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[DE]Rebecca

Dev Workshop - Kuva Lich Changes Coming Soon™ PART 2

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6 minutes ago, (XB1)DemVocalSkillz said:

I liked seeing the Lich kill me and players when the mod placement was wrong. I recorded a few and I still lol.... oh was I the only one!?!?!?

Hopefully they keep these animations, but only when you're genuinely defeated instead of just a diceroll. 

IDEA: If they put you into a bleedout state, they'll come up to you and pick you up and finish you off. 

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In my opinion, the biggest issue with Liches is that making progress towards them means you aren't making progress towards anything else.

I'm completely fine with the grind length for murmurs, but what I wish is that clearing lich missions actually gave you some sort of reward, similar to perhaps an endless rotation.

As an example, clearing a Lich Mission would pull from a table that has things like 400 Endo, 35,000 credits, 1,000 Kuva, rare chances for Requiem Relics/Forma, etc. (these are just examples obviously), making it so that doing your lich missions means you're still progressing towards your other things slowly, instead of them essentially being put on hold. It would make the liches feel a lot less isolated as well.

And of course, the new changes coming soon sound great.

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Question 

1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Converted Liches will stay longer, do more damage, and actually use their abilities! 

Question is there going to be something that prevents lichs showing up in rad hazzord sortie ? A toxic lich with hallow ground and mesa doesnt sound fun 

Edited by DRClayko

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I don't do Liches until the Murmur Grind is smaller. Maybe make them spawn in regular missions. 

I don't want to play 2 to 3 hours of missions just to get some clues.

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1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

The Kuva Larvling Who Lived

Starting from the very beginning of Kuva Lich conception brings us to Kuva Larvlings. Kuva Larvlings will now play a key role in determining your future relationship with your Kuva Lich.

  • A downed Kuva Larvling will now display an icon of the Kuva weapon that its birthed Kuva Lich will possess!
    • This allows players to decide upfront if they want to pursue that weapon by finishing the downed Kuva Larvling, or to ignore and attempt another Lich.

Valence Transfer Infusion

  • First introduced in 26.0.6, Valence Transfer was designed to address owning duplicate Kuva weapons with different unique innate damage bonuses. Giving you the ability to replace a Kuva weapon’s innate damage bonus (plus investments like Forma, Focus Lens etc) with one from another Kuva weapon was a good start, but we can push this even further!

    Valence Transfer now also boosts your Kuva weapons innate damage bonus. Examples:
  • Your Kuva Kohm with 25% damage can be infused into your 40% weapon, to make it 44%
  • Your Kuva Kohm with 40% damage can be infused into your 25% weapon, to make it 44%
  • Your Kuva Kohm with 25% damage can be infused into your 44% weapon, to make it 48.4%

Your Kuva weapon duplicates now offer a gradual progression towards a “perfect” Kuva weapon, which would reflect a 60% damage value, if you choose to pursue this path.

Other Changes you can expect:

  • 2 more Weapons entering the Kuva Fold!

In order:

  • The Kuva Larvling Who Lived - Excellent change. I still would like to see them wielding that weapon as a Larvling, but this is a perfect way to mitigate the RNG on which weapon the lich has!
  • Valence Transfer Infusion - I'm very happy you're giving us a way to grind that % to max. I was kind of hoping it would be tied to forma'ing the weapon, though, so there was more purpose to putting 5 forma into a Kuva Weapon than just Mastery. But this is still great! (And, maybe, the forma could still add % to the weapon past the 60%? Like, every forma pumped increases the max elemental bonus by 2% or 3%?)
  • 2 More Weapons - Grakata? Grakata Grakata? Also, have you thought about a Kuva Clem lich? Truly, the only converted grineer lich I want to come to my aid! Clem. Grakata, Clem!
35 minutes ago, Ploobie said:

A lot of us would appreciate having Liches and their Thralls show up in relic and kuva missions. The last devstream showed that one of the biggest gripes that players have with the game is the repetition and grind. Letting us make progress with our Liches while also cracking relics and farming kuva would really help make the game feel less grindy.

And this is a really awesome suggestion. At least, let the Thralls spawn (I could see not having liches spawn in those missions), so people can farm the murmurs while doing ANYTHING else. Though I could see it being problematic if high level enemies spawn in easy Void Fissures, especially for those people who accidentally made a lich and aren't far enough along to really kill it.

But if that's an issue, at least Requiem Void Fissures and Kuva Flood missions could have this turned on! They're already high level missions!

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Very nice changes. I'm glad you guys finally implementing what the Liches game mode was supposed to have. Very nice!

So left now was murmurs gathering was a drag... but I guess that won't be changing since all the nice advantages are coming soon now.

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How will the Valence Transfer Infusion affect the element bonus strength if you're infusing with a different element? I.e. if i combine a 25% heat Kohm with my 40% toxin kohm, will i get a 44% or 40% heat kohm?

Also, have you considered combining the lich feature with kuva siphon missions? I.e. having larvas only spawn in such missions and making these the actual nodes on which the lich has influence.

Edited by Zaeronine

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1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Other Changes you can expect:

 

  • Converted Liches will stay longer, do more damage, and actually use their abilities! 

Can we get an item that lets us call one of our lichs to our aid? I mean they like us if we convert them and want to help us right? Let us call upon them then.

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Iam not really happy, I was thinking they adding the Token System.

Iam only getting double/tripple Weapons with way worst stats.

Its just boring to grind the Lich again for a weapon you already have 1 or 2 times.

Killed 19 Liches and 6 converted because they are doubles and I even got double weapons still.

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So the Grineer lich project seems to be this:

Step 1: Make larva

Step 2: Make a warframe "kill" it in any way (guns, powers, pets. Who really cares?)

Step 3: Hope that the Tenno wants to create a lich (Tenno likes guns, perhaps a suitable bait?)

Step 4: Create slightly more powerful soldier

Step 5: Use him/her to steal back a fraction of the resources the Tenno steal from us.

Step 6: Profit????

I can see why they want the other queen back 🙂

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Thanks for posting this. I was just looking for a place for feedback as a new player. This probably isn’t the spot to do it, but it saves a thread. This whole system should be introduced as a quest. I made my lunch not knowing what it was or what I was doing as I was in the middle of killing everything. Confused as to why I couldn’t kill a squirming enemy floating I followed a prompt that said kill and now I’m screwed out of Venus at rank 7. I’d gladly sacrifice all the stolen crap if it means getting rid of something poorly introduced as I can’t do anything about lvl 80 mobs let alone 50. E: Glorious autocorrect replaces lich with lunch. Keeping it. 

Edited by KArchangel

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1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

A downed Kuva Larvling will now display an icon of the Kuva weapon that its birthed Kuva Lich will possess!

 

1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Your Kuva weapon duplicates now offer a gradual progression towards a “perfect” Kuva weapon, which would reflect a 60% damage value, if you choose to pursue this path.

I think those two changes will make the experience much more enjoyable.

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1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Upon receiving a Requiem fail, your Kuva Lich will laugh at you and leave, leaving your back and dignity intact!

I didn't really like the failure loop, however, I LOVED those animations.

Are they still there when he grabs you to kill you? Like if you're just fighting him normally and you're low on health?

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1 hour ago, Abraxas said:

C'mon, guys. Please, do something about grinding murmurs. It gets old after managing to do the first Lich...

Also, the forma sink and forced repetition to level the weapon to the max is a bit too much.

 

Sorry for the negativity. I was just hoping that these two aspects wouldn't get ignored...

massively disappointed in these changes.

 

i'll just keep ignoring it then. i just about managed to do the first one thanks to tagging along with some friends but honestly i doublt i'll do another until i'm really hating my life

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1 hour ago, Abraxas said:

C'mon, guys. Please, do something about grinding murmurs. It gets old after managing to do the first Lich...

Also, the forma sink and forced repetition to level the weapon to the max is a bit too much.

 

Sorry for the negativity. I was just hoping that these two aspects wouldn't get ignored...

Honestly, if we got some bonus murmur for clearing a node or a planet, this grind would be so much more tolerable. Or even finishing non-lich missions on their controlled planets. 

 

They steal our stuff when we're on their planets, it makes sense to get some murmurs as a result as well. 

Edited by Nviaa

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1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

You can expect the Chance of a Lich having an Ephemera to double. 

If I remember correctly Ephemeras were intented to be rewards for special achievements.
Rolling a digital dice often enough doesn't feel like an achievement to me at all.
How about instead we employ another token-based reward system where you get a token for a lich you converted or killed.
Then one could trade X tokens for an Ephemera of the players choice.
No RNG involved and guaranteed steady progression towards a goal.

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34 minutes ago, Prof_Blocks_007 said:

The damage buff is for Converted (allied) Liches

Ah I see, thanks.  I read the topic while on my faulty old phone,  and am now browsing on my PC.

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1 hour ago, JaycemeSwain said:

This feels like it'll be abused heavily, like people just killing larvlings for easy kuva(esp since people generally do captures to get the larvling). Would make more sense if you got the kuva for accepting the weapon then finishing the mission.

Running Larvlings is a pretty slow affair even when running Capture missions, so it's hardly an efficient method to farm up kuva. At most, it makes grinding out low amounts of kuva possible for low-level players, but that's not a big deal and is hardly 'abuse.'

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finally no forced content

took months but still

congratz

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2 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Expect this next week on PC… and maybe even PS4 + XB1 (with Switch soon)! 

So PS4 (and other consoles) isn't getting any updates following the week of Railjack release until next week at the very earliest, probably 2+ weeks out.

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I felt I needed to add more detail than twitter allowed me for my questions. Apologies to Rebecca for the deja vu.
 

Background: I have all the weapons, all of them maxed besides ogris (because I'm overly good at blowing myself up, even with Cautious Shot). I only have two ephemeras, and have valence transferred two or three weapons. I am on lich #32. I also mostly solo them now, as my clannies have a little pop-up shop in my converted liches and their weapons (and their excel sheet), and don't enjoy it as much as I apparently do. 

1. What about detecting ephemeras? Will there be an indicator to the larvling having an ephemera, or am I still killing it regardless of the weapon it's indicated of having? I'm already 32 liches in, so I expect to rack up another 30 before I have them, but it would be a much improved and requiem saving option to have the ephemera visibly on the larvling to indicate "yes, I shall make your fashionframe vengeful."

2. Valence transfer bonus: will it be retroactive? This isn't me looking for 60%/ gold mod quality on the ones I've already transferred, this is more of a query as to whether or not previous transfers will be caught in the update.

Bonus #3 and probable unpopular sentiments.  I don't mind, in the end, dropping 65 forma on the weapons. I would have preferred half that, as my plat would have as well, but I accepted that. I also accept that requiems need replacing via cracking their relics, but... an amber star? Why not another requiem, or a forma BP (to help with the 5 forma mastery), or 2x riven slivers? The star feels awkward, as there are no ayatan sculpture rewards in the lich system.

I also don't mind the back breaker animation. For the number of liches and thralls I've stabbed where the sun doesn't shine with my parazon, I kinda have it coming. 

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1 hour ago, Arkennstar said:

I think these are all very good steps in the right direction.

Although despite the fact that this might be an unpopular opinion, I rather enjoyed the fact that the lich could kick your ass if you got the sequence or mod wrong. All that needed to be done was remove the death from it. Please leave the "back break and toss aside" move. As was rightly stated in the devstream that announced the lich system, we tenno could use some ass kicking once in a while. We're too powerful and undefeated for our own good. Just dying to it was just a step too far and needs to be removed.

My thoughts exactly, the "back-breaking" and the subsequent defeat at a Lich's hands was never the problem in my opinion. My only problem was that it would result in essentially a one-shot death, which shouldn't exist in the game. As far as I'm concerned we should keep the animations, but let the Liches instead use them as a counter-attack to defend themselves. It would also create the perfect window for the Lich to escape.

Other than that these changes all look fantastic. Someone mentioned the murmurs are too grindy, but in my opinion that won't matter once these changes makes that grind worth doing. I can finally min-max my kuva weapons!

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Generally positive changes, now we just need better murmur farm rates and less of a disconnect from the rest of the game.

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