Should there be a "auction house" in warframe.

[JackHargreav]

2 hours ago, Rawbeard said:

it costs money.

What? How? 

[844448]

Let's say DE do implement the auction house, then you want to sell something for 50 platinum and surprise, surprise, someone put it earlier than you for 45 platinum, so what will you do? Keep the price and risk not getting platinum or lower your price to have a better chance to net a buyer?

This will keep going where people will put it lower and lower where things have nearly zero price in platinum. Good thing, someone will hoard those then sell them. I would love it when you can buy prime sets for 1 platinum and sell them for 40 per set when it's vaulted using the auction house because you have no choice to discuss on the price.

[PidgeTheWitch]

3 hours ago, --Brandt-- said:

Nope there shouldn't be. Posting stuff, logging out for a week and coming back to plat would be horrible.

That's how it was in WoW. I would post stuff for sale, ignore the game for 3 weeks and have enough gold to get another month of play time. That's not playing the game, it's just getting rewarded for not playing.

But isn't standing in a hub with your hand up for hours also not playing.... I mean. And the market place is kinda similar to what i proposed anyway so.

 

[PidgeTheWitch]

3 hours ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

I always took inspiration in World of Warcraft's Auction house when thinking of an AH to implement in Warframe, its just so simple and well organized.

I think I get where people are coming from with #*!%ed economies I feel like a similar thing to bdo might work with a max and min but even that's #*!%ed so I dunno. 

 

I would prefer an auction house system too. 😊

[PidgeTheWitch]

2 hours ago, Yamazuki said:

Not all "auction houses" in games function while offline or even afk, just because it does for WoW, doesn't mean it does for every game. Some games only show listings but you can't actually get the item if the person isn't online, or there's a heavy tax on automated trades if the person is offline or afk. Even just an in-game variant of Warfame.Market would essentially be one that doesn't work for offline players and would still require direct trading.

It's also not as if DE actually cares about the value of traded items either. Nightwave completely devalued mods from Lua Halls, you could get 30+ plat for one of the mods, despite it being the easiest of them to get, but after that first Lua Hall challenge it immediately dropped to 10 plat or lower. Veiled Rivens also lost a lot of their value due to alerts that rewarded them, and it takes a while for their price to go up, assuming an alert doesn't reward the same one again. Undesirable rivens are also very low in price as it is too.

See something like a built in warframe market with a little more streamlined proccessing I get that.

[PidgeTheWitch]

1 hour ago, SordidDreams said:

Hell yes, absolutely, 100%.

All the usual objections to it have been debunked time and again, the main one being that more efficient trading would cause more people to trade and prices to crash as a result. That's why artificial restrictions need to be implemented to prevent that, so that making trading easier won't result in an increase volume of trades. Call me crazy, I don't think making trading an inconvenient hassle is a good way to regulate an economy.

Right. When I started I ran into the issue a lot of people do looking for scanables and getting thiefs wit to help. So I go to the market place and 8/10 folks just tried to get me to pay a S#&$ ton more plat then it was worth. I feel like have a max and min cost combined with chat based acceptance of trades would be better. 

 

You'd prevent economy crashes and still let hagaling be a thing. Tbf not an economist or a video game developer but I've seen similar games use it to great effect and not have the wow issues of cost imbalance.😊

 

[SordidDreams]

1 hour ago, 844448 said:

Let's say DE do implement the auction house, then you want to sell something for 50 platinum and surprise, surprise, someone put it earlier than you for 45 platinum, so what will you do? Keep the price and risk not getting platinum or lower your price to have a better chance to net a buyer?

This will keep going where people will put it lower and lower where things have nearly zero price in platinum. Good thing, someone will hoard those then sell them. I would love it when you can buy prime sets for 1 platinum and sell them for 40 per set when it's vaulted using the auction house because you have no choice to discuss on the price.

If that's what would happen, warframe.market would've already caused it to happen.

Also, who says you would have no choice to discuss the price? A "Message Seller" button would be trivial to implement. If you want to make a solid case against the idea of an AH, argue against the best possible implementation of it, not against the worst possible with obvious and easily fixed shortcomings.

Edited January 31, 2020 by SordidDreams

[Kaotyke]

1 hour ago, JackHargreav said:

What? How? 

Auction Houses costs money in 2 senses:

1) DE has to keep extra data on their servers

2) Lower plat purchases.

The 1st point is self explanatory, but the 2nd works in the manner that: if there is a HUGE number of a thing, prices will inevitably lower. Like a CS:GO case that costs 3 USD on the very first minute then goes down to Cents in the next day.

We have thousands of people playing at all times, but how many do you see in Trade Chat once you apply the filters? You see the same people all the time. So... 2 dozen people?

Imagine if those thousands could auction their items. I could search for an Ivara Prime set, is it going for how much now? 200p? In the few dozen people in WFMarket as the lowest? The prices would plummet as the demand stays high, but the supply is even higher.

It means you would need less plat to get the item you want. And from a bussiness perspective, this is bad. Because people will be less inclined to buy plat, specifically: the higher bundles as the necessity to do so lowers, so less money to DE's coffers.

You could say that you can make plat and never spend a dime in this game. true. But someone out there had to buy that plat. And when the quantity passing around lowers, so does the purchases for it.

That's how.

[SordidDreams]

6 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

if there is a HUGE number of a thing, prices will inevitably lower

That's why you implement restrictions, so that while more people might be inclined to sell items due to the AH being easier to use than trade chat, they simply won't be able to. Yes, supply is curently limited by trading being a giant PITA, so if the process itself is made easier, supply will have to be limited by something else. Like, say, daily trade limits that already exist in the game. They'll likely need to be tightened up, but the idea of putting artificial limits on how much you can trade is well established already.

[Kaotyke]

1 minute ago, SordidDreams said:

That's why you implement restrictions, so that while more people might be inclined to sell items due to the AH being easier to use than trade chat, they simply won't be able to. Yes, supply is curently limited by trading being a giant PITA, so if the process itself is made easier, supply will have to be limited by something else. Like, say, daily trade limits that already exist in the game. They'll likely need to be tightened up, but the idea of putting artificial limits on how much you can trade is well established already.

And you just screwed me over. I was writting a damn essay here explaining what you said 84 above, when your pop up appeared on the left and I tried to close it down.

But let me do a recap, my goodness its 00:30.

WfMarket doesnt have a lot of impact for various factors:

1) It still requires player interactions for the trade to even happen.

2) The buyer has to get the trader before another buyer does.

3) Both buyer and Seller have to be in-game at the same time.

4) Buyer and Seller have to register in the WFmarket to put their bid.

5) WFMarket is a 3rd party site, and relatively obscure. I say there is not even 100 people Selling Ivara Prime Set, imagien if there were thousands?

Auction Houses in game would removed everything above. It doesnt matter if you are in-game, in-mission, has abandoned the game, do anything that removes getting into the game and maybe thinking "Since I'm here, i will play a bit".

Also, the part you quoted from my post, I put the answer to it bellow it.

[(PSN)too_damn_icee]

Yeah...Auction house would make trading better but I don't think it'll happen because 1. They will lose $$$ because you'll save your trades 2. They'll have to rework the trading system (Aka the amount of trades you get from your MR) and 3. (Relates to number 1) You'll make a massive amount of plat just by posting your stuff and coming back to thousands of plat and they'll lose $$$. It's a good idea to have one but I understand why they not making it happen.

[SordidDreams]

3 hours ago, Kaotyke said:

1) It still requires player interactions for the trade to even happen.

3) Both buyer and Seller have to be in-game at the same time.

That's just the same point twice, and you could have that requirement in an AH if you really wanted to (though IMO it would defeat the point, the personal interaction is exactly the hassle an AH should remove, but an in-game equivalent of warframe.market would be better than nothing, I guess).

3 hours ago, Kaotyke said:

2) The buyer has to get the trader before another buyer does.

That's obviously the case in an AH as well.

3 hours ago, Kaotyke said:

4) Buyer and Seller have to register in the WFmarket to put their bid.

Yes, which is why people are not content with warframe.market and want an in-game auction house. Warframe.market removes a lot of the trading hassle from WF, but in doing so it has to introduce its own, smaller amount of hassle because it's not integrated. Getting rid of even that hassle is the whole point of proposing an AH. The whole idea is to make the trading process as quick and easy as possible so that we can minimize the time spent trading and instead get on with, y'know, playing the game.

3 hours ago, Kaotyke said:

5) WFMarket is a 3rd party site, and relatively obscure. I say there is not even 100 people Selling Ivara Prime Set, imagien if there were thousands?

That's... why you implement restrictions on how much people are allowed to trade. Like, that was the whole point of the post you quoted and replied to.

Me: "In a well-designed auction house, people wouldn't be allowed to flood the market and crash the prices."

You, quoting the above: "But in an auction house people would flood the market and crash the prices!"

Me:

Edited January 31, 2020 by SordidDreams

[0_The_F00l]

I support all requests for an Auction house 

[JackHargreav]

5 hours ago, Kaotyke said:

Auction Houses costs money in 2 senses:

1) DE has to keep extra data on their servers

2) Lower plat purchases.

The 1st point is self explanatory, but the 2nd works in the manner that: if there is a HUGE number of a thing, prices will inevitably lower. Like a CS:GO case that costs 3 USD on the very first minute then goes down to Cents in the next day.

We have thousands of people playing at all times, but how many do you see in Trade Chat once you apply the filters? You see the same people all the time. So... 2 dozen people?

Imagine if those thousands could auction their items. I could search for an Ivara Prime set, is it going for how much now? 200p? In the few dozen people in WFMarket as the lowest? The prices would plummet as the demand stays high, but the supply is even higher.

It means you would need less plat to get the item you want. And from a bussiness perspective, this is bad. Because people will be less inclined to buy plat, specifically: the higher bundles as the necessity to do so lowers, so less money to DE's coffers.

You could say that you can make plat and never spend a dime in this game. true. But someone out there had to buy that plat. And when the quantity passing around lowers, so does the purchases for it.

That's how.

Wow. Thanks for the explanation!

[Kaotyke]

6 hours ago, SordidDreams said:

That's just the same point twice, and you could have that requirement in an AH if you really wanted to (though IMO it would defeat the point, the personal interaction is exactly the hassle an AH should remove, but an in-game equivalent of warframe.market would be better than nothing, I guess).

That's obviously the case in an AH as well.

Yes, which is why people are not content with warframe.market and want an in-game auction house. Warframe.market removes a lot of the trading hassle from WF, but in doing so it has to introduce its own, smaller amount of hassle because it's not integrated. Getting rid of even that hassle is the whole point of proposing an AH. The whole idea is to make the trading process as quick and easy as possible so that we can minimize the time spent trading and instead get on with, y'know, playing the game.

That's... why you implement restrictions on how much people are allowed to trade. Like, that was the whole point of the post you quoted and replied to.

Me: "In a well-designed auction house, people wouldn't be allowed to flood the market and crash the prices."

You, quoting the above: "But in an auction house people would flood the market and crash the prices!"

Me:

Oh right, what about this part, Jackie?

7 hours ago, Kaotyke said:

Auction Houses in game would removed everything above. It doesnt matter if you are in-game, in-mission, has abandoned the game, do anything that removes getting into the game and maybe thinking "Since I'm here, i will play a bit".

Oh and what about this part I asked you to adress, Jackie?

7 hours ago, Kaotyke said:

We have thousands of people playing at all times, but how many do you see in Trade Chat once you apply the filters? You see the same people all the time. So... 2 dozen people?

Imagine if those thousands could auction their items. I could search for an Ivara Prime set, is it going for how much now? 200p? In the few dozen people in WFMarket as the lowest? The prices would plummet as the demand stays high, but the supply is even higher.

It means you would need less plat to get the item you want. And from a bussiness perspective, this is bad. Because people will be less inclined to buy plat, specifically: the higher bundles as the necessity to do so lowers, so less money to DE's coffers.

You could say that you can make plat and never spend a dime in this game. true. But someone out there had to buy that plat. And when the quantity passing around lowers, so does the purchases for it.

I didnt say the prices will crash the market, did I?

I MENTIONED the lowering of plat trades because it WILL happen. But the point is that AH means less money to DE.

Unless you want to limit trading even more. Which seems to be the case.

Edited January 31, 2020 by Kaotyke

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

13 hours ago, Fire2box said:

I've never seen DE/Steve say no about it. 

I've never seen China, Mexico and Canada. Does that make them less real? 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

9 hours ago, PidgeTheWitch said:

But isn't standing in a hub with your hand up for hours also not playing.... I mean. And the market place is kinda similar to what i proposed anyway so.

 

Rule #1. Never trade in Maroo's. 

Just get on chat, type WTS or WTB, the item and your price. Then one of you invites the other to your dojo. 

 

[0_The_F00l]

1 hour ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Rule #1. Never trade in Maroo's. 

Just get on chat, type WTS or WTB, the item and your price. Then one of you invites the other to your dojo. 

 

You forgot the part about waiting and hoping you get a hit. 

[(PSN)de_sch0sch]

This trade system reminds me of how I had to set up a shop with my Ragnarok Online character about 20 years ago. Trading like this today is a real PITA.

Edited January 31, 2020 by (PS4)de_sch0sch

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

12 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

You forgot the part about waiting and hoping you get a hit. 

Nope, because that usually only happens when you're trying to buy or sell an item for the wrong price. 

You trying to sell your Braton for 600p? Yeah we both know that you're probably going to be there for a long time. You offer it up as prime junk for appropriate prices because that's what all anyone with a brain will use it for? Yeah you can probably find a fast sale. 

Unrealistic expectations lead to disappointment, Tenno. 

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Rule #1. Never trade in Maroo's. 

Just get on chat, type WTS or WTB, the item and your price. Then one of you invites the other to your dojo. 

 

What do you mean? I sit there and  abuse new players a the time.

Er I mean sit and make deals with players

[(PSN)Firebrandd]

13 hours ago, Vesiga said:

I think they just don't wanna deal with the fake plat charge back people abusing the market that they already do. 
or spend the time to make it not buggy

Finally an argument against an in-game AH that honestly makes more sense than all the wf traders whining "An auction house will stop *MY* source of plat, so I am going to fight hard to stop *YOU* from having a source of plat!"

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Firebrandd said:

Finally an argument against an in-game AH that honestly makes more sense than all the wf traders whining "An auction house will stop *MY* source of plat, so I am going to fight hard to stop *YOU* from having a source of plat!"

It's alot of other sound reasons as well but akot of player choose to neglect such 

[(PSN)LoneWolf_001]

15 hours ago, --Brandt-- said:

Nope there shouldn't be. Posting stuff, logging out for a week and coming back to plat would be horrible.

That's how it was in WoW. I would post stuff for sale, ignore the game for 3 weeks and have enough gold to get another month of play time. That's not playing the game, it's just getting rewarded for not playing.

If the only reason you're logging into Warframe is to sell items in chat (vs selling them in an AH and just checking in once a week) that's kind of sad. I like trading with players in person but the conveniance of an Auction House would be a boon to any grown-up human being with a job. If DE wants to promote face to face over an Auction House system, why not have a platinum tax on AH sold items vs just credits for face to face?

I log into the game to "play" it, not go back to work trying to make virtual currency. It's sad you can spend more time trying to sell an item than it takes to get the item as is.

Pro-Auction House!

[0_The_F00l]

45 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Nope, because that usually only happens when you're trying to buy or sell an item for the wrong price. 

You trying to sell your Braton for 600p? Yeah we both know that you're probably going to be there for a long time. You offer it up as prime junk for appropriate prices because that's what all anyone with a brain will use it for? Yeah you can probably find a fast sale. 

Unrealistic expectations lead to disappointment, Tenno. 

It also depends on time and region, and since its a free market with no means to identify the current going price you may be there changing the prices until it is at a proper value for quite some time. this will be elevated by an auction house where value of the same item can be observed much faster.