, your only weapon gets taken...what now?

You end up with no means of actually dealing with the lich, and sure this maybe isn't a very general issue but nevertheless will affect someone in a negative way.

3 hours ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

I'd say there's two sides to that. Personally, I don't experience any tension about a failed sequence. If I get it right, yay, but if I get it wrong, it's like "Wait for the cutscene, spend 1 revive."

There's no set up ahead of time that makes the lich a real enemy, so you - or at least I - don't feel much win or lose. The current mechanic doesn't do anything to make the Lich an enemy that pisses you off. It's just a Grustrag One visiting with a couple one-liners. 

Tl;dr - losing a revive isn't really very high stakes. If you failed the mission for failing a sequence, or the lich stole one of your equipped weapons or something -- that's different. 

 

[zuraja]

14 hours ago, (PS4)DidelphisV said:

One of the new Kuva weapons coming next update is a Kulstar/Lenz hybrid. A bow the fires an explosive arrow and clusters out for even more AoE damage. From what they showed unmodded, it was pretty powerful. If that ‘ain’t worth grinding for, I don’t know what is haha

While it looks powerful, the number of self-inflicted deaths that would have happened if not for devmode tells me that it's going to be ridiculously impractical.

[Gehirnspaghetti]

Zitat

Valence Transfer Infusion

• First introduced in 26.0.6, Valence Transfer was designed to address owning duplicate Kuva weapons with different unique innate damage bonuses. Giving you the ability to replace a Kuva weapon’s innate damage bonus (plus investments like Forma, Focus Lens etc) with one from another Kuva weapon was a good start, but we can push this even further!
  
  Valence Transfer now also boosts your Kuva weapons innate damage bonus. Examples:
• Your Kuva Kohm with 25% damage can be infused into your 40% weapon, to make it 44%

• Your Kuva Kohm with 40% damage can be infused into your 25% weapon, to make it 44%

• Your Kuva Kohm with 25% damage can be infused into your 44% weapon, to make it 48.4%

Your Kuva weapon duplicates now offer a gradual progression towards a “perfect” Kuva weapon, which would reflect a 60% damage value, if you choose to pursue this path.

In Devstream #137 we saw a version of this at work. I just wanna point out that there the actual elements combined at the end and I think (since the element the weapon is spawned with is deterministic) this MIGHT be a good addition though it would be even better if players could choose whether to combine elements or keep the one that we are fusing into.

[Ikusias]

Kuva lich gameplay is not engaging:

- murmurs grind is stupidly monotonous and "isolated" - no dinamic missions, no alternative sources of information, nothing

- kuva lich birth: we stomp a worm and bam superpowered enemy that sudenly occupies most of the starchart - stupid and boring

- Kuva lich removal: failing parazon combo on lich earns you a bed place right beside batman after bane was done with him... why if our lich was on the ground vomiting blood and vishera? just let us murder it and have it then resuscitate like we do with warframes - that is an immortal, not a cheater that ignores the rules of the fragging game (DE finally caved in after player outrage and changed this hooray! Good sense won over stupidity)

- kuva weapons: blergh sidegrades at best, ofthen result in worse versions of parent weapon, tonkor and ogris in particular, parent weapon are also  bottom tier to start with

- negative player experience: hours of poor gamplay with high potential of 0 payoff if: you get a weapon you already have, or  a worse version. (mitigated by new tke on valence transfer, but hwat happens after you collected and maxed all available weapons?)

After much debate I caved in and did my first lich, seeing as I had nothing better to do...

What a freaking slog!

It was the most boring experience in Warframe I ever had, even worse than farming Ivara trough spy vaults (that at least can be speed run) or getting all of Equinox parts from Til Regor.

And for what? minimum elemental bonus weapon! At least is one of the new ones but still what crap!

If even the weapon is a duplicate or a worse version of a possessed version, the current Nemesis system offfers absolutely no return for time invested!

 

> Murmur farming:

Is frankly quuite boring  you just slog through the usual missions with the only objective of downing the 4-5 or so thralls that spawn among the regular troops... that's it, the actual objective of the mission is completely irrelevant...

Enemies are higher in level so there's a reason to use decent builds and weapons but still there's no payback, you get the usual drops of the node (stolen by the lich) and reduce it influence on the planet only for it taking root somewere else in the solar system... (more about that in the enxt section)

Some missions suffer from poor compatibility with thrall hunting due to objective constraints:

- hijack due to the need of babysitting the target, severely limiting freedom of movement, at least enemies come to you...

- spy vaults become impredictable with your Lich potentially spawning inside during hacking and raising the alarm

- defense/mobile defense: lich can potentially obliterate defense objectives during the fight turning mission failure into a russian roulette

- all "endless" missions are constrained to a single "rotation" duration with a limited number of thralls to "interrogate"

- lich controlled nodes are ghost towns, it's improbable to find other players with lich territories overlapping on yours to share missions with, resulting ofthen in a solo farm again in a multiplayer game

Actual mission objectives are irrelevant to narrative! Only consequence of doing murmur missions is removing lich influence on node ina purely mechanical way.

- Capture mission: hunt the target, collaterally take down any thrall that spawns, hope the lich doesn't interfere when capturing your target... the assigned capture target isn't even a thrall or in ant way connected to the lich! I was on Jupiter and I got a corpus target on a grineer controlled tile (ok what??)! Why isn't the target itself a source of informations/murmurs?!

- Spy mission: crack the vaults, no effect on murmur advancement, risk of lich spawn and automatic fail.

- Survival: you are there as a diversion... no contest to fighting the lich, just doing the usual boring mission, with a single "rotation" of duration, so no infinite murmur farming.

- Defense: one rotation and you leave, actually defending the objective has no effect on murmurs, thralls are just there... and, again, you can stay only a single rotation of 5 waves

 (also a critique to defense missions in general: what the heck happens to the target after we leave? it would be cool seeing the next team coming in to replace us or a recovery crew actually hauling the target away!)

- etc...

 

> Kuva lich "birth/ascent" feels really too "random"

Due to the various fixes we don't risk anymore accidentally giving rise to a Lich, still a mere nobody being given the chance to become suddenly "more" feels substantially "wrong". Liches start as some no name weakling, "die" and suddenly return with troops, equipment and resources that would make Sargas Rhuk green with envy... this sudden power growth makes no sense bestowed on a mere "mob"

>Justified apparently by the "experimental" nature of the entire entreprise for the Worm Queen - from time to time instead of getting a larvling spawn the kuva guardians report in game that the subject was "non viable" and degraded too much to be of use<

Still I'd rather have a ranked grineer with at least a number as a name, as origin for a lich - a unit or multiple units appearing in kuva related missions as part of the garrison, as some kind of miniboss.

 

>Star map grab and control

Lich influence spreads absurdly fast! We  doneed those occupied nodes for thral grinding with how the current system works, but what if it wasn't the case anymore?

Current rate of expansion is completely unbelievable and too sudden, conflicting with both established canon and believability (were the Hek did the grineer suddenly pull out all that manpower, ships and resources without our prior knowledge they were ammassing all that military might!?) with Kuva Lich leveling actually jumpstarting even faster and unexplained territory grabbing...

Turning territorial Lich expansion in actual frequent invasion missions would be a lot more believable and make use of what's already ingame without straining suspension of disbelief to the breaking point like the system currently does.

- It would give us actual agency in controlling/mitigating how far and how fast lich influence encroaches in the Origin System while mantaining a much more believable rate of propagation: the more we engage in disrupting invasion missions, the slower our Lich encroachment on the star map.

- Thrall hunt would have an actual contestualization as we would be "de facto" headhunting the lich lieutenants,directly derailing its invasion efforts.

- Actual improvement ad contestualization of conflict mechanics with our lich as, the more we derail its plans, the more motivated to hunt us down, through proxies or personally, it would beecome, much like Alad V and Vay Hek send assassins after hour hides for interfering too much during invasions!

- Routine missions outside of Lich influence could get random additional objectives depending on Lich threath rating/attention on us: like being informed during an exterminate or other mission that an alliy has been captured by lich forces and needs immediate recue, or  the enemy ship the squad boarded has been rigged for selfdestruction in a reverse sabotage in which we attempt to prevent the reactor from going critical.

- Invasion missions could get a "final" mission in wich we actually eliminate the lich second in command detailed to that particular invasion expedition, substantially raising our lich attention towards us: if it could afford to ignore us as a minor setback, after something like losing trusted lieutenants happening multiple times we become a priority threat, all through actual player interaction with the game!

- An actual mission node hosting our lich operative base for us to discover, through research or happenstance (like being captured by lich troops).

- It will tie-in easily with wathever the nature of Empyrean will be, including launching preemptive attacks on lich forces to postpone or completely derail ongoing planetary landings.

 

> Investigating kuva lich requiem is boring, repetitive and feels "disconnected" from regular starchart

Connecting to what I discussed about changing liches territorial expansions, DE needs to give us alternative ways to accumulate murmurs or better  actual hints.

- Parazon mods have nice pieces of prose that feel totally wasted with their lack of use, would be interesting to somehow integrate those in the process of unlocking the proper requiem!

- Fighting our lich before the final showdown needs to feel more involved and "personal" in revealing the right requiem and entwining our path with theirs:

<> removal of instant defeat when trying requiem rune combinations unless none of the mods equipped is right /no mods equipped at all, in that case we fail the mission and lose transference to the defeated frame, with our lich evolving using its parts, this would be offset by being able to exclude 3 mods from the puzzle in a single mission and still be a very rare occurrence that helps establishing the lich as an actual threat for us personally. (obviously our downed frame wil be given "replaced" by the lotus/ordis wathever via email after being rebuilt, or we could choose to partecipate in a mission to recover it)

It feels cheap otherwise being killed by pure RNG and conflicts with the lore of tenno as unstoppable killers, enders of the orokin Empire etc.

<> Defeating the lich with an incomplete requiem could make it immune to it but still let us down it, for a time, with it reviving again and again (just like we do) and hounding and taunting us relentlessly for the entire mission, deliberately going after our target and trying to prevent us from accomplishing it,  until we complete our objective its interference make us actually fail or to flee, this would impress how these new enemies  are different than usual, that we can't trivially get rid of them nor that  we can afford to ignore them without repercussions. (more interesting and challenging thatn the Lich simply fleeing as currently planned)

<> Spy vaults in lich territory could offer information on requiem or give us information on the lich movements, in order to prevent incoming invasions or get informations on resourche depots, sensible targets to hit to cripple our enemy military effort, leading into cascading missions dedicated to raiding the lich treasure ships or storage depots, for profit or pure vandalism! Sabotaging a ship to suffer a catastrophic reactor meltdown or vent it's atmosphere and survive until we completely ransack its hold? (kuva in drops?)

<> Capture missions focus on our kuva lich lieutenants in an attempt to gather more information on its abilities and weaknesses (that would very much make more snse to be initially completely unkown) and its main base "lair" actual location;

<> Defection missions would become their actual namesake, with rescued defectors contributing information to the player;

<> Option to buy information for reputation or favours (missions) from our allied syndacates, Maroo and Symaris, with hostile syndacates actively working to thwart us in our efforts ( we really need more interaction and conflict with syndacates as well, this system is completely frozen and unchanged since its introduction)

 

> General improvements

--  Lich-related missions could change dynamically or add objective/s on the fly for more variability and unpredictability (like sometimes happened in regular missions with capture missions becoming exterminate etc the coding is already in place even if I havent seen it happening in mission in a while now): doing spy vaults we could  find the last one purged with a thrall on the run with the info we need - capture missions could be traps, turning into  survival, defense or exterminate, and so on. This would keep us on our toes and maybe encourage generalist builds and frames over meta due to needing adaptability if a mission goes off the rails...

At the same time every Lich mission could start behaving like a mini procedural assault mission, it would be damn interesting!

-- defeat in Lich-related missions should have consequences, like losing part of our progress in stopping an onging invasion in that sector, opening a new invasion! Getting our frame captured and locking it in an escape mission like the Zanuka Hunter one - "actual" defeat (instead of scripted one) needs to be interesting as a narrative chance instead of being reduced to a purely binary win/fail switch.

This way losing a mission should be as desiderable, to player's enjoiment, as winning.

-- increasing enemy pressure tied with our progression in investigating our lich requiem, ramping up every time we test an improved combination successfully on the lich itself: 1 correct mod in the sequence, 2, 3 + 1or 2 mods in the right place, with maximum level of conflict when requiem is discovered and the enemies hunt the player relentlessly before he gets access to the Lich base for the final showdown.

-- need to find and breach our Lich main base to actually access the final shodown after an assault like mission! with the lich not permanently killable in other missions.

   This would permit to set the stage with better scripting for boss fights

-- better srcipting for Lich in combat, use of abilities is damn random and ability set has no correspondence to parent frame

-- actual returns from defeating our lich besides weapon and ephemera to keep interest in the system

-- choice between murdering or converting our lich should net us the same immediate benefits, making the actual choice purely "moral" and reflecting on our "aligment" that's been neglected since "The War Within"

-- instead of getting converted liches to pop randomply in mission and being ineffective at it to boot, gave us their "specter" as tradable blueprint and/or reusable beacon, so we can choose to use it or not;

-- we kill our lich we get choice of two out built weapon, built ephemera, blueprint of their "specter"

-- we convert it we get choice of two out of  reusable "specter beacon" and its blueprint, blueprint of weapon, blueprint of ephemera

 

Everything I've outlined takes advantage of existing game mechanics and reuse existing assets in new ways, it would only need the necessary coding to tie mission cascades together in a campaign against the lich

[spicyframe420]

On 2020-02-01 at 5:12 PM, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

There’s already a tutorial box in the screen where your Kuva Lich is present that offers an explanation of most of the Lich stuff.

Is there ? I haven't noticed it. 

[Grey_Star_Rival_Defender]

23 minutes ago, spicyframe420 said:

Is there ? I haven't noticed it. 

Kuva Lich screen, bottom right corner, TUTORIAL in all caps I think.

[-DG-ShadowPrime]

2 hours ago, Ikusias said:

 

Fix your text