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Dev Workshop - Kuva Lich Changes Coming Soon™ PART 2


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Pretty disappointed with the news about lich cancellation. I picked one up by accident (didn't know what to look out for) at MR 7, and I definitely don't have the power to work towards defeating one. I've just been avoiding Eris - and the associated quests - in hopes that the banish system would be implemented soon. 

It's great that you're making the system more fun! But I don't know what to do now. 😅

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46 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Valence Transfer Infusion

  • First introduced in 26.0.6, Valence Transfer was designed to address owning duplicate Kuva weapons with different unique innate damage bonuses. Giving you the ability to replace a Kuva weapon’s innate damage bonus (plus investments like Forma, Focus Lens etc) with one from another Kuva weapon was a good start, but we can push this even further!

    Valence Transfer now also boosts your Kuva weapons innate damage bonus. Examples:
  • Your Kuva Kohm with 25% damage can be infused into your 40% weapon, to make it 44%
  • Your Kuva Kohm with 40% damage can be infused into your 25% weapon, to make it 44%
  • Your Kuva Kohm with 25% damage can be infused into your 44% weapon, to make it 48.4%

Your Kuva weapon duplicates now offer a gradual progression towards a “perfect” Kuva weapon, which would reflect a 60% damage value, if you choose to pursue this path.

lmaoooo pso2 just solved it's weapon element grind problem like a year ago:

https://www.bumped.org/psublog/pso2-jp-extended-maintenance-and-patch-04-24-2019/

elementalpercentssolved.png

By just making everything that we still had to grind out extra drops for just.... drop at max element on the first drop...

 

normally I don't go pointing things out but seeing yall basically say you're implementing the elemental grinding system that I thought I was finally done with forever in another game made me laugh really hard

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So basically the TLDR is that on the 100000000th Wednesday you announce something that ISN'T coming this week...

Gotcha

Same old , same old, just a different year 🤣🤣🤣

I see the 2019 trendy is carrying over to 2020 in regard of such things xd

Edited by arm4geddon-117
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6 minutes ago, slotschii said:

Did you play plague star? Yes? Then you should have some forma by now. 

How does that have anything to do with the fact that the 5 forma sink is artificially invented without a single value for the investment? Are you happy cramming nearly 75 forma into 15 random weapons? Yes? Go nuts! Forma each one of them by 5 additional ones.

What is justifying the forma requirement and the time invested into maxing these weapons? 1000 exp per weapon? I respect DE and their work too much to continue elaborating on this point. I simply cannot find anything to counteract the negative impact this approach/system brought on the balance of investment (time, resources, money) and the reward, as compared to any other WF weapon.

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1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Upon receiving a Requiem fail, your Kuva Lich will laugh at you and leave, leaving your back and dignity intact!

Seriously? I mean, no longer dying all the time is cool, but this is just goofy. I thought we'd kill them but they just keep coming back, like a lich.

That being said, I really like the new Valence Transfer system!

Edited by (XB1)Erudite Prime
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54 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Other Changes you can expect:

  • You can expect the Chance of a Lich having an Ephemera to double. 

Again?

It was 5% on release and it's going to be 20%? 

The "Content is best played at least 3 months after release" meme continues.

Y'all need to start getting droprates right on release. It matters more than the content being buggy.

Considering how consistently this has been a thing for the past 2 years it has to be said, that you should be able to avoid this by doing some basic math on what the timeframe is.

54 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:
  • Valence Transfer now also boosts your Kuva weapons innate damage bonus. Examples:
  • Your Kuva Kohm with 25% damage can be infused into your 40% weapon, to make it 44%
  • Your Kuva Kohm with 40% damage can be infused into your 25% weapon, to make it 44%
  • Your Kuva Kohm with 25% damage can be infused into your 44% weapon, to make it 48.4%

So highestValue x 1.1 = newValue?

Does that mean:
"Your Kuva Kohm with 25% damage can be infused into your 55% weapon, to make it 60%"
Is also true?

It would be nice if you would just say it becomes the highest value +10%.

Edited by Senguash
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I hope to see the Kuva Lich system receive some serious improvements, I know I and many others want this system to be fun and not a slog - but it'd be nice to see more interactions and dynamics to your relationship with a Kuva lich.

Several examples being off the top of my head is:

  • Your Kuva Lich might actually be guarding one of the Spy missions you're infiltrating, hoping to detect you and thwart your efforts early.
     
  • Your Kuva Lich ends up in a precarious situation that benefits you both - say a rare and/or powerful Orokin artifact needs to be protected (Defense) and you're both faced up against the Infested - a faction both of you would agree that the solar system can do without them, making a temporary truce; and as a consequence, the Lich that stole-- er, "Taxed" your earnings from operating in their territory, would relinquish a fraction or the entirety of the loot they stole from you.
     
  • Your Lich meets with you on several different scenarios, whether you work together or pit against each other, they start to develop a distinct perspective or set of perspectives about you, themselves, the solar system they reside in and all that takes place in it. Which could result in:
     
    • Your Kuva Lich, while still your enemy, may end up confiding something personal or a secret to you, whether that be of a benefit or a detriment.
    • Your Kuva Lich makes more frequent attempts to talk with you, with unique dialogue.
    • Your Kuva Lich might come by to help you if your health reaches a certain threshold and attempt to assist/deliver the final blow to whomever weakened you, but will likely turn on you once the threat has been abated.
    • Exceptionally rare chance the Kuva Lich might concede and ask if they can join you in your adventure.

There being more examples people could throw in, but it be nice to see these or something like these, and more.

Rather than... an obstacle.


 

 

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26 minutes ago, (NSW)Tasted said:

Weapon preview: great idea, but having it pop up over Larvling looks... lazy? I'd love to see it more subtle, maybe as weapon the Larvling is using.

I'm all in for Valence Infusion too.

I'd leave the Liches killing you though. I find the Liches performing Finishers on you one of the coolest things. It's one thing that makes me feel personal about them.

I guess they want to make it much easier for people to tell exaclty what weapon it will be rather than haveing us standing there trying to figure out what the weapon is in their hands if they are really close to a wall or something.  It does look pretty bad but they might be trying to get it out sooner before they get it to touch up to look better.  Like how we got vitus essence intially with no special icon apart from a recolor but now we have a new model a few weeks later.

 

12 minutes ago, JaycemeSwain said:

This feels like it'll be abused heavily, like people just killing larvlings for easy kuva(esp since people generally do captures to get the larvling). Would make more sense if you got the kuva for accepting the weapon then finishing the mission.

I don't think so.  We have so many other ways to get Kuva now that the 100 or so we got from a larving won't really be worth it.  Not with nightwave, arbitration, kuva survial, kuva disruption, kuva flood, kuva siphon.

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This all sounds really good. Going through in depth here.

 

ETA: Thank you. I would much rather wait a week to have the most painful bugs ironed out and progression issues finalized than have it a week early and play the guessing game of "what's intended, what's broken, and should I bank on exploiting whatever is broken now to get progress in case it gets nerfed or made less fun later". Not much else to say but please also do this in the future.

Kuva Larvling: All good; this helps a lot if I want, say, a Kuva Tonkor and now can just roll Larvlings for one instead of slogging through 3 hour Lich hunts or forced into trading. The minor Kuva gain is also nice as a smol consolation prize while farming for that. Only other thing I can think of to improve this (if it isn't in already!) is that the weapon pop up appears 2-3 seconds before you can stab the Larvling and the weapon pop up is always visible without being in stab range: this way a player can see if the Larvling has the weapon they want as soon as they down it, and means the player won't accidentally knife their way into a Lich while the weapon pop up appears.

Back breaking: Thank you. I know gameplay wise this isn't a big deal; the Lich shattering your spine is effectively just a 5 second frozen cutscene and -10% current affinity. But this is a huge feel change, as now it will actually be the Lich surviving the wound instead of the Lich murdering you for guessing wrong.

Valence Transfer: Again, thank you. This is more for minmaxers who want a perfect Kuva Seer or Chakkur, but still amazing. It also means a 50% or 55% or 60% Kuva weapon still has trade value (since you bypass the grind!) but it gives a method for any normal player to grind up their own 'perfect' roll. It also means getting a duplicate that isn't a great roll won't be depressing, which is nice.

These all just look amazing. I'm going to remain somewhat skeptical given your track record with these kinds of things, but assuming this is what it says on the tin it would get me to actually do Liches again.

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37 minutes ago, Gaikki said:

Wh-what? So I don't get punished for guessing wrong? Where's the frustration and fun in that? 

You preferred the annoyance of being killed by RNG? Not dying from lack of skill or making a real mistake. Dying from not selecting the proper order for 3 of 8 mods. Making them threatening as enemies, and having a death against them be infuriating because you played the encounter wrong is far more better than being infuriated because you've been grinding murmurs for 2 hours and then need to spawn the lich a few times to get the order right, which is likely to be 2-3 deaths you can't escape from.

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I especially like the revised valence transfer mechanic because it's a positive response from DE to all of us players saying "We are telling you, us, right now, telling you that if you give us deterministic grind we will GRIND IT. WE WILL GRIND IT SO HARD."  

Thank you for believing us when we say that. 

Edited by Ham_Grenabe
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8 minutes ago, Kingsmount said:

They really do NOT need to do more damage, wtf.

They already one shot you on most frames.  Even Wisp with her buff sometimes.  

 

Ffs it already feels like were nearly forced to only play tanks with meta weapons as it stands.

The damage buff is for Converted (allied) Liches

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51 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

Very good and necessary improvements for the core lich loop, we will have to wait for their integration into their game so they arent just a very distant island.

An improvement sure but still RNG, when the initial goal for ephemeras wanted to have them achievement based.

Also:

Currently killing thralls outside of your own lich nodes does not give you lich aggro, which makes Lich hunting with friends a lot slower. Can we get that changed so liches get angrier outside their own nodes and can also show up?

Two good points, I would certainly prefer ephemeras to be achievement/challenge based.

On the latter...  It's an important point. Becasue the current system activly discourages players from playing with friends.  It just makes it take so much longer to progress a lich.

These are welcome changes as after about 40 Lich killed within the first month, I was still mission 2 weapons, only saw 1 ephemera and just felt burnt out with the whole game.

These changes are a step in the right direction, but I'd still hoped for more fundamental changes to make the system more fun/engaging. Although I really appreciate a lot of the drustrations being removed.

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Please, DE - take all the time you need to work out as many kinks and bugs in the next content as much as possible!

We'd like for this to work smoothly with as little hitchs to fix and patch later on as possible.

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The changes are very nice except the part of Lich not longer killing the player on wrong guess, like, seriously? One out of four to six lives the player has, why does it even matter if you die in a mission when failing to kill your Lich. Weren't liches supposed to be a "nemesis" thing? nope, gotta carebear it further and make it just a grindy mechanic with no actual sense of "threat" yep, lets dumb down everything because you listen to the worst part of the community, the part that is reason the game doesn't have actual challenge or endgame because if a player dies to something, then it is deemed too hard! because only the newbie/casual player experience matters.

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I like the changes to valence transfer, especially since I've had several trash weapons just sitting in my Foundry unclaimed. I'm guessing the weapon being infused is the one that keeps the elemental status type?

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Sounds interesting. Now what I would like to see it to put liches and their missions in context. Because murmur missions are the same missions, just with glowing grineer. Apart from being marked on the map and stealing loot liches don't feel like a part of the setting.

Adding things such as unique dialogue for these missions would do a lot to place liches in the Origin system. Having a short transmission when zooming a planet is not enough, but when we learn that we do this mobile defense to weaken the lich's forces and free their slaves it brings life to the game.

 

Edited by Genitive
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